Missing posts/disciplinary action

[Bob at WeldingMag]

In the name of maintaining civility at this site, we have taken quiet disciplinary action against two members of the site. This action has resulted in their current and past posts becoming invisible to other members. Both members still have full privileges at this site, with the not-so-minor detail that their posts are not visible until such time that I decide they are willing to maintain a more acceptable demeanor in their communication with other members.

These posts have not been deleted, and this action need not be permanent. However, it was deemed necessary due to a large number of complaints -- made privately to me and our moderators, as well as made publicly within the threads. In all cases, these complaints specifically named one or the other of the two members affected by this action.

Our goal is to maintain civility and constructive discourse here based on feedback from members, and this action has been taken to that end.

I am choosing not to disclose the names of the members disciplined in this instance because they are, at least until now, unaware that their continued incivility is invisible to the general membership.

Please be assured that both of these members had been previously contacted and asked to maintain a more collegial level of discourse. Through their subsequent actions, they demonstrated an unwillingness to honor that request.

If you have further questions or concerns please feel free to let me know.

[h2oboy]

Why don't you make the posts or parts of the posts that you find offensive blocked, not all posts by the people. There is still important information that they have posted, that would be beneficial to other Professional and Hobby welder here on this site.
It looks like you are trying to punish everyone here on the site, just because the poster called out some faults on other members work.

The best lessons learned, are from our mistakes.

[Bob at WeldingMag]

You make a great point. It is, unfortunately, a limitation of the system we are using. To block the offensive posts in the manner I described requires blocking all of the posts.

The only other way to block the offensive posts is to delete them individually, which takes more time than we are willing to spend, and which makes them much more difficult to retrieve.

Further, I have reviewed all the posts by the users in this case and can assure you there was very little constructive content contained in them. These individuals created a trail that made it very clear they were not here to share in the professionalism and collegiality of this community.

Admittedly, I need to ask for your trust on that point.

Also remember, we do not remove every post by every user that could be deemed as uncivil. We only take action after an individual creates a real track record of boorish behavior -- AND after we receive multiple complaints about it.

[snoeproe]

Good job Bob.
Someone has to keep the forum a comfortable place for all.

[Patriot Performance]

Thanks Bob, I agree fully with what you have done.

I'm sure the world will still turn without the knowledge of these few individuals.

[GiantTechGuy]

Thank you very much Bob. :drinkup:

[Sober_Pollock]

Good Job Bob, Keep up the good work!

Although.....

There have been a few moments at work lately when I felt like I was invisible to everyone else.....

You didn't have anything to do with that did you?

[Bob at WeldingMag]

Good Job Bob, Keep up the good work!

Although.....

There have been a few moments at work lately when I felt like I was invisible to everyone else.....

You didn't have anything to do with that did you?

For the record, I have seen you post. :)

[mark8310]

Just for the record, I don't agree, Bob, seems most of your "bannings" and "disciplinary actions" have taken place when people happen to disagree or conflict with the "favored" members ..... and if you happen to go visit SFT (today) , Miller (in the old days), and Weld Talk (Hobart) (also today), you will see, many of the posts that people call "pissing matches" actually have more useful info in them than the ones here, that everybody seems to follow the PC line of thinking. Any competent person, will soon be able to sort thru, and pick out, the right info based on the personalities involved. Here, you only get the "proper info" as determined by the "favored members". I will note, that many of the conflicts don't start from somebody asking a stupid question (unless the question is so stupid they could've found the answer by clicking on one of the tabs on the page, which is usually pointed out right away),,,,,, but from stupid advice, given by guys who don't know what they're talking about. "I heard this",,,,, "I understand this",,,,, "I've been doing this for years" ,,,,,, and this is "PROFESSIONAL"????????? Not accepted on any of the websites I mentioned, but somehow accepted here as long as it's from a properly politically correct member?????????

I can probably count 10 guys here, who I've observed only start or answer posts they have direct knowledge about, none of whom are your "favored, PC members or moderators", you guys know who you are, I or nobody else has a problem here. Another 20 or so guys, yes, they do give good advice on occasion, but are also not too shy to pop in on a subject they know nothing about, a few of your "favored" members are included here, and yes, there is a problem here, they are posting as "gospel truth", and it just ain't so.

And what's wrong with using strong language or opinions when disputing somebody's "advice"????? I mean, if you gotta get the point across, get the dam point across. I don't live in a "PC" world, I work and make a living in the real world, with real chemistry, real physics, real engineering ..... and have never been shy in the real world about telling somebody (even those with better "credentials" than I) to stick their head up ........ hehehehe

As I understand it, bob, you may be a great "publisher" (debatable, as I haven't filled out the "free subscription" form in years)...... I get much more valuable and pertinent info from reading the local news, the Wall Street Journal, various farm publications, etc. etc., just don't have time for any others. Also read Miller's and Lincoln's email postings, very informative. Here, you gotta make a choice, are you really looking for a "professional" board, or are you just looking for "ratings"??????

