How do auto darkening lenses work?

[CaptainWilly]

How does an auto darkening helmet actually work? anyone know? just curiosity...

Sometimes when mine shuts off it gets a "bubbly" effect and looks like its some sort of liquid in the glass, and that got me curious about how it actually works.

[miweldmi]

It is an LCD, which is why you get the liquid look in the glass because LCD stands for Liquid Crystal Display. These are the same technology and LCD TV's or computer monitors, only these are monochrome. An LCD works like this, starting from the back side out... bright light, polarizer, glass, LCD, glass, polarizer. The light shines through the polarizer which collimates the light, through the glass, the liquid crystal then distort the light (red, blue, green separately), through the glass, then through the last polarizer to your eyes. The LCD in your auto-darkening helmet does not change the color just the "Contrast" i.e. how much light gets through.

Hope that didn't confuse you more.

[William McCormick Jr]

I am under the impression that the bright light, ultra violet and x-rays which according to my schooling are all electrons, are accelerated to a speed to knock out most of the x-rays and ultraviolet rays.

I do not know if you have ever fooled around with lasers through colored glass and or colored liquids. However in most cases the laser is almost unstoppable. Through a welding lens the laser is made to look distant or far off. Strange angular irregularities can be developed.
If you try to shine a laser through a black light lens or black light glass you get a similar effect, where the very powerful laser is unable to get through the black light lens.
a white light can penetrate it though, in the lower UV band and dark heat band. But a red light will not penetrate this material.

It is because the red band has the least amount of velocity or penetrative power. This can cause strange surface effects. With that odd glow. But when you accelerate the rays through dark glass, they are consumed easily.


Sincerely,


William McCormick

[CaptainWilly]

I need to stop asking questions that involve answers that make me feel even dumber...

:rolleyes:

[enlpck]

How does an auto darkening helmet actually work? anyone know? just curiosity...

Sometimes when mine shuts off it gets a "bubbly" effect and looks like its some sort of liquid in the glass, and that got me curious about how it actually works.

Nice and simple explanation:

It is a pair of polarizers, essentially like those in polarized sunglasses, with a material between them that can rotate the polarization.

Huh? you say?

If you have a couple lenses from polarized sunglasses (or two pairs, using one lens from each), hold them so one lens is right in front of another. Rotate them relative to each other, and you will see that there is an alignment that completely blocks the light, and if you rotate one lens 90 degrees, the maximum light passes (which is about half of the light there would be is the lenses weren't there) (<-- this is half the concept of the autodark, not terribly oversimplified)

These lenses are absorptive polarizers (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizer for way too much about these). The light waves are all oriented the same way after passing through the first polarizer, and when the second is oriented at a right angle to the first, all of the light will be blocked. The liquid crystal between the polarizers on the shield can either rotate the polarization of light passing through it by 90 degrees, or not affect the polarization, depending on whether it is electrically powered (<-- gross oversimplification)

The liquid crystal itself is aligned by microscopic striations on the surfaces of the glass that contains it, and this alignment is changed by the electric field of the applied power (<-- less oversimplified, but still not really complete)

If you are seeing a bubbly effect, you are likely seeing the difference in rate at which the liquid crystal recovers at various point on the lens, which varies due to several things, including minor differences in spacing between the two faces. (<-- again, not terribly oversimplified) You can see the same effect by pressing on the display of a pocket calculator.

Side note: Mr McCormick is..... entertaining.... but is in no way consistent with the theory accepted by those that design and develop LCD's, design optical systems, work in physics, work in engineering, work in chemistry, work in biology, design weapon systems, design medical devices, write science fiction, write poetry, etc.

[DSW]

Don't know how they work but I do have some idea where they came from. In the early 80's our scout troop visited a SAC bomber base in Wash state. They had a display of the goggles used by the pilots. They had a set of goggles you could look thru and a hi intensity strobe set up to darken the lenses. I'll bet that technology for our helmets is based on similar principles if not directly from that. Amazing how much stuff we take for granted comes from military R&D. GPS, cell phones, computers, the list goes on and on.

