E-bay GiantTech [Archive] - WeldingWeb™ - Welding forum for pros and enthusiasts

Nickiboy

03-26-2007, 09:16 PM

1990notch

03-27-2007, 09:24 PM

The seller is also a member on some welding boards, or at least on the hobart board. He goes by grappletractor. The guy gives good support on his products from what I've heard.

Giant Guy

04-11-2007, 03:13 PM

Has anyone heard of GiantTech welders and plasma cutters. I can only find them on ebay but cant find any reviews or opinions on these machines ...... The price certaintly is good and I want to buy one but not without hearing from others that have used them.

Hi there, GiantTechGuy aka Hobart board Grappletractor, I am here for any questions you might have.
GiantTech Cat416D, Cat518D , Cut40D , Cut50d,Cut80, Tig200P, Argon regs, Replacement Chinese Cut40 torches and consumables etc. :waving:

Nickiboy

04-13-2007, 05:59 PM

1990notch

04-14-2007, 02:58 AM

I'm pretty sure that these are made by several different companies of variable quality. If you look at the small build details of different brands of the same model, there are definite differences between them. I doubt they would change the tooling that much for each brand if they were all made in the same factory.

Someone told me, and I'm not sure if he was correct, that the Chinese government is the originator of these welder designs and will allow many Chinese companies build from the designs.

I'd say it's either that or original designs are in short supply over there, so they copy each other.

madjidt

04-24-2007, 06:05 PM

Doing some modifacations to a Mitec 160-S (HF TIG only) to allow lift start tig, stick, and use a pedal. Should have bought the 160-A, but was not aware of the difference, and I already bought it. Interesting design, there are no exotic or unusual parts in there. (however, I think the design is rather exotic given the result achieved with such common parts) It appears that they gang up small power parts which you would find in something like a PC power supply. The power semiconductors are $2 each (2SK2698 MOSFET and FMX-32s diodes) No microprocessors, and 2 IC's, one a switching power supply chip (surprise!), and another 8 pin chip. No big puck IGBT's. The most expensive thing in there is the solenoid valve for the argon. Most of the logic is discrete transistors, which would be resistant to EMI related damage.

Does put 160A into a dead short with no protest, was working the pedal circuit with the output terminals shorted.

Did find that one of the output conections was not tight, but found this out before operating it. From dealing with these things, I have seen crappy assembly, and shipping damage, but the circuit boards look pretty decent in this one. I am at an APO address, so they beat the crap out of our mail.

The big old Tektronix oscilloscopes of the late 50's/early 60's were a US government sponsored design, but only Tektronics could build ones that worked, and they were beautifully made.

1990notch

05-01-2007, 02:24 AM

madjidt, Did you happen to notice if the semiconductors were from Chinese manufacturers? I hope the reliability of these are better than the computer power supplies they make in China. I've had mised results with those.

Simplicity can be an advantage at times. I think I'd rather not have any microprocessors in a basic welder. Just more to malfunction.

I'm contemplating modding my Riland 200WSE to make the AC output freq adjustable. It's set at 60hz. I'm not even sure yet if it gets the 60hz from an oscilator or the AC line in. Assuming it's the line in, what would you use to generate a reliable oscilator circuit? An opamp oscilator or 555 timer circuit comes to mind, but maybe it would be succeptible to EMI. Any thoughts?

Giant Guy

06-04-2007, 05:03 PM

Hi GiantTechGuy ........ I really like the look of the cut518D ...... What I’m seeing on ebay is this and others like the CT416 made under different names like Longevity brand and others..... I suspect that all of these units are made by one company and simply colored differently for different companies..... I don’t have a problem with this but I have read in some of the ebayers feedback about DOA units ..... I really need to know that if my unit craps out later on that it is a repairable problem and I am curious about whether or not it is the inverter itself that is occasionally failing?
I looking for some reassurance here about buying one of these units
Hi, No they are not all made in the same factory. There are perhaps hundreds of small factories all over China that produce these machines, some more quality minded than others.
Yes I have had a few units fail on customers. The most common cause being attributed to defective contacts in a certain relay . It was an easy fit but of course inconvenient to the customer.
Any DOA units you see complained about on EBay are factory defective unlike many of the sellers claims of UPS damage. They are blaming UPS or other shippers to try and hide the fact that they are not testing these machines prior to shipping, yes I know they shouldn't have to BUT until China becomes more quality conscious I WILL continue my pre shipment tests. I have caught a few defective machines from my tests:rolleyes:
ALL problems I have had so far with these machines are repairable!
Hope this helps and sorry for not replying sooner.
Did you get a machine yet?

phila.renewal

06-04-2007, 11:18 PM

Don't want to trash any ebay sellers by name but a company with a name that sounds like Longevity ;) shipped me a defective DOA unit and I was not at all happy with their customer service.

They don't know squat about welding and I doubt they could test their units if they wanted to.

One guy's experience with them.

Giant Guy

06-18-2007, 06:46 AM

Rick V

06-18-2007, 01:05 PM

Longevity - Did they ever make good on your DOA machine?
I saw some of their machines on Ebay yesterday and was quite impressed. So that question posed by Giant Guy is of interest to me.

Rick V

Giant Guy

06-18-2007, 01:29 PM

I saw some of their machines on Ebay yesterday and was quite impressed. So that question posed by Giant Guy is of interest to me.

Rick V

Check out my machines in Ebay under seller metalworkingtoolsandmore
If you don't see any thing there that interests you and you don't mind waiting a few weeks I can get what ever you want.

phila.renewal

06-18-2007, 06:03 PM

Did they ever make good on your DOA machine?

I'd have to say no. So . . . I sent a copy of the entire email chain between me and those jokers to my credit card company and told them to "claw back" the full amount I paid from the merchant's account, which the credit card company did. And that ends that. They got their DOA fire hazard of a machine back, I got my money back as they said I would in an email exchange, but then I had to force them to, and here we are.

To sum it all up, I gave them chances to make good on their promises but right now I wouldn't buy a glass of water from them in the desert.

Rick V

06-19-2007, 12:48 PM

Haaa-hhhaaaa-hhaaaa Right On - Serves them darn well right!

Franky, I don't understand why many ebay Sellers don't treat their customers with more respect. I mean at the end of the day, on a DOA unit, the Seller will have to come good... so why not act professionally and take it back with an apology and a smile? No, they would rather try and bushsht the customer until the customer is forced to do phila.renewal did. Dumb! Now the seller has gotten a bad reputation - as he well deserves!

Rick V :waving:

VERMALA

06-26-2007, 03:16 AM

I got a Longevity plasma cutter / welder and it has been a pleasent experience for me. I have just started welding and found this forum - everyone is crapping on their units, but I had a very pleasent experience with their customer service and their product. I had a choice of buying their or another Chinese knockoff, but bought their because they are an actual company not just some eBay seller you wont find.

Not only did i get a good deal, but i cannot compain about their customer service and the shipping was very prompt although with DHL.

Happy Customer.

stevenc

06-26-2007, 03:37 AM

I response to Frank,

I got a LONGEVITY Welder with Plasma Cutter and thought their customer service was pleasant and informed. My unit works very well and they have helped me answer any questions I had about the unit.

I agree with Vermala. I received my unit with a few days and received tracking same day of purchase. For the price, Longevity's unit influenced me to give it a shot. I was skeptical about their brand or these types of units and the DOA fact ive been reading about, but they have an exchange policy for 1yr and no returns accepted so that is why Frank had so much trouble returning. So far, i am not dissapointed and happy with my unit

Sincerely,

Steve

MicroZone

06-26-2007, 01:05 PM

Devils advocate - there is a reason there is only a 1 year warranty. The computer manufacturers, the big three, have done this for the last 5 years. They are just now getting back into the 2 and 3 year warranties again. Their low end units - Dell, Gateway and HP only have a 90 day with some up to a year. I can't tell you how many new units I see in a month. :rolleyes:

iWeasel410

06-26-2007, 08:59 PM

vermala and stevenc sound pretty fishy to me, sounds like the seller is trying to promote their own goods. Each of their 3 posts say the same thing.

phila.renewal

06-26-2007, 09:03 PM

vermala and stevenc sound pretty fishy to me, sounds like the seller is trying to promote their own goods. Each of their 3 posts say the same thing.

Your sense of smell seems to be working. There do seem to be some mackerel nearby with those two. :rolleyes:

MicroZone

06-26-2007, 09:23 PM

Weasal and phila - you are correct, the IP for both names is the SAME.

For those keeping track of this thread be aware that VERMALA and stevenc ARE THE SAME PERSON. Two opinions, one person. :laugh:

phila.renewal

06-26-2007, 09:35 PM

Gotta love the internet.

I never have a problem with folks who tell their affiliation when giving their opinion.

Shills on the other hand. :realmad: :realmad: :realmad:

Nice catch Microzone.

yorkiepap

06-27-2007, 12:14 AM

To those inquiries on Giant Tech,
I just purchased a new Giant Tech ARC-200 DC inverter stick welder from Giant Guy(on E-Bay) and received it Mon.. After unpacking it and installing a 220vac plug, I tested this welder with 6 rods each of 6011, 6013, & 7018 on metals from 1/8" to 1/2". This is a sweet compact welder that welds great and has enough power to do some fairly thick metal. I needed a small compact stick welder for my mobile unit for some of the road jobs I have been getting on broken construction equipment. This unit will definitely be so much easier to tote to any location that may be in a more confined area since it only weighs approx. 25lbs. If anyone else is in the market for this type of unit, you will like this one. Thanks Larry(Giant Guy) for the expedient service and your fairness with the "Make an Offer" option........Denny

Giant Guy

06-27-2007, 10:00 AM

Glad you like it. How does it compare to the stick function of your WSME Riland?
Larry
To those inquiries on Giant Tech,
I just purchased a new Giant Tech ARC-200 DC inverter stick welder from Giant Guy(on E-Bay) and received it Mon.. After unpacking it and installing a 220vac plug, I tested this welder with 6 rods each of 6011, 6013, & 7018 on metals from 1/8" to 1/2". This is a sweet compact welder that welds great and has enough power to do some fairly thick metal. I needed a small compact stick welder for my mobile unit for some of the road jobs I have been getting on broken construction equipment. This unit will definitely be so much easier to tote to any location that may be in a more confined area since it only weighs approx. 25lbs. If anyone else is in the market for this type of unit, you will like this one. Thanks Larry(Giant Guy) for the expedient service and your fairness with the "Make an Offer" option........Denny

yorkiepap

06-27-2007, 02:24 PM

Hey Larry,
I use the Riland WSME strictly for TIG on Alum. & SS.. It is also a superb unit that works very well and has done quite a bit since I got it last fall. I must add that this morning I took the ARC-200 to a jobsite to do a repair on a large Ford combo backhoe & highlift that had some split seams on the large bucket cross plate and a broken link pin assem. on the backhoe. When the crew saw me put the welder up on the hood they kinda looked in amazement & chuckled and asked if I got it from a Cracker Jack Box.....I just smiled, hooked the ground cable, inserted a stick, and lit 'em up. After the first 3 rods, they looked at the seam....and walked away shaking their heads. 1 hour for both using 7018 and the welds came out perfectly....very satisfied customer & the welder just paid for itself.....'nuff said.....thanks again Larry.....Denny

Giant Guy

06-27-2007, 09:53 PM

Glad you like the little CrackerBox SURPRISE, hehehehe.Want another ?
Hey I see you have a Riland Mig with spool gun, how do you like it and how would you compare the quality of that spool gun to a Miller?

yorkiepap

06-27-2007, 10:33 PM

Hey Larry,
I showed the ARC-200 to one of my MC riding buddies who has a nice farm and a lot of equipment that needs repaired on occasion. He can weld fairly well and will probably get one from you as he wants to make a motorcycle lift over the winter months.

