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oxygen454
02-09-2011, 09:21 PM
Yeah Im realizing that now. There is no ground aka a$$ saver. There cords are similar as mine. Yes they are 4 wire but the one wire is not used. The other male end is a regular 220 volt cable like mine. I would really hate to take this apart but Im really considering it. I could strap a 110volt cable to the 220volt cable and wire that as a separate circuit in the box with a proper ground.

Hardware
02-09-2011, 11:55 PM
I picked up a few other items as well so my total was around $140 but the cord was cheaper than I expected, either $59.99 or $69.99.

The 50' cords were on sale for $119.00. I found the 25' cords in the same bin and there were no tags showing prices for the shorter ones.

I was tempted to get the 50' but it's huge and very bulky. With a 24' x 28' garage the 25' extension in addition to the cord already on the welder will get me anywhere in the garage. As the outlet is mounted on the wall near the side pedestrian door and close to the overhead door, I can still get about 25' outside to the front or side of the garage if I wanted to weld outside - an unlikely scenario as I have a 12' high garage (12' high door) so I'll likely pull any trailer or vehicle inside to work on anyway.

Even the 25' cord is heavy. I put it on the passenger seat of my Tacoma on top of my gym bag and it activated the seatbelt warning light.:laugh: (the gym bag had running shoes, bag gloves and maybe one T-shirt)

Princess Auto is a heavenly place...:D

I checked the receipt while puttering in the garage tonight after a three hour snow-blowing/shovelling session and it was $69.99.

ArTrvlr
02-18-2011, 02:51 AM
:waving:Hi guys, newbe on this forum, great info and ideas here, thanks to all who post the good info.

I too have an extension cord for my welder (Millermatic 212), but it is an un-altered 110V, 20A cord(10-3). Before I tell how I am able to use a 110V cord for 220V, let me put in the disclaimers: I know this method does not meet anyone's code but mine, I do NOT recommend this method be used in any situation but a "one-man" shop.

First is an adapter with a 50A plug on one end and a 20A, 110V receptacle on the other (connected with 10-3 extension cord). Plug that into my welder outlet, then plug the 50FT, 20A-110V extension cord into that. Then the second adapter with a 20A-110V plug plugs into the extension cord, and of course the other end of this adapter has a 50A-220V receptacle on it, and the welder plugs into that. I don't use it often since most of my welding is done close to the area where my 50A receptacle is on the wall. This way my 50FT cord is available for 110V use all the time, with the exception of those rare occasions when I use it with the welder.

Like I said, I am aware of the potential for a mix-up with this set-up if someone other than myself used it. In case any one is not sure what the danger is, anything with a 110V plug could be plugged into 220V, either at the first adapter, on at the end of the extension cord. I am not sure what would happen, I suppose it would depend on what you plugged in. I am sure a power tool would get different results than a TV. Maybe one of the electrictians on here could shed some light on what would/could happen. The best that could happen would be to trip the breaker, not sure what the worst would be.:dizzy:

I know this is not a solution for a commercial or industrial environment, but it works for me and and I didn't have to cut up my good 20A cord, and can still use it for 110V tools.

Down&out
02-23-2011, 09:58 PM
see link cant get pics to post by copy paste..
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=47884

Broccoli1
02-23-2011, 10:02 PM
got my 50ft of cord and my pig tail. Could someone please let me know if I wired these correctly
this is the pigtail wiring..
L14-30 to 50A 125/250V Leviton (old clothes dryer male)
Here is the pigtail

Male
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q206/gulkana/cfgfdg.jpg
female L14 - 30
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q206/gulkana/cxfgfdg.jpg
And here is my 50ft 10AWG 3 wire
Male L14-30P
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q206/gulkana/vbnvb.jpg
and the female 650 for Miller, Esab ect..
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q206/gulkana/fgfgf.jpg

Good to go

Greg Tracker
03-05-2011, 10:31 PM
Take a look at this deal!!! 25 Feet 8/3 "Welders Cord" Rated at 50 amps. 49.99$ 2.99 shipping. I just bought 2! This is a VERY good deal!!

http://www.bargainoutfitters.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?p=BDIY&i=162484

Thats Hot
03-05-2011, 11:11 PM
Looks like you got the last two. they are sold out

BellyUpFish
08-25-2011, 12:54 AM
OK guys-

I'm going shopping tomorrow. I need a cord.

Just picked up a Hobart Handler 187. I'm not sure, I haven't looked and I'm laying in bed, does this welder share the same type of plug that a typical 220v wash/dryer/range might use?

Also this is what I'm looking at picking up:

Plug (http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=71242-334-S42-SP-L&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=1098675&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1)

Outlet (http://www.lowes.com/pd_71246-334-1252-L_0__?productId=1098683&Ntt=50+amp&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3D50%2Bamp&facetInfo=)

Cord (http://www.lowes.com/pd_68598-66906-UTP711930_0__?productId=3191749&Ntt=10%2F3&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3D10%252F3&facetInfo=)

Anyone see any issues with this?

ToolBoxTavern
09-19-2011, 08:10 PM
Buddy of mine had a 50 foot 8/3 gauge wire and gave it to me. I put a male end on one end and 2 females on the other. Of course cannot use both ends at the same time.

fhsfiremanco1
09-19-2011, 09:29 PM
i have too many welder extension cords i have about 5 or 6 6-4 or 6-3+6 soow cords and a couple 8-3 and 8-4 plus the 50 foot 8-4 cord on my welding cart. best part is i never pay for wire we use it for temp power to job site sub panels and the 6-4 is mostly used to power the panel on temp gen. for the case heater and battery charger. i'll show how i make up an extension cord with arrow hart 6-50 cord caps and the other way i do it with isn't up to OSHA standards but I do believe you have to have employees to have an OSHA problem............

Groo
09-28-2011, 01:45 AM
I am strongly considering making up a 100' cord. I am quickly seeing just how much in-wall wire I am going to have to buy to get outlets everywhere I may need them. A big extension cord might end up being cheaper, safer and more user friendly. It may even save me from having to do a sub-panel in my garage.

This is tempting
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=202206509&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=202206509&ci_src=14110944&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D27X-_-202206509&locStoreNum=2775

What I'd really like is some 4 wire stuff, ideally a 6/2 + 8/2, to allow dual voltage out of my 100' cord like Oxy454's (but more correctly :D) and keep the copper content comparable; but that seams to be only available in a 6' range cord from what I've found.

Any ideas for heavy 4 wire SOOW (or some other usable letters) without REALLY breaking the bank?

I'd really like to be able to do more than just weld in my driveway with the cord if I dump that much money into building it. being able to get more use out of the generator and run other tools with the welder out in the driveway would be nice too.

Maybe a couple of these
http://www.adventurerv.net/amp-extension-cord-camper-foot-whandle-p-1412.html
would be better, then build some adapters and whatnot separately, keeping the cords unbroken. would be smarter.

Broccoli1
09-28-2011, 01:30 PM
100' 6/4 would be such a ball buster to deal with.

Groo
09-28-2011, 07:26 PM
100' 6/4 would be such a ball buster to deal with.

I did pick up a 30' RV 50 amp cord from amazon for under $90, but they only had 1 left. I also ordered some better ends than wall boxes to make an adapter or another extension cord. 3x RV cords in-line would be a bit easier to work with than 1 huge cord, no doubt.

the 100' of 6/3 from Home Depot lists the ship weight as 70lbs, but that probably includes a spool. I think I'd definitely do some sort of crank reel on wheels for a monster extension cord like that.

I had another scary brainstorm last night, just use multiple 110v extension cords:dizzy:

I figure a pair of 10 gauge wires = about a 7 gauge if I did my math right. I could do 1 cord for each of the hots and maybe a 3rd 12 gauge cord for the neutral, then just use all the grounds as grounds. 3 cords would let me braid it too, otherwise I'd have to tape it every so often. I could do some funky adapter that would let me get by without cutting the cords' ends off too.

100' 10 gauge extension cord looks like they weight about 24lbs each. the problem is a pair of 100' 10 gauge cords cost about the same as the home depot 6/3 spool. Maybe if I find a deal on them somewhere.

The 1 cord I already ordered will get me significantly more reach than just the bare machine. I guess I see how that works before I spend hundreds more.

superwelder
11-30-2011, 04:48 AM
what do you guys think about this for the beginning of a good extension:

http://www.harborfreight.com/50-ft-30-amp-rv-extension-cord-66122.html

Rick V
11-30-2011, 01:26 PM
what do you guys think about this for the beginning of a good extension: http://www.harborfreight.com/50-ft-30-amp-rv-extension-cord-66122.html

I don't like it - not any great deal at all.
That's $70 for 50 ft of 30 amps rated cable - likely only #10 gauge and the plug is a 30 amp dryer plug... and who knows what the recetacle is? By the time you put welding plug and welding recetacle on that cord (another $35), you will be over $100 - and you still have only 3/10 cable - good for just 30 amps. :cry:

I like Greg Tracker's approach.