As I see it, you personally know next to nothing about welding, engineering, or fabricating, and you've done a pretty good job of deleting, banning, and disciplining several (more than a few) truly professional welders, engineers, and employers, all of whom have more knowledge in their little fingers about welding, weld proceedures (do you even know what a weld proceedure is????), fabricating, and repairs; than you'll ever know. And you did this in almost every case, not because somebody created a conflict, but because one or several of your "favored", "star", members had a chip on their shoulders, and themselves created a conflict .....

Think about it .......

Gonna ban me??????? I won't go away, I hate seeing flawed information and advice posted,,,,,,,,,,, and as a "professional",,,,,, I see more of that here than anywhere else .......

[worldsgreatestwelder]

Vary well said Mark.


:blob1::blob1::blob1::blob1::blob1::drinkup::drink up::drinkup:

[zapster]

And?

I asked you in a previous thread what your problem was..
Finally out eh?


There are no favorites here my friend..

We aviod pissing wars..
Not good for anything..
I should know.

If you don't like the rules set by the management then go elsewhere..
Granted there are times to disagree but then there are times when drop it comes into effect..

You guys don't know when to drop it..

Here is a good example..


...zap!

[TEK]

If you have further questions or concerns please feel free to let me know.

And so he did. Thats his opinion and he is allowed to voice it. I'll stand with him...:waving:

[zapster]

And so he did. Thats his opinion and he is allowed to voice it. I'll stand with him...:waving:

Good point..




And we're off!!!!


...zap!

[Me!]

Well I don't know who or what it was about, so I have no comment...

[Brett]

I have strongly disagreed with Mark in the past , you get that.
I have also , on occasion , found his posts unnecessarily confrontational , you get that also from time to time.
This is the Internet and we are grown men.


But
There is a good element of truth in what he says.
Whist I don't see the scale that he does I also feel the trend he describes exists.

I see no need to change the forum I enjoy it immensely , inaccurate posts are picked up quickly, there is a great depth of knowledge available and from a vast range of back grounds. But we should be aware of the concerns he raises.

There is little learning with out stimulation .Threads that contain a difference of opinion are the most stimulating and have the most to offer.

2c from Brett

[Black Wolf]

It would be a pretty boring world if we all agreed about everything.

Nothing wrong with spirited discussions. The internet is full of adoring sheep that will agree with, or go along with, anything. :nono:

We benefit more when people are willing to disagree, and explain their position, based on their experiences.

Then we all learn. :waving:

[boilerman]

Just for the record, I don't agree, Bob, seems most of your "bannings" and "disciplinary actions" have taken place when people happen to disagree or conflict with the "favored" members ..... and if you happen to go visit SFT (today) , Miller (in the old days), and Weld Talk (Hobart) (also today), you will see, many of the posts that people call "pissing matches" actually have more useful info in them than the ones here, that everybody seems to follow the PC line of thinking. Any competent person, will soon be able to sort thru, and pick out, the right info based on the personalities involved. Here, you only get the "proper info" as determined by the "favored members". I will note, that many of the conflicts don't start from somebody asking a stupid question (unless the question is so stupid they could've found the answer by clicking on one of the tabs on the page, which is usually pointed out right away),,,,,, but from stupid advice, given by guys who don't know what they're talking about. "I heard this",,,,, "I understand this",,,,, "I've been doing this for years" ,,,,,, and this is "PROFESSIONAL"????????? Not accepted on any of the websites I mentioned, but somehow accepted here as long as it's from a properly politically correct member?????????

I can probably count 10 guys here, who I've observed only start or answer posts they have direct knowledge about, none of whom are your "favored, PC members or moderators", you guys know who you are, I or nobody else has a problem here. Another 20 or so guys, yes, they do give good advice on occasion, but are also not too shy to pop in on a subject they know nothing about, a few of your "favored" members are included here, and yes, there is a problem here, they are posting as "gospel truth", and it just ain't so.

And what's wrong with using strong language or opinions when disputing somebody's "advice"????? I mean, if you gotta get the point across, get the dam point across. I don't live in a "PC" world, I work and make a living in the real world, with real chemistry, real physics, real engineering ..... and have never been shy in the real world about telling somebody (even those with better "credentials" than I) to stick their head up ........ hehehehe

As I understand it, bob, you may be a great "publisher" (debatable, as I haven't filled out the "free subscription" form in years)...... I get much more valuable and pertinent info from reading the local news, the Wall Street Journal, various farm publications, etc. etc., just don't have time for any others. Also read Miller's and Lincoln's email postings, very informative. Here, you gotta make a choice, are you really looking for a "professional" board, or are you just looking for "ratings"??????