The Riland spoolgun MIG is a great unit and the spoolgun parts are completely interchangeable with the Miller 3035 as I also have the Miller 3035 & SGA100 for my Challenger172. If you lay them side-by-side, you couldn't tell the difference. So far I have run over 35 2lb. spools of ER70S-6 with the Riland and not a hiccup. It will run 192A at 100% duty cycle and 250A at 60%. It also is a sweet unit for the price and Riland has gotten some fine reviews on that unit. The inverter welders are definitely the way to go anymore with size & weight in relationship to power & duty cycle. Definitely a major improvement......Denny

yellow

06-28-2007, 03:28 AM

yorkie... I'm in the market for an AL tig machine and was wondering what your thoughts are with the TA 185 and the WSME. Both of those were machines are in mind for me. I am trying to justify the costs of the TA over the WSME.

yorkiepap

06-28-2007, 08:18 AM

Hey yellow,
I won't suggest what you should buy, only do some homework on a product by researching sales, reputation, and reviews of people who purchased one or the other. I selected the Riland because it is full function, met all my needs, had excellent reviews, and foremost....HALF the price of anything comparable in power and functions. As is with the recent purchase of the ARC-200 from Giant Guy, I needed a stick unit as small & portable as I could find, yet had adequate power for my needs. Both products have great reviews from buyers and are priced so one may not break your bank account. Don't misunderstand me, I love my Miller welders as they have never failed me, work flawlessly, and I had the good fortune to get them and my plasma unit used at half the price of new. I like to be thrifty so I can have all the necessary equipment by shopping carefully and doing research. Hope that gives you some thought for your selection of any equipment....Good Luck....Denny

yellow

06-28-2007, 12:35 PM

Well I guess what I am trying to say is that, in your honest opinion, being that you own and use it; does it have any shortcomings? Is there anything that you wish it had or could do that you regret not buying another brand over it? Does it weld clean, are the settings easy to set, and is the machine stable enough to get through the day? Does it lack any features? Its rare to hear first hand experience from someone that owns the machine and trust me, I really wanted to buy the WSME about a year ago but I'm just afraid of making a bad decision. I own a CUT40 that works great but I just need to hear some more encouraging words before I finalize my decision. Thanks for your input.

yorkiepap

06-28-2007, 03:23 PM

Hey yellow,
The Riland WSME has not had any shortcomings for me at all. Very versatile, a higher pulse frequency range than most, has also worked flawlessly with all my applications and I am quite satisfied. I do a lot of AL polished diamondplate for the car buffs, and make a dozen different crafts with the AL D/Plate and TIG all those items for appearance. The consumables are very reasonably priced and I maintain a good stock because of the orders I get sometimes for 10-20 pieces. You must keep in mind that to get the best results, PRACTICE on scrap pieces to set up the weld parameters will avoid headaches and problems. Every setup I prepare for, I run a few scrap pieces to be sure I am at optimum. I maintain a logbook with all my settings for each piece I weld and it really saves so much time when I need to get out a quantity of items. Each of my item drawings has a setup list for the welder and settings that produced superb welds. I have TIG welded for 10 hrs for a couple of rush orders and it ran with not a problem....remembering that you are not continuously welding for 10 hrs. I use the welder at least 3 times a week all day long when I am making AL crafts or car items. I have the same logbook system for the Riland M250L spoolgun MIG with parameters listed for types & thicknesses of steel or AL that I MIG weld.

I can only suggest you go to: www.rilandusa.com and read the features of each machine and the specifications to determine if they will meet your needs. Just do some serious homework, lay out the features of each side-by-side, evaluate your investment, and determine which will suit your needs the best. Good Luck...Denny

yellow

06-28-2007, 05:35 PM

Thanks for the background information. Nice projects there. Care to show any of the weld beads?

Giant Guy

06-28-2007, 07:29 PM

In the past 10 months I have sold 3 Jasic wsme200P( same factory as Riland) and I have had NOT one complaint . I have also sold one GianTech WSME200P and zero complaints there too.

yellow

06-29-2007, 01:07 AM

PM'd you

iWeasel410

06-29-2007, 02:03 AM

Giant Guy I pm'd you.

Giant Guy

06-30-2007, 10:28 AM

Some pics I just made this morning...

Giant Guy

06-30-2007, 01:30 PM

Denny
Hi, What amperage did you have it set on while running that 7018?
Larry

Hey Larry,
I use the Riland WSME strictly for TIG on Alum. & SS.. It is also a superb unit that works very well and has done quite a bit since I got it last fall. I must add that this morning I took the ARC-200 to a jobsite to do a repair on a large Ford combo backhoe & highlift that had some split seams on the large bucket cross plate and a broken link pin assem. on the backhoe. When the crew saw me put the welder up on the hood they kinda looked in amazement & chuckled and asked if I got it from a Cracker Jack Box.....I just smiled, hooked the ground cable, inserted a stick, and lit 'em up. After the first 3 rods, they looked at the seam....and walked away shaking their heads. 1 hour for both using 7018 and the welds came out perfectly....very satisfied customer & the welder just paid for itself.....'nuff said.....thanks again Larry.....Denny

yorkiepap

06-30-2007, 09:48 PM

Hey Larry(Giant Guy),
On the large front bucket cross member, I ran 1/8" 7018 at 90A since the thickness of the cross member was 3/16 and I managed to clamp it together so there was only a gap of 1/8". Ran and filled quite nicely. Where the cross member butted to the lift arm, I ground all the cracked welds, cleaned the metal and started at 120A & went to 135A since the lift arm was 1/4" thick which was optimum for that joint and the bead was superb at that setting. That little bugger will smoke some rods I'll tell ya!!!

BTW... My riding buddy came over today....he ran 6 rods, (3)6010 & (3)7018 on some different thicknesses scrap. He was impressed so much, he asked me to order him one this coming week when he gets bonus check. In addition, he brought an assortment of rods with him including some cut rods. He set the welder to 130A, inserted a cut rod, & severed thru a 1/8" piece of stainless like it was butter....quite impressive. Anyway, I'll be getting together with you later this week on the same welder for him....Denny

yellow

07-01-2007, 01:29 AM

Denny, does your 200p have the plasma cutter built in too? I have noticed the new Super 200p's have 50amp plasma cutters built in. This is the model I am going after.

yorkiepap

07-01-2007, 08:57 AM

Hey yellow,
No, my WSME does not have the plasma cutter. Since I have a TD Pakmaster50, I didn't need an additional p/cutter. If you don't have a p/cutter, I would definitely get an ac/dc TIG with the p/cutter, and the 50A would certainly be quite sufficient to cut some serious metal. Then you would really have a very versatile unit for just about anything.

BTW, I wanted to answer your previous post on the welds on the m/box & other AL D/plate items. The pics I posted were the original prototypes I designed and were MIG welded to see if the prototype would be exactly what I wanted for a final configuration. The subsequent items were TIG welded and all those items were sold. The next run of items, I will post some photos of the welds as there is a large craft show on Oct. and I need to get quite a few things done by then...Denny

BinaryBuddha

07-15-2007, 02:38 PM

Greetings Weldingweb,
First off, thanks to those that have posted about small inverter based multi-process welders! =)

I've been looking into getting a TIG/MMA welder for some time now, and have done what I can to learn about the process itself, (Covell's video, Miller's TIG DVD, many forms of PDFs, online how-to's, multi-media, etc) but information about the equipment itself seems to be somewhat fuzzy with marketing/hype/etc, or in the case of small inverter based Chinese units, near complete lack of detailed information. Usually one can only find poorly translated manuals, which while entertaining and funny to read, don't provide very much information about the unit(s), and frequently cover multiple welding models in table form.

It would seem as though this is one of very few places on the internet where there is any information (and even better first-hand experience) about these Chinese inverter machines.

It would seem as though everyday professional tradesmen & traditionalists advise to stick to a major, reputable brand for welders (Miller / ThermalArc / Lincoln) citing that these Chinese manufactured inverter units will quickly fail with little to no repair option.

Then there's those whom have purchased these units, and claim they're remarkable in size/power/etc, and would recommend them. As of this post, even using these units in a production environment!

It would seem as though almost all, if not all, of these units are manufactured in China, then sold drop-ship via eBay sellers (YAOHUAN-INTERNATIONAL (http://stores.ebay.com/YAOHUAN-INTERNATIONAL) for example), or available in medium/large qty import from various places (http://market.tradeholding.com/default.cgi/action/viewcompanies/companyid/196185/) to then be re-sold in the US, usually via eBay wherein sellers register their eBay name as a .com domain mainly to support their eBay listings.

This is all fine and dandy, except it seems to provide a fair amount of ambiguity between the different models/units.

Perhaps some here could confirm or correct me in my conclusions:

It would seem as though there are 2 major lines of units, the
latest model "Super" series:
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/91/c9e61gi7.jpg
Red 160p

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1407/dca91biv3.jpg
Blue200p

Then an older model 160
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/6896/e71eq2.jpg
Older red 160

Then there's the WSME variants:
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7663/1d4410bd8.jpg
WSME200
which also have their 'fewer front control dials' & 160amp variant models

Then there's those that claim their units are superior because they use IGBT transistors instead of MOSFET/HEXFET transistors. However, the IGBT models don't have a multi-process MMA/TIG/Plasma unit.
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8057/12dp3.jpg
IGBT 200A TIG

So my questions are:
Firstly: Am I incorrect in any of the above conclusions?

2: I intend to do small weekend/garage-type projects, usually on thin to medium thickness material, would one of these multi-process units be suitable. (For example TIG welding a tube frame for a sandrail, and plasma cutting the body panels)

3: If yes above, would it be prudent to get a 200amp unit instead of a 160amp? Is more better in this case (Super200p for example)

4: It seems as though there's a fair number of DOA units, but can anyone site a working unit that has failed after a small period of use? I would imagine under 100% duty cycle conditions in a production environment these little inverter machine might fail frequently, but in a light duty hobby environment would it be a good fit?

5: I don't have a plasma cutter: It seems quite logical to combine MMA/TIG/Plasma together into the same unit as their electrical functions are quite similar; however, does the plasma cutter induce a great deal of additional complexity, leading to a better chance of failure?

6: Consumables: It would seem as though most of the Chinese units utilize the same consumables, true? Are any units (Riland,Longevity,Mitech, etc) Tig or Plasma consumables compatible with major US brands (Miller,Lincoln,etc)?
(Gas cups, tungsten holders, tungsten electrodes, cutting tips, etc)

7: Model numbers: Super160, Super160p, Super200, Super200p, WSME160, WSME200
What does the P at the end indicate? (I believe it's Pulse or Plasma) Also, are the units that have more control dials in the front the 'newer models'? Are the additional dials to control 'Pulsing'?

I would like to thank you for your time in reading this, and especially so if you found the time to reply.
:)

yorkiepap

07-15-2007, 11:20 PM

Hey Binary,
I'll attempt to answer some of your questions, give you some of my opinions, and try to supply you with information that may help you deciding your needs. I believe my posts dictate who has experience and used these welders in a production environment. I have been pleased with the units I got and they work well for me, especially considering the features/cost comparison.
Questions:
1.Your conclusions seem accurate.
2. Yes, most of these units would encompass your needs quite well.
3. It is always better to have additional power...."just-in-case". In addition, the higher power units have a better duty cycle percentage.
4. For those who receive a DOA unit, your only recourse is to ship it back and eat the shipping costs. It's a shame, but the sellers don't relish the thought of having to pay all the shipping. I find the best method is to look at all the feedbacks on all the sellers and the units that were sold. This will, at least, give you a heads-up on the reliable units. PayPal does have buyer protection, and they can settle most claims without problems or serious financial loss. For light-duty welding, I don't think you would go wrong with a Riland or Mitech as their ratings are quite high.
5. The multi-function units with plasma cutter would be your best unit. Since the functions incorporated are separate modes & circuitry, they work well and do not have a greater failure rate. These units are designed nicely and with all the features, they are very reasonable in price.
6. The larger package of consumables are very inexpensive and I haven't put a dent in my supply yet. I haven't tried to interchange any consumables with the major name-brand products. All the consumables will interchange with other Chinese units.
7. On the units that are originally set up as a combo w/ plasma cutter, the updated version with the "p" designation is for the added Pulse feature. The original usually has 5 dials, & the updated w/pulse will have 8 or 9 dials. These dials are for the added features of frequency, slope, etc. for pulse control. They are just more control of the wave output especially for AC Alum. welding.

I believe for your application and needs, the WSME200P would serve you well and do all you would expect and have a bit more power for the unexpected. Do your homework with the sellers, feedback, whether tested prior to shipping, return policies, and user ratings and satisfactions. There are some great deals out there if you shop carefully. Good Luck....let us know how you make out....Denny

BinaryBuddha

07-15-2007, 11:59 PM

Excellent information.

Thank you very much Yorkie! =)
I appreciate it immensely.

figgie

07-18-2007, 10:52 AM

Hi gents and ladies if there are any :)

New to the forums and have some questions

Yes yes I nkow miller and lincoln. I have looked and I like to go big or stay home. ;)

With that said I am looking for some information pertaining to the Riland units that are made by Greenbird.

the pulse model (Greenbrid calls it the Tig200p ACDC, Riland calls it thw WMSE200P.

Does it pulse BOTH DC AND AC or is it just for DC?