Take a look at this deal!!! 25 Feet 8/3 "Welders Cord" Rated at 50 amps. 49.99$ 2.99 shipping. I just bought 2! This is a VERY good deal!! http://www.bargainoutfitters.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?p=BDIY&i=162484

Seen a similar on sale deal at TSC stores a few weeks back; ~$50 for 25 ft of 8/3 50 amp welder cable complete with welder plug and welder receptacle. I bought two for $100+tax. This gives me a maximum amount of flexibility; can use 25 ft for short runs - without having a pile of unused cord getting in the way and weighing me down. For a long run, I can join em together for 50 ft. :)

bigb
11-30-2011, 10:48 PM
and the plug is a 30 amp dryer plug... and who knows what the recetacle is? By the time you put welding :)

Yes it is a 10 gauge cord but it is definately not a dryer plug. RV's are 120 volts only and use Nema configuration TT-30R and TT-30P respectively for the 30 amp hookup. As you probably guessed the TT is for travel trailer. The TT-30 configuration only supplies 120 volts when wired properly.

The 50 amp RV hookup uses a standard 14-50 configuration, just like the one for your electric range. However the RV does not have any 240 volt loads, so the RV panel simply utilizes both 120 volt legs separately.

Occasionally we hear about a DIY who mistakenly wires his own 30 amp travel trailer receptacle with two hots and a ground.:blob2:

Well thats it for your mini RV wiring lesson, maybe I saved at least one RV from extensive damage.

Broccoli1
12-01-2011, 12:49 AM
Bigb,
made this for an Rv Forum

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/EdConley/Plugs/rv-service3.jpg

bigb
12-01-2011, 09:40 AM
Bigb,
made this for an Rv Forum

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/EdConley/Plugs/rv-service3.jpg

very nice Ed

stockhardcorejeeper
12-03-2011, 01:17 AM
Am I likely ot see a current drop with an extension? I have been able to run my Eastwood 175 3-4 current steps higher than teh chart suggests. I'm not getting burn through although I have noticed that the stick out end of the wire is burned black. Can you supply TOO much heat to a bead as long as you don't burn through? Could teh Eastwood not be supplying the current it is supposed to. It is chinese.

SuperArc
12-16-2011, 09:08 AM
This is good stuff.

trapc45
12-21-2011, 01:07 AM
Gents,

I know this is an older thread, but I just finished up a 50' 6/3 welder extension cord while I am waiting on the stuff to put a sub panel in the garage and wire up some 220V and 110V recepticals. Right now the garage only has 2 110V recepticals, one on the ceiling for the garage door opener and one on the wall that the deep freeze is hoggin up. Not a good idea to use that one for anything else from past experience. Anyway, I didn't want to use a wall receptcial on an extension cord. After some exhaustive serching on the old world wide web I found an electical supplier that sources a 6-50R connector. I know the R is for receptical, but I promise this is the connector. If you are interested go to http://www.galco.com/ and type 6709N in the site's serch bar. They also offer the matching plug, but it is straight, not a 90 degree.

Trap

yesindeed
12-27-2011, 06:43 PM
Gents,

I know this is an older thread, but I just finished up a 50' 6/3 welder extension cord while I am waiting on the stuff to put a sub panel in the garage and wire up some 220V and 110V recepticals. Right now the garage only has 2 110V recepticals, one on the ceiling for the garage door opener and one on the wall that the deep freeze is hoggin up. Not a good idea to use that one for anything else from past experience. Anyway, I didn't want to use a wall receptcial on an extension cord. After some exhaustive serching on the old world wide web I found an electical supplier that sources a 6-50R connector. I know the R is for receptical, but I promise this is the connector. If you are interested go to http://www.galco.com/ and type 6709N in the site's serch bar. They also offer the matching plug, but it is straight, not a 90 degree.

Trap

here is the direct link:

http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/wa/wcat/itemdtl.r?listtype=&pnum=6709N-CWD

sami63x
12-27-2011, 07:01 PM
http://www.tscstores.com/25-WELDING-EXTENSION-CORD-P9933.aspx

go and by one 59.99

Chanley
12-28-2011, 01:24 AM
great post

Housedad
01-09-2012, 01:10 AM
here is the direct link:

http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/wa/wcat/itemdtl.r?listtype=&pnum=6709N-CWD

Thanks for the link. I found it a bit cheaper at a different place, but that turned out to be the best solution for me. I have 76 feet of 6/3 SOOW arriving tomorrow. As I looked around for a box and clamp to fit that wire size, it became cleare that it was quite clunky.

That plug is perfect. Now I just have to wait for the plug to show up. :)

TeckniX
03-29-2012, 08:45 PM
Slim-

That is a 14-50 Outlet

Go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy a 14-50 4-wire range plug and a 6-50R

You will use the Red, Black and Green wires- cut back the White and tape off.

Obviously there's always a lot of confusion for noobs like me.
I seem to need a 14-30P and 6-50R.

Looking around at the best price, I found the following:
http://www.mrsupply.com/cooper-wiring-devies-14-30p-14-50p-straight-blade-plug-s21-sp.html

How can this be a 14-30P and 14-50P? i didn't think that they plugged in the same way?

Would this receptacle be ok?
http://www.mrsupply.com/cooper-wiring-devices-1252-6-50r-surface-mount-receptacle.html

This would bring my Plug/Receptacle combo to about $20 shipped, which isn't a bad deal.

Thanks for the help!


ps: Since I'm going from a 4-wire plug to a 3-wire receptacle, I believe the proper wiring is:

TeckniX
03-29-2012, 09:02 PM
For those interested I found this 25ft 8/3 (rated 40a?) extension cord:

http://www.tooldex.com/product/ANC-601917-88-06/Anchor-Brand-601917-88-06-Welder-Extension-Cords/

Already has the 6-50P/R on it. $85 shipped...

Broccoli1
03-29-2012, 10:20 PM
Read the product description: that plug you linked to does
Both by changing one of the blades :)

TeckniX
03-30-2012, 09:11 PM
I didn't want to spam the thread, but I saw that after reading :D

Insaneride
03-31-2012, 03:06 PM
Just thought I would share this; in the USA, the electrical ground sticks out farther on the plugs so as to ground your machine before it gits power. So, if you put the green wire to the plug that sticks out the most, then it will work no matter witch you put the black and white or red and black to as long as the ground is correct.

Its probably a good idea to run the white wire to the larger plug or neutral to be consistent with electrical codes but always remeber; " the ground sticks out farther than the hot plugs" you can see this in previous pics related to this post. My welder uses a 250V osha plug instead of the dryer type (ground sticks out). It plugs into a spider box (temporary distribution on construction sites) that way.

I dont have pics related to this thread but this is my version of Thors Hammer (I think) that I made on a mill.

Mr. Moose
04-24-2012, 02:29 PM
I just did a cord too. I don't like the 4"square box as I am afraid the knockouts will get pushed in :dizzy:so I used a 2 gang bell box with a stainless plate the red dot number from HD is R21H32 3/4" three hole box for wet location. For a connector I got a Hubble bus drop connector (AKA a Kellems grip connector). It works like a Chinese finger trap to grip the cord. about $13 from an electrical supply house. you wont need to worry about the cord pulling out of this one! :laugh: these fit 10/3 so and a 3/4' hub or knockout. to fit 8/3 you will need a 1" if not a 1.25" knockout or hub

fred

Just as an update, I followed this example from Post #151, and built a nice extension.

The 8/3 SO cord WILL fit through the 3/4 hole, with a very small clearance. :)

Mango Matto
05-31-2012, 11:33 PM
I apologize if this is a naive question, but when I'm not certain I would rather double check. I found this Extension cord (http://www.harborfreight.com/50-ft-10-gauge-triple-tap-extension-cord-93670.html) today. The specs on the label say
Rated voltage: 125
Max amperage: 15
Max watts: 1875
Gauge: 10 AWG
Service rating: SJOTW.

I was wondering if this would work just like the home depot cord. The price is nearly half the price so if it works the same I'm gonna get one. 15 amps seems low but I wasn't sure if it is rated that low because of the ends.
Thanks, Mango Matto

Seafarer12
06-01-2012, 01:06 AM
How long is the cord? Might have derated it due to length but you probably right it will have 15 amp plugs on it. Should be good up to 30 amps as long as it isnt a super long one.

lamename
06-01-2012, 08:36 AM
Here is my extension cord. It's on wheels and can hold a small welder or plasma cutter. 173081

Mango Matto
06-01-2012, 09:37 AM
How long is the cord? Might have derated it due to length but you probably right it will have 15 amp plugs on it. Should be good up to 30 amps as long as it isnt a super long one.