As I see it, you personally know next to nothing about welding, engineering, or fabricating, and you've done a pretty good job of deleting, banning, and disciplining several (more than a few) truly professional welders, engineers, and employers, all of whom have more knowledge in their little fingers about welding, weld proceedures (do you even know what a weld proceedure is????), fabricating, and repairs; than you'll ever know. And you did this in almost every case, not because somebody created a conflict, but because one or several of your "favored", "star", members had a chip on their shoulders, and themselves created a conflict .....

Think about it .......

Gonna ban me??????? I won't go away, I hate seeing flawed information and advice posted,,,,,,,,,,, and as a "professional",,,,,, I see more of that here than anywhere else .......


I to agree 100% with Mark...as you can see from my joined date I have been a member here awhile and have never logged in just for the reason he has stated, from time to time I get bored and pop in for a look to see.....Most of the best welders I have met are the most un PC people you will meet, they call it as they see it and don't waste words about it ...they don't do it to be nasty about it, they do it to set you right and for you to learn ....if you get your feelings hurt, to bad, the world is not a warm and fuzzy place....suck it up, learn and live.

[J Hall]

Oh, why can't we all just get along and have fun? Who cares if some moron offers idiotic advice to some poor guy that doesn't know any better? So what if he gets hurt? so what if someones POS trailer comes apart on the road and hits YOUR family.
We are all just here to bond, not actually LEARN anything.
As long as we are all polite it will be just peachy:angel:

Now let's all put on our sunscreen and go weld some cat carriers:dizzy:

[zapster]

Now let's all put on our sunscreen and go weld some cat carriers


Good Idea!

Go make yourself useful for once in your miserable life..:waving::laugh:

...zap!

[smokeshow]

Well I don't know who or what it was about, so I have no comment...

The "Who" should not carry any weight in a completely objective non-bias decision. Just the what and how and when and where. My 2¢

But as I also, do not have a clue as to what this is truly about.

But with the internet, you can not fully control everything, no matter how hard you try. You can only hope to contain it.

[Stack of Dimes]

As a long time lurker and now a reluctant poster, I'm pretty amazed at what's transpired here lately. A buddy of mine here at the shop used to kick around here with me and he's had it. He refuses to check this site anymore and is now on Hobart's (lurking I think). I had to register and explain why.

He and I completely see what is being described by the 'trouble makers' that are being kicked out. There is COMPLETE bias for a few posters. My buddy first pointed it out awhile ago to me and I can't deny it. If you don't see it you're just crazy. If someone posts negative comments or makes suggestions that go against the grain of a few select members, the group divides against the dissenter and the thread spirals into name-calling and back handed replies. It doesn't appear to matter if the person is right or wrong, it just happens.

Now there's a question posted by Mark and then a reply by Bob, but then the reply disappears???? I saw it and now it's gone. Did you take it back? I feel as if you don't quote someone's previous comment in your post, their comment may 'disappear' and you're replying to dead air. What is that about? I saw the same thing with Sundown III and worldsgreatestwelder that happened during Zap's thread. (yeah, I'm smart enough to know of discipline, but there was good information there that's now LOST). How do we KNOW they are being good boys now if we have no way to see if their most current posts change in attitude? How do we KNOW they aren't gone for good and aren't going to be allowed back? They're invisible to the rest of us. The credentials Sundown posted were pretty impressive to me, I'd take his criticism even if it were rough around the edges. I'm a big boy, I can take negative criticism from a guy smarter than me. ESPECIALLY if it were for something as important as that was!

I'm sure I'm singling myself out for some sort of retribution, but if that's what happens maybe I'll just join my friend over on Hobart. That would sure prove the point of my theory, I guess I'll wait and see.

[zapster]

Welcome to the site!..:waving:

I have been in the "Penalty Box" here a few times myself..
NOBODY is immune..:nono:

...zap!

[Stack of Dimes]

Welcome to the site!..:waving:

I have been in the "Penalty Box" here a few times myself..
NOBODY is immune..:nono:

...zap!

Hello!

No, but I think some people are getting quite a few more minutes unnecessarily...

[daddy]

If you look at Bob's original statement concerning this discipline, he used the word civility. He also mentioned that the lack of civility in posting had been brought up to the members in question previously.

Before I go further, I should qualify my perspective. I manage a crew of 6 to 8 road construction workers from the backwoods hills of western PA. I am not politically correct. I've even had a guy take swings at me on a job. I don't have time for sugar coating the truth. I do however find the lack of civility between members here leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm here to learn and better myself as a weldor, and to help others when I am able, AND for a bit of r&r after a long day. I can live without the drama. I also know that if you think that someone is doing something wrong, and you want to convince them not to do it, you have to figure out what motivates that person and present yourself and your direction/advice accordingly.... if you are looking for results. If you want a fight, that is much easier to get. I have learned this lesson the hard way.