[383bigblock]

William,
I've read your response several times and somewhere I missed where you even tried to answer the guys question. I guess the next time a question comes up about black lights and lasers I be able to come back to this post and read up.

[miweldmi]

Nice and simple explanation:

It is a pair of polarizers, essentially like those in polarized sunglasses, with a material between them that can rotate the polarization.


Agreed, short and simple.

Huh? you say?

If you have a couple lenses from polarized sunglasses (or two pairs, using one lens from each), hold them so one lens is right in front of another. Rotate them relative to each other, and you will see that there is an alignment that completely blocks the light, and if you rotate one lens 90 degrees, the maximum light passes (which is about half of the light there would be is the lenses weren't there) (<-- this is half the concept of the autodark, not terribly oversimplified)

These lenses are absorptive polarizers (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizer for way too much about these). The light waves are all oriented the same way after passing through the first polarizer, and when the second is oriented at a right angle to the first, all of the light will be blocked. The liquid crystal between the polarizers on the shield can either rotate the polarization of light passing through it by 90 degrees, or not affect the polarization, depending on whether it is electrically powered (<-- gross oversimplification)

The liquid crystal itself is aligned by microscopic striations on the surfaces of the glass that contains it, and this alignment is changed by the electric field of the applied power (<-- less oversimplified, but still not really complete)

If you are seeing a bubbly effect, you are likely seeing the difference in rate at which the liquid crystal recovers at various point on the lens, which varies due to several things, including minor differences in spacing between the two faces. (<-- again, not terribly oversimplified) You can see the same effect by pressing on the display of a pocket calculator.


Another good explanation.


Side note: Mr McCormick is..... entertaining.... but is in no way consistent with the theory accepted by those that design and develop LCD's, design optical systems, work in physics, work in engineering, work in chemistry, work in biology, design weapon systems, design medical devices, write science fiction, write poetry, etc.
He was wrong in that visible light and UV etc are not electrons. Light itself is has a wave-particle duality in that it consist of photons and electromagnetic radiation. Yadda, Yadda, Yadda... This is already confusing enough, but basically LCD's operate on visible light, UV light is usually damaging to them. UV is blocked by a UV coating similar to that which is on Lexan type plexiglass.

Heres another project I am working on that centers around LCD's:
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24105&hl=

[William McCormick Jr]

William,
I've read your response several times and somewhere I missed where you even tried to answer the guys question. I guess the next time a question comes up about black lights and lasers I be able to come back to this post and read up.


The fellow asked how an auto darkening lens worked. I was explaining that you do not actually block radiations in anyway, shape or form. You just accelerate them to a speed that emits no light, as in the auto darkening helmet.

The fellow may be wondering how safe something like that is. Or how much x-ray removal it can perform. I still hold to the science that was used to identify the elements hundreds of years ago. This science claims that light is slower then darkness. So if you accelerate powerful light and a lot of Ultra Violet, you may want some lead particles in the glass to accelerate the x-rays that may be formed.

I use the glass lenses myself until the auto darkening guys can explain the basics of science that they adhere to.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[William McCormick Jr]

Agreed, short and simple.


Another good explanation.


He was wrong in that visible light and UV etc are not electrons. Light itself is has a wave-particle duality in that it consist of photons and electromagnetic radiation. Yadda, Yadda, Yadda... This is already confusing enough, but basically LCD's operate on visible light, UV light is usually damaging to them. UV is blocked by a UV coating similar to that which is on Lexan type plexiglass.

Heres another project I am working on that centers around LCD's:
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24105&hl=

Light was considered electrons until the 1970's and the mandatory introduction of the neutron particle. After the neutron, came about 70 more phony particles. But light is just electrons.