It's a 50' cord.

Housedad
06-21-2012, 06:51 PM
For anyone that was thinking of using the Cooper 6-50 cord socket from the previous page, This might tell you if you want it. I finished making my 76 foot 6/3 extension cord.

My stove had a 10-50 receptical, and I changed it off to a 14-50. Luckily the wire in the wall was 6-4 and made it easy.

I neeeded a 14-50 end on the cord since that is what my generator has, and this way I don't need any pigtails to convert it.

76 feet of 6/3 is HEAVY. It is rather stiff when wiring.

Final costs:

76 feet 0f 6/3 SOOW $212.55 delivered

Cooper socket end $59.52 delivered

14050 plug about $9.50 including tax

Total $281.57

Someone has turned off img function on this thread for some reason, so here is the link to the picks in my album:


http://weldingweb.com/album.php?albumid=1051

superwelder
06-21-2012, 10:00 PM
i was looking at cord like that but 10/3 at HD the other day, i believe it was about 1.6x/ft.
good deal? i was looking to make a 25-30'.

i was doing like others and looking for a heavy 115v extension to convert but can't seem to find one for a good price.

Insaneride
06-21-2012, 10:36 PM
I believe copper has a higher ampacity rating than Aluminum for the same gauge. Actually Im positive it does.
Especially solid core copper.
What I wanna know is; is aluminum wire CP Al? Its flexible like CP. Does it work good or ok for Al filler when TIGing? I tried it with DC TIG but DC TIG isnt for a novice weldor like Me. Im gonna build a HF machine soon.

Please dont start the tin foil hat bs for this question. That would be gay

BB70Chevelle
08-06-2012, 10:45 AM
Would a 12/3 extension cord be ok for use with a esab caddymig c160i? Need to do some body work on my car and can't get the car inside the garage so was looking at making an extension cord from a 50ft 12/3 cord and adding on the 6-50 plug/receptacle.

forhire
08-06-2012, 11:53 AM
Would a 12/3 extension cord be ok for use with a esab caddymig c160i? Need to do some body work on my car and can't get the car inside the garage so was looking at making an extension cord from a 50ft 12/3 cord and adding on the 6-50 plug/receptacle.

The Caddy draws 10A. A 12/3 cord should be fine. Check your manual for the minimum wire gauge but I think it will list 14 gauge. The European manual I found specified 3G1.5 mm2 which is three 1.5mm wires. 14 gauge is 1.63mm. It also noted you can run up to 50m using 3G2.5 mm2 which is 150 feet with a 10 gauge wire.

wwunkypeet
11-25-2012, 06:44 PM
I made my 100 ft 220v extension cord to run from my drier receptacle to my garage--would have run service out there but i'm renting and hate to spend that much for someone elses improvements.

I used 3 100 ft cords from home depot- 12/3 or 10/3- don't remember-low 20$ each. All three wires from each cord were then stripped and attached to either a power or ground spade in the plug and receptacle. I made the female end by taking the female fixture off its metal plate and inserting it instead in a 45 degree 2 or 2.5inch pvc fitting with a reducer fitting in the other end just large enough to pass the three power cords through. a few tiny drill holes in each end held the female fixture and reducer tight. It made a sweet snug little package and works great -- no heat, no blown breaker. Total cost was under 100$ plus maybe 90minutes work. The cords were zip tied and taped together. I store it in a 35 gallon plastic garbage can because it is too huge to store loose. I drag the can with one hand while pulling out cord as I go to prevent ever dragging the cord on a rough surface. Hopefully, this will last a lifetime

pete

superwelder
11-25-2012, 07:38 PM
wow how did you get those extensions so cheap?

37ford4dr
11-25-2012, 08:19 PM
why not use generator extension cords and termnate them to suit your needs....they are the right size can be purchased to the length you need and are designed for outdoor and heavy duty use

superwelder
11-25-2012, 08:24 PM
of couse you can always do that but i'm looking at cost. i can always go get some SOOW cord but if i can chop up an extension cheaper, thats what i'll do.

37ford4dr
11-25-2012, 11:21 PM
of couse you can always do that but i'm looking at cost. i can always go get some SOOW cord but if i can chop up an extension cheaper, thats what i'll do.

i just bought a ridgid generator extension cord from home depot 20 amp 240v 50' for $47

you just have to keep your eye open for good deals they are out there

superwelder
11-26-2012, 12:09 AM
20A? is that enough for a 220v welder?

SeattleKent
01-07-2013, 02:49 PM
Great thread!

Below is my attempt at a cord. Here are the parts used if someone else wants to try:


Cable: purchased used on Craigslist. Got two 100’ and one 25’ of 10/3 SO wire for $80. More than I needed but at that price had to go for it. The 25’ was enough for my first cable so I used that.

Plug: Leviton “30/50 Amp Dual Power Plug – 30/50A-250V – 6-30P or 6-50P – No. 931”. Purchased from Lowes.

Socket: 6-50R from Home Depot

Cover: From Lowes.

Metal Box: Bell Two Gang Box. Number 5341-0. Purchased from Platt, a local electrical supply house. About $14.

Strain Relief: Leviton “Wire mesh safety grips”. Cat # L7504 Strain Relief Grip. Also from Platt for about $19.


The box and strain relief were a little more expensive that other solutions. I thought it worthwhile for a bit more durability and safety.

Broccoli1
01-07-2013, 05:53 PM
wow how did you get those extensions so cheap?

I have a feeling that he used single 12g wire not actual 12/3 Cord

No way one could get a 100' of Cord for 20 bux but single 12g 100' roll of wire runs around 20-30 bux.

Oldendum
01-07-2013, 06:30 PM
I use some old cordless extension plugs I got at a thrift store in Edison, NJ. They're marked "N. Tesla". They work OK, but you have to be careful which direction you point them in.

richxd87
01-24-2013, 05:20 PM
Hi Guys,
Quick and simple question here. I currently have a Nema 10-30p plug and would like to make a pig tail to accept the 6-50P. Can I just use this dryer cord (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202214665/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=plug+adapter&storeId=10051#product_description) and attach a 6-50R receptacle to it? From there I would like to purchase this extension cord (http://store.cyberweld.com/230voexco25.html?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=productads#pdItemDataTabs) from cyber weld.

http://frentzandsons.com/Hardware%20References/plug%20imiges/10-30p.jpg

Thanks,
Richard

jamming
02-21-2013, 04:41 PM
The marine stores sell power cords rated for 50 amps "shore supply" #6 conductor. NEVER EVER USE A #12 on a #6 hard wired Outlet. I am in shock anyone would do this. Big light Then Flash !!!!!!!!!!!

slotard
03-21-2013, 12:42 AM
Costco here has 100' 12/3 cords for $43. Can anyone tell me whether I can reasonably use 50' of 12/3 for a 20A 220V welder?

tadawson
03-21-2013, 04:28 PM
20 amps at 50 feet is well within the norm for 12 gauge. The voltage does not matter - cable gauge is sized by max amps and length only. The voltage determines what insulation is needed on the cable, so you will need to verify that thus cheapo cord/cable is rated for more than 120 volts . . .and with the offshore stuff, nothing is a given.


To that end, SO cable is rated for 600 volts, and SJO (the smaller stuff) for300 volts. God only knows what this stuff is . . . although you could likely buy 50 feet of good cable for close to this price.

- Tim

slotard
03-21-2013, 08:24 PM
It's a "Prime Wire" 100' SJTW 12/3 extension cord. What's the maximum distance I could run it for? I have a 30A 230 circuit and the welder is rated to run on 208 @ 22A or 230 @ 20A.

Oldendum
03-22-2013, 08:58 AM
Here's a voltage drop calculator: http://www.electrician2.com/calculators/vd_calculator_initial.html

What is your line voltage under load at present?

xcelerationrules
07-09-2013, 01:58 AM
I Bought a 100 foot 10/3 extension cord and 2 deep 4x4 electrical boxes.Bored hole through garage to the 4 wire.
Dryer outlet in basement.using dryer cord connected the black and red. As 110 leg , used bare green as my ground, terminated white neutral inside 4x4 box...all connections used wire nuts..
Inside garage I installed the other 4x4 box..with 50 amp 3 wire welding recepticle.I set up the cord this way to be able to modify the cord later if needed.
Anyone see any problems? Thanks..replies much appreciated

superwelder
07-09-2013, 02:01 AM
what wire did you use and where did you get it? i'm still trying to find some for a good price.

xcelerationrules
07-09-2013, 03:46 AM
Bought the cord at hf.modified it from its original 110 volt rating.its. yellow with a triple tap in stock form..with coupon ran me $80.

pepi
07-10-2013, 12:45 AM
Good wire, large gauge will keep your welder happy, keeps it efficient. Cheep crapy extension cords will cost you in ways you may not realize. The down side of cheep is heat and that is wasted energy the welder could use.