I will also say that the idea of censorship really bugs me. I'd rather put up with a lack of civil discourse when someone's frustration gets the better of him than be unable to learn from the posts of his knowledge and experience.

But what do I know?? I'm just a redneck from the woods. If the dogs aren't killing each other, they will probably work it out.:D

[MAC702]

...If the dogs aren't killing each other, they will probably work it out.:D

There's one to remember...

[Row Of Nickels]

I will also say that the idea of censorship really bugs me. I'd rather put up with a lack of civil discourse when someone's frustration gets the better of him than be unable to learn from the posts of his knowledge and experience.

If the dogs aren't killing each other, they will probably work it out.:D


My buddy signed on and now I did too. This site was OK until this stuff went down. You're right, they will work it out like guys who carry iron do LIKE MEN. Then some guy goes crying about having his poor feelings hurt and another guy gets banned. THE SMART GUY TOO! 'Lock this thread'. Why? So you won't cry? There's so much bias here it's stupid. We look at 4 or 5 boards here at work or something and this is by far the last one of the list. There are lots of guys that are on all the other boards at the same time but you don't see as many of them here, now I know why. Some guy who's a publisher runs this thing and some guy who can't even fab a simple welding cart becomes a moderator! Popularity over skill I guess right? My 6 year old kid could make a better cart out of elmers glue and popsickle sticks than that. and he becomes a moderator? That tells me all I need to know. I sling iron, it's my job. I cuss I swear I sometimes get in fights but I do my job and I do it well. I take pride in that. If someone tells me I did something wrong I listen and fix it or explain why my way is better. I don't dispute him if he knows what he's talking about even if he doesn't use kind words and hurts my feelings because I'm a MAN and that's how we work. If your feelings can't take it get a desk job and leave the welding to the rest of the MEN to do it for you.

Pete

[Stack of Dimes]

My buddy signed on and now I did too. This site was OK until this stuff went down. You're right, they will work it out like guys who carry iron do LIKE MEN. Then some guy goes crying about having his poor feelings hurt and another guy gets banned. THE SMART GUY TOO! 'Lock this thread'. Why? So you won't cry? There's so much bias here it's stupid. We look at 4 or 5 boards here at work or something and this is by far the last one of the list. There are lots of guys that are on all the other boards at the same time but you don't see as many of them here, now I know why. Some guy who's a publisher runs this thing and some guy who can't even fab a simple welding cart becomes a moderator! Popularity over skill I guess right? My 6 year old kid could make a better cart out of elmers glue and popsickle sticks than that. and he becomes a moderator? That tells me all I need to know. I sling iron, it's my job. I cuss I swear I sometimes get in fights but I do my job and I do it well. I take pride in that. If someone tells me I did something wrong I listen and fix it or explain why my way is better. I don't dispute him if he knows what he's talking about even if he doesn't use kind words and hurts my feelings because I'm a MAN and that's how we work. If your feelings can't take it get a desk job and leave the welding to the rest of the MEN to do it for you.

Pete

Yeah, Pete's pretty pissed about this. Can you tell? :laugh: We share PCs here at work and he's posting on mine. Maybe I shouldn't have shown him how to register. Now I'll get banned I'm sure!

He's a good guy and an awesome welder! I'd put him and our boss' skill up against anyone anyday. I'm not as good as them, but someday I might be. He's mad at me because I stole the screen name he wanted to use. :laugh:

[daddy]

My buddy signed on and now I did too. This site was OK until this stuff went down. You're right, they will work it out like guys who carry iron do LIKE MEN. Then some guy goes crying about having his poor feelings hurt and another guy gets banned. THE SMART GUY TOO! 'Lock this thread'. Why? So you won't cry? There's so much bias here it's stupid. We look at 4 or 5 boards here at work or something and this is by far the last one of the list. There are lots of guys that are on all the other boards at the same time but you don't see as many of them here, now I know why. Some guy who's a publisher runs this thing and some guy who can't even fab a simple welding cart becomes a moderator! Popularity over skill I guess right? My 6 year old kid could make a better cart out of elmers glue and popsickle sticks than that. and he becomes a moderator? That tells me all I need to know. I sling iron, it's my job. I cuss I swear I sometimes get in fights but I do my job and I do it well. I take pride in that. If someone tells me I did something wrong I listen and fix it or explain why my way is better. I don't dispute him if he knows what he's talking about even if he doesn't use kind words and hurts my feelings because I'm a MAN and that's how we work. If your feelings can't take it get a desk job and leave the welding to the rest of the MEN to do it for you.

