HTP Invertig 201

[BurnThru]

Was initially looking at Thermal Arc AM 185, but have kind of settled on the HTP Invertig 201. Compared Lincoln PT 225 and Miller SW 200 to these and although the transformers are less expensive, it seems like the inverters consume less power and have just as good or better duty cycles. The protability just adds to their appeal.

I get the feeling the Invertig might be more well-built that the AM 185 since it is almost 70 lbs vs. just under 40 for the TA. Looking for any feedback that anyone can provide.

Thanks

[383bigblock]

I purchased the Invertig 201 and it was a great machine (I since sold it because I needed MIG more than TIG) it was well built and the controls were nice. It looked more difficult to adjust than it was and you get everything with it, foot pedal, Gas regulator, torch, etc. It was a fine machine and if I decide to get back into TIG'n I would buy another one without any reservations. The people at HTP were really nice whenever I called and were easy to work with.

Michael

[papasloan]

I have the Invertig 201 and like it a lot. I upgraded from the 160dc. The 201 does everything I need it to do.
If you are going to do any welding over 120 amps get the water cooler along with it. I purchased the cooler afterwards, what a difference. Torch stays a lot cooler.
The hoses on the water cooler are very flexible which makes it more comfortable to use than other water cooled torches.
Jeff at HTP is great to deal with. Had absolutely no problems It even arrived 2 days early.

[mccutter]

I too, am looking at the TA185 vs the HTP201. Why did you settle on the HTP? For $1900 to my door, including ALL the accessories, I'm having a hard time justifying anything more expensive such as a Dynasty 200 w/Contractor kit. The Miller is about $1300 more!

So back to the HTP: What makes it worth $600 more (to my door) than the Thermal Arc? (aside from slightly higher amps and weight)

PS: I'd rather take the money saved and buy a water cooler and torch...

[flatliner]

For me it's customer service. I was a c-hair away from the Thermal Arc 185 from Indiana Oxygen then the seller (eBay) for IOC gave me a ration of sh** over the phone when I asked some technical questions. Right there I said, well d***head you just screwed the pooch. I immediately turned my attention and resources to HTP and haven't regretted a thing. Good Luck! Oh and I think the TA/185 is plastic(?)!:nono:

[mccutter]

For me it's customer service. I was a c-hair away from the Thermal Arc 185 from Indiana Oxygen then the seller (eBay) for IOC gave me a ration of sh** over the phone when I asked some technical questions. Right there I said, well d***head you just screwed the pooch. I immediately turned my attention and resources to HTP and haven't regretted a thing. Good Luck!

I bought a Tig185 from them (IOC) about two years ago (since sold) and I didn't have any issues--and I ask the tough questions! And delivery via freight was within the week! Spoke to Bill K. and he was helpful and knowledgeable--I doubt he is who you spoke to... I also spoke to him recently regarding the TA185 and he had nothing but praise for it for the price. He said they have sold thousands of them and I haven't seen any used on Ebay so I'll assume they were sold to happy customers.

Based on your recommendation, I'll give HTP a call Monday. They'll have to justify why their machine is worth $600 more than the TA185. Am I correct that they are both made in Italy? In their defense there were no used HTP201s on Ebay so that is a good thing.

I'd still like to hear from some other metal melters on these machines...

Oh and I think the TA/185 is plastic(?)!:nono:

My PassPort is plastic--is that bad? ;)

[flatliner]

I was just telling a fellow welder my experience. If you're in love with IOC and whomever you talked to, I wish you much good fortune. Likewise, I hope life gives you all that you deserve. About one out of ten people on this site are ate up with their opinions...I need a break from weldingweb. Personally, having shot many rounds through my Colt .45 Gold Cup I now prefer my S&W M&P .40 with 185 gr. JHP.(For stubborn jobs):gunsfirin

[Teddco]

In my experience, the HTP MSRPs are subject to negotiation. Call them and tell them what you are considering from the competition (model and price) and see if they will motivate you to buy HTP. I'm satisified with their products that I own and their service.

[runchman]

Another satisfied HTP201 owner here. I'm within driving distance of them, so that makes the decision a bit easier for me, not having to deal with shipping.

- John

[Berniep]

When I bought my 201 there were no ta 185s to be had(at least not from anyone I trusted enough to spend that kind of money on) and it looked like when they did get them they would be about the same price as the HTP unit. I called Jeff at HTP and after talking to him a while I was convinced. I have been very happy with the machine.