Just search 50 ft 30 amp 220 extension cord plenty out there


Just saying

superwelder
07-10-2013, 03:01 AM
Bought the cord at hf.modified it from its original 110 volt rating.its. yellow with a triple tap in stock form..with coupon ran me $80.

i was at HF today and saw the extension your talking about but the label said 125v i believe. does the jacket say otherwise? i forgot to look.

joshuabardwell
07-10-2013, 03:59 AM
i was at HF today and saw the extension your talking about but the label said 125v i believe. does the jacket say otherwise? i forgot to look.

I don't think it matters. 10 gauge is 10 gauge. Amps is amps.

xcelerationrules
07-10-2013, 08:39 AM
Says 300 volt on the jacket.

shortfuse
07-10-2013, 01:15 PM
i was at HF today and saw the extension your talking about but the label said 125v i believe. does the jacket say otherwise? i forgot to look.

Some extension cords are designed with plugs, receptacles and wiring rated for 110-120V or 220V for normal usage, while the cable itself may be rated for a max of 300V or 600V on the cable markings.

lorbay
07-10-2013, 01:46 PM
Why the yellow tape on the ground? I might actually recommend against that. It is common to see a yellow stripe down the length of a green ground, but a fat yellow band around it could actually be seen as a recoloring. Of course, you're not likely to screw it up in this application, but I thought I'd point that out.

Also, you really should recolor the white wire, since it is now a hot and no longer a neutral. This is most easily done with a marker, just making it a second black (or any color other than white, gray, or green), along its entire visible length.

While there is nothing wrong with making the same hot wire on the same size pin, I'll just point out that it is not required.

Actually this is now in the CEC ( Canadian Electrical Code) all 220 v conductors are to be identified with RED and Black at the termination points. You will notice now at the box stores all the PVC jacket cables are coming different colours.

Lin

Broccoli1
07-10-2013, 03:03 PM
i was at HF today and saw the extension your talking about but the label said 125v i believe. does the jacket say otherwise? i forgot to look.

It is labeled 125v because it has a 120v Plug on it.

As mentioned, the cord is rated for up to 300v so good for 240v applications

obsolete_aok
07-16-2013, 08:48 PM
This might help. The critical concerns are heat production and voltage drop. Source web page:

-- http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

And the main table for gauge identifiers and characteristics, which is supported at the web site with a calculation Java program.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/6453/xrb6.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/i/xrb6.jpg/)

A couple of things have gone missing in this discussion: Maximum Amps for Power Transmission vs. Maximum Amps for Chassis Wiring. The discussion of running 30-amp service from a laundry room to a 50-foot distant work area, particularly, could benefit from the reasoning behind this distinction.

The 4-gauge size lets you use Medium Duty off-the-shelf automotive cable, particularly useful as it comes in a double-ended ground-lug type that's perfect for chassis wiring. If you are safely under the 135 amp limit for your circuit then this gives you 15" for $7 complete. 30" might run you $10. The Heavy Duty 2-gauge weight isn't that much more expensive to carry 181 amps internally.

In a different/nonwelding application I used a four-ply 4-gauge power jumper. At peanuts for each 4-gauge cable might as well double up twice and cover 500 amps.

Seiler
09-26-2013, 01:02 PM
Small bump to share information and pictures.

Disclaimer: If you decide to mimic, do so at your OWN risk. :)

Short summary. Purchased a Miller Dynasty 200DX. I want to utilize my dryer outlet until I can find a more permanent solution. Dryer outlet is NEMA 14-30R which is connected to a 30A breaker in the panel. Checked with multimeter to verify the two 110V feeds which were more like 120V, reading was ~240V.

I wired 35ft of 10/3 600V purchased from HomeDepot. On one end is a 3 prong (I removed the neutral wire prong) 14-30P running to a Pass & Seymour Turnlok L1430C. On the welder end I used a Pass & Seymour Turnlok L1430P which I wired for 3-phase in case I'm ever in a 3-phase environment.

Pictures:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2884/9951462956_b21c8cbae1_b.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3715/9951439725_da4571aea4_b.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5327/9951462166_5bd8a08b87_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7369/9951566383_c0e938179a_b.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3674/9951468576_95bc824f38_b.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2851/9951436835_8daf2c67fa_b.jpg

The attached picture below I borrowed from TeckniX because the receptacle on the right is the same as what I have. Only difference being my wire has a Green, Black and White. Green going to the Ground, Black and White are hot.

EDIT: I have no idea why the images are not showing in the reply without having to click on them. :mad:

502011

mike837go
09-26-2013, 03:56 PM
Reconsider that last picture. The plug on the right is not what you have. The unused nutral pin is a flat blade, your picture is an L-shape. That's usually the ground on a 220V 30A setup.

So you've created not only an extention cord, but an adapter as well.

Kudos!

Seiler
09-27-2013, 03:22 AM
Reconsider that last picture. The plug on the right is not what you have. The unused nutral pin is a flat blade, your picture is an L-shape. That's usually the ground on a 220V 30A setup.

So you've created not only an extention cord, but an adapter as well.

Kudos!

Assuming that the attached image in my first post is a receptacle and not a plug, it does in fact represent the outlet installed in my wall. It is a NEMA 14-30R. G being Ground, Y being Hot, X being Hot and W neutral. On this particular 4-prong setup, the neutral allows the dryer to use a 110V feed and the neutral return wire for the lights inside the drum. The welding machine does not require a neutral, only two hots and a ground. To verify my assumptions on G, Y, X and W... I disassembled the outlet to inspect the wiring attached before even pursuing this project.

For the NEMA 14-30P (plug) on my extension cord, I removed the L shaped prong from the connector since it will not be in use for this situation. My 10/3 cord has a Green, a Black and a White wire on the inside. Green going to ground naturally, Black is hot and I wired the White to a hot as well.

Here is my outlet:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7314/9961660073_8a48a68fdd_b.jpg

Here is the dryer plug:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5334/9961561334_8280cbaa14_b.jpg

Here is my extension cord plug, you can see the missing prong:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7414/9961686013_3dd3c57d8c_b.jpg

And here are top/side/bottom views of the wiring. You can see the bare copper ground on top, the black and red feeds on each side and the neutral wire on the bottom.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7376/9961535605_bb16fb57b0_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7410/9961592426_fcb4363b52_b.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2815/9961661733_03900c5080_b.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2849/9961534885_89d3990985_b.jpg

:)

Broccoli1
09-27-2013, 06:48 PM
Where did you say you got the Graphic from? the one with the Green, Black, red wiring? That's is stolen from my P Bucket :)

Broccoli1
09-27-2013, 07:00 PM
Just an FYI- your L14-30 wired for 3-phase will not work- Nema L14-30 is a single phase configuration.
30 amp. 125/250 volt
3-Pole
4-Wire Grounding

duaneb55
09-27-2013, 08:25 PM
Where did you say you got the Graphic from? the one with the Green, Black, red wiring? That's is stolen from my P Bucket :)

:eek: I wondered how long it would take for a response. :laugh:

duaneb55
09-27-2013, 08:27 PM
Just an FYI- your L14-30 wired for 3-phase will not work- Nema L14-30 is a single phase configuration.
30 amp. 125/250 volt
3-Pole
4-Wire Grounding

Won't find any "legal" 3-phase power sources with an L14-30 anyway. :rolleyes:

Seiler
09-30-2013, 11:17 AM
Where did you say you got the Graphic from? the one with the Green, Black, red wiring? That's is stolen from my P Bucket :)

Honestly, I thought that image was yours. I skimmed back through the thread briefly and stumbled upon the image on post #276. I thought maybe it had been made using previous versions of other images by you. Either way, it helped immensely. Glad I could finally give credit where it is due.


Just an FYI- your L14-30 wired for 3-phase will not work- Nema L14-30 is a single phase configuration.
30 amp. 125/250 volt
3-Pole
4-Wire Grounding


Won't find any "legal" 3-phase power sources with an L14-30 anyway. :rolleyes:

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. A friend of mine recommended the 3-phase wiring to me and I will be sure to correct him on his own advice.

I'm curious. When utilizing 3-phase power, what types of configurations are used?

Scott

duaneb55
09-30-2013, 12:01 PM
When utilizing 3-phase power, what types of configurations are used?
L15 thru L23 configurations.
http://www.stayonline.com/power-nema-locking-connectors.aspx


The purpose of the various configurations (and following them) is to avoid connecting the wrong voltage/phase power source to equipment that would result in letting the factory smoke out.