WIll it do 300hz on AC. :)

Thanks for the replies.

yorkiepap

07-18-2007, 05:23 PM

Hey figgie,
I have the WSME200 without plasma cutter and it has a frequency range of .5 - 300hz and I believe the 200P is the same only having the added feature of plasma cutting. They are exc. units and I am quite satisfied with mine. Good luck in your quest.....Denny

Giant Guy

07-18-2007, 06:48 PM

Super200P delivered for $1374.00 :dizzy: That's the second picture in post 40.

Hi gents and ladies if there are any :)

New to the forums and have some questions

Yes yes I nkow miller and lincoln. I have looked and I like to go big or stay home. ;)

With that said I am looking for some information pertaining to the Riland units that are made by Greenbird.

the pulse model (Greenbrid calls it the Tig200p ACDC, Riland calls it thw WMSE200P.

Does it pulse BOTH DC AND AC or is it just for DC?

WIll it do 300hz on AC. :)

Thanks for the replies.

figgie

07-19-2007, 10:27 AM

Thanks

Perhaps I missed the answer. So it does pulse AC?

I am comparing it to the Miller Dynasty series which does in fact pulse both AC and DC upto 400hz. Yes well aware of the price difference. :)

yorkiepap

07-20-2007, 08:50 PM

Hey figgie,
Yes, the unit will pulse .5-300hz on both AC & DC.......Denny

FusionKing

08-14-2007, 12:34 AM

Giant Guy

08-19-2007, 08:40 PM

Well then Mr Giant guy if that 2nd picture in post #40 is indeed as good of a tig welder as say a Ryland 200 amp pulse with all the same bells and whistles and not missing ANY wave shaping features PLUS it has a plasma cutter also then that is one heck of a good deal. I have looked all over the Ryland site and don't see them offering one made like that one.I believe I'll just have to get one for myself also. I really don't need the plasma but if it is the same welder then how could I go wrong? I have read other posts and seen where you are great with customer service. What if I get one and I just think it sucks?:confused: I doubt I will esp. considering Yorkiepaps praise.
Would it be possible for you to post a BIGGER picture. Maybe a link to one with all the specs posted? Also are you able to rig up a fingertip controller?? I weld mobile 90% of the time and I assume this would be fine on my BobCat as well?? With only 25 amps less and wave shaping ability it seems like a good bang for the buck! Not to mention a fairly good sized plasma cutter as well.
Otherwise what can you sell a 200 amp pulse tig with all the features for??
Detailed Product Description

Built In Gas Solenoid Valve for the argon
Argon Regulator with Bubble Flow Meter
Foot Pedal
Stick Holder& cable
Plasma torch
Tig torch
Ground clamp and cable
Air reg/ water separator
Power Voltage: AC240+-5%, 60Hz
Rated Input Current: 28
Power Capacitance: 5.2 KVA
Rated Output Current: 200A
Range Of Output Current: 20-200A (20-50A)
No-Load Voltage: 62V (220V)
Working Voltage: 32V (100V)
Up-Slope Time (s): 0-1
AC Output Frequency (Hz): 60
Clean Width : 20-90
Slope-Down Time (s): 0-5
Tail-Gas Time (s): 2-10
Remote Control: YES
Arc-Leading: HF Vibration
Efficiency : 85
Rated Duty Cycle : 60
Power Factor: 0.93
Insulation Class B
Protection Class: IP21
Max. Welding Thickness (mm): 12 mm Steel (10 mm Aluminium)
Max. Cutting Thickness (mm): 16mm

Giant Guy

08-19-2007, 08:43 PM

Photo of control panel.

Giant Guy

08-19-2007, 08:46 PM

Control Panel.

Giant Guy

08-19-2007, 08:52 PM

Yes if you want a finger control we can add that.

Giant Guy

08-19-2007, 09:09 PM

"What if I get one and I just think it sucks? I doubt I will esp. considering Yorkiepaps praise."

Run it for a week and if you think it sucks pay the shipping back and I'll refund the machine price ( not original shipping)
PM me if you're interested.:waving:

FusionKing

08-21-2007, 09:00 AM

In those specs the ones that I am most interested in I didn't see the "pulse frequency" but I have done an internet search last week and found the Ryland went up to 300hz and the plasma combo pulse welders only went to 200hz.
But your photo looks like it might say 300? Who makes this unit and do you have one in stock? Do you have a warranty? I know Riland has been in biz for many years and will stand behind products with a decent warranty.
One thing that makes me reluctant is I come from the separate component camp of thinking. I have bought steroes and tvs with multiple functions and ended up with junk once one or the other went out.
On the other hand somebodies site went on about being able to rig a spool gun onto one of these pulse-plasma-stick welders (Parker?) .....is this possible as well? That would be a BBBIIIIIIIGGGGGG plus in my way of thinking!!!!
Sorry for dragging this out on the forum but chances are others may read this as well and be able to make informed decisions as well.

FusionKing

08-21-2007, 09:14 AM

OK I looked again and it was Rilands super 160P that you can hook the spoolgun to. That would be a great plus.

yorkiepap

08-21-2007, 03:30 PM

Hey FusionKing,
In addition to the 160P, Riland's new spoolgun system will work with the WSE/WSME 200P stick/TIG, and the WSME 200P with 50A Plasma Cutter. That would definitely make it quite a versatile unit. I have the spoolgun MIG M250L unit and it works superbly....Denny

FusionKing

08-21-2007, 04:09 PM

Hey Yorkiepap thanks for the reply!!!!!
Info on that stuff is hard to find!!! If you don't mind my asking how did you find out that the new spoolgun would work on the WSE/WSME 200P?
I've been searching all over. Have you got the chance to try it out ever?
These are the type of answer's I've been needing to get in order to buy the right stuff. I am not a big fan of multi-function machines but heck, with mig tig, stick AND plasma all in one unit that would be hard to beat!! Imagine the looks people would give you when you began a job.
I really never use plasma much anymore (been gettin' into saws) and seldom use stick (don't weld much steel) but still enjoy it a bunch when I do get to...I'm a 7018 diehard forever! I really don't even much care for or use the spoolgun (because I get time and material on my jobs:eek: ) and prefer to run tig :cool2: much more anyway.
I value your opinion very much as I am out there welding on my own and hear everyone saying "if I was making a living with my equipment I would use this brand or that" but YOU have already gone in the direction I would prefer to move. That is several ways to accomplish the same basic result. I already have the capability to mig, stick, tig, and plasma both in the shop and mobile but it would be nice to play with the wave shape and save a few buck$ in the process!!:cool: Thanks friend!!

yorkiepap

08-21-2007, 09:39 PM

Hey FusionKing,
I got a note from the seller I got my Riland equip. from. He indicates that Riland sales are quite formidable with every other manufacturer, they are very reliable as per satisfaction/usage ratings indicate, have USA warranty/repair facilities, and are really trying to incorporate the best functions into a unit that will serve most needs for the hobbyist & small operators on a budget. I did a lot of homework before purchasing because of reports, complaints, and the general thought that the Chinese make ALL junk. Not quite true and YES....there is shoddy equip. on the market. Like I said in an earlier post, I love my Millers. I needed to expand my mobile offerings to include all types of welding and needed the units that would serve me well and maintain a decent budget outlay. Both the Rilands have done very well and paid for themselves over several times already. I use the spoolgun so much, I built a winder so I can rewind my empty 2lb. spools. I like the Giant Tech 200A stick unit because of its' portability, size & weight, and power.......like carrying a lunchbox. In addition, I really take care of my equipment, clean, keep covered, and test each before going to a jobsite......saves a lot of headaches. I know many have their reluctances and I can understand. It is a favorable condition to be able to take a unit to your LWS if it needs repair. I just took a chance one day and decided to try to see if the reports were fair and accurate with Riland and I have not been disappointed....same with Giant Tech...took a chance....it paid off. It is just best to investigate all options and simply do some homework. It's your money..... Denny

Giant Guy

08-22-2007, 07:57 PM

In those specs the ones that I am most interested in I didn't see the "pulse frequency" but I have done an internet search last week and found the Ryland went up to 300hz and the plasma combo pulse welders only went to 200hz.
But your photo looks like it might say 300yes 300? Who makes this unit and do you have one in stock?None in stock ( can either add one for the next ocean delivery set to arrive the middle of Oct or can air ship one to you), made at my Chinese factory Do you have a warranty?Yes, same as Riland's I know Riland has been in biz for many years and will stand behind products with a decent warranty.
One thing that makes me reluctant is I come from the separate component camp of thinking. I have bought steroes and tvs with multiple functions and ended up with junk once one or the other went out.Yes that is a danger with these multi units, one part goes south the whole machine is downOn the other hand somebodies site went on about being able to rig a spool gun onto one of these pulse-plasma-stick welders (Parker?) .....is this possible as well? My factory says that is not an option YETThat would be a BBBIIIIIIIGGGGGG plus in my way of thinking!!!!
Sorry for dragging this out on the forum but chances are others may read this as well and be able to make informed decisions as well.
Oh also can supply you with a water cooled tig torch.

Giant Guy

08-22-2007, 07:59 PM

Oh let me add thatI will have available in mid Oct that same mig spoolgun you see on Riland's site.

tmarks11

08-22-2007, 10:16 PM

Oh also can supply you with a water cooled tig torch.

How about a water cooler for that torch? How much does that run? $600 for a pump, fan, and radiator is insane ($120 for all of those pieces so far, just haven't put them together yet).

FusionKing

08-22-2007, 10:23 PM

Sheesh october is like forever!! I presume the price goes way up with the air freight?

fordman

08-23-2007, 12:24 AM

I have been so far happy with the service I have recieved. I ordered my cut40d from gianttech on another board and cannot wait to get it!

Giant Guy

08-23-2007, 07:03 AM

Sheesh october is like forever!! I presume the price goes way up with the air freight?

Same price,I'll eat the air freight cost. It will still be 2 to 2.5 weeks for delivery after payment is cleared, wire transferrs to China can sometimes take a week and then at times the Chinese aren't that fast to ship:rolleyes: .

Giant Guy

08-23-2007, 07:07 AM

How about a water cooler for that torch? How much does that run? $600 for a pump, fan, and radiator is insane ($120 for all of those pieces so far, just haven't put them together yet).

Let me check on that, please give me a day or two.

Storts

08-23-2007, 11:01 AM

Ive been a dist for Riland for close to 3 years now,Larry is aces in my book, Ive been in the welding buisness for 33 years,and the co is 104 years Old,
I sold my commerical building 2 or so years ago,and sold off a lot of antiquated equipment,,My miller 330,was what i learned to tig on,Ran off a 120 amp breaker,Im Putting up a new shop on my property,and been using all riland since almost 3 years,,My 200 amp with P,wse gets used 7 hrs some times 10 hrs a day,New a hickup! And Im not saying that because I sell them,,My electric bill would be out of this world,as NU,where I live,Just gave them selves a nice almost 65% increase,and more coming in Oct.!!

I went on road job,and run every thing off my ranger 8,and had 10 cuts to make on a loading dock for GE!,First job,all the engineers were watching as i used the cut 40!,Thrue 1/2" rusted diamond plate,so dock board could swivel,they laughted,saying there lunch boxes were that size, well,sold 2 for them to use at home!

Sorry for the long responce,but dont stop in as much as i should,Nice to see a chinese welder section,Larry hit it on the head,there all made in a number of different factories,and I make my living with them!And we use them,,ill be using the 100 amp plasma on the table,when the shop is finnally up.(Got to love the zoning,all the BS for a building permit,Never had this trouble 8 years ago when i built he house!) Sorrry for the rant,Jack

Giant Guy

08-23-2007, 09:27 PM

Storts

08-24-2007, 10:34 AM

Jack, You're OK in my book too!;)
Thanks Larry, All we do is try to be honest,and treat people the way we want to be treated,I took on the Line when the welding buisnenss was so slow,and have found it very interistest and love learning some thing new everyday,wheather its ours,or Lincoln,or Blue,,Keeps ya on your toes!!!!!and just like comps. there is always new technology out there!!Jack,,PS,I sleep good at night,bet yo do to,,How ebay can let some of these crooks keep riping people off is beyond me,from the few times i got stung on ebay,they didnt do any thing for me!!! Any one else?????????,Thanks

FusionKing

08-26-2007, 06:22 PM

Let me check on that, please give me a day or two.

:cool2:

Giant Guy

08-26-2007, 10:00 PM

:cool2:
7 liter cooler for 375, operates on 220 volts, plus
shipping actual costs.