Light by definition is electromagnetic radiation (Electrons). Photon was actually a poor slang term describing an effect created with light. There was no other particle involved, other then the electron.

You have to understand, that Zap with a hangover on a cold winter day, after banging his head under a truck he was welding, would stop to explain something to you. And offer more effort, and heart, to relay things to you correctly, then most of the physicists on earth.
You might get a few more slang term, and God darn its, then you would from a physicist but also a lot more truth. There are exceptions and I am sure they are shuffled to the back of the pack, because they don't even have a phony particle named after them.

I saw some of my sons school work when he moved in with me, and the stuff he was forced to learn was truly disgusting.


Sincerely,


William McCormick

[CaptainWilly]

For future reference... I would have accepted "The thingamajig hits the doohicky and causes the whatchacallit to do stuff" as an answer if it saved an argument.

[William McCormick Jr]

For future reference... I would have accepted "The thingamajig hits the doohicky and causes the whatchacallit to do stuff" as an answer if it saved an argument.

We are not arguing. We are just expressing our view points. With some thingmajigs and doohickeys.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[smithboy]

Light's wave-particle properties were somewhat understood in the early 1900s. That's one of the contributions of Einstein (photons)...Quantum mechanics post-Einstein fills in a WHOLE lot more...

[Sandy]

How does an auto darkening helmet actually work? anyone know? just curiosity...

They work great. :D

[miweldmi]

OH MY GOD!! I have read posts by Willy McCormick before and he is always off the wall but MAN I have never dealt with him first hand. WOW, there is a guy I know much like that at work, he will not believe anything that is not told to him by G.W. Bush or the Vatican. Everything else is just conspiracy to overthrow him, like science, medicine and anything else he does not understand.

I think Willy summed it up right here:
I still hold to the science that was used to identify the elements hundreds of years ago.
More like a thousand years ago!

And this one:
This science claims that light is slower then darkness.
Light is slower than darkness??? Someone call NASA because they need to give Willy a job! Darkness is the absence of light.

[William McCormick Jr]

OH MY GOD!! I have read posts by Willy McCormick before and he is always off the wall but MAN I have never dealt with him first hand. WOW, there is a guy I know much like that at work, he will not believe anything that is not told to him by G.W. Bush or the Vatican. Everything else is just conspiracy to overthrow him, like science, medicine and anything else he does not understand.

I think Willy summed it up right here:

More like a thousand years ago!

And this one:

Light is slower than darkness??? Someone call NASA because they need to give Willy a job! Darkness is the absence of light.

Why do you think NASA cannot go to the moon? The technology that got us there used to exist in more places then it does now. But it still exists if you want to know where you live.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[William McCormick Jr]

Light's wave-particle properties were somewhat understood in the early 1900s. That's one of the contributions of Einstein (photons)...Quantum mechanics post-Einstein fills in a WHOLE lot more...

Einstein was a quack too. He did not know anything about anything really. His misunderstanding of his schooling is part of the reason he was thrown out of Germany.

Germany was about where we are now, before World War Two. You had most of the countries people filled with counterintelligence and poor science.

But you had the extreme individuals that really could not even conceive why anyone wanted to have a war in mud, deserts and the cold. Because if you really wanted to just kill your neighbor certainly there is an almost infinite number of ways to just do it, with basic science. Unfortunately today most Americans do not have basic science.

Einstein was so curious about time travel and light speed, because he was filled with nonsense. Any good scientist laughs at time travel and always will. In a way I am happy Einstein and the other quacks claim to believe that time travel is possible, because it is a huge stop sign for any intelligent individual.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[TozziWelding]

Magic, plain and simple.

[DesertRider33]

Better luck next time....

[tresi]

Don't know how they work but I do have some idea where they came from. In the early 80's our scout troop visited a SAC bomber base in Wash state. They had a display of the goggles used by the pilots. They had a set of goggles you could look thru and a hi intensity strobe set up to darken the lenses. I'll bet that technology for our helmets is based on similar principles if not directly from that. Amazing how much stuff we take for granted comes from military R&D. GPS, cell phones, computers, the list goes on and on.