DetailerDave
09-30-2013, 12:27 PM
Not sure if I am a screw-up or not, lol. I needed to get 240V out to my shed. I looked at the tag on my compressor, starting and running load. According to the chart, 12 ga was sufficient, so I got a 50' 10 ga cord. I used an extra dryer extension cord, put a box with on the other end with a receptacle for the dryer. I added a 6" whip with a 125/20A receptacle, to match the cord. The whip is wired G/H/H for 240V. In the shed, I put another whip with a 125/20A receptacle. I added a circuit breaker box at the door, and at the compressor, a fused On/Off switch. That way I can use 125V for lights, and outlets, without turning on the compressor. It is working out very well, so far, at least. Just a bit of a PIA to run the cord from the house to the shed when I need to have power out there.

mike837go
10-01-2013, 01:47 PM
Not sure if I am a screw-up or not, lol. I needed to get 240V out to my shed. I looked at the tag on my compressor, starting and running load. According to the chart, 12 ga was sufficient, so I got a 50' 10 ga cord. I used an extra dryer extension cord, put a box with on the other end with a receptacle for the dryer. I added a 6" whip with a 125/20A receptacle, to match the cord. The whip is wired G/H/H for 240V. In the shed, I put another whip with a 125/20A receptacle. I added a circuit breaker box at the door, and at the compressor, a fused On/Off switch. That way I can use 125V for lights, and outlets, without turning on the compressor. It is working out very well, so far, at least. Just a bit of a PIA to run the cord from the house to the shed when I need to have power out there.

Yeah, it'll work.

BUT, it reads like you've used the ground lead for the 125V return.

Not legal. And makes things less safe than they could be.

Can you get a 12ga neutral lead out there so that ground will always be ground?

BrooklynBravest
03-20-2014, 10:16 AM
I want to make an extension cord to run a Hobart MVP 210. I believe hobart says it needs 50amps on 220v.

Does this only apply to the breaker its on? The breaker is 50amp. But what gauge cord would I need for a 50'? My home depot only sells 10 gauge, 8 or higher is special order

BrooklynBravest
03-21-2014, 09:15 PM
Anyone? Bueller?

I have a hobart 210mvp on the way. Manual says it draws 24amps.

I have a 50amp dryer outlet
I'm using in my basement.

I purchased 50' of 10/3 rated at 30 amps along with 50amp ends/recepticle.

I also made the pigtail to use as an adapter to my 4 prong 220v dryer recepticle.

So overall it's probably a 55' run. The outlet is 3' from the breaker.

Is 10 gauge ok? Is it ok to have 50amp hardware
on 30amp cable?

Broccoli1
03-21-2014, 11:03 PM
Anyone? Bueller?

I have a hobart 210mvp on the way. Manual says it draws 24amps.

I have a 50amp dryer outlet
I'm using in my basement.

I purchased 50' of 10/3 rated at 30 amps along with 50amp ends/recepticle.

I also made the pigtail to use as an adapter to my 4 prong 220v dryer recepticle.

So overall it's probably a 55' run. The outlet is 3' from the breaker.

Is 10 gauge ok? Is it ok to have 50amp hardware
on 30amp cable?

You are ok using it with the Hobart 210

bigb
03-21-2014, 11:26 PM
I have a 50amp dryer outlet
I'm using in my basement.

?


I don't believe that there is a 50 amp dryer receptacle and cord made, dryers use 30 amp circuits. Something does not sound right.

BrooklynBravest
03-22-2014, 12:07 AM
I don't believe that there is a 50 amp dryer receptacle and cord made, dryers use 30 amp circuits. Something does not sound right.

I may be mistaken, I just know it's a 220 outlet.

Does it matter if I use 50amp hardware on 30amp rated cable?

bigb
03-22-2014, 12:57 AM
I may be mistaken, I just know it's a 220 outlet.

Does it matter if I use 50amp hardware on 30amp rated cable?

It'll be fine, got one like it myself

Broccoli1
03-23-2014, 02:56 PM
I may be mistaken, I just know it's a 220 outlet.

Does it matter if I use 50amp hardware on 30amp rated cable?

Trick question :)

The hobart 210 welding machine will not exceed the ratings of the cord or the plug.

If you were to use the combo on some other machine it could be a problem- it depends on the application.

The Hobart 210 comes with a 50 amp plug but the wires in the power cord on the machine are not 6g, probably 10g.
I think that info is on the power cord.

jimcolt
03-23-2014, 03:15 PM
If the circuit for your dryer has a 50 amp breaker (Most dryers operate on a 30 amp circuit) as you mention.....then using a 10 gauge extension cord (rated for 30 amps) will be dangerous in the event of a short circuit. The breaker will not trip until its sees over 50 amps......so you could be drawing 50 amps through conductors rated for 30 amps. They would get very hot, and could be a fire hazard.

It will work, but in the event of some sort of failure that causes a high current draw you could have issues.

Jim Colt



Anyone? Bueller?

I have a hobart 210mvp on the way. Manual says it draws 24amps.

I have a 50amp dryer outlet
I'm using in my basement.

I purchased 50' of 10/3 rated at 30 amps along with 50amp ends/recepticle.

I also made the pigtail to use as an adapter to my 4 prong 220v dryer recepticle.

So overall it's probably a 55' run. The outlet is 3' from the breaker.

Is 10 gauge ok? Is it ok to have 50amp hardware
on 30amp cable?

Broccoli1
03-23-2014, 06:17 PM
Jim,

The machine doesn't even come with a cord over 10g.

The short will be way over 50 and only momentary- it will handle the short. It won't handle continuous loads over 30amps but the 210 won't come close.

-dirt-
03-27-2014, 05:58 PM
It has been referenced on pages 1 and 11, but I would like some clarity as to how having a 120v receptacle, along with a 240v receptacle for a welder would be wired. I found this diagram (via Broccoli1 I believe) and modified it to how I would wire this, should I attempt it:

671301

In my detached shop, the ground is not bonded to the subpanel per 2011 NEC code. Looks like this: 671341

Someone please explain to me what scenario would cause something bad to happen? I'm thinking in some instance the metal subpanel box could become energized...

Thanks!

Broccoli1
03-27-2014, 06:24 PM
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to accomplish but your way is indefinitely not good and is dangerous.

-dirt-
03-27-2014, 06:40 PM
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to accomplish but your way is indefinitely not good and is dangerous.

I'm trying to accomplish what was mentioned on page 1 (here (http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?11537-HOW-TO-make-a-220V-extension-cord&p=100544#post100544) and here (http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?11537-HOW-TO-make-a-220V-extension-cord&p=100559#post100559)) and page 11 regarding having both a 120 and 240 receptacles on the end of an extension cord...

Can you explain what exactly the dangers are?? An energized subpanel?

Broccoli1
03-27-2014, 06:53 PM
I'm trying to accomplish what was mentioned on page 1 (here (http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?11537-HOW-TO-make-a-220V-extension-cord&p=100544#post100544) and here (http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?11537-HOW-TO-make-a-220V-extension-cord&p=100559#post100559)) and page 11 regarding having both a 120 and 240 receptacles on the end of an extension cord...

Can you explain what exactly the dangers are?? An energized subpanel?

You can only do it with a 4-wire cord coming out of a 4-wire receptacle.

"Someone please explain to me what scenario would cause something bad to happen? I'm thinking in some instance the metal subpanel box could become energized…"

Follow the electricity on your 120v cord in your diagram. It comes in on the Black wire, returns on the White wire which you have bonded to the Green ground in the 240v side in the cord. You have now just energized every piece of metal that the Green wire ground come in contact with.

-dirt-
03-27-2014, 07:00 PM
Thanks! Just found this other post where you answered similar question: http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?37118-Wiring-110volt-off-220

CinRed
04-08-2014, 02:51 AM
Hi all, this is my very first post here on WeldingWeb.com
I have a new Northern Tools Hybrid 200 sitting in my garage.
I've been saving up to buy a generator to run my machine with and was planning on ordering it in the morning...

LONG story short: I came here to ask for advice on how I could adapt my welders plug to the generators twist lock receptacle.
While searching; I found this thread... (I'm glad I did!)
I read every single post and thanks to the O.P., Broccoli, and a few others I now have the info (and cahones) to build an ext. cord instead...
Thank you guys! :drinkup:
I will post pics of my set-up after I complete it.
Hopefully, one day, I too can contribute to this fine forum! :D

CinRed
04-08-2014, 02:50 PM
Ok.
I've been reading other threads and posts on here, as well as on other "electrical" sites. Now I'm more confused than I was before. :dizzy:
First off, I rent, so adding power to this house is not going to happen. Secondly, my receptacle is a NEMA 10-30
To anyone who has the same outlet as me (or anyone who knows): Am I going to be popping the breaker constantly?
Is making an extension cord viable or should I go ahead with buying a generator?

