question about welder certification

[RFokeeFL]

I am considering starting a small welding business and want to advertise. do you have to be certified to be able to advertise? Also, How do you get to be certified?:confused:

[WelderBoy]

You won't get as much business if you aren't certified. Get certified. Small investment to give the piece of mind to your customers that you know what you are doing.

There are many places that certify. Community colleges are a good place to go. The instructor will usually want to see you weld before you sign up for the class. If he feels comfortable you sign up, pay tuition, take the test and that's it.

What you will be welding, and with what process?

You will also need a business license and specialty contractor's license.

[DDA52]

I run a mobile/shop business and I am not currently holding any valid certs. They got to be too much of a pain to keep up...esp since I was never needing to use them! I think I may have had to show paper once in 10 years. Plenty of stuff to do without needing all the wallpaper to start out with. I'd say either get one structural cert if you must, but if it were me, I'd get my feet wet and see what was coming my way before I spent a bundle on a bunch of tests and papers I would maybe not ever need. I could get as many rails and fixtures that I could handle if I put my mind to it...no papers needed for that stuff. There can even be good money in it.

As to the licensing, I don't need any of that stuff to be legal. It all depends on where you are as to what you will need. State rules/laws vary wildly, so that one will be best left to those in your state.

[tapwelder]

You do not need certification to advertise in TN. Depending on what you want to do, it might not be worth getting certified. I have been in business for almost 8yrs and only once have I been ask for certs.

If you find you don't need certs, then you can concentrate yours funds on insurance and licenses and taxes.

Good luck with your business.

DDA52 beat me to the post. I definitely agree with getting you feet wet... Here you don't need a license until you make a certain amount of money. I have always had a contractors license and paid taxes, for my peace of mind.

[WelderBoy]

If you ever get called out to weld structural as a subcontractor on a construction site they will most likely (if they aren't stupid) ask for certifications. It helps cover their *** if something goes wrong with your welds. Many times contractors subcontract little welding businesses to do little jobs like fixing a broken forklift boom or something, so keep that in mind. You can lose business by not getting certified.

[DDA52]

If you ever get called out to weld structural as a subcontractor on a construction site they will most likely (if they aren't stupid) ask for certifications. It helps cover their *** if something goes wrong with your welds. Many times contractors subcontract little welding businesses to do little jobs like fixing a broken forklift boom or something, so keep that in mind. You can lose business by not getting certified.

Yes, but when just starting out, people won't be calling right away for that stuff unless you know somebody...or have pictures.:eek: :laugh: You have to get the feets wet and the name out there before that kind of stuff will start coming in. Besides, there is more welding out there that is non cert on jobsites that can be done. My shop has been official since '85 and I have had only one job, maybe two, since then that would let me use my own cert. Many, many contractors want their own people to do the testing. I had paper when I did the LTV structural and sheetmetal, but they insisted I get recerted by the Navy inspector onsite before I could fire up a rod. After years of that kind of reaction, I stopped re-upping my papers. If they want you tested on certain jobs, they will get you tested in house.....sometimes. IMO, that is the kind of stuff to avoid right out of the gate. The paperwork, ins, and bull that goes with it can overwhelm you quickly. It is much easier to start small and build up as you go. Get what you need as you need it ...or if. Liquid funds at start up don't last very long and it may be a good while before more come in doing work like that. Commercial sub work is usually paid at 30 days as a rule. Spend a grand on stuff you don't need and you may get a little hungry later. I'm just saying, having been there already.

One example I can think of.....A company wanted precast welders with papers. At the time I had a 1" all posit cert. THEY wanted 1.5" certs even though every single plate was only 3/8. It was company policy and there were to be zero exceptions. They would have retested me on my nickel, but I didn't see the point. I turned down that 200 buck test and found more work than I could handle a day later that required no cert. at all. That type of work lasted nearly three years. Of course all of this really depends on what you really want to try for and actually end up doing. Without knowing that, all this discussion is really just an excercise in "what if".

[WelderBoy]

I stopped re-upping my papers.


In washington you just need to be welding that process for a certain amount of time within the previous year and you can re-up your certs by getting a boss to sign some paperwork and send them into WABO, the place the handles the certs. In the case you are your own boss, you should be able to sign your own papers. And it's free.

The way I look at it, you should get certified anyways. If you can't pass the certification test, you shouldn't be welding that process in the field. Should at least get structural in the process you use. At least once. Even if you think your welds are good, the destructive test is unforgiving and can point out improper welding techniques leading to cracking in the HAZ or the weld itself.

[DDA52]

Even in Wash, the pipe boys are re-upping at 6 months as are military and some aerospace. ( I haven't seen it, but was told by one aerospace weldor, some exotics had to be tested monthly.) That is the standards set by the specific codes. It all just depends on the type of job and the conformance code it has to be within. Without input on exactly what he will be doing, all of this is just academic.