Pete

Pete, I'd bet that I would get along with you real well in person or over a couple of beers, but I think you missed the intent of my comments. I put up with guys puffing their chests out like roosters at a **** fight and settling things like "MEN", but I don't think that it is efficient or productive. Everyone should be polite enough so that we never get to the point where incivility allows "disciplinary action".

At least that's how my mama raised me.... rest her soul.

Andy should be a fine moderator. He does not need to weld better than me to do that job well. In my short stint here I've formed a very good opinion of him.

I will repeat, I think censorship is wrong.:nono:

[joebasssssssss]

Hey BOB, how come you deleted your post? Thats what you do best isnt it? Hide and deceive to make yourself and the site look better. Some very valid points have been made here about the way this sight is run. Threads locked, posts deleted, VALUABLE members banned. Bull$hit. I've been banned twice so far and was here from the beginning. Banned for what? Not bowing down to zippy, mzone and the rest. Anyone that really wants to LEARN is doing themselves a severe disfavor by listening to the socalled expurts here. My two cents ban me again, I'm sure you will, but you'll be too busy all weekend.

[jamlit]

Hey BOB, how come you deleted your post? Thats what you do best isnt it? Hide and deceive to make yourself and the site look better. Some very valid points have been made here about the way this sight is run. Threads locked, posts deleted, VALUABLE members banned. Bull. I've been banned twice so far and was here from the beginning. Banned for what? Not bowing down to zippy, mzone and the rest. Anyone that really wants to LEARN is doing themselves a severe disfavor by listening to the socalled expurts here. My two cents ban me again, I'm sure you will, but you'll be too busy all weekend.


Why is it that you only join to make things difficult rather than do some real good here. You always seem to start something right from the start. You criticize other people posts, yet do not post anything of value yourself. You expend energy and time for what. If their in someone you don't like here, then just leave them alone and try to help others. I know you are capable of it as I follow some other forums. I dealt with a mod on the Miller site, so I have an idea of how they feel about somethings as well.

I am tired of some of this crap and wish things would start to work different. We don't all need the get along or agree on anything. Just show some respect. It's not that hard. Voice your opinion, fact, and thought and then move on.

[Bob at WeldingMag]

A quick word about the role of moderators. They are not chosen for their skill, because the moderator's job is not to lead the discussion. The moderator's job is to be here in case people need help and direction. We don't pick 'em for popularity OR because they are the best welders here; we pick 'em for the way they manage themselves online and they way they communicate with others.

The skill must come from the members.

I'm making this point because our moderators work hard and take a fair amount of abuse for the effort. If folks want to take shots at me and the site for the way we run it, go right ahead. But please understand the role for which moderators are chosen.

[J Hall]

Good Idea!

Go make yourself useful for once in your miserable life..:waving::laugh:

...zap!Join date Jan 2006 posts 8291

Now there is a good example of site leadership.:)

[zapster]

Thank You..:cool2:

...zap!

[pinklilly11]

Yeah really, Mark8310 & Joebassssssssssss what's your problem? If you think the site is useless then stay on the other ones.

No reason to insult Bob, Zapster, or the as you call them "favored" people.

I haven't been on here in a while. A few months ago we had drama, now drama again. I'm telling you some of you guys are worse than the soccer & play group moms.

I don't care where you work, what you do, how much experience it comes down too, it's a matter of respect.

[Bob at WeldingMag]

Joasssss,
Hide and deceive? Are you kidding? I proactively put my actions out there for everyone to see and comment on -- knowing this would be the result. I deleted my response to one of those comments because I decided to resist the temptation to get in the last word. I want to listen to the members and honor their opinions, and I decided that responding to every comment wasn't in that spirit. So I took it down.
What can possibly be wrong with that?
I'm not arguing with any of the points that have been made here. I'm listening and taking far more of it to heart than you could know. Because if, in my honest efforts to do right by this community I have somehow done wrong, I intend to learn from it and get better.

On second thought, I'll argue with one point: the one that implies you are, or have ever been, a valuable member of this community. I've reviewed every post you ever made here: All 7 of them at the time you were banned. Not one of them made any mention of welding. All they did was cry about how your friends had been treated unfairly at this site that you hate so much. (Rhetorical question: If people come here, provoke trouble and ask to be banned, are they being treated unfairly? Or are they merely getting their wish?)
You aren't a valuable member here and you never were. You are a guy with so few prospects and so little to do that you can't come up with a better activity than spending your entire weekend on a website you claim to abhor. You are a troll.
You try to bring me down by mocking me for being a publisher? You can't. I'm proud of what I do, and I'm honest about who I am. I've made a public joke about my lack of welding experience, so don't think it bothers me or surprises anyone else. You, on the other hand, claim to be a welder and yet you've never shown any proof of it.
No, I'm not going to ban you at this time. You can stay here and put up or shut up. If you're so good, then post something that has anything to do with welding. Post something that will actually help someone else at this site become a better welder. Post something that builds up, rather than tears down. Go ahead. Surprise us all by posting something that has anything to do with a torch, an arc and electrical current. I dare you.