The original concept was that they could make an auto darkening windshield or googles so pilots wouldn't get blinded by the nuclear bomb flashes in case of an all out nuclear war where several planes would be dropping nukes.

[tanglediver]

You see AD helmets were top secret, that is, until after the Romulan deception of Federation Treaty, Star Date E6013. A scientific outpost near the Crab Nebula had been testing atmospheric ski goggles for an expedition to the frozen satellite "Quark". In a communicae to a neighboring testing facility, Romulun scouts intercepted uncoded, yet "classified" specifications. Survivors of subsequent torture and interrogation were rescued by a wayward interstellar shipping freighter, "The Cur". Naturally, Starfleet was immediately notified, and orders of naval engagement were cut.
The ensuing battle was a textbook example of military precision. Capt. Kirk had Mr. Sulu engage and angle the deflector sheilds with a simultaneous blast from phasers, red and white photon torpedoes and tractor beam immobilization. Mr. Spock buried his head in an orthoscopic rock tumbler searching for the hidden meaning of all existance while Dr. McCoy ran chemical analysis' with his fairy wand over an intergalactic, time capitulating, demonstraulizer hub. Time was of the essence, because if in fact the good Dr. could not reproduce sufficient enzymes to stabilize the antivirum, the crew would be placed on "Red Alert" to be cancelled only by direct order of the Captain. Quarantine Protocol being sufficiently appeased, all hands stood down. SOP must always be strictly adhered to in case of Romulan retaliation. Sensible enough! Lt. Uhura communicated any and all interference to Starfleet Command and in cases of course aberation, the helmsman, Mr. Czechov, was free to take evasive action. However, upon discovery of a little known scientific log (http://www.howstuffworks.com/), the battle was called on account of sun spots. Scotty had his hands full just keeping her under full power. :confused: :alien:

What was in the intercepted documents you ask?


































Eat more Malt-O-Meal!

:)

[CaptainWilly]

wow...

[MAC702]

Not only is McCormick's photon = electron theory pure crap, but the speed of a photon (speed of light) is determined by the media through which it travels. You can't just speed some of them up to satisy your whims. Photons have no charge. Why do we still let this guy set us off? Then again, someone has to warn every new guy that gets bombarded by it, I suppose.

[platypus20]

Go to either the Speedglas or Arc One websites, they both have white papers on the theory and technical application of the filtering and the use in the helmets they sell.

Jack

[SundownIII]

Maybe with a good auto darkening lens and one of William's Tin Foil Hats, we'd all be shielded from his further BS.

[-olllllllo-]

holy crap!!! all this just ta figger out how a whachamacallit werks??

think i'll stick ta just puttin the thing on and hope like heck it works right.

lol

[William McCormick Jr]

Not only is McCormick's photon = electron theory pure crap, but the speed of a photon (speed of light) is determined by the media through which it travels. You can't just speed some of them up to satisy your whims. Photons have no charge. Why do we still let this guy set us off? Then again, someone has to warn every new guy that gets bombarded by it, I suppose.

Since light is photons in your opinion, solar cells must work off of UV. Because photons do not have a charge. And I will take it that Ultra Violet is still electrons?

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[zapster]

You have to understand, that Zap with a hangover on a cold winter day, after banging his head under a truck he was welding, would stop to explain something to you. And offer more effort, and heart, to relay things to you correctly, then most of the physicists on earth.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

OK William..
Now just how did I get dragged into this...untill now..:angry:

...zap!

[William McCormick Jr]

OK William..
Now just how did I get dragged into this...untill now..:angry:

...zap!

I thought it was a sincere compliment. Because you run clinics and you help out individuals starting out in welding. Meanwhile the scientists change their mind faster then light. They want a million dollars a minute. They offer miles of twisted help manuals for understanding something rather simple.