I agree, getting some testing done will improve the skills and ID problem areas. I just don't like the idea of shelling out a few hundred bucks, pass or fail, just to see how I am doing. I can do that on my own in the shop.

[WelderBoy]

I agree, getting some testing done will improve the skills and ID problem areas. I just don't like the idea of shelling out a few hundred bucks, pass or fail, just to see how I am doing. I can do that on my own in the shop.

Too many people out there are running welding businesses when they really shouldn't be. I am trying to encourage this so we don't have more welding businesses out there like so many out there. And you know what I am talking about. Welding is nothing to take lightly and many if not most jobs require welds that if failed can hurt or kill. And if not can cost a person or business a LOT more money in the long run to fix again. Too many people out there say "It isn't pretty, but it is strong". Usually, those welds have too many flaws to count. Even ones that look good to a guy in his shop may have hidden defects that can cause a failure. I am not doubting your skills as a welder DDA52, so don't get me wrong. I am stating this as a general comment to anybody out there.

[DDA52]

WB, in looking back at this, I am not really disagreeing with you. You are making good points and it may be exactly the avenue he needs to be on. MY point is this one....the "just starting out" point. When you start out, there is really no way of telling what you will be doing down the road. Stuff changes all the time. I went from high rise structural to precast and tiltwall to commercial drywall studs and sheet metal. I ended up welding 16 ga studs for 10 years straight almost...had no idea that was going to happen. Now, I am doing something completely different in the metal world once again. Everything from truck frames, metal buildings, tractor frames, buckets and hand rails. Misc metals work at its best and worst. Take that as easy stuff and crap work.:rolleyes:

Until one finds a niche and gets established, it would be unwise to dump a ton of money on something he may not actually need. Getting the one structural cert might not be a bad idea. One won't break the bank, but then it may not be what is needed down the line either. I guess I am looking at the bottom line aspect first, the work second. I have been on the cup a soup and spaghettios diet for lack of funds. I tend to watch the money a lot closer after that miserable few months.

Breaking into a market on your own can be one of the toughest nuts to crack. It will take time to get the ducks in a row and get the word out. That is something a lot of guys don't take into consideration. They expect to be up to the eyeballs as soon as the first set of cards go out. It doesn't work that way. I have also seen a lot of people fail as a result. I was nearly one of them several times. I nearly failed everytime I put all my effort into one pursuit. When I would be diverse in my offerings or pursuits, that is when I did much better. Now, diversity is my middle name practically. Took my lumps learning that one.

[WelderBoy]

I am currently starting a mobile business as we speak. It is overwhelming and very expensive. I am trying to take the most professional and safest route no matter the costs and I guess I expected others to do the same. You are right about the money issue. It's hard to decide where to prioritize your current funds at hand.

With that said, i'll sign out of this thread. It's strayed too far off. :D g'night

[olddad]

Just a quick opinion here. If you're doing a cert that only requires a controled bend then you're wasting your money. They are too easy to pass and therefore don't carry much weight. If you bid a job with any serious welding they will require a test of their own or at a facility of their choosing.

You've heard the old "been there done that"...well Don has, listen to him.

[WelderBoy]

Just a quick opinion here. If you're doing a cert that only requires a controled bend then you're wasting your money. They are too easy to pass and therefore don't carry much weight. If you bid a job with any serious welding they will require a test of their own or at a facility of their choosing.

You've heard the old "been there done that"...well Don has, listen to him.

Yes there is more to a test than just a controlled bend. My state certification structural coupons were bent and chopped up and visually inspected for fusion, inclusions, and undercut. Mine weren't X-rayed, but as stated in another thread today, it isn't as common as the destructive test. However I have had x-ray tests done on coupons for preemployment to meet coast guard standards on the job.

I'm listening. But to each his own, especially with running a business.

[olddad]

But to each his own, especially with running a business.

Ain't that a fact, I'd rather learn from someone else's mistakes.

[WelderBoy]

Ain't that a fact, I'd rather learn from someone else's mistakes.

Ok, I don't know where you are getting at but you are really starting to push on this so cut it out.

[littlefuzz]

I'm with DDA52, see what kinda business you're going to be getting before spending the money. IMO the certs. don't mean sh!t. I've seen to many guys come through the shop that were certified and I wound up firing them because their stuff would fall apart or it looked like a chicken was roosting above their table. My .02

[ZTFab]

Ok, I don't know where you are getting at but you are really starting to push on this so cut it out.


I don't think olddad was trying to push your buttons with that one...then again, maybe he was.