Hey BOB, how come you deleted your post? Thats what you do best isnt it? Hide and deceive to make yourself and the site look better. Some very valid points have been made here about the way this sight is run. Threads locked, posts deleted, VALUABLE members banned. Bull. I've been banned twice so far and was here from the beginning. Banned for what? Not bowing down to zippy, mzone and the rest. Anyone that really wants to LEARN is doing themselves a severe disfavor by listening to the socalled expurts here. My two cents ban me again, I'm sure you will, but you'll be too busy all weekend.

[joebasssssssss]

Well BOB, I was talking about the valuable members as a whole, not implying just myself. You know who they are. As for trolling the whole weekend? C'mon buddy get real. One post on a Fri. night. Never said anything about you being a publisher either. Can you read?
As far as me putting any info here you're right because I have always felt that this was a much weaker forum by far. Touted as a professional forum, with very FEW full ltime welders. I too come to these boards to learn. What am I gonna learn here with the current crop of internet expurts? How to use acetone and TIG using a positioner and an ancient machine? Use 7018 for CI? How great pulse spray is for everything under the sun? Zippys beads are OK at best, lots of undercut and no out of position stuff. David R, I wont even go there. Zap is a hack with little regard to the consequences of what he does. He is no fabricator, and I have little respect for him. Even less with his holier than though attitude.
Heres my website with some work. Hasnt been updated in a while, and I sure dont post everything I do. No need to. I am almost too busy lately as it is.

www.jdwelding.com

[Mandau]

I would rather put trust in Moderator and site leader in this site... running a forum is not easy and take patience and good judgement...

[tmarks11]

As I understand it, bob, you may be a great "publisher" (debatable).... you personally know next to nothing about welding, engineering, or fabricating, and you've done a pretty good job of deleting, banning, and disciplining several (more than a few) truly professional welders, engineers, and employers, all of whom have more knowledge in their little fingers about welding...than you'll ever know....Gonna ban me??????? I won't go away....
nice call out there.

It always cracks me up how sme people go raving about first admendment rights and censorship on "public" forums. Yet none of this applies. You want the freedom to say what you want, then start your own forum and pay for the bandwidth (assuming you ever get more then your self and your "buddy" to partcipate).

Publically calling out the owner of the forum is pretty low taste. You are a guest in his house, how about a little civility? Bob has a lot more patience than I would have, your IP address would be banned for life if I was him (of course then you could still sneak off to the library so you could make a couple anonymous attacks at him).

This is Bob's backyard; he pays the light bills and is probably paying through the nose for the bandwidth so people like you can throw mean-spirited punches at him. If this forum becomes more of a pain the a benefit (and I am betting that his company is seeing almost no return on investment) then he will pull the plug.

So how about you vote with your feet and go find somewhere else to hang out so you don't ruin this place for the rest of us?

Keep up the good work, Bob. I want you to know that I appreciate your hard work (and the $$$ you throw at this forum). Ignore the minority (even when they keep sneaking back under new names... got to like those random drive by shootings by the "new" members and their "buddies at work" with the same IP address...)

[zapster]

[QUOTE=joebasssssssss;187493]Well BOB, I was talking about the valuable members as a whole, not implying just myself. You know who they are. As for trolling the whole weekend? C'mon buddy get real. One post on a Fri. night. Never said anything about you being a publisher either. Can you read?
As far as me putting any info here you're right because I have always felt that this was a much weaker forum by far. Touted as a professional forum, with very FEW full ltime welders. I too come to these boards to learn. What am I gonna learn here with the current crop of internet expurts? How to use acetone and TIG using a positioner and an ancient machine? Use 7018 for CI? How great pulse spray is for everything under the sun? Zippys beads are OK at best, lots of undercut and no out of position stuff. David R, I wont even go there. Zap is a hack with little regard to the consequences of what he does. He is no fabricator, and I have little respect for him. Even less with his holier than though attitude.
Heres my website with some work. Hasnt been updated in a while, and I sure dont post everything I do. No need to. I am almost too busy lately as it is.



Interesting website my friend..:rolleyes:

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...zap!

[Black Wolf]

Not stepping into the discussion, but the link to the website works perfect for me.

I took a spin around and looked at all the examples of previous work, the various smokers, pictures of the shop & equipment, and viewed the old website.

I had seen the old site before, but the new one is much nicer.

I didn't have to alter browser settings or anything, just selected the link that Joe provided in his post.

I dunno.