Storts

08-26-2007, 10:15 PM

7 liter cooler for 375, operates on 220 volts, plus
shipping actual costs.
Larry,woulnt have a pic by any chance? Thanks a ton,,would it be on your ebay store?ThanksPal,Jack:blob1: :blob4: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :)

Giant Guy

08-28-2007, 11:18 AM

Larry,woulnt have a pic by any chance? Thanks a ton,,would it be on your ebay store?ThanksPal,Jack:blob1: :blob4: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :)

Sorry Jack, not in my store in fact I have never sold one but do have access to them.

Storts

08-28-2007, 01:41 PM

Sorry Jack, not in my store in fact I have never sold one but do have access to them.
Thanks Larry,Not a bad price,and I have a potential guy looking for one,and maybe myself also,Thanks,Jack

Giant Guy

08-28-2007, 04:30 PM

Thanks Larry,Not a bad price,and I have a potential guy looking for one,and maybe myself also,Thanks,Jack
OK Jack, Let me know because I'll be placing an order for other items soon and could include this in that shipment.Even if you or your buddy aren't interested what are your thoughts on how they might sell?

Storts

08-28-2007, 05:10 PM

OK Jack, Let me know because I'll be placing an order for other items soon and could include this in that shipment.Even if you or your buddy aren't interested what are your thoughts on how they might sell?
Larry,was looking back,did you ever come up with a figure for the unit,its probably a 110..although,ive seen some run on 220,and accross the pond,dont they use 220 for a electric toothbrush?????????:D :D :D :D :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :blob2: :blob2:

PS,I think they will sell great!!!especially on the smaller lincolns the 185's i think,they have a torch thats fantastic,real light,and comfortable.BUT!!!!!it gets so HOT!!in no time at all,at least the wse 200,has that big torch,so it take a real long time,cranked up to feel the heat,(But your arm get sore,unless your doing bench work)But i would love a 20,Like i learned on,,the lincoln is a tad smaller than that!!!!!!!!Just my opionion,Jack

Giant Guy

08-29-2007, 09:20 AM

Larry,was looking back,did you ever come up with a figure for the unit,its probably a 110..although,ive seen some run on 220,and accross the pond,dont they use 220 for a electric toothbrush?????????:D :D :D :D :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :blob2: :blob2:

PS,I think they will sell great!!!especially on the smaller lincolns the 185's i think,they have a torch thats fantastic,real light,and comfortable.BUT!!!!!it gets so HOT!!in no time at all,at least the wse 200,has that big torch,so it take a real long time,cranked up to feel the heat,(But your arm get sore,unless your doing bench work)But i would love a 20,Like i learned on,,the lincoln is a tad smaller than that!!!!!!!!Just my opionion,Jack

7 liter cooler for 375, operates on 220 volts, plus
shipping actual costs.

Storts

08-29-2007, 12:09 PM

7 liter cooler for 375, operates on 220 volts, plus
shipping actual costs.
Larry,dont know what there selling for used, every one i saw is 110,whats it draw????and then with all the new lincolns,and milers,they have a 110 outlet, for us it would be no problem,But when the chinese dont even use a green wire for ground,and there manuals(which ive always harped on!Out rite stink!!!!!!) a yellow with a green stripe for ground,and not marked that way in the manual,it would get expensive to mount a 220 plug,and recpt.,on the machine,Like i said for us it would be easy to put the wires together for the cooler to turn on when the machine turns on!!:dizzy: And then a way to shut cooler off when using in stick mode,!Which I think mine has a smother arc than the millers and the Lincoln on my portable rig, And switch conectors.

Dont get me wrong,im playing devils advocate,as to what the general public would look at.!!

Other than that,I think it would be a winner!!!!!!!!!and then the conectors,someone on i think Miller,built on and postested a pic,or hobart,I wish i marked it,But built his own cart,and did a gorgous job!!!!All the little add ons is what gets some people cranked up,And not every cooler would me going to a chinese machine,that Lincoln i mentioned was a nice unit,if it didnt burn your hands off as fast as it did,!!!!Your thoughts??Jack:) :) :)

Giant Guy

08-29-2007, 01:42 PM

Larry,dont know what there selling for used, every one i saw is 110,whats it draw????and then with all the new lincolns,and milers,they have a 110 outlet, for us it would be no problem,But when the chinese dont even use a green wire for ground,and there manuals(which ive always harped on!Out rite stink!!!!!!) a yellow with a green stripe for ground,and not marked that way in the manual,it would get expensive to mount a 220 plug,and recpt.,on the machine,Like i said for us it would be easy to put the wires together for the cooler to turn on when the machine turns on!!:dizzy: And then a way to shut cooler off when using in stick mode,!Which I think mine has a smother arc than the millers and the Lincoln on my portable rig, And switch conectors.

Dont get me wrong,im playing devils advocate,as to what the general public would look at.!!

Other than that,I think it would be a winner!!!!!!!!!and then the conectors,someone on i think Miller,built on and postested a pic,or hobart,I wish i marked it,But built his own cart,and did a gorgous job!!!!All the little add ons is what gets some people cranked up,And not every cooler would me going to a chinese machine,that Lincoln i mentioned was a nice unit,if it didnt burn your hands off as fast as it did,!!!!Your thoughts??Jack:) :) :)

I'll have to get complete specs from my salesman. Get back with ya as soon as he does, which most of the time aint too fast:cry:

Storts

08-29-2007, 02:03 PM

I'll have to get complete specs from my salesman. Get back with ya as soon as he does, which most of the time aint too fast:cry:
Larry,same here:cry: look at some of the powcons, cheap,,even a brand new miller 3 gal,110 free shipping, all st to go ,from b&r,520.00,or very close,will cool a 600 amp tig!!!!!!:gunsfirin :mad: Jack,PS,,Makes it all most even, cause of shipping,and connectors,Maybe a little cheaper,Not good,cause people will go name brand for same!!!!

Giant Guy

08-29-2007, 08:48 PM

Larry,same here:cry: look at some of the powcons, cheap,,even a brand new miller 3 gal,110 free shipping, all st to go ,from b&r,520.00,or very close,will cool a 600 amp tig!!!!!!:gunsfirin :mad: Jack,PS,,Makes it all most even, cause of shipping,and connectors,Maybe a little cheaper,Not good,cause people will go name brand for same!!!!

Ok Jack, I see you are right so I'll forget that idea, hahahha.

Storts

08-30-2007, 02:09 AM

Ok Jack, I see you are right so I'll forget that idea, hahahha.Larry,,one time i dont like being right!!!!!!!!Id keep on them for a 110 model!!!!!!!!!that id arounf 300 would fly off the shelf,and theres nothin to them,Jack

Giant Guy

09-07-2007, 09:31 PM

Plasma/TIG/Stick Combos BRAND NEW SCRATCH & DENTS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, I have up for sale a few Plasma/TIG/Stick Combos BRAND NEW. These units have either some case dents and or case scratches. None of these cosmetic blemishes affect any of the machines performance abilities. Color is either blue or yellow your choice. The machines are an input of 220 volts only with an output of 160 in DC Tig mode, 150 Stick and 40 Plasma. Price is $500 (a savings of over 125 dollars off a NON S&D price) plus 95 shipping and handling. Payment can be made with whatever method you prefer, credit card, check, money order or Paypal ( credit cards will be billed through my PayPal account ).

iWeasel410

09-07-2007, 09:58 PM

PM sent for more info :)

Giant Guy

09-16-2007, 09:10 PM

Storts

09-17-2007, 01:09 PM

Larry,and everyone,,Beware,Lonegevity is back on ebay,with a 160 ac-dc with pilse,and 40 amp plasma,!!!!!!!!!!!!:realmad: :realmad: :realmad: :realmad:

Just thought you guys should all know,,dont want to see anyone getting the hot welding rod,:laugh: :laugh: :nono: ,Jack

Giant Guy

09-19-2007, 06:50 PM

Hey, I got Cut60Ds and foot pedal ready combo machines:blob1:

GiantTechGuy

11-21-2007, 06:02 PM

Spool gun anyone? $280.00 delivered :cool:

GiantTechGuy

11-21-2007, 06:04 PM

Spool gun anyone? $280.00 delivered :cool:

Brand new, parts interchangeable with Miller Spoolmate 3435

yellow

11-21-2007, 06:23 PM

I am in for after the holidays.
Check your pm about another issue.

GiantTechGuy

11-21-2007, 07:31 PM

You must have PMed to my old acct. please PM to GiantTechGuy

I am in for after the holidays.
Check your pm about another issue.

GiantTechGuy

11-21-2007, 08:46 PM

You must have PMed to my old acct. please PM to GiantTechGuy

You see I lost my old account when I dumped my cookies and forgot my email. Tried all the reminder things and to no avail, hahahahaha

down19992000

11-22-2007, 06:04 AM

is that spoolgun compatible with a miller 210?

GiantTechGuy

11-22-2007, 10:32 AM

is that spoolgun compatible with a miller 210?

Yes it is. It's part are interchangeable with the Miller Spoolmate3435

Giant Guy

12-03-2007, 08:28 PM

SPOOL GUN!
I have one now listed on Ebay in auction format that is now at 205 plus 15 s&h. You might be ale to get it for less than my 280 delivered.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESE:IT&ih=013

HURRY auction ends in an hour and a half!

Gadget

12-23-2007, 08:22 PM

I bought the Longevity Super 160P multifunction welder and am very happy with it. The more I use it the more I like it. It is one of those things that you just can't help getting excited about. I will be using this unit to build a couple of recumbent trikes and have every confidence it will more than do the job.
Gadget

ammoniaman

02-24-2008, 01:02 PM

I have purchased the Giant Tech ARC 200.It was only $265.00 plus shipping.
I amazed at it's power at only 14 pounds or so! The O.C. light does come on once in awhile,which is quite annoying when welding;although lately it dosen't seem to be tripping very often. I have to wait for the circuit breaker to reset to weld again.Whoever wrote the instruction manual had better learn English,however as the wording is improper and broken up.I have set it up to TIG weld with an auxillary HF-20-1 high frequency arc stabilizer.This is a MASSIVE HFAS that was made by Miller back in 1991.It is rated at an unbelieveable 1000 amps @ 60% duty cycle! I am very proud of it as it is NEW military surplus.As it is impossible to get DISCRETE HFAS's anymore rated at that current;I will never sell mine! I have setup a relay system so that with a little SPST switch on my 300 amp air-cooled TIG torch, I can turn the HFAS and the welder off when I want to.I have also incorporated a programmable off-delay timer in parallel with the Argon regulator flow solenoid relay so that when I quit TIG welding and switch off the welder and HFAS, the Argon will flow on the weld for the time I have set it for.Later on I will measure the ohms of the potentiometer on the front of the welder that controls the Pulse Width Modulation duty cycle for the "H" bridge MOSFET DC to AC to DC converter.I will then remove it from the welder and place a slide potentiometer on my TIG torch handle and run it back to the welder,whola!Fingertip current control just like very expensive name brand welders!I have butt welded 1/2" stainless steel plates together with this little welder.It has good penetration and can run multiple passes for good weld strength.So,I am happy to say it performs just as well or better than my Thermal Dynamics GTS 190 TIG welder that cost 8 times as much!In some ways the setup is superior,as the HFAS is INDEPENDENT of the welder and much more heavy duty.This means I can use the HFAS with ANY welder.The only disadvantage is the weight and non-portability of the system.I am also designing an ALUMINUM welding IGBT inverter circuit to add to the system.It will put out a 400HZ alternating square wave rated to 600 amps.This is not a simple circuit to build as there are many circuits that must be well designed,e.g.,stable 50% duty cycle PWM 555 timer or op-amp oscillators,dead-time generators for IGBT gate drivers with alternating outputs that have de-saturation and gate over-voltage protection.Also hard-switching and snubber network calculations!What all that means is I will have a VERY valuable circuit that can weld thick Aluminum plate.:laugh:
I also have purchased a Longevity cut50 dual voltage plasma cutter for only $350.00 off ebay! I won it in the last 6 minutes of the bidding by using bid sniper software.Twenty people were bidding on it.I called the company and they said they weren't going to sell them that way anymore as they cost $750.00.So,I lucked out on that one.It cuts rather well,but even a 60 gallon tank compressor cycles on more than I though it would at rated pressure and volume.Again,whoever wrote the instruction manual has very poor English.:laugh:

GiantTechGuy

02-24-2008, 05:35 PM

GiantTechGuy

02-24-2008, 05:40 PM

ammoniaman

02-26-2008, 10:52 AM

I have only used the ARC200 setup with my TIG torch.It appears the O.C. LED only comes on periodically when I'm welding with maximum current. I believe what happens is that if the Tungsten sticks to the metal being welded or contacts it for more than a second or two,the O.C. relay is tripped.As far as the% duty cycle tripping the O.C. relay,I don't remember having exceeded that when the O.C. light came on,as the tripping happened rather quickly into the welding process;not after welding for a minute or so.I have since welded trailer axles and 1/2" stainless steel plate without the O.C. relay tripping.So,I think everything is working properly.Anyone out there interested in a custom built,super-heavy duty ALUMINUM WELDING CONVERTER for your DC welder? I had to do much research and many calculations to design the high power inverter that converts the DC of your welder to 400 cycles per second alternating square wave.This inverter has monster 600 amp IGBT's so you can weld THICK Aluminum plate.Most welders cannot do this and even the ones that can will only weld thin Aluminum plate because Aluminum takes a lot of current to weld as it quickly spreads the heat at the weld throughout the entire piece. As some of the items used to construct the circuit are quite expensive,heavy-duty, and difficult to obtain,the inverter will not be cheap;but it will make you money every week as the ability to weld thicker Aluminum plate is in good demand and will keep you busy.Leave me a message on the forum and I'll contact you if you are needing a converter.Thanks,Marvin.

trscott

03-11-2008, 12:54 AM

New to this forum, but been lurking for awhile. Very interested in this discussion of Chinese welders. Specifically, I have decided I need to get a full-featured 200A TIG Squarewave Inverter welder. I would love to get a Miller Dynasty 200DX, or maybe an HTP Invertig 201 AC/DC, but unless I win the lottery (unlikely since I have never bought a ticket), that's just not in the budget. Rather than settle for a Miller 180 MIG, I am very seriously considering the Chinese TIGs.