But you just get out there do it and share it. That is all I was saying. I figured the guys could relate to you. I think they think I am Beldar the cone head or something from another planet.


Sincerely,


William McCormick

[zapster]

OK I'll take it as a complement then..

I had to laugh though..
You described me to a tee..

We're just from diffrent planets I guess..:jester:

:waving:

...zap!

[smithboy]

http://www.physlink.com/Education/askExperts/ae451.cfm

Just fyi on solar cells.

[Mandau]

Phew... glad that a good explanation... I bought it for the shape and colour... sorry guys doesnt know it was the one flash gordon use for space dive... back to my cage now...:D



err... down boy... down... sori forgotten my med...

[Moz]

The first mccormick message was funny, after that someone should have given him his medication.

miweldmi, there's no real chromatic variation in polarisation. The dowhangle she don't change with the feebwomble.

[Torben]

The first mccormick message was funny, after that someone should have given him his medication.


Yeah, at first I thought he was being serious but now I think he's just making stuff up to try to get a rise out of people. This isn't even senior high-school level physics.


Torben

[CaptainWilly]

I'd be curious to know how much total alcohol is consumed daily by the folks who inhabit this place...

[William McCormick Jr]

http://www.physlink.com/Education/askExperts/ae451.cfm

Just fyi on solar cells.

Let me just say that there is no such thing as photons, my questions are to bring to light some obvious flaws in what is happening to "science".

Now phosphorous is effected by photons, charge less particles? When phosphorous is normally effected by electrons, like in a Television tube or fluorescent light bulb.
Since photons have no charge how could they effect anything?

No two electrons in this universe ever actually touch. It is there repulsive charge that gives them the ability to create effects.

Light is electrons, it always will be.

X-rays are electrons, they can develop film. If photons can develop film, by bi-polarizing the film. And if they can create an abundance of electrons in one place or a shortage in one place, then they might as well be electrons.

Light is just electrons, the photon particle started out as a joke actually, now a whole nation that used to strive to be number one, thinks they have made it. And some also believe light is made up of imaginary particles with no charge, called photons. Just like the imaginary neutron with no charge.

I see a pattern here. A particle that could not effect anything by all logical and common sense thought patterns. Is suddenly the mystical particle that just does it all, somehow, with no real explanation.


At least electrons have a repulsive charge. They can use that to knock other electrons around. And knock around matter which is just balls of electrons. Electrons can create an abundance in one area of a piece of film to cause the film to be chemically altered, by electrical current actually. The film is literally etched by electron flow.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[Sandy]

Let me just say that there is no such thing as photons, my questions are to bring to light some obvious flaws in what is happening to "science".

So are you saying my photon torpedo is labeled wrong?

[STwelder]

This whole thing has made me smile..

[arvidj]

We will conclude this discussion with a link to the largest body of work associated with String Theory (http://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/MNDARtwine.html)

[ChamferTrode]

where the very powerful laser is unable to get through the black light lens.


very powerful laser?

I do not know if you have ever fooled around with lasers

that you've "fooled" around with?

Billy, the kind of lasers you've "fooled" around with are prolly laser diodes or maybe a HeNe tube, both in the milliwatt range, I'll even give you 20mW, that's 0.020 watts o' power or 1/50th of a watt. a 100w light bulb has 5000x more power!!!

where the very powerful laser is unable to get through the black light lens.
a white light can penetrate it though,

so, it ain't a very powerful laser for one, and white light doesn't penetrate it either, if it did, the light exiting would be white dipsh!t, not deep violet or 'black'.
the laser doesn't penetrate because it's filtered out, just like all the other colors of the "rainbow" except 'black'.

a laser is coherent light of a single bandwidth, that is why it "appears" brighter than a white light of same the wattage.

[William McCormick Jr]

very powerful laser?



that you've "fooled" around with?