Either way, don't take what folks like olddad and DDA have to say lightly. They've been around the block a time or two and are just trying to make the things that were very tough on them a little easier to others.

There is a difference between knowledge and wisdom.

You may have heard this, you may not.

Two bulls are sitting on a hill looking down at some cattle. One is an older bull, the other is a young bull.

The young Bull says to the old Bull, "Let's run down the hill and **** one of those cows!!"

The old bull looks at him and says, "Why not walk down the hill and **** them all?"

- Paul

[WelderBoy]

I don't think olddad was trying to push your buttons with that one...then again, maybe he was.

Either way, don't take what folks like olddad and DDA have to say lightly. They've been around the block a time or two and are just trying to make the things that were very tough on them a little easier to others.

There is a difference between knowledge and wisdom.


Ok, I am not doubting anybody's knowledge, wisdom, experience, or anything. So I don't know why anybody would think that. I am getting told the "listen to him, he knows what he is talking about" deal like I am arguing or doubting DDA52's word. I never doubted anybody or argued. I was giving my experience just as he was and as far as I remember I was doing it very politely and open to other people's suggestions as well.

[DDA52]

WB, as far as I am concerned, you were not arguing. Just putting out a differing opinion. Fine by me. That is how people learn, by talking and being respectful, which I thought you pretty much were. We do not have to agree all the time. That is what makes it interesting. Don't feel like I was getting after you or thought I was doing anything other than discussing the topic.:) :waving:


Here is maybe the crux of it....I was looking at the business end, you were looking at the work end. Both are vital and valid points and both come into play in this instance. It is the mixture of the two that will save or sink you. Anyone can do the work, that is not the issue. Not everyone can do the business end. Not everyone thinks about the business end, esp at first. It is something that must be learned at all costs, though. The world can be a cruel place and will eat you up quickly if you aren't paying attention. That is where I was coming from. It takes years to learn how to do it .....and then, you still get taught lessons now and again.:cry:

[olddad]

I'll try to go easier on the youngster. But WelderBoy, if you're having a problem with me you're REALLY going to have trouble with some of your customers. Starting out it won't be a matter of choosing who you work for, you'll do the job to survive.

[WelderBoy]

I'll try to go easier on the youngster. But WelderBoy, if you're having a problem with me you're REALLY going to have trouble with some of your customers. Starting out it won't be a matter of choosing who you work for, you'll do the job to survive.

Well good thing you aren't my customer. And i'm sure glad I asked you for all this random advice you are giving me.

[ZTFab]

I have a feeling that I may have helped to throw this thread off track.

Let's try to keep it on topic.

RFokeeFL....I have been in business for 5 years and have never been certified. you don't need to be certified to be a weldor or a welding business.

As DDA52 pointed out, it depends on the type of business/customers that you want.

- Paul

[zapster]

I'm seeing alot of "Myself" in this thread..:eek:

Thats why "Myself" will just watch..:cool:

Being "Myself"..:jester:

...zap!

[12,000 Doors]

I'm only inhouse certified from my day job and my side business is two years old. They've been testing our welds every other year for the whole 18 years I've been there by pulling them apart. I almost always get the high score in the plant and it really ****es of my supervisors that I beat them and they always whine about how it must be because I cheated some way or another. 690 pounds passes and in 94' I got 1430. This year I got over 1600. Two days ago was the first time a guy asked what kind of certs I had because he wants me to stick weld steam pipe. Everybody's got to start somewhere sometime and he said he'll give me a shot. I'll muddle through.

[sn0border88]

I dont have much experience in the field, but my boss who has been running his own shop for many years now was only once certified for a pipe job that came in. He found a nitch making stainless steel coolant tubes, and along with the other work that comes in he's making out very well. He never re-upped for the certification, but is more than capable of passing the tests, there is just no reason to.

That being said, after I complete school, or as I am completing I plan on going for some certification tests to help lend credibility to prospective employers. If I keep them up after that, who knows. I guess it will all depend on what fields I end up getting into.

[olddad]

Well good thing you aren't my customer. And i'm sure glad I asked you for all this random advice you are giving me.
>>"And i'm sure glad I asked you for all this random advice you are giving me."<< Edited this in half hour after your post ? That ain't playin' fair :nono: :laugh:
Whether you asked or not doesn't matter, it's difficult to avoid someone with 664 posts in only 3 months since joining. :waving:

[lewray]

get an AWS d1.1 structual all position with your WPS on it..."WELDING PROCEDURE SPECIFICATION" and have it X-rayed

Thats a decent start

>LewRay

[WelderBoy]

Edited this in half hour after your post ? That ain't playin' fair :nono: :laugh:
Whether you asked or not doesn't matter, it's difficult to avoid someone with 664 posts in only 3 months since joining. :waving:

Who cares if it was edited and who cares how many posts I have or when I joined? Whether I have 1 post or 10,000 posts or been here one day or 3 years. It doesn't matter. You know how you are acting. And you know why you are doing it. No wonder you labeled yourself a "grumpy old man" in your profile. I don't want to make a huge argument over this so just do me a favor and just don't reply to my posts anymore. :rolleyes:

[ZTFab]

WelderBoy and Olddad....take it to pm's.