I have spent three decades in the electronics industry, and the last three doing extensive business in an entirely different class of products, and can shed a bit of light on a couple aspects of Chinese products.

1) Do not underestimate the quality capability of some Chinese companies. I do business with some that are absolutely the equal of the very best USA manufacturers (again, not welder manufacturers...), but many are still quite inferior. Some of these manufacturers have made strides equal to 50 years of progress in the USA, in 3-5 years! But, you definitely need to know who you're dealing with by track record. In that light, I really appreciate the attitude of a few folks like GiantTechGuy who are willing to stand behind a product. (I am not a customer, yet, just a statement on principle)

2) With regard to the fact that there seem to be many products which are very similar, but clearly a little different, and apparently dozens or even hundreds of small manufacturers producing these products: This is an absolutely standard aspect of Chinese culture. Forgive me a bit of digression, but I would like to explain by an example.

When I first visited China, one of first things I noticed was the artwork, because my wife is an artist, and I've spent a lot of time in small art galleries all over the states. If you visit 100 art galleries in the US, you will see very different styles and subject matter in every one you visit. If you visit 100 small galleries in China you will see the same pictures over and over. Not literally prints, but original paintings, with subtel differences of brush stroke, or color, or very small changes to the composition, but on first examination they may even appear to be prints they are so similar. Then if you go into the national gallery, you will see the same paintings, except with painted with greater skill by the recognized national masters.

After observing this and being surprised by it over and over, my wife and son and I were invited into the small private studio of a woman who explained that she is an art teacher and much of the work she was showing us had been done by her students. Again, I saw these same pictures we had seen everywhere else. I finally asked her to explain why this was so common. It took a couple of asks before she understood what I was asking and then she got knowing look and a big smile and what she said changed my whole outlook on China.

She explained that in China the great masters are highly revered, and any artist of lesser stature would not presume to create entirely original works as this would appear arrogant. It is an expression of their humility to "apprentice" for many years by re-creating the great works of the masters over and over hoping that one day they can become skilled enough to be recognized by society as a new great master, knowing that most never would. When they copy the creative work of another, it is not viewed in their culture as "ripping off" someone else as we might, but as a respectful act of tribute to the one whose work they are seeking to equal. A budding young artist in this country would never think twice about doing whatever comes to mind or expresses their creative "soul." But in China that is viewed almost as an act of hubris. But in fact, it almost never comes up, because almost no one every violates this widespread social convention. They are becoming aware that we in the west view copying and creativity very differently, but intellectual understanding and changes to cultural conventions are two very different things.

Soooooooooooo..... Having had this explained to me by this art teacher, it suddenly dawned on me how this related to the myriad reproductions of similar products all across China. Take the case of these Welders. There will be one, or a small few, "master" manufacturers who contribute the best engineering, the most creative or simple or reliable designs. These are like the national masters whose work hang in the Chinese national galleries. Then there are dozens and even hundreds of small factories who take an example of one of these products apart and study them in minute detail endeavoring to recreate an almost identical product. They may try to use a different switch, or a very slightly different part in some detail that they believe may cut some cost without having any affect on functional quality or reliability. But it is their intention to learn by example how to produce a great welder, just like the aspiring artist is trying to learn to create great art by mimicing the great masters.

Different eh??? Don't get me wrong, I am not defending this cultural norm as equal to our cultural norm, or subjectively as good as, but a certain amount of cultural relativity can help one to understand how a thing is viewed in their eyes. Viewing it from their perspective has helped me understand how to be more successful in my business dealings with other cultures. I still have the greatest admiration for good old USA ingenuity and innovation, but there is no question that the Chinese are becoming a manufacturing force to be reconned with. They will eventually become more creative and innovative, but in the meantime, there are these situations where I have to decide between a $3500 dollar fabulous welder and an $800 dollar very very good welder.......

YMMV

Coming back to Chinese welders, I am trying to determine who is the "master" manufacturer, or perhaps one of the several.

I would really like to find a fully featured TIG welder roughly as follows:

1) 200 AMP AC/DC Squarewave Inverter TIG with fully adjustable pulse mode

2) If it had Plasma and all other things were equal, I would get that even though I have a PMX600, it would be nice to have one portable machine to do both.

3) If it also had the capability to connect a spool gun and operate like a MIG that would also be very useful (but TIG is CC and MIG is CV??? How do they do that?)

4) I would like to have collets and tungsten electrodes in several diameters for different power settings and material thickness.

5) I would like it to have variable AC output frequency (often confused with variable pulse frequency).

6) I would prefer a unit manufactured with IGBTs because I know how much more robust these can be, but a really well built one with MOSFETs can obviously also work.

7) I would like to have both a foot pedal as well as a hand control.

8) A water cooled torch and water cooler system would certainly be nice, but I will settle for air cooled if I must.

9) It would be very desirable to have both "HF" start and "Lift Arc" start

10) I notice in some of the pictures a knob for post flow, but no knob for adjusting the pre-flow time. Both are useful I think.

A lot to ask I suppose, but that's what I would like to find.

A couple other considerations: Everything above notwithstanding, with Chinese products, simpler is often better, all other things being equal. It is a matter of manufacturing maturity which is constantly changing and improving in China. When in doubt, go simple. If you can become confident about a product and its manufacturer, you may comfortably go with the state of the art. The China of today is a couple decades ahead of the China of three years ago (what did he say???). It is just so crazy it can make your head spin. Confused yet? I often am.

There are manufacturers of products in China that understand burn-in and test, and world class quality control. Believe me, I have manufacturers in China who generate MSAs (measurement systems analysis) with each manufacturing lot, do formal FAI (first article inspection of every measurement on three pieces out of any new tool), and adhere to my employer's quality requirement for CPK of 1.77 on thirty random samples from each manufacturing lot of tooled parts. We are a lean six sigma quality manufacturer, and routinely have some parts and subsystems manufactured in China very successfully, but we spend a ton of time investigating those manufacturers first and continually monitoring their performance, just like we have to do with USA and EU vendors which I also work with.

Again, I have no affiliation with any welder manufacturer, here or in China, but I am beginning to probe my contacts to see if I can find out who makes the good stuff. My employer is in an entirely different industry of electro-mechanical and electronic content for a totally different industry. My background is as an old digital electronic engineer (embedded microprocessors, programmable logic, low level firmware), a dozen years experience in marketing and business development, then went back to school a couple years ago to get an MBA, and now working in global materials management in a big cubicle farm.

So GiantTechGuy? How does all of this comport with your experience? PM me if you want to chat offline about any of this. I "need" a TIG welder in the worst way! <grin>

trscott

03-11-2008, 01:20 AM

Oh yeah! One other thing for GiantTechGuy:

Given that service is potentially a problem for these Chinese products, it would SURE be nice if they would make a real service manual and schematics available. Then you could actually get service all over the USA if out of warranty, and electronics hacks like myself would have a good shot at fixing the most common problems ourselves.

Have you every broached this subject with any of your contacts? Seems like a no-brainer for them. They really don't have the same concerns about being copied anyway (see my previous post), and generally don't protect IP like this the way Western companies do, even when it is entirely their own design.

There are a few really excellent repair techs around who can easily fix anything, given a schematic. Probably can fix anything without a schematic, but it is a lot faster when they don't have to manually trace out the circuit first, and time is money.

I think this would go a long way toward improving the concern about service. They could even contract out with a couple USA (and EU) shops to deliver warranty service and save a lot of shipping costs. If a shop just pulls the boards and swaps boards or discrete parts, then swaps in new parts and ships the bad boards/parts back to China, the labor costs are low, and the shipping is 1/10th that of shipping a whole product. You don't have to pay US labor rates for the board repair. But you need a schematic to do an efficient job localizing the problem.

Thoughts?

Cheers!

GiantTechGuy

03-11-2008, 09:54 AM

Here's the IGBT unit you're looking for...

trscott

03-11-2008, 11:33 AM

Yes, I believe you may be correct!

That looks like it has all the right controls. The only thing I don't see is an adjustment for pre-flow? Is that just a fixed time?

So, in light of my discussion of "master" and apprentice builders, if that seems like a valid assessment of how things work there, who would you say is the creator and master builder of such units?

Also, do you think the IGBT units are mature enough yet that they a good choice? In theory an IGBT unit "should" be better than a mosfet design, but that assumes a reasonably comparable degree of maturity to the design. All things being equal, IGBTs are generally superior semiconductors in high power applications like this. A good design could use fewer high power transistor components each of which might cost more, but which may do a better job of sharing the load, and may be more robust against overload. Again, this is all theoretical and depends on comparable levels of design maturity. A poor IGBT design would still be inferior to a very mature and proven reliable MOSFET design. From your experience, do you have an opinion about this maturity?

Glad to see Frequency adjust!

What do you think such a unit will cost, complete with all the pieces parts to run TIG and Stick?

Does it also come with Plasma? As I said this not a necessity, but nice.

Is it possible to hook up a spoolgun? Again, nice but not crucial.

I know I am burying you with many questions, but,

Service Manual w/ Schematics????????????????????????????????
Users Manual available yet online?

Do we know whose IGBTs they use? (often this is sort of bragging rights in their world...). IXYS is one of the best... There are other good ones.

Would you buy things like different diameter TIG torch collets and Tungstens from them, or from suppliers here?

I believe I will probably want a water cooled torch eventually, but could add that later.

Can I get both foot pedal and torch hand controls? I believe the consensus is that foot pedal is easier to learn with, but doing things on your hands and knees or on your back sometimes (auto restoration for instance...) can make a foot pedal inconvenient, so ultimately I believe I will also want a hand control.

Thanks a lot GiantTechGuy. Your assistance is greatly appreciated!

Cheers all!

GiantTechGuy

03-11-2008, 11:41 AM

Control panel from a mosfet 200 amp tig/arc ac/dc w/pulse

trscott

03-11-2008, 12:00 PM

A couple other observations...

The next to the last knob in the middle row, about centered above the display, can't quite read the legend, even when I zoom in, but looks like it may be AC Frequency Duty Cycle, 30% to 70%??? Sometimes this may be marked "Clean Area Width"?

AC Frequency only goes up to 100 Hz, 200 or 250 would be nice, but I will take what I can get there. I think Lincoln, Miller, and HTP all offer 200 or 250 or so. (yeah, I know, ... the price... I know, just saying...)

I guess another important issue is whether these are designed for 50Hz or 60Hz input AC, 230Vac, single phase? I believe internally Chia uses 240Vac 50Hz, like the UK. But since these have English language legends, I would assume they're designed for export and allow for 60 Hz.

trscott

03-11-2008, 12:09 PM

Control panel from a mosfet 200 amp tig/arc ac/dc w/pulse

I see this one has gas pre-flow which many do not seem to have, but it may have swapped that for the up-slope control?