I like the idea of cheaper (for obvious reasons)...
However, I don't want to sacrifice performance by taking the cheap route.
What I'm saying is I don't want to build an ext. cord, JUST to turn around & buy a generator next week...

I'm sorry for being a noob and asking for advice (when I know it's gotta be out there), but I've read contradicting thoughts for over 7 hours now, and my mind can't discern anything from anything anymore.


A noob in need,
CinRed

Gravel
04-08-2014, 03:28 PM
Ok.
I've been reading other threads and posts on here, as well as on other "electrical" sites. Now I'm more confused than I was before. :dizzy:
First off, I rent, so adding power to this house is not going to happen. Secondly, my receptacle is a NEMA 10-30
To anyone who has the same outlet as me (or anyone who knows): Am I going to be popping the breaker constantly?
Is making an extension cord viable or should I go ahead with buying a generator?

I like the idea of cheaper (for obvious reasons)...
However, I don't want to sacrifice performance by taking the cheap route.
What I'm saying is I don't want to build an ext. cord, JUST to turn around & buy a generator next week...

I'm sorry for being a noob and asking for advice (when I know it's gotta be out there), but I've read contradicting thoughts for over 7 hours now, and my mind can't discern anything from anything anymore.


A noob in need,
CinRed

Do you have a clothes dryer close enough to where you are going to be welding that you could use that outlet? It would get you 30A of 230V and would work fine for all or most of the output range of this welder. The manual says it needs a 50A breaker but it also mentions a 30A breaker. It only goes to 140A in stick mode anyway.

CinRed
04-08-2014, 05:25 PM
Do you have a clothes dryer close enough to where you are going to be welding that you could use that outlet? It would get you 30A of 230V and would work fine for all or most of the output range of this welder. The manual says it needs a 50A breaker but it also mentions a 30A breaker. It only goes to 140A in stick mode anyway.Yes sir I do.
50' would get through my garage and around to my backyard easily.
If I owned this house (or when I buy my own place) I'd put in it's own power source with industrial grade components (the right way).
I really like the prospect of having this generator: www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200484213_200484213
It has enough running watts to run a welder and other things (lights, radio, etc.) at the same time. Plus if I ever needed it for emergency use I'd have it.
But if I got it today it would eat a huge chunk of my wallet right now.
If I could hold off on buying it for 6 - 9 months that would be ideal.

Since you (and many others) say that the outlet is strong enough. I'll build a cord and put off the gen.
Thank you for the reply, reassurance and your input..!

AKweldshop
04-08-2014, 10:16 PM
Nothing more valuable than a 230v 6-50 extension cord.
I've got three of them.
A 50' a 30' and a 15'....
Best money I've ever spent.
IMVHO,
~John

CinRed
04-10-2014, 01:59 PM
Admittedly, I'm not an electrician by any sense of the word.

I just got back from H.D. with my 50' 10-3 (black) cord
My 10-30P and 6-50R
And a box with cover.
I spent 30 minutes searching then had 2 employees look with me for another 10 minutes.
The ONLY cover that even resembled the one I would need is this 689201
It's weatherproof and not what I wanted, but I bought it anyway.
I get it home and my receptacle is too large of a diameter to fit with this cover... STRIKE 1
The box I chose is a steel 1gang box. This one: 689221
I opened it up because I figured; "I'll get a cover for it later. I just want to get it done".
The box is too shallow for my receptacle This: 689231 by at least 3/32", closer to 1/8". STRIKE 2

So I'm heading back to (a different) H.D. to return the box and cover and hopefully find something usable.

wb4rt
04-10-2014, 03:11 PM
Hello, CinRed.
The receptacle is correct. I made my extension cord using that same one. You need a 4" square deep box, looks like a double gang but made for this. I think it is Raco 2-Gang 42 cu. in. Deep Square Box. The cover will be a big square. They come with 2 different size holes so be sure you get the one with the big hole. Raco 1-Gang 30 - 50 Amp Square Receptacle Cover. Don't forget you will need a retainer.

The hard part is getting the big wire to fit in ok.

One other thing. Look at your plug and orient the receptacle so the welder cord runs in from one direction and the extension cord runs out the other direction. May require the SO cord to curl around in the box, but it will maximize your extension cord length. Otherwise the welder cord has to curl around and makes a mess.

=======[ [ 0 ] ========[ 0
welder - - - - - - - - - extension



not this:

--[ 0 ]
((_____________[ 0 (sorry, best picture I could come up with)

pin2hot
04-10-2014, 03:26 PM
maybe one of these (http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?urlRequestType=Base&catalogId=10051&storeId=10151&productId=13908&langId=-1&errorViewName=ProductDisplayErrorView&categoryId=&parent_category_rn=&top_category=&urlLangId=&cm_vc=-10005)? It says wall receptacle, but looks like what I'd want, anyway.

Gravel
04-10-2014, 05:39 PM
maybe one of these (http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?urlRequestType=Base&catalogId=10051&storeId=10151&productId=13908&langId=-1&errorViewName=ProductDisplayErrorView&categoryId=&parent_category_rn=&top_category=&urlLangId=&cm_vc=-10005)? It says wall receptacle, but looks like what I'd want, anyway.

Looks like those are no longer made. I looked at a few different online stores and none of them have any. I'd like to have a couple...

mad welder 4
04-10-2014, 06:32 PM
Admittedly, I'm not an electrician by any sense of the word.

I just got back from H.D. with my 50' 10-3 (black) cord
My 10-30P and 6-50R
And a box with cover.
I spent 30 minutes searching then had 2 employees look with me for another 10 minutes.
The ONLY cover that even resembled the one I would need is this 689201
It's weatherproof and not what I wanted, but I bought it anyway.
I get it home and my receptacle is too large of a diameter to fit with this cover... STRIKE 1
The box I chose is a steel 1gang box. This one: 689221
I opened it up because I figured; "I'll get a cover for it later. I just want to get it done".
The box is too shallow for my receptacle This: 689231 by at least 3/32", closer to 1/8". STRIKE 2

So I'm heading back to (a different) H.D. to return the box and cover and hopefully find something usable.

For my 240volt extension cords I just use handy boxs for the receptacle ends, but it never rains here. If it rains I throw every thing in the garage and take a break.
I have a sub panel out side, with a 240 volt plug hanging off it and a handy box wont cut it out side. So I have to have a weather resistant box and cover for the 240 volt receptacle.

To make a out door receptacle box fit a 240 volt plug you have to find a way to fit receptacle set on top of the box cover.
When you put together a normal out door receptacle set with a 110 volt switch or receptacle you sandwich the receptacle between the box and cover. But because 240 volt receptacles are so deep that wont work, so you have to put the receptacle on to of the base of the cover.
Plus you have to widen the cover.
I used stuff from lowes to make it.

CinRed
04-10-2014, 10:53 PM
Hello, CinRed.
The receptacle is correct. I made my extension cord using that same one. You need a 4" square deep box,

Don't forget you will need a retainer.Thanks for the info.
I had already went and got my stuff before I read your post.
I actually realized I needed a retainer while I was typing that last msg. :blush:
However, I seen your post before I put it together.

Thanks for the advice on running the cord concurrently... :drinkup:


Looks like those are no longer made. I looked at a few different online stores and none of them have any. I'd like to have a couple...x2


Again, thanks to everyone that posted useful info in this thread and to those that took the time to help me.
After I got done, I did a quick test and am proud to say; "I did it right." Woo-Hoo

Here's some pics for those that LOOOOVE 'em (y'all know who you are LoL)
Here's the inside of my receptacle:
689831


Here's my finished receptacle:
689811
689821



Here's the box and cover I chose:
689841
689851

mad welder 4
04-10-2014, 11:48 PM
I thought you really wanted something with a cover.
I used a deep box forymy actual out door 240 volt out lets, but the back of the receptacle just about sits against the back of the "deep" metal box if you put the receptacle between the box and cover. I dont like the fact that the receptacle almost touches the back of its metal enclosure if you put it together the right way.

deadblowhammer
04-26-2014, 08:52 AM
Hi. Just thought I would give you my two cents. The hardwood flooring guys I work with use big 220 volt sanders. When they go from house to house there are only the dryer and stove plugs available. What they've done is to replace the one factory end with a dryer plug. However, they cut the "L" shaped neutral prong right off since they don't need it. Then the plug will fit both dryer and stove receptacles. Cheers.

mad welder 4
04-26-2014, 06:48 PM
No you dont cut the ground/neutral prong off.
You can grind the L prong on a 30 amp plug down to fit a 50 amp receptacle. No its not the right thing to do but it beats the heck out of breaking it off.
I dont worry about the L prong modification since all the new housing on base in misawa had all 10-50r installed for all the 220v plugs which was fine for the electric ranges, but the new U.S. made clothes driers they orded had 10-30p on them. So the L prong was ground down to fit the 50 amp plugs. This was done in hundreds of homes and never caused a single problem over many years.
Because in japan what we know as a 10-50 is a 30 amp plug over there, something was lost in translation some where.