[mccutter]

I'd like to sincerely thank everyone that had some input on this matter! In the end, economics took the upper hand.

I ended up buying the Thermal Arc ArcMaster 185 from IOC for $1895. The price is now around $80 more. Bill K. pointed me to a webpage that still had them at the "old" price which was nice of him. With 2 boxes of cerium tungstens it came to around $1950 inc. S&H and no tax. Proceeds from the previous sale of a Synch 250 were used to buy it--I just didn't have the room in my small shop nor the immediate or anticipated need for the Synchs amps.

I did correspond with HTP about the 201 and they dropped their price $100 but it was just not enough. Prompt response and courteous service will make me consider HTP the next time. And their leads were twice as long as well as some other improvements over the 185, but not enough to overcome the difference in price. Money saved might be used to buy a cooler/torch combo when needed.

The ArcMaster 185 came in 2 boxes. One with the welder and one with accessories. The "kit" included 12' pedal, stinger, work lead, #26 torch with cover, "starter" consumable kit, connector kit and full instructions. It also came with about a 10' 10-3 power cord with NEMA 6-50 plug. Less than 5 minutes out of the box and it was welding steel and alum. no problem with the recommended pointed electrode (Cerium) and the smaller arc it produced. There are a bunch of adjustable settings I haven't had time to learn how to do. One selling point was that it was smaller and lighter than the HTP. Since this will be a bench or wall mount unit, that will be an advantage and larger cables are just harder to store. The plastic case was well-molded and the welder itself was made in Japan.

PS: one issue was that the 185 accessory kit did not include a long back cap--just the short one.

Although I would have liked to see the two welders side by each and used them before I bought, I think the 185 will perform quite well for whomever buys it...

[Tailshaft56]

I think you will be happy with the TA. Mine came with the long back cap. I did convert to gas lenses and have since bought both the mediumand button caps.

[turboguy]

Am I correct that they are both made in Italy?

I have heard the Thermal Arc 185 is made in Japan and that they used to get welders from an Italian source, but not any more.


I would like to hear from others as well, as I've got a hard-on for the Thermal Arc machine and am very close to pulling the trigger on one myself.

- Brian

[trscott]

I have been drooling over the HTP catalog for a couple weeks. Began thinking I wanted a MIG, but have pretty well decided after a bit of study that I want to go for AC/DC TIG. I have been seriously drooling over the Invertig 201, but haven't figured out a way to win the lottery (having never bought a ticket...), so I am actually now beginning to look at the various Chinese made TIGs.

Haven't spent the money yet, but it will definitely be an AC/DC Squarewave Inverter TIG with pulse, probably 200 amp.

Mind you, I am VERY impressed with the HTP 201, but, two things I would do if I were HTP:

1) Redesign the unit to operate in a reduced output mode from 115Vac (Like Miller, Lincoln, etc.), and of course full output when 230Vac is available. This is almost free once you're already designing with an inverter, and it is a real convenience feature for a portable rig. You won't always have 230Vac, and you won't always need full output. That represents a lot of jobs that you can do with a wide input AC capability, that you can't other wise.

2) I think they could lighten it another 15 or 20 pounds. This is not a big deal, but the Lincoln and Miller inverters of comparable functionality are that much lighter, so I doubt if it would require any real compromise in performance or ruggedness. A 50 pound box is a lot more easily portable than a 70 pound one, especially when lifting it in and out of a vehicle over a tailgate.

The Chinese Inverter TIGs? They haven't yet mastered the wide input AC, but they are about 50 pounds light, but undoubtedly not as rugged as the name brands. (But gosh, the price is sure compelling...)

Cheers!

[knucklehead]

I have heard the Thermal Arc 185 is made in Japan and that they used to get welders from an Italian source, but not any more.


I would like to hear from others as well, as I've got a hard-on for the Thermal Arc machine and am very close to pulling the trigger on one myself.

- Brian

The Thermal Arc units never came from italy...The only issue with HTP is the distributor network or lack of...

[trscott]

After looking at these more closely, a few additional observations FWIW:

1) The more head to head comparison is the ThermalArc ArcMaster 200ACDC, compared to the HTP Invertig 201. I've seen the former on the web for about $2230, vs $2399 for the HTP.

2) The TA200 is rated for 20% duty cycle at 200A, vs 35% duty cycle at 200A for the HTP. The TA200 gives 100% duty cycle at 100A, while the HTP gives you 100% duty cycle at 135A. The truth is that the HTP gives you about 35% more output even though they are both rated as 200A machines.