KEEP IT ON TOPIC.

- Paul

[olddad]

I am considering starting a small welding business and want to advertise. do you have to be certified to be able to advertise? Also, How do you get to be certified?:confused:
As has already been pointed out in this tread by some guys that have already gone through the "starting a business learning curve", it's not neccessary to be certed.
As for how to get certed if/or when you choose, check the colleges starting with the nearest first, some can do this for you and others might be wasting your time. Not all college welding programs have the ability to do certs, best to check up front first. Also check LWS in your area, some have the ability to do certs also. I have 2 LWS, one offers this service and the other doesn't, worth checking in your area.

[mwccwi]

look here a phone call could help
http://files.aws.org/certification/docs/cert0531.pdf

[packeteer]

I find iinteresting that Welderboy pushes certs then recommends doing repairs to forklifts that violate ANSI standards and break OSHA rules!

Those devices, actually all lift equipment cannot be welded on without the express written consent of the manufacturer(s).

We have several fab/repair facilities at work, staffed purely with certified weldors and cannot do welding repairs our own equipment. Manufacturers will NOT allow it.

The recommendation of small jobs ie railings, fences, tractor bucket etc. is perfect for somone starting out. That is the BS I turn down regularly, and no certs needed..

I've found well paying (side) work that I can do mostly on MY schedule for people I like working for, and I still don't need the certs. I've got the talent experience and training to pass most tests, just not the ambition!
My regular job pays WAY better than this Hobby.

If you want to do the structural and certified work, don't forget to buy LOTS of insurance to go with it (these are definate turn-down jobs for me).

I have friends that started small this way, became "traveling" pipe weldors and now own fab shops. They won't do small portable work anymore either.

I say keep it small at first, in my area you need business licenses for each town you work in so check out that part.
When you are comfortable enough to take on the big work, get the cert and insurance and remember you will be working for the contractor, the inspector, the client and especially the insurance company!!

Good luck....

[heimbuckwelding]

Damn you guys sure like to fight on here i thought this was a place to learn skills and talk like adults but so far all i have seen is a bunch of adults acting like they are 15 again next time just awnser someones question and stick to your own bussiness .........Heimbuck Welding

[lewray]

Just a quick opinion here. If you're doing a cert that only requires a controled bend then you're wasting your money. They are too easy to pass and therefore don't carry much weight. If you bid a job with any serious welding they will require a test of their own or at a facility of their choosing.

You've heard the old "been there done that"...well Don has, listen to him.

Bingo ...

Last week a guy wanted papers for 6" pipe SMAW 1/8 6010 w/ 7018 cap told him sure thing I'll get a WPS wrote up and we'll talk about a bid.

[bob_jones40]

how about in philly im in the sheet metal union and i want to get get my stainless steel welding cert anyone know what the cert is called and what the test encompases

[gorillawelder]

No you do not have to be certified to weld but it helps to bring in business by showing them you can weld. I know you cannot weld on ASEM vassal without being certified. The cost of getting certified is small compared to the cost of rework and job delays. Check with your local collage or trade school they my do testing without taking the class, make sure you can pass each time you take the test it will cost you. If not look for a testing company in your city that you send your test part to, but first know what you want to certify in It’s all different then ask them what books you would need for writing procedures. I could help with ASME code PQR WPS WPQs if that’s what you need you would still need a testing company.

[bob_jones40]

do u know the name of the cert to weld 16 gauge stainless and thicker

[gorillawelder]

You may want to ask your union rep for the welding procedures for welding stainless they should have everything you need to take the test. we don't name are welding procedures we number them. If your trying to test on your own you Will need to make a procedure and have it tested if it passes you will be certified. I'ts a lot of paper work. I hope this answer's your question.

[abraham]

I realy am totally non bias here, but it sure seems welderboy is the grumpy angry one. Just my opinion, but I am calling it the way we all see it, and I think you got your answer long ago. Question answered/thread over.:gunsfirin

[Fitshipper]

The 'certs' won't matter until you end up in court. A particular guy employed non-certified welders. One of their welds broke on a trailer while on the highway. He lost everything b e c a u s e they had no certs.
A knowledgeable insurance agent will ask if you have 'certs', education and how many years experience before giving you a quote.