A/C Guy
04-26-2014, 11:30 PM
After so many redundant questions and posts, I figured I would make myself a cord for my TIG, in turn, making a "how to" for this section.

I hope this is correct, any electrical gurus please chime in. :)

The purchase: Home Depot 10/3 50ft. extension cord, NEMA 6-50P plug, NEMA 6-50R receptacle. ....

I didn't read all the other posts, but I did not see anyone point out that you NEVER use a #10 cord for a 50 Amp extension or circuit of any kind.
#10 is rated to 30 amps MAX.

-dirt-
04-27-2014, 02:01 AM
Fairly certain my Hobart 210MVP comes from the factory with a #10 power cord. And it has a 50 amp plug on it.

Also NEC allows smaller gauge wire for a dedicated welding circuit.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Broccoli1
04-27-2014, 01:10 PM
I didn't read all the other posts, but I did not see anyone point out that you NEVER use a #10 cord for a 50 Amp extension or circuit of any kind.
#10 is rated to 30 amps MAX.
A/C,

As mentioned the smaller wire/cord can be used because the welding machines are not a continuous load.
This doesn't apply to every machine out there because there are machines with 100% duty cycle but those machines are usually hard wired anyway- they do not come from the factory with a molded connector on the power cord.

If you look at any machine that comes with the standard 6-50 connector you can bet the wires in the cord are #8 or smaller
depends on the duty cycle of the machine.
That's why the pre-made welder extension cords are #8 wire.

The MM 252 manual has #8 wire and a 50amp CB which usually requires #6 but due to the duty cycle the #8 wire is allowed.

mad welder 4
04-27-2014, 02:48 PM
I didn't read all the other posts, but I did not see anyone point out that you NEVER use a #10 cord for a 50 Amp extension or circuit of any kind.
#10 is rated to 30 amps MAX.

You can use 10ga for a 50 amp cord but it can not be used for continuous loading. You would have to mark it or lable it some how that its for intermitant welding machine use only.
I make all my cords for continuous duty. Since I may run more than 1 machine off a single 220 cord.

jimcolt
04-27-2014, 03:53 PM
You can push a short length of 8awg to 50 amps at low duty, but I sure wouldn't recommend 10 awg. The cord will build heat.....as the result of high resistance due to passing too much current (amperage) through small conductors. Heat is one result, low voltage to the equipment is the other. The longer the length....the more drop in voltage. Depending on what type of eqyuipment you are running with the cord....serious damage can occur.

The whole reason that amperage and wire gauges and other wiring specs were developed was for safety and proper equipment operation. Using conductors that are too small to save a few bucks defies the sound engineering principals that we have for electrical connections. I strongly suggest that you build cords properly.....or buy them suitably designed for the task.

Jim Colt Hypertherm



You can use 10ga for a 50 amp cord but it can not be used for continuous loading. You would have to mark it or lable it some how that its for intermitant welding machine use only.
I make all my cords for continuous duty. Since I may run more than 1 machine off a single 220 cord.

mad welder 4
04-27-2014, 06:17 PM
When I picked up my 240volt craftsman arc welder it had a 33 foot long 12ga power cable installed on it for the last 10 or 20 years.
I chopped of both ends of that 33ft of 12ga so cable and repurposed it as a proper 20 amp 120v extension cord.
If a 12ga cable lasted 10 or 20 years on an arc welder that should be plugged into a circuit on a 60 amp breaker then a 10ga cable shouldn't suffer an immediate catastrophic failure.

almac
04-27-2014, 07:14 PM
thanks for this thread.
after doing some research, I found its about the same to buy a cord already made than to make one of my own.

A/C Guy
05-01-2014, 11:38 AM
:nono:
A/C,

As mentioned the smaller wire/cord can be used because the welding machines are not a continuous load.
This doesn't apply to every machine out there because there are machines with 100% duty cycle but those machines are usually hard wired anyway- they do not come from the factory with a molded connector on the power cord.

If you look at any machine that comes with the standard 6-50 connector you can bet the wires in the cord are #8 or smaller
depends on the duty cycle of the machine.
That's why the pre-made welder extension cords are #8 wire.

The MM 252 manual has #8 wire and a 50amp CB which usually requires #6 but due to the duty cycle the #8 wire is allowed.Only for short distance factory leads.


You can push a short length of 8awg to 50 amps at low duty, but I sure wouldn't recommend 10 awg. The cord will build heat.....as the result of high resistance due to passing too much current (amperage) through small conductors. Heat is one result, low voltage to the equipment is the other. The longer the length....the more drop in voltage. Depending on what type of eqyuipment you are running with the cord....serious damage can occur.

The whole reason that amperage and wire gauges and other wiring specs were developed was for safety and proper equipment operation. Using conductors that are too small to save a few bucks defies the sound engineering principals that we have for electrical connections. I strongly suggest that you build cords properly.....or buy them suitably designed for the task.

Jim Colt HyperthermAs Jim pointed out, the reduced load cycle only applies to short distances on the factory cords, typically 8 or 10 feet. It NEVER applies to an extension cord per NEC. The voltage drop in a cord is the critical factor. The voltage drop will fry your inverter machine in a second and without warning. It is not worth saving $20 or $30 and risking ruining your welder.

Broccoli1
05-01-2014, 12:40 PM
Perhaps there is some confusion in wording- since people reference 50 amps when talking about the 6-50p that is pretty much standard on every welder and Plasma that comes with a factory connector installed EVEN those machines that only use 25, 35, 40 amps.

If yer machine draws 50amps then yes do not use 10 gauge extension cord but there is no reason to use a 6g extension cord for Hobart Handler 210, MM211, MM212.

Centraliawelder
05-01-2014, 02:12 PM
:nono:Only for short distance factory leads.

As Jim pointed out, the reduced load cycle only applies to short distances on the factory cords, typically 8 or 10 feet. It NEVER applies to an extension cord per NEC. The voltage drop in a cord is the critical factor. The voltage drop will fry your inverter machine in a second and without warning. It is not worth saving $20 or $30 and risking ruining your welder.


So if your plasma cutter/welded had pfc this wouldn't harm it?? Correct ?


Scott V.

mad welder 4
05-01-2014, 02:56 PM
A 45 amp plasma cutter is going to draw about 35 amps on average running full tilt.
My 40 amp output miller consistantly draws 30 amps running full blast. It has flashed up to 33 amps on my fluke325 but only for a brief moment.

Lets say my big craftsman draws 60 amps running at max power (it calls for a 60 amp breaker). I never use it above 165 amps unless cutting down a 5/32 inch welding rod that has flux chipped off it which takes about 2 seconds. At 165 amps of out put it draws around 40 amps.
If my 8ga power cord was 35 feet long ( its more like 32 or 33 feet) supporting a 60 amp load I would see less than a 3 volt drop.
So I am not going to worry about it.
If a 3 volt drop will fry an inverter welder then I dont want one, I dont see why any one would.
Maybe if people ran calculations, took measurements and stopped being paranoid about everything they would be saving 20 or 30 dollars here and there.

A/C Guy
05-06-2014, 12:57 AM
Perhaps there is some confusion in wording- since people reference 50 amps when talking about the 6-50p that is pretty much standard on every welder and Plasma that comes with a factory connector installed EVEN those machines that only use 25, 35, 40 amps.

If yer machine draws 50amps then yes do not use 10 gauge extension cord but there is no reason to use a 6g extension cord for Hobart Handler 210, MM211, MM212.
The confusion is because of what you are telling people is OK when the NEC says that it is not OK. The 6-50 receptical is rated to 50 amps. Therefore, by code the wiring to it must also be rated for 50 amps, the breaker also must be 50 amps.
You are incorrectly telling people that it is alright to use a #10 extension cord with 6-50 ends. That is against the NEC
Since the receptical in the wall is a 6-50 and is serviced by a #6 wire and protected by a 50 amp breaker, why would you connect a #10 extension cord that is only rated for 30 amps?

A/C Guy
05-06-2014, 12:58 AM
So if your plasma cutter/welded had pfc this wouldn't harm it?? Correct ?


Scott V.

What is pfc?

A/C Guy
05-06-2014, 01:03 AM
If my 8ga power cord was 35 feet long ( its more like 32 or 33 feet) supporting a 60 amp load I would see less than a 3 volt drop.
So I am not going to worry about it.
If a 3 volt drop will fry an inverter welder then I dont want one, I dont see why any one would.
#8 wire is rated for 40 amps and you said that you were only drawing 33 amps, so what is your point?
The original post of this thread was advocating to use #10 wire with a 6-50 plug and receptical; that is unsafe and you will see more than a 3 volt drop if your welder tries to draw it's max current through a #10 extension.