Just interesting. I am certainly not experienced enough to be the ultimate judge of the relative value of all these controls, just know what I have read and going by what the big guys give you (Lincoln, Miller, HTP, TA, etc.).

... Anxiously waiting for more...

:cool:

GiantTechGuy

03-11-2008, 01:06 PM

trscott

03-11-2008, 10:12 PM

You might be correct, OR perhaps they make them just as cheaply as they can, with little or no service after the sale for one purpose only...To rip off the gullible buying public. That certainly IS a possibility, isn't it? Cause a sucker is born every minute.

I will not deny that there are surely a few who fit this description, but I find the first half of your description more accurate than the second half.

"...they make them just as cheaply as they can, with little or no service after the sale for one purpose only..."

>>> I believe that purpose is most often, to try to make a living in a VERY cost-competitive market with hundreds or thousands of competitors, where the consumers often seem to care ONLY about price and nothing else. It is difficult for us to appreciate how competitive the environment is that they operate within. As markets mature, it is largely up to consumers to reward the companies who do well and shun those who do not. One important key for Chinese companies is to begin selling their products under their own names rather than private labeled, so they can get credit for doing well, and so that those who do poorly will be rejected by the market. This is beginning to happen, and its a very good thing for everyone involved.

"... To rip off the gullible buying public...."

>>> No, I would say that they are trying to SATISFY a sometimes FOOLISH buying public who very often SEEMS to be unwilling to pay for things like burn-in-test, service manuals, warranties, etc. I believe there are conumers (I for one) who would pay the real costs of these things, but in the wildly growing market they operate in, it often appears that the guy who seems to be most rewarded by the market is the one who just cuts costs everywhere. China is kind of the modern business equivalent of the "wild west" where anything goes. Our "wild west" gave rise to some great craftsmen, a lot of mediocre tradesmen, and a few ripoff artists; much the same applies there.

The challenge is to find a way to discriminate between these extremes.

However it is not my experience that real charlatans are very common. There are probably not as many of these as there are the very top tier masters. The vast majority are sincerely trying to do well, but struggling to make a living in a very thin margin, very competitive market. Their only goal is to try to produce a product for a low enough cost that they can capture enough sales to grow their company and make a better living. They really do care about how their company is perceived, but the major feedback they get is that they will only get the business if they are the lowest cost.

One reason that there are not more outright charlatans is that they tend to be self-extinguishing. Even in China, if a company conducts business in an untrustworthy manner, their reputation will suffer and they will not get repeat business.

I have dealt with many smaller Chinese manufacturers who quite clearly want to do a good job, and will work very hard, but just don't quite have the skill or understanding. Many of the middle tier companies who are recreating these welder designs, probably do not have a very good understanding of how the electronic design works, nor even anyone in the company who is a skilled welder. They are just honest entrepreneurs with limited skills, trying to make a buck. We have sometimes been successful nurturing companies like this to help them learn to do higher quality work. One thing that is shocking is the number of entrepreneurial companies there where the CEO and senior executive leadership in the company are all "twenty-somethings", much younger than you would find in equivalent roles here. They often just don't have the experience that we would expect, but they are learning VERY fast.

It would be a giant mistake to write off most of these smaller manufacturers as being dishonest. Reputation and personal honor are often far more important there than they are here. But on another level, they operate in a country where there is no "rule of law" in nearly the durable way that we think of it. Relationships are far more important to them than whether they are in violation of the detail of a legal code. The law is enforced selectively based on who you are and who you know more than based on legal facts.

Bottom line, my experience is that you CAN get some excellent products produced in China today, and you can also get sloppily assembled poor substitutes. But, they are accelerating in the sophistication of their technology at a pace that is absolutely dizzying, and that is rapidly overtaking the West. They make as much progress every couple of years as we took a decade or more to accomplish. You can still find electrical or electronics companies that remind you of the USA in the 50's, but you can also find factories that would be the envy of any Intel line manager, and that are delivering astonishing high quality.

Caveat emptor still applies, "let the buyer beware," it is important to be discriminating about which companies you do business with. This can be the value that someone like GiantTechGuy can offer the rest of us consumers with his relationships with these companies. If people like Larry can learn who the good vendors are and give them feedback about how we expect them to conduct business if they want our business, it will get better.

Eventually some of the best of these Chinese companies will develop brands as recognizable as Sony and Canon, and I say more power to them. They are raising a nation of wonderful people literally out of poverty and starvation that was borne of despotism and communism, through the vehicle of market capitalism. On one level China is a marvelous story of the triumph of the human spirit against all odds. Their government has a long way to go before it will deliver the rule of law and personal liberties that we would expect and respect, but there are some few indications that things are changing for the better even on that front.

YMMV - JMNSHO - Cheers!

trscott

03-11-2008, 10:51 PM

Specs on the igbt and I PMed you....

Product Name: AC/DC Inverter TIG Welding Machine With AC TIG/DC TIG/Plusing TIG/MMA
Features:
1) Input voltage: 220 - 240V, 50Hz ...

Really???

Only 50Hz???

That would be a problem.

It is possible that this is correct and these units have not been developed for export to the USA yet. I believe they use 50Hz in China.

Or maybe this was a typo or inadvertent omission?

Cheers!

GiantTechGuy

03-12-2008, 11:32 AM

GiantTechGuy

03-12-2008, 11:33 AM

Really???

Only 50Hz???

That would be a problem.

It is possible that this is correct and these units have not been developed for export to the USA yet. I believe they use 50Hz in China.

Or maybe this was a typo or inadvertent omission?

Cheers!

yes most likely typo or inadvertent omission

trscott

03-12-2008, 11:48 AM

trscott, thank you for your views. I usually only hear 'spin' like that in politics.

I hope that a few years (or months) after you buy one of these communist chinese welders and need it serviced or require parts, that the fly-by-night company hasn't stopped assembling welders and now uses those parts to make toasters or an electronic version of a cupie doll. Good luck!

I will let this go and won't be-labor the point, but I speak from personal experience. I have been to China, and have done business with a few dozen companies there for the past three years. My MBA class spent a couple of weeks traveling all over the country visiting with top business leaders. I will just say this:

Don't confuse the still totalitarian government in China with their economic system. Anyone who has spent any time in China will tell that today there are more market capitalist entrepreneurs per capita in China than in the USA. Our schools are not teaching our own economic system to our kids, but the young in China are on fire to be entrepreneurs, and their government is very often less intrusive in business than ours.

I am old enough to remember when the same things were said about the quality and reliability of "Jap Junk," but I don't hear very many people disparaging Canon, Sony, Toyota, or Honda products these days. Don't blink, the same thing is happening in China right now at a much faster velocity. We don't do the USA any favors to ignore it.

No spin, just facts.

If you won't believe me, and cannot travel there to see for yourself, or don't wish to, at least do yourself the favor of reading "The World is Flat" by Thomas L. Friedman
http://www.booksamillion.com/ncom/books?id=4053359644645&isbn=0312425074

Cheers!

yorkiepap

03-12-2008, 03:31 PM

To trscott:

I wanted to extend my sincere THANK YOU for providing some enlightenment regarding the import market and the products that are in our market in every aspect of our economy and daily living, and the nature of the Chinese people regarding honor and respect.

Several weeks ago I decided to vacate this forum, as I did another, because of crude, callous, and demeaning remarks and inuendos cast towards me because of my ownership and use of several Chinese welding units I have. Instead of using the information, experience, and ideas I posted to help the "newbies", youngsters & inexperienced, I was judged because some of the equipment I chose to use and own in my shop was of Chinese manufacture. I can only surmise that the origin of equipment manufacture has more clout and value than 44 years of experience. I have posted my results with the units I have and the satisfaction I have gotten with these units....to no avail.

Hopefully, your "on hand" level of expertise and personal engagement with the China companies, will maybe provide some "food for thought" for those "diehards" who also never bought(they think) anything Japanese. I appreciate your "eye opening" posts and perhaps this forum will finally get back to the level of "Professionalism" it touts. Thanks again...... Denny

GiantTechGuy

03-12-2008, 10:22 PM

Specs on the igbt and I PMed you....

Product Name: AC/DC Inverter TIG Welding Machine With AC TIG/DC TIG/Plusing TIG/MMA
Features:
1) Input voltage: 220 - 240V, 50Hz
2) MMA:
a) No-load voltage: 60 - 80V
b) Base current range: 5 - 160A
c) Rated output current: 160A
d) Duty cycle: 35%
3) AC Tig pulsing
a) No-load voltage: 60 - 80V
b) Base current range: 10 - 200A
c) SP%: 0.1-0.9
d) AC square wave frequency: 20 - 100Hz
e) Duty cycle: 60%
4) DC tig and plusing tig
a) Pluse current range: 5 - 200A
b) Duty cycle: 60% at 200A
c) Current up-slope time: 0-10s
d) Current down-slope time: 0-10s
e) Base current range: 5-200A
f) Pluse width ratio: 0.1-0.9
g) Pluse frequency:0.5-25Hz
h) After flow time: 1-25s
i) ARC striking mode: contacting and high frequency as striking
5) Efficiency: >= 80%
6) Protection class of insulation: IP21
7) Net weight: 25kg

G.W.:35kg
8) Exterior dimensions: 430 x 200 x 290mm
Packing: 1pc foam body H/D box

Dimensions: 60 x 35 x 40cm

Updated specs:

Detailed Product Description

Features:
1) Inverter full function pulsing AC/DC TIG (MMA) welding machine
2) Suitable for the welding of all the metals
3) With foot pedal control

Specifications:
1) Input voltage: 220 - 240V, 50Hz/60Hz

2) MMA:
a) No-load voltage: 60 - 80V
b) Base current range: 5 - 160A
c) Rated output current: 160A
d) Duty cycle: 35%

3) AC TIG pulsing:
a) No-load voltage: 60 - 80V
b) Base current range: 10 - 200A
c) SP%: 0.1 - 0.9
d) AC square wave frequency: 20 - 100Hz
e) Duty cycle: 60%

4) DC TIG and pulsing TIG
a) Pulse current range: 5 - 200A
b) Duty cycle: 60% at 200A
c) Current up-slope time: 0 - 10s
d) Current down-slope time: 0 - 10s
e) Base current range: 5 - 200A
f) Pulse width ratio: 0.1 - 0.9
g) Pulse frequency: 0.5 - 25Hz
h) After flow time: 1 - 25s
i) ARC striking mode: contacting and high frequency as striking

5) Efficiency: ≥80%
6) Protection class of insulation: IP21

Packing:
1pc per H/D box with foam
Box dimensions: 63 x 40 x 45cm
N.W.: 38kg
G.W.: 40kg

trscott

03-13-2008, 03:41 AM

Here is an interesting looking unit. IP23 rating, and much higher pulse frequency than the other one. The picture isn't good enough to read the knobs legend to see precisely what controls it has, but there are a lot of controls, which is generally a good thing.

I tend to think that some of the better manufacturer's are Riland, Jasic and Mitech. Riland in particular has a pretty impressive record of developments.

Still looking...

http://trscott.smugmug.com/photos/265244951_Bm3uL-O.jpg

GiantTechGuy

03-13-2008, 06:50 AM

Love their intro...http://wtl.com.cn/

trscott

03-13-2008, 12:05 PM

A lot of anti-history there, but I will say again, PLEASE read "The World Is Flat" by Thomas Friedman.

It is a simple fact of history, and a credit to the character of America, that the enemies we've defeated in battle, have gone on to prosper and become our friends; the UK, Germany, Japan, Vietnam, and ultimately Eastern Europe and China (who we defeated in the cold war).

The electronics industry has been my career and you have the transistor story wrong. Yes the transistor was invented here, but US companies did not believe the transistor would replace the vacum tube. They were not visionary enough to see what it could become. The invention languished here without the investment that commercializing it would take. My dad was a radio engineer in that time, I remember him playing with the first experimental transistors. Companies here viewed them as a curiosity. The Japanese had the vision to refine the technology and develop the first mass produced commercially viable products with transistors. Companies in the USA had the initiative at first, and could have done that if they had been willing to invest the R&D to develop these products at the risk of cannibalizing their own success with vacuum tubes. I wish a USA company had that vision then, but I cannot hold it against the Japanese that they did. I am happy that someone had such vision so that we all now benefit from the rapid development that the transistor has brought.

You will not believe me when I say this, it is true nonetheless, but there is no more loyal and patriotic flag-waving American than me, I simply understand economics differently than you. Where you see harm to the USA in my views and actions, I see the harm in your unwillingness to look at the truth that economics teaches us.