Billy, the kind of lasers you've "fooled" around with are prolly laser diodes or maybe a HeNe tube, both in the milliwatt range, I'll even give you 20mW, that's 0.020 watts o' power or 1/50th of a watt. a 100w light bulb has 5000x more power!!!



so, it ain't a very powerful laser for one, and white light doesn't penetrate it either, if it did, the light exiting would be white dipsh!t, not deep violet or 'black'.
the laser doesn't penetrate because it's filtered out, just like all the other colors of the "rainbow" except 'black'.

a laser is coherent light of a single bandwidth, that is why it "appears" brighter than a white light of same the wattage.

I am talking about a laser, powerful enough to damage the human eye. That is pretty powerful no matter how many watts are input. Because I can look at a 100 watt light bulb from across the room and not have any eye damage. Yet if I look at a laser from across the room, my eyes can be damaged.

However if I put that laser through a black light lens or a welding lens, it is able to accelerate the lasers light/electrons back up to normal speeds that do not damage the human eye. And they are sometimes depending how thick or dark able to make the laser light invisible. When the same intensity of white light would in fact penetrate the black light lens.

In other words I could look at a white light that can penetrate the black light lens, but I cannot look at a laser that cannot penetrate the black light.

I also noted that a welding lens makes a lasers output at an angle to the face of the lens something to explain. It creates a distant effect through the lens. I believe that is why they call them welding lenses. Because they do more then just filter out color. They create some wild lens like effects, by accelerating forms of light.

It is true, I have only built small power supplies for helium neon lasers. I saw no need to make something more powerful. They are really to delicate for any kind of useful application that I would have for them. But I have some ideas of how I could beef up the containment or container of a laser beam. So it could be portable and rather useful.

I used to go over to a local electron beam manufacturing center near me. To see their latest experiments. They have had two inch thick special glass break while firing electron beam tubes. You don't want to be standing there.

But big lasers really do not have to much use yet at least to me.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[65535]

Just for the record, the speed of light is constant through all mediums. It is a wave that travels through photons carrying energy. (Ap Physics in highschool, studying light currently)

[Torben]

Just for the record, the speed of light is constant through all mediums. It is a wave that travels through photons carrying energy. (Ap Physics in highschool, studying light currently)

Actually, no it isn't. That's how refraction works. The speed of light in a vacuum is a constant, however. The speed of light in transparent media is lower.


Torben

[ChamferTrode]

Actually 65535 IS correct, the SPEED of light is constant. It is the path the light takes that makes the "speed" appear slower. Think of it this way; you and a friend are driving in your cars at 60mph, you are on a straight path one mile long, clear of obstruction, your friend on the other hand is on a path of same length but crowded with traffic cones. you arrive at the 1 mile mark in one minute, your friend a bit later. Your speeds are the same (60mph), yet one arrives later. Same with light through media, the light encounters obstructions (atoms, molecules) and is diverted from it's straight path. The speed is still the same, the time it takes to pass through, longer.

[ChamferTrode]

But I have some ideas of how I could beef up the containment or container of a laser beam. So it could be portable and rather useful.



WOW !!! You'll be a gazillionaire !! A portable laser? Think of the possiblities !!!
You could use it to point at a presentation, confuse your cat, annoy the neighbors.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh wait, that's a laser pointer, readily available, and reasonably priced.

[Torben]

Actually 65535 IS correct, the SPEED of light is constant. It is the path the light takes that makes the "speed" appear slower. Think of it this way; you and a friend are driving in your cars at 60mph, you are on a straight path one mile long, clear of obstruction, your friend on the other hand is on a path of same length but crowded with traffic cones. you arrive at the 1 mile mark in one minute, your friend a bit later. Your speeds are the same (60mph), yet one arrives later. Same with light through media, the light encounters obstructions (atoms, molecules) and is diverted from it's straight path. The speed is still the same, the time it takes to pass through, longer.