3) The TA200 AC output frequency is adjustable from 15Hz to 150Hz, while the HTP is adjustable from 20Hz to 200Hz. The higher frequency can be helpful for a tighter, more stable arc on aluminum.

4) The lower weight of the TA200 (42lb vs 68lb for the HTP) is probably not a negative as was suggested by an earlier posting. The majority of the weight in a welder is the transformer that converts high voltage to high current. The old transformer welders just used the 60 Hz line frequency and therefore required a huge couple hundred pound transformer. In an inverter welder, the Intermediate Frequency (I.F.) that feeds this main transformer is cranked up to something between 20kHz to 200kHz instead of the 60Hz from the wall. Many use 100kHz, but the lightest weight units tend to use 200kHz. The higher the I.F. frequency, the small this main transformer can be for the same output power and efficiency; its just physics. Given the higher than normal weight of the HTP for a machine in this class, heavier than Lincoln, Miller, ThermalArc, and the best of the Chinese imports, I would guess that it may use an I.F. around 50kHz. That's just a guess and there are other factors such as steel case vs plastic and so on, but I would be surprised if it was even 100kHz. The ThermalArc unit may use 200kHz. The Miller Dynasty 200DX uses 200kHz if I recall correctly. Some of the Chinese welders even use 200kHz. But I found one 250A Inverter Pulsed TIG, microprocessor controlled, 60% duty cycle welder with 250A output, that could run off of 220Vac single phase, but it weighed 120 pounds, and sure enough it was running an I.F. of 20kHz. I wouldn't want to have to lift that in and out of my truck very much.

It is VERY unlikely that the HTP uses 26 pounds worth of higher quality components than the ThermalArc. It is far more likely is that the Thermal Arc uses an I.F. that is 2 to 4 times higher frequency than the HTP.

HTP could very likely reduce the cost of their units if they cranked up the I.F.

5) The thing is, the copper and steel in that big transformer is much more expensive than the electronics of the inverter circuit that allows a smaller transformer. When old fashioned transformer welders got inverters and went on a diet that lost 200 to 250 pounds of copper and steel, the new inverter welders could actually have been priced to be much less expensive than transformer welders. On a component cost basis, maybe as much lower as half, but initially they had some development engineering to recoup. But the manufacturers are pricing by value and not by cost plus markup. The Inverter welders have a lot of valuable features that you can't get on an older trasnformer welder, and the low cost inverter designs allow much better profits. The only trouble with this pricing strategy, is that it leaves the back door open for foreign competition to step in and fill the gap with a product priced more aggressively. (gee I wonder if that is going to happen... Hummm...)

If a machine in this price range is in your budget, based on nothing but these specs, and given very similar pricing and features, from two good companies that both seem to have excellent reputations, my conclusion would be that if portability is more important to you, I would get the ThermalArc 200 at 42lb vs 68lb, but if the higher output is more desirable the 35% greater output of the HTP 201 looks like a better choice. If you are going to be doing almost entirely lighter weight materials, and want to haul it in and out of the truck, your back will vote for the 42 pounds. But if it is going to live in a cart rolling around your shop never more than ten feet from your 230Vac outlet, and rarely get lifted by the handles, and if you may want to do some heavier duty work, especially thicker aluminum, that 35% more output is going to help a lot.

Just my two cents worth after staring at the spreadsheet I made for hours and hours.

Oh, and I kind of like the control panel design philosophy of the Thermal Arc a bit better, like Lincoln's, and Fronius and some others. They use the intuitive wave diagram for adjusting things, that helps my mind internalize what I am doing better. The HTP looks like maybe it is closer to the Miller control panel design, but I don't have a very good picture of the HTP control panel. The TA is more visual, the HTP looks like it is more list-based.

Finally, the ThermalArc only has 5 memories for settings, while the HTP has 99, but 99 seems kind of overkill to me. Are you ever going to remember more than 5?

[cyclenorthman]

I bought a Invertig200 not working for $500. Htp would not supply me with any service information but did test the circuit board I thought was bad and told me that the tested board was the problem.$500 later for a new replacement board and the units has work great eversince.
The most I ever spent on the inverter type machines from the mideast/China(Mitec type unit) is $70 plus they also supplied me with the service manual for free for another machine that allowed me to find the problem part(a $.70 transistor) on the circuit board.
Just my $.02
Cyclenorthman