You see economics as a pie to be carved up, wanting the biggest piece for the country you love. I can understand this view, and if it were such, I would want that for the USA as well, but the reality of economics is that it is not a fixed size pie we carve up, it is a thing that grows wealth, like a garden. Economics follows the laws of sowing and reaping just like the oft used metaphor in the Bible. You plant seads of invention, industriousness, and commerce, and your hard work grows wealth, the fact that my garden is healthy does not mean that yours cannot also be, anymore than that yours is lush will mean that mine cannot be.

Adam Smith wrote about and described this in "The Wealth of Nations" in 1776, interesting date eh? He explained that the way for all nations to be most prosperous is for each to do what it is best at, and to trade with others to acquire from them the things they are best at. This has been proven true continually ever since 1776. It describes free-market capitalism, the engine of wealth that has been the foundation and the strength of America. That strength has allowed America to become so propsperous that we give more in charitable causes around the world than any other people in the world. We give more charity to others than the GDP of most countries. I rejoice everytime any people anywhere in the world are freed to pursue the spirit of freedom and their vision through the vehicle of market capitalism. It is quite literally the gift of America to people all over the world, as Michael Medved says, "The greatest nation on God's green earth."

I own and fly a giant flag replica of the thirteen stars in a circle with thirteen stripes, in celebration of the founding of this nation in 1776, one of the greatest events in the history of man. Yeah, I am a patriot; big time! You and I just understand the world differently. I used to see it as you do, I just wish I could help people with such views to understand the economic system that made this nation great. That system will continue to survive and help people thrive and prosper, whether we choose to teach it to our young people and continue to benefit from it or not. It is a great tragedy of education in the USA today that we are not teaching capitalist entrepreneurial economics in our school. We mostly teach socialism if we teach anything.

Again, go buy a copy of "The World is Flat," you won't be sorry. Borrow it from the library if you don't want to spend money on it. But read it, please.

I feel badly that we've hijacked this thread to discuss global economics. I mean it is relevant of course, but perhaps we should take it elsewhere to another thread, or even to PMs if the moderators prefer and if you choose to continue the dialogue.

I wish you no ill, I know that you mean well, but I just believe your understanding is wrong.

Cheers friend!

GiantTechGuy

03-13-2008, 12:49 PM

http://wtl.com.cn/english/products_d.asp?pro_id=91

Look at the flash display at the top of the page... Twinkle ARC..????? hehehehehehe

trscott

03-13-2008, 02:13 PM

http://wtl.com.cn/english/products_d.asp?pro_id=91

Look at the flash display at the top of the page... Twinkle ARC..????? hehehehehehe

Yeah, cute. They are all trying real hard. Their advertising and marketing reminds me sometimes of looking back at ads from the sixties or seventies here. Understand that the whole idea of branding and marketing is very new to them and they are like kids in a candy store trying everything at once, and sometimes it leads to the mental equivalent of stomache ache. Spending a few days in Shanghai or Shenzhen is a bit like cramming Times Square, Las Vegas, Disney World, and Silicon Valley into a ten block business district.

This is the page with the TIG machines:

http://wtl.com.cn/english/products_d.asp?pro_id=106

I want to make clear that I do not yet have any independent confirmation of whether this company and its products are any good or not, they may be, but I just stumbled into their web site with the help of a friend, and from what info I can see, it looks interesting, but I would need more info before deciding to purchase from them or recommending them to anyone.

trscott

03-13-2008, 02:38 PM

One thing I have noticed, is that these TIG machines seem to top out at 200 amps for 230Vac single phase, which represents about 30amps of input in an inverter machine. Anything larger and they seem to all be 380Vac three phase.

I have a 230Vac 50amp outlet. It seems like you ought to be able to get 250 or 300 amps out of that single phase line, given the efficiencies of inverter designs. Not that I would need that much power often, but it would be sort of nice to have it when you did need it, and the times you needed 180 amps or so, you would just have that much more headroom under which you would be operating. Sort of a defacto derating.

Just a thought...

200amps is probably enough for my needs, given the ability to turn to stick if I need to. I'm not building bridges and buildings.

Cheers!

trscott

03-14-2008, 01:30 AM

Perhaps I was meant to read between the lines, or I'm just thickheaded (or both) but please explain how buying a chinese welder is beneficial to the USA?

Oh, that's actually pretty easy. Let's first talk about another industry as an example, the steel industry, perhaps even more basic than welders, and then I'll bring it back to welders.

1) Steel producers here had difficulty competing with imported steel. due to lower labor rates and other inefficiencies, this despite the fact that the foreign producers would have to pay shipping costs to get their products here (and steel isn't lightweight).

2) Steel producers then want the government to impose steel tariffs that raise the price of imports to be priced at least equal to domestic steel. They argue that this is necessary for the protection of our strategically vital steel industry.

3) Local steel producers are therefore protected from having to compete with the lower cost imports and their business is able to continue to be profitable.

BUT:

4) For every steel producer there are thousands of businesses for whom steel is an input cost: heavy equipment makers, car manufacturers, pipe manufacturers, steel building manufacturers, fence wire manufacturers, machine tool manufacturers, and on and on and on a thousand fold.

5) Each of these businesses must pay more for the steel that goes into their products. Which makes their products cost more than if they could get steel at the globally lower price.

6) These companies who make things with steel are left in a less competitive position to export their products globally compared to other countries who can get steel at the global market price.

7) There is a further ripple effect for all the companies who must pay more for their machine tools and their steel buildings and so on. Even the steel producer, who was trying to be protected will end up paying more for forklifts, and other things. ultimately the ripples of this effect are multiplied many times over till even the electricity is probably more expensive than it would have been.

8) America becomes less productive by a factor that is thousands of times greater than the intended benefit to the steel industry they were trying to help.

9) As if that isn't bad enough, the steel industry is not really helped either in the long run. By protecting them from the true global competition, in the short term they don't feel any competitive pressure to become more efficient. Their weakness becomes more and more difficult to fix the longer they go on being protected from competition.

10) The correct solution to tough global competition is to get tougher and find a way to become more efficient so that you can compete. In the case of the steel industry, a little company named Nucor decided that they could outproduce the importers. They innovated in hundreds of small ways and developed a company that did indeed outperform all the imports. They developed small more efficient electric arc furnaces, developed a more cost-effective sources of recycled steel, tossed out the unions, paid everybody very low basic wages with very generous profit sharing; which ultimately resulted in the workers making more than union scale but at the industry's highest rates of productivity. Nucor produced steel at higher quality, lower accident rates, and lower defect rates than the industry had every imagined possible. The CEO took the lowest salary of any big company CEO in the industry, and when the industry took a downturn, all the executives and all the workers took cuts in pay to keep the company going without laying anyone off. The employees were empowered to make a difference, and rewarded when their group was more productive, by getting more income in their pay envelope. Nucor became perhaps the most efficient steel producer in the world, with astonishing financial performance, and a loyal work force that, last I heard, wouldn't vote a union in on a bet.

Competition makes you stronger. Isolation from competition cultivates weakness. Its like a muscle: exercise makes it stronger, and a protective cast makes it atrophy.

Okay, but how would this apply to welders?
First let me say that I truly believe that Lincoln and Miller and HTP and so on make some very impressive products. There is clearly a market for those products, but there seems to be another segment of the market that would like a lower cost welder which doesn't have all the bells and whistles but at one fourth the cost, can do most of the functions of the units that are four times the cost. Just like the USA electronics manufacturers that didn't want to cannibalize their vacum tube business by commercializing transistor products, or IBM that didn't really want the PC to become powerful enough to compete with its mainframe computers, so it took other competitors to do that. In just that way, it is difficult for someone like Lincoln or Miller to conclude that it is a good idea to create a product with 90% of the capabilities at one fourth the price (or some such numbers...).

Nevertheless, there are many businesses who need a welder and are willing to settle for this lower cost unit, and are therefore able to become productive at far less overhead. Maybe it is a small mom and pop startup business who just needs a welder for equipment maintenance in their factory, or an autobody shop that is trying to make ends meet and by purchasing a lower cost welder can reduce their overhead and maybe pay the rent this month, or retain just enough more cashflow to stay in business another year. Any small business owner knows that "cash is king" and cashflow is the lifeblood of a business. Anything you can do to reduce your cash outflow can make the difference to making it your fifth year of business when you finally break even and begin to grow and hire more employees and so on. More jobs are created in just this way by small businesses in this country than by all the big fortune 500 companies.

This principle applies accross the board to all the input costs that every business pays for, from their vehicles, to their paperclips.

We could debate endlessly whether these low cost products are as good, or as useful or sufficiently reliable, or whatever, but that's the power of market capitalism, we don't need an expert panel to decide which products are good enough, that would be a "command economy" and history has proven that perform miserably and guarantee poverty for everyone. In market capitalism, the consumers will vote with their dollars for the products that -- en masse -- the market decides it wants. The products that return value for their cost will succeed in the market and the ones that the market doesn't like will struggle until they can find a way to be competitive. You or I don't really need to care whether Chinese welders are a good or bad investment. If they are no good, they will ultimately fail in the market, but if they are hitting a cost/benefit point that the market finds valuable, they will succeed.

So welders work the same way. For every job in this country that produces welders there is a cascading mountain of jobs that are consumers of welders and consumers of the things that welders produce. If our welder production industry becomes uncompetitive, then that industry needs to follow one of several paths to become more successful. They can either find a way to reduce costs and become more competitive, or maybe they can focus on a niche market that values the special features of their products, or perhaps they can find a new class of products which they can produce more competitively, or maybe they can innovate even more cost effective lower-end products and partner with a low cost producer to create another price point in their product line. Often, like Nucor, they find that they can compete once they get used to the fact that they must. Sometimes the inefficient producers must go out of business, but rescuing them would have an even greater cost to thousands of other businesses (and those business's employees as well) than the value of rescuing them.

Would the ultimate benefit be if all production of hard goods were stopped here so we could buy everything from the chi-coms?

It would be real sad and quite surprising if America, the world's greatest economic powerhouse, built upon the pursuit of economic freedom and individual liberty through the vehicle of free-market capitalism; if this nation found itself unable to find any work to do which it could do better than other nations. I have more confidence in us than to believe that, but even if that were true, protectionist measures are no solution, but in fact only make the illness more serious; like the "doctors" who used to use blood-letting to heal illness. Protectionism as a cure, only succeeds in further draining our incentive to compete, further weakening to our ultimate demise.

Adam Smith wrote that we will achieve the greatest wealth when we do those things which we do best, and exchange that output with the outputs of other individuals, regions, and nations doing the things they do best. Among demonstrated facts, this one is as unimpeachable as gravity. It is very easy to demonstrate for yourself with a few simple economic line diagrams.

Personally, I believe that America's greatest strength is innovation and invention. China's today is efficient mass production. I believe that a very good model today is for us to innovate products here, building the prototypes here in small skunk-works style operations that move very fast, contract these out to manufacturing partners in places like China to do the mass production at very low cost, and then sell the resulting products globally. The key for us to make this work, is to become better at innovating at very high velocity so that the competition here or overseas cannot keep up with our own new innovations. I believe that is a formula for reinvigorating industrial production here. Another model that may work well in some industries is to develop more highly-automated manufacturing to compete with lower labor rates overseas. The fact is that we have developed an expected standard of living and lifestyle in the USA that cannot be supported by low-skill and low-productivity work. Too many companies here have either gone out of business entirely or have given up on product development entirely and just private label inported me-to products, becoming sales and marketing arms for foreign producers, but there are important exceptions to this, like Nucor, who have found a formula to become world class competitors because of the pressure of competition.

But the truth may not be as bleak as you think. Do you know that China is already the third largest consumer of American exports? Or that they are the fastest growing consumer of our exports? As their economy grows they are becoming a more and more important trading partner.

The bottom line is that competition is ultimately good for everybody, but it can be a hard taskmaster; something like a winning athletic coach or a good drill sergeant. You may hate ithem sometimes, but they will make you better.

Cheers!

trscott

03-14-2008, 02:58 PM

Nucor doesn't make steel, they just remelt that which has already been made by businesses like Bethlehem steel. You can do that many times over but eventually you must dig new minerals from the ground.

Well, you are partly correct. I would like to be in the room when you try to tell a Nucor crew that they con't make steel. <grin> Nucor does in fact "make" steel; they make cold rolled and bar and sheet, and even end some end products like roofing and so on.

The mini-mills are able to produce steel on a shorter "just in time" demand schedule, with less shipping costs, and more accurately responding to the demand of their local market than the giant mills which they've replaced. In a word, they have become massively more efficient and reduced the costs of nearly everything that contains steel, while allowing US-made steel to replace those imported sources.