I see what you're getting at: you're saying that while the instantaneous speed of light does not change, the average speed over the traversal of the transparent medium does. I can buy that for the moment (need more research) but it isn't the way the speed of light is normally referred to (I'm not totally sure but I don't think we're usually interested in the instantaneous speed). For instance, the refractive index is often defined as the ratio of the speed of light in a vacuum to the speed of light in the medium being measured.

But again, it's a complex subject and has all sorts of things which impact it, such as how fast the observer is moving (as you know).

I'm housesitting right now and don't have my books for references but this is what a quick googling turned up:

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/speedoflight/index.html

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/speed_of_light.html

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/geoopt/refr.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light#Interaction_with_transparent_materi als

But we can agree that auto-darkening helmets certainly are not "accelerating light to X-ray velocity" or any such gibberish, right? ;)


Torben

[ChamferTrode]

Using my analogy (cars, 1 mile stretch of road, cones, 60mph) consider this;
If we measured the speed of the cars traversing the lanes against time:
car A (unobstructed) covers 5280 feet in one minute (60 miles per hour)
car B (obstructed) covers 5280 in one minute (60mph), but it's course through the cones is, say 10560 feet, (yeah, a LOT of cones), it arrives at the finish in 2 minutes, is it's speed 60mph or 30mph? The same as with the speed of light, it's speed is constant, its diverse path through media 'slows' it in relation to a vacuum (distance over time).


yes, we agree, WMcC is nuts.

[miweldmi]

I don't want to jump back in to this whole discussion because Willy McCromick makes me want to push my computer off the desk. But YES, we ALL agree that they are not 'accelerating' light to "X-ray velocity". Nor are they accelerating light to the point it becomes black light, hey Willy I thought black was the absence of light?? Maybe I am wrong, I can't ever seem to see anything in the dark... Strange. Oh and if light is just electrons then Tesla is gunna be real pissed! Why have power transmission lines when we could just "BEAM" electricity around the city with light?

[Torben]

Using my analogy (cars, 1 mile stretch of road, cones, 60mph) consider this;
If we measured the speed of the cars traversing the lanes against time:
car A (unobstructed) covers 5280 feet in one minute (60 miles per hour)
car B (obstructed) covers 5280 in one minute (60mph), but it's course through the cones is, say 10560 feet, (yeah, a LOT of cones), it arrives at the finish in 2 minutes, is it's speed 60mph or 30mph? The same as with the speed of light, it's speed is constant, its diverse path through media 'slows' it in relation to a vacuum (distance over time).


Exactly: instantaneous speed vs. average speed over a given distance. The thing is that you cannot measure an instantaneous speed, only an average speed to a finite accuracy. You cannot know both exactly where a photon is and exactly how fast it is going, in other words (from Heisenburg's uncertainty principle). Within the slower medium you can only measure the average speed between two distinct points in the medium--and the photon's speed will be the average speed of travel between those two points. And that average speed will be lower than that of the speed between any two points in a vacuum (ignoring left-handed materials which are just weird).

Either that I've completely lost my mind (and I do need another cup of joe). :)


Cheers,

Torben

[Moz]

Torben, I have a spare that I found on the side of the road the other day, should I post it over?

[Torben]

Torben, I have a spare that I found on the side of the road the other day, should I post it over?

I found mine--it was hiding in the bottom of the coffee pot. I'm a bit leery of spares. Last one I found by the road turned out to be from some minor politician and I spent the next three days trying to convince the wife that a three martini lunch was a valid expense.


Torben

[William McCormick Jr]

WOW !!! You'll be a gazillionaire !! A portable laser? Think of the possiblities !!!
You could use it to point at a presentation, confuse your cat, annoy the neighbors.
.
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Oh wait, that's a laser pointer, readily available, and reasonably priced.


I was thinking more like on space shows.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[zapster]

Where is that "Banging my head against a wall" smiley once again???

...zap!