Why argue the point when a manufacturer posted above that what you are advocating is not the right way to do it?

SquirmyPug
05-06-2014, 01:16 AM
The confusion is because of what you are telling people is OK when the NEC says that it is not OK. The 6-50 receptical is rated to 50 amps. Therefore, by code the wiring to it must also be rated for 50 amps, the breaker also must be 50 amps.
You are incorrectly telling people that it is alright to use a #10 extension cord with 6-50 ends. That is against the NEC
Since the receptical in the wall is a 6-50 and is serviced by a #6 wire and protected by a 50 amp breaker, why would you connect a #10 extension cord that is only rated for 30 amps?

I'm not an electrician, don't know all the rules they have to follow. Why would a 6-50r/p require use of a breaker/wiring that can handle 50 amps? Lots of things have 6-50P on them with smaller gauge cords.

If a breaker and wires are rated for 50 amps, then I see why you would need a receptacle rated for the same or more. But I don't see why it would be the other way around.

As for the extension cord, you don't always need the full potential of the circuit to run something.


The voltage drop will fry your inverter machine in a second and without warning. It is not worth saving $20 or $30 and risking ruining your welder.

Lots of inverters are made so that they can handle +-10% listed operating voltage.

A/C Guy
05-06-2014, 01:31 AM
I'm not an electrician, don't know all the rules they have to follow. Why would a 6-50r/p require use of a breaker/wiring that can handle 50 amps? Because the Code book, NEC requires the breaker and wires to be 50 amps.


Lots of things have 6-50P on them with smaller gauge cords. It is the manufacturer's responsibility to verify that their product is safe with that plug.


If a breaker and wires are rated for 50 amps, then I see why you would need a receptacle rated for the same or more. But I don't see why it would be the other way around.All recepticals have a rating and the wiring to it and the breaker MUST be of the same rating. National Electrical Code requirements….

Sandy
05-06-2014, 01:53 AM
There are allowances in the NEC for circuits specific to welding equipment.

This may have shifted a bit in the latest version of the NEC but it will still be in there.

mad welder 4
05-06-2014, 03:27 AM
What is pfc?

Power factor correction.
Running a low power factor will cause you to need heavier wiring, flip breakers and run up your power bill.
Correcting power factor can make your machines up to 1/3 more efficient.

mad welder 4
05-06-2014, 03:38 AM
#8 wire is rated for 40 amps and you said that you were only drawing 33 amps, so what is your point?
The original post of this thread was advocating to use #10 wire with a 6-50 plug and receptical; that is unsafe and you will see more than a 3 volt drop if your welder tries to draw it's max current through a #10 extension.

Why argue the point when a manufacturer posted above that what you are advocating is not the right way to do it?

I guarantee a 10 gauge conductor will see more than a 3 volt drop at 35 feet at 50 amps. I was talking about an 8ga cord with a 60 amp load only dropping 3 volts at that distance.
I also have the stick welder, it draws up to 60 amps.

A/C Guy
05-07-2014, 08:51 PM
There are allowances in the NEC for circuits specific to welding equipment.

This may have shifted a bit in the latest version of the NEC but it will still be in there.


That is for the cord that is permantly attached to the welder, not an extension cord. It also applies to hard wired circuits where the welder is the only load and hard wired to the breaker. It does not apply to recepticals and extension cords.

Broccoli1
05-08-2014, 02:24 AM
That is for the cord that is permantly attached to the welder, not an extension cord. It also applies to hard wired circuits where the welder is the only load and hard wired to the breaker. It does not apply to recepticals and extension cords.

It does apply to receptacles*- Miller uses the guidelines in all their manuals for machines that come with a 6-50 connector.

*Dedicated receptacles.

Gravel
05-08-2014, 03:09 AM
Here is the common sense version of the bottom line which i believe is the thought behind the NEC reg.
If you make an extension cord with 50A rated ends and wire that can't handle that load it will eventually be used for something that uses the full 50A and will burn. (Made this cord for my 180A MIG welder but now I'm going to use it for my 225A stick welder because the ends are the right kind.)
A dedicated whip that has, for instance, a 30A breaker with 10 ga wire and a 50A receptacle is not going to burn because the breaker will protect the wire due to them matching. When you overload the circuit, the breaker trips before you exceed the wire rating.

Let me know if you don't understand this and I'll try to explain it better/different.

UKfan
05-15-2014, 09:31 PM
just incase i need to dry clothes, cook or weld in the yard....

mad welder 4
05-15-2014, 10:59 PM
I need to make something like that with two 10-30 receptacles.

Sandy
05-15-2014, 11:37 PM
just incase i need to dry clothes, cook or weld in the yard....

Needs some kind of wire bail and/or velcro strap on that back board so you can loop the cord up and carry it all as one nice bundle with that handy dandy handle you put on there. :)

mad welder 4
05-16-2014, 02:38 PM
Needs some kind of wire bail and/or velcro strap on that back board so you can loop the cord up and carry it all as one nice bundle with that handy dandy handle you put on there. :)

Its already got a flotation device.

Willie B
05-16-2014, 11:26 PM
What's this magical 3 volt loss? If Utility power is 240 hypothetically, you use under maximum load, 5 volts in service drop, service entrance cables, feeder to garage, and welder cord, your welder is rated to work at 230 Volts you have perhaps 5 volts to spare. I've never seen a 220 welder or power source. In every case I've seen, Utility power is 240 Volt. Most of the welders I've seen are rated for 230 with a plus or minus tolerance. Some are also rated for 208. Auto line is different from auto link. Auto link does the connecting in the welder to chose connections for various supplies, Auto line compensates for variation in nominal voltage. People switch welders. A circuit installed for a Chinese Harbor Freight welder will later have a big old stick welder plugged into it. Most people expect an outlet to provide its rated amperage.

mad welder 4
05-17-2014, 01:53 AM
That 3 volt loss was for an 8ga power cable 35 feet long with a 60 amp load.

olcarguy
11-23-2014, 05:33 PM
Just wondering why you guy's don't go to your electrical supply and buy some cabtyre in the proper gauge that you need. Should be cheaper as you don't to have ends put on that you don't need. imho;)

frieed
11-23-2014, 07:12 PM
All this talk of cords an codes reminds me of a friend in his newly purchased, older home. He had a storage room off the back of the house and the light was intermittent. Pulled the fixture and he found that the light and outlet were being powered via a chunk of RG-58 coax.:eek:

Fireman Bill
11-23-2014, 08:42 PM
I run my H210 MVP on a 12gauge 30ft extension cord. Per the manual 12 gauge is ok. Dont forget that stranded wire will carry more amperage because there is more surface area for it to travel. The current travels on the outer diameter of each strand. I have a #8 gauge cord at work on a MM211 and hate dragging it out.

Willie B
11-24-2014, 09:41 AM
It's farmer mentality. All farmers are gamblers. Every day they gamble on something. They are addicted to gambling. Safety is the opponent of gambling. Farmers like to outsmart the "system" If something works, works well, and is safe, a farmer NEEDSto improve on it. The best way to improve on this is to make it less safe, and, or cheaper. If nobody gets killed, they outsmarted the system. If somebody does get killed, that was the chance they took. The philosophy is most often demonstrated in underground conduit. An electrician can place a given conduit in a ditch in two hours, it will last a century. A farmer can place a black plastic water line in a shallow ditch, cover it in rock, bring the ends out of the ground a few feet short of its destination, not quite horizontal. He then calls the electrician, who is then faced with the dilemma of making this situation work in violation of every safety rule in the book. Ultimately, materials cost a little more than doing it right. The electrician spends all day making it work, charges more, adding a PITA factor to his bill. For a time, it works, it is hazardous, it looks like snit hit with a club! The farmer is pleased with himself! He just outsmarted the system! If he manages to sell this mess to an unwitting victim it is the equipment of making a Superbowl field goal!

In a sped up way, it's an evolutionary process. The good gamblers will live on to procreate, the bad ones will either castrate themselves, or kill themselves before procreating, passing bad gambler genes on to a new generation. The process might take hundreds of years instead of thousands. Meanwhile, the rest of us will occasionally fall victim to these people.

sparkness
11-24-2014, 10:38 AM
SJ rated 10gauge and a compact plastic box

915051

bigb
11-24-2014, 07:38 PM
SJ rated 10gauge and a compact plastic box

915051


I like that. Those PVC boxes are fairly rugged and non conductive as well.

sparkness
11-24-2014, 08:16 PM
I had to drill the hole in a blank cover to make this drilled it with a single point adjustable drill in a drill press