More importantly you seem to want to completely ignore the tremendously important economic efficiency of reclaiming those salvaged materials which used to just go into landfills, but that is not all the contribution that Nucor has made. They also were responsible for innovating a new process for taking raw ore from the ground and converting it cheaply to a form which then was an economically viable substitute for recycled material.

In the meantime the Bethlehem plant closed because they couldn't compete with the remelters. All the thousands of blue collar workers, with generations of actual steelmaking knowledge went up the flue. Next time I see one of them I'll mention how it was for the best, cause they were inefficient and mom-and-pop steel mills will eventually take their place. And every property owner will have the opportunity to dig up their backyards searching for iron ore.

I've visited the rusting hulk that was once the great Bethlehem steel works in Bethlehem PA. I am accutely aware of the tragedy that is the loss of all those jobs. I even took a couple hours to walk through the cemetery that is right across the street from the works, and read some of the stories on the head stones of the men who sacrificed their lives to build an industry that helped make America great.

But the fact remains that the equation is very clear:

1) For every producer of a product that suffers when a competitor puts them out of business by learning how to be more efficient, there are hundreds and thousands of other businesses who are consumers of that product who benefit from the resulting reduced cost of inputs to their business as a result of the improved efficiencies of the new competitor.

2) Yes the marketplace is in some sense "heartless" but it is the dispassionate objective vehicle by which we have become the richest, and most prosperous, and the freest nation on earth.

3) Efficiency is not a debatable or subjective matter. If I produce a given output for fewer inputs than you, I am more efficient. If you are unable to learn from that and compete, it is in the larger market's best interest that you find another line of work.

4) It is the markeplace that decides how various inputs and outputs will be valued, such as quality, reliability, style, working conditions, environmental impact, service after the sale, etc. etc. The consumers of goods ultimately get what they decide they want, as measured by what they will pay for. We can debate whether "they" are right or wrong, but at the end of the day "they" are "us," on a global scale.

But nobody wants a mine or steelmill in their neighborhood. Too stinky, too hazardous. So eventually all the virgin steel comes into the pipeline from an overseas ship. And our currency gets shipped back to them in return. And everyone lived happily ever after!

The mini-mills that Nucor has developed have reversed much of this.

Cheers!

trscott

03-16-2008, 11:30 AM

To paraphrase Jack Warden in the 1958 WWII flick, Run Silent, Run Deep; Sometimes mr trscott, words just fail me!

I hope you and your chi-com welder will be very happy together. You deserve each other.

PS...you're now the second forum member on my ignore list.

I am truly sorry you feel that way. I've enjoyed our discussion. I think we managed to cut right to the heart of an important issue.

Since you aren't listening anyway, and I do not risk giving offense, I will give in to the temptation to say (for the benefit of others): Perhaps it isn't words that fail you ... but ideas.

Cheers anyway! - ts

Another great book which I highly recomend to anyone else who finds this an interesting discussion:

"Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell

Richard M. Ebeling, the Friedrich vonHayek Chair in Economics at Hillsdale College said this of Thomas Sowell's book:
"Basic Economics will surely become the best supplemental text for every introductory economics course and essential reading for years to come for anyone wishing to understand how the real-world market economy works."

zapster

03-16-2008, 09:15 PM

:sleeping::sleeping:

Is this going to go on much longer???

People are try'n to get some sleep here...

...zap!

trscott

03-16-2008, 09:56 PM

Sorry!

Cheers!

GiantTechGuy

06-03-2008, 09:37 PM

We have a new shipment arriving soon, ct520Ds also have cut50Ds , both supplied with 60 amp rated plasma torches.

GiantTechGuy

08-08-2008, 02:13 PM

We will be stocking this unit late fall/early winter..........

down19992000

08-08-2008, 06:44 PM

how much for that tig giantechguy??

RogerRoger

08-09-2008, 03:49 PM

I'm brand new here at the forum. I've been reading all I can about the various choices for internet sold import TIG welders. I'm leaning toward a 3-in-1 system (already own a MIG and an AC/DC stick). I'll be welding mainly steel but will want to do some aluminum. The machine will be used in my home shop for hobbies.

It's been years since I made a living as a welder and, while I spent most of my time as a stick jockey, my TIG skills were passable.

The thought of having a plasma cutter is a plus. Never had one, never used one. We cut stuff the old fashion way, with a flame.

From reading the posts I know there will be the "buy American" crowd, and don't disagree. If the budget permitted, I'd by a miller (love my MIG). On a hobby budget, it's either used or import new.

Here's the question, what are the downsides of buying a 3-in-1 machine? I'm looking at the 520D.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Roger

carol phillips

08-14-2008, 08:04 PM

hello all
im new here and want to do 2 things at once 1 is hey all 2 is im looking for a small plasma cutter , i cut mostly brass and the thickest would be 1/4 inch . does anyone have any suggestions thaks carol

STwelder

08-15-2008, 02:34 AM

Giant Teach for a pretested plasma cutter good value and a good machine. I have a plasma from this guy and no troubles at all from day one.

Rojodiablo

08-15-2008, 04:55 AM

Here's the question, what are the downsides of buying a 3-in-1 machine?
Thoughts?

Thanks!

Roger

Well, if one machine breaks down, all 3 break down. If one needs service, all 3 need service. For me?? If my plasma dies, I run it over to the repair shop. And out comes an O/A torch, a grinder with a cut wheel, and a sawzall. If a tiggy breaks, I am still mig welding, or O/A welding. If the miggy breaks, I just start tigging intil the machine is fixed. I don't own a stick welder, but you get the jist of it. When only one machine dies, I have some ways to keep going. I know money is an issue. But I can imagine that lost time for repairs will cost you even more. I would rather have the ability to not stop completely when the machine decides to take a nap on me.

GiantTechGuy

08-24-2008, 05:59 PM

Well, if one machine breaks down, all 3 break down. If one needs service, all 3 need service. For me?? If my plasma dies, I run it over to the repair shop. And out comes an O/A torch, a grinder with a cut wheel, and a sawzall. If a tiggy breaks, I am still mig welding, or O/A welding. If the miggy breaks, I just start tigging intil the machine is fixed. I don't own a stick welder, but you get the jist of it. When only one machine dies, I have some ways to keep going. I know money is an issue. But I can imagine that lost time for repairs will cost you even more. I would rather have the ability to not stop completely when the machine decides to take a nap on me.

Not necessarily true, one function can fail while the other two can continue to be used.Example, plasma may fail yet you might still have stick and tig available.

Very true, you'd need to send the whole machine away for service.

Pluses might include: if you are limited to tool storage space this machine includes three functions in a very small foot print, portability with three functions all in one little box.

I would agree that if you're welding/cutting for a living it's not best to rely on only one machine for all your needs.

GiantTechGuy

08-24-2008, 06:01 PM

how much for that tig giantechguy??

Not sure yet, probably around a grand plus shipping. It'll come with foot pedal, WP-26 tig torch, stick holder, ground clamp and argon flow meter.

down19992000

08-24-2008, 07:44 PM

oh i can get the miller diversion for $1285 shipped i might go that route. thanks anyway for the reply.

ISL33P

09-05-2008, 07:12 AM

Here's the IGBT unit you're looking for...

what model variable amp foot control is this machine compatible with ?

also, the same question for the two and three pin style connectors ?

Thanks,
Ariel

Matthew

09-05-2008, 07:41 AM

what is a "DOA" welder?

ISL33P

09-05-2008, 07:47 AM

i think its "dead on arrival"

GiantTechGuy

09-06-2008, 02:15 PM

what model variable amp foot control is this machine compatible with ?

also, the same question for the two and three pin style connectors ?

Thanks,
Ariel

It would come supplied with one. I do not know what other brands can be used with it. Does this answer your questions?

GiantTechGuy

09-06-2008, 02:18 PM

oh i can get the miller diversion for $1285 shipped i might go that route. thanks anyway for the reply.

The Miller is a lower amps unit with fewer control options . Does it also come with the foot control for that price?

ISL33P

09-06-2008, 06:06 PM

i am just wondering if there is a more compact foot controller available.

ssc controls have since advised if they have the wiring they can make one up, thanks.

cdlale

09-06-2008, 09:42 PM

The pedal uses a 7 pin connector. Heres a wiring diagram I found for the pedal.

cdlale

09-06-2008, 09:55 PM

I Have one of these machines,a blue one. The pedal looks exactly like a Miller pedal.

down19992000

09-06-2008, 10:11 PM

The Miller is a lower amps unit with fewer control options . Does it also come with the foot control for that price?

it comes with finger control.

ISL33P

09-07-2008, 06:45 AM

thank you very much cdlale !!

cdlale

09-07-2008, 02:06 PM

Heres some pics of my machine The circut boards were coated with some kind of sealant at the factory.

GiantTechGuy

10-28-2008, 06:31 PM

If you have any questions about GiantTech machines you will need to email me at .... lpb60@roadrunner.com... for some reason the powers to be here do not want anyone PMing me.
You would think that with this thread being one of if not the most visited on this whole site that they would they would allow members the ability to contact me easily.

GiantTechGuy

10-28-2008, 06:51 PM

Heres some pics of my machine The circut boards were coated with some kind of sealant at the factory.

MitechUSA is OUT of business. The owner emailed me last week to tell me that he would not be selling inverter welders/cutters any longer, wants to focus more on auto parts sales.

cdlale

10-28-2008, 07:13 PM

That figures,I emailed him the other day regarding a post flow issue I having with my machine. I can only get 3-5 sec of post flow. He said his does that too. I am not sure if I can believe him or not. Do you know if he's going to take care of any warranty one may have. I am thinking I may switch out to a T/A machine.

GiantTechGuy

10-28-2008, 07:19 PM

How many seconds are you supposed to get ?
I have no idea about his warranty but my guess is he would do his best for you.

cdlale

10-28-2008, 07:34 PM

If I have the post flow set to 7 sec I only get 4 sec of flow. When set to 10 sec you only get
5 sec.

GiantTechGuy

10-28-2008, 07:36 PM

It was that way from day one?

cdlale

10-28-2008, 07:40 PM

I dont know,I have been using 1/16 tungstens on mild steel. i just started to use 3/32 on aluminum. Other than that it works great.

GiantTechGuy

10-28-2008, 08:13 PM

Email me at lpb60@roadrunner.com and I can put you in direct contact with Mitech.

GiantTechGuy

03-29-2009, 07:12 PM

Is nearly 20,000 views for one thread a record on WeldingWeb?
I am just curious.

specter

03-29-2009, 08:45 PM

Hey Larry longtime no see!! Where you been hiding?
20000 views for which thread this one?

David R

03-29-2009, 09:11 PM

One thread has 35,000 views and still going.

You are welcome here.

David :)

GiantTechGuy

03-29-2009, 09:35 PM

Hey Larry longtime no see!! Where you been hiding?
20000 views for which thread this one?

I am here on and off, lurking and being intertained :drinkup:

This thread has over 19,000 views and just thought it interesting.

GiantTechGuy

03-29-2009, 09:37 PM

One thread has 35,000 views and still going.

You are welcome here.

David :)

Thanks for the welcome!

The 36 thousand thread, is it a sticky?

GiantTechGuy

04-18-2009, 05:23 PM

In 5 to 6 weeks the GiantTech Arc200 inverter DC stick welder returns. I know of two members here that have had them in use for over 2 years.

specter

04-18-2009, 07:27 PM

Hi Ya Larry nice looking unit.

Wow !! That many views an no private sticky?????

GiantTechGuy

04-19-2009, 11:21 AM

Hi Ya Larry nice looking unit.

Wow !! That many views an no private sticky?????

Here, I think it looks better with the cover on :D

GiantTechGuy

04-19-2009, 11:24 AM

Wow !! That many views an no private sticky?????

Humm............. stickys, how do you get them?

David R

04-19-2009, 11:46 AM

Bribes accepted. :waving:

I have been watching this thread to see the traffic.

Larry, start a New thread and I will make it a sticky.

David

specter

04-19-2009, 12:49 PM

Hey Larry ,Congrads and now getting your own sticky

Tom

specter

04-19-2009, 04:37 PM

Hey Larry how about?? GiantTech Manufacturer Section

GiantTechGuy

06-05-2009, 09:27 PM

Hey Larry how about?? GiantTech Manufacturer Section

Yes thank you.:waving:

brandon113

06-17-2009, 11:18 AM

I third that.....

Brandon

cmartman46

07-09-2009, 10:23 PM

How does this Giantec 200 amp ac/dc tig /plasma,stick welder compare to a TA185 welder?