[William McCormick Jr]

I don't want to jump back in to this whole discussion because Willy McCromick makes me want to push my computer off the desk. But YES, we ALL agree that they are not 'accelerating' light to "X-ray velocity". Nor are they accelerating light to the point it becomes black light, hey Willy I thought black was the absence of light?? Maybe I am wrong, I can't ever seem to see anything in the dark... Strange. Oh and if light is just electrons then Tesla is gunna be real pissed! Why have power transmission lines when we could just "BEAM" electricity around the city with light?

They certainly are being accelerated to x-ray speed, and hopefully beyond. Because if not you could find your sight fading nicely. When ever you are going to be looking at something a lot, and it has some electrical/light emission. You should probably have some glass that contains lead between you and the event. Or else over time those minute x-ray bursts will get you.

Years ago they did studies and found that when you turn an ordinary incandescent bulb, on and off. Each time, on and off, there is a split second of x-ray emission. It is just how things work.

You are not going to be able to develop a chest x-ray with it. But it was in the x-ray band. That is why even incandescent bulbs had lead in the glass.

If you study some of the history of x-ray machine manufacture. The early devices used a radio active material and time. The later models used high voltage and tungsten. You will see that it took millions of volts to create an x-ray. The reason is that x-rays get rid of an enormous amount of energy from an area. So to create them it takes an enormous amount of energy.

Or it takes a screen or block to ambient radiation to cause them.

In the case of an electrical ARC, there is a moment at the start and finish of the ARC, that creates some x-ray emission. It is very small and very short in duration, because it requires and removes an enormous amount of energy.

Red emissions remove a small amount of energy from the area, yellow and green emissions remove more energy. Blue and Ultra Violet remove even more energy. X-rays remove even more.


Sincerely,


William McCormick

[MAC702]

Since light is photons in your opinion, solar cells must work off of UV. Because photons do not have a charge. And I will take it that Ultra Violet is still electrons?

Is this a test? How old are you?

UV is still light, and so are the cooking rays in your microwave oven, etc, etc.

The photoelectric effect is what Einstein won his Nobel Prize for.

[enlpck]

Mac: Don't succumb. Just let it go. Did you ever try to convince a rock to fall up? Might be more successful than trying to make headway with Bill.

[Mandau]

err... are we forced into laser zapping trial if we buy a new AD helmet... this thread is gettin scary by the moment...:blob2::blob2::blob2:

[William McCormick Jr]

Is this a test? How old are you?

UV is still light, and so are the cooking rays in your microwave oven, etc, etc.

The photoelectric effect is what Einstein won his Nobel Prize for.

He got a Nobel prize. That is like a law maker winning an election. Do I need to spell it out or give examples.

He was also thrown out of Germany.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[Burnit]

Everybody just relax, I almost got this all figured out. Here is a picture of my lab, that is my helmet on the table there.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c96/PortPirate/thelab.jpg

[CaptainWilly]

You can't use that discount brand foil to make a helmet!!!!

You have to use reynolds wrap brand aluminum foil! its the only aluminum foil that can block both the CIA brainwave scanners and thermal super conducter ray mind scramblers! :nono:

[MAC702]

Not true! It is a little known fact that the cheap foil will work if you spray it with garlic-flavored PAM before use.

[Mandau]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgnYbUJef4

Yea... some one deflect the ray on the SATELITTE with a Auto Darkening helmet... darn those welding astronaut... ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtSxAqlhrLA

This is their official appology... :D:D:D

[Mandau]

Everybody just relax, I almost got this all figured out. Here is a picture of my lab, that is my helmet on the table there.

err... why not move all that gears to my place... and we experiment somethin else? :D:D:D

[William McCormick Jr]

Everybody just relax, I almost got this all figured out. Here is a picture of my lab, that is my helmet on the table there.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c96/PortPirate/thelab.jpg

Have you ever taken a probe and connected it to aluminum foil? You can get readings from a CRT or other devices near by. Like wireless mice or keyboards.

Sincerely,


William McCormick