[DDA52]

Site came up fine for me. Nice site, nice shop.:cool:


Zappy, that reply was a perfect example of why this stuff keeps on going. No one will drop anything. If you are going to be called site leader, act like it and lead by example. Let it go. You already know the guy is fired up. Your reply was nothing more than throwing gas on the fire. :nono:

[zapster]

OK I will give you that..
Yes it's time for all to grow up once again..

But in reality..
I tried the site again..
Same result.

Now I dunno..

...zap!

[Black Wolf]

Site is Allergic to Cats? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[David R]

David R, I wont even go there.
www.jdwelding.com

Yes...... Go ahead...... :)

Not fuel on the fire, I am curious. I work, take pics of it and post em. Isn't that what we do? If its not right, speak up and I will be better for it. My goal, be a better weldor. I have learned a LOT here and hope I helped a few along the way.

The website came up for me. Lots of nice equipment.

David :)

[zapster]

Look..
EVERYONE.

I don't run the place Bob does..
I'm not a moderator..
I'm just titled Site Leader..

Maybe I should act like one..

We have alot of members here that could care less aabout all this name calling and whatever..

This whole "episode" started with a job that I did and posted and now regeret doing..
Not so much for the job but for what has happend here lately..

So to everyone I'm sorry..
I still have that "Hockey Player" attatude as to say
"If your gonna hit me I'm gonna hit you back" Heads UP!!!!
Plain and simple.

If its a clean check then so be it..
Dirty stuff..Well then we drop the gloves.

I don't ridicule ANYONES work here unless they ASK FOR IT.

There is just a bunch that have a personal vendetta against me and thats OK.

By the way.
Joebass

I did get the site to work finally..
Nice shop I wish where I work was that clean.

If you don't like what I post then fine and dandy..
We all have opinions..
There is no "glamor" in what we do everyday..

So just go about your buisness and leave it be for now..

I'm sure in the future we'll be at each others throats once again..

To the community that actually cares about this site..
I speak for Myself..
I'm sorry for stirring the pot as to say..
I've said my piece and leave it alone now.

...zap!

[joebasssssssss]

David, You really don't seem like too bad of a guy, and I genuinely think if you had started out on other forums you might have better looking stuff. THAT IS THE MAIN PROBLEM HERE! All the head bowing and AZZkissing when pics are posted. Your vertical ups always look a litle cold. You most definatley need to work on gun angle, stick out, and hand steadyness. Pulsed GMAW is NOT for every application. Maybe do a little more short circuit where the puddle is more controllable. You seem to have a handle on it but need some work in the appearance dept.

[tmarks11]

...you might have better looking stuff....
How about some close-ups from that bbq you have posted on your site so we can see how it is supposed to be done (have you sold it yet?).

[David R]

I guess the best thing I can say is Thank you. :)

David :)

[mark8310]

You know, I really didn't mean to start this whole ****storm here .....

Tmarks, yeah, you have a valid point, I remember a man I have a great deal of respect for, Pilebuck, Carl, the original one (not the one registered on this board), saying essentially the same thing, over on Miller a couple years ago, (I forget the actual context or who he was directing this to) "it's THEIR board, not yours, and whatever THEY want to do with it, fine, take it or leave it." BUT,,,,, This IS advertised as a "professional welders" board ......

I think Mr. Hall summed up my feelings in a nutshell:

Oh, why can't we all just get along and have fun? Who cares if some moron offers idiotic advice to some poor guy that doesn't know any better? So what if he gets hurt? so what if someones POS trailer comes apart on the road and hits YOUR family.
We are all just here to bond, not actually LEARN anything.
As long as we are all polite it will be just peachy

Now let's all put on our sunscreen and go weld some cat carriers

And then you see the response from one of the "favored", "elite" members of this board ....

Go make yourself useful for once in your miserable life..

I happen to have a great deal of respect for Mr. Hall, in fact I just had a nice email exchange with him regarding a repair on a Cat 992 loader ... He is a professional, I am a professional, and if Bob or anybody else wants to see truly professional participation, it's very simple, you have to allow it, you have to encourage it; even if what they post or advise contradicts certain arrogant, favored members of the site.

And if certain things are to my mind are wrong, or just simply dangerous, whether to the operator or to the user or to the general public, well, yeah, I'm gonna be a little "strong" about my opinion, just like certain members here have been in the past, sometimes you just gotta get the point across,,,,,

Good example ..... Mr. Powelson gave probably the best "fuel tank welding and cutting clinic" I have ever seen previously on any board ...... with very specific proceedures, I myself haven't done near the number he has, but I have done my share. Everything he said, is right. Period. He was very nice about how he said it, course in a normal, rational, message board, everybody would notice, and realize he's right, correct?????? Ha, there were, and are, still people posting "just wash it out", or "fill it with water", or "air it out, run exhaust thru it", etc. etc. How many people, actually took note of what he said, and went out and bought an oxygen/LEL meter???????? Or even made arrangements to rent or hire one????

So you gotta wonder, every once in a while, actually pretty often, there's something in the news about somebody blowing themselves up, did they get their faulty information from one of these boards? That maybe somebody who knew better, saw it, and didn't rebut it??? And didn't say it in strong enough language to be noticed, and stick in the brain???????

So unlike some, I have no problem with stupid questions (unless its the same dam question over and over, by the same dam poster), everybody's gotta start somewhere, but it's the stupid advice, proceedures, and work, coming from supposedly experienced and competent people, being presented as the best and the brightest. Problem is, anybody who disputes anything presented by the "establishment" of the board, is almost immediately branded a "troublemaker", and according to Bob, the posts are "reported", and he deals with them accordingly. I think there are a lot of tender sensibilities on this board, and really, I think the sensitive stuff you should leave for the interior decorating board or the flower arrangements board ..... fit right in :cool:;)

And yeah, once you really get to know me, I'm really the fuzzy sensitive type, ask anybody ..... :laugh::laugh:

[joebasssssssss]

tmarks11, Was that a jab? Of coursew the cooker is gone. I run a business, I dont build things unless I get paid or its for myself. As to see how its done, there are plenty of textbook examples on the other boards of spray GMAW. Pulse dont look much different. Just for your info, I have a Miller Invision 354 MP, unlike some of the members of this board I will not post something unless I know it to be right. If I'm ever wrong I am man enough to admit it.

[smithboy]

Some guy who's a publisher runs this thing and some guy who can't even fab a simple welding cart becomes a moderator! Popularity over skill I guess right? My 6 year old kid could make a better cart out of elmers glue and popsickle sticks than that. and he becomes a moderator? That tells me all I need to know.
Pete

This starts out to Pete, but it concerns anyone who is interested as well...Pete, I am only one of the moderators here, but here is my take on some of the many issues brought up in this thread...

It would be great if all that was needed to be a terrific moderator was the ability to weld. If that were the case, weldingweb and every other welding forum on the web would be overflowing with outstanding moderators...but, the problem is that, as others have explained, weldors are not always the most tactful of folks when it comes to giving or receiving advice, especially advice on behavior. I am assuming you are talking about me here...I am the only moderator that is not a professional weldor...I have never made any claims to being a good, much less a great weldor. I just like to do it. I tried my hand at welding for a living when I was fresh out of high school, and although I loved the work, I didn't love the danger of working a few dozen feet above a hard surface. Call me chicken...:blush2: Now, most of my welding is confined to farm implement repair...rusty, crappy, worn out, implements that should be recycled, but they ain't broke bad enough yet that my dad will let me haul them off for scrap...anyway...You may have intended the welding cart comment above as an attack, however, I didn't choose to take it that way. Let me assure you, however, that I could build a welding cart...However, I would need to start out with pitted, rusty metal, just to keep me in my comfort zone.:D

As far as discussions are concerned, I have never interfered with a heated discussion that stayed on topic. When professional weldors disagree about what is or is not good practice, I read, learn and form opinions of my own based on the merrits of the arguments presented. Personally, I think the only time there needs to be any interference is when heated discussions transition into personal attacks. Regardless of how "Politically In-Correct" anyone claims to be, everyone here deserves to be treated with respect until they show that they are incapable of or unwilling to treat others with the respect that they demand for themselves. Again, it's my personal observation that attacking members often proceed or follow their personal attacks on others with "I'm just a simple weldor, I just tells it like it is"...these are often the same folks that get upset when they get crapped on by someone else using the same phrase. There is another phrase that folks in the South use right before or right after they uttery slam someone...it's "bless his heart." It's like it makes anything, no matter how personally injurious or how hurtful OK to say. E.g., That M.F. is the stupidest S.O.B. I have ever known, bless his heart. Saying you aren't accustomed to being civil is not an excuse for not being civil. That kind of atmosphere doesn't promote open discussion. Incivility simply breeds incivility. It promotes mob rule...that's not beneficial to anyone, professional weldors or hacks like me who just enjoy reading everyones' posts.

The job of the moderator is to keep the site from devolving into chaos and to delete spam. You could think of it as putting out fires and taking out the trash that nobody wants (including incivil members). We aren't (well, I aren't) in the business of censoring...but, CENSURING is something we sometimes have to do, because bad behavior is something that, if not addressed, will infect others that aren't generally badly behaved. We don't do it lightly. We also don't do it without discussion. When it comes to censuring, there is typically a pattern of bad behavior...not just a single angry moment...anyone can have those.

Does weldingweb favor anyone...Well I can assure everyone that there is no list of folks that we do or do not favor. If there is, I haven't been made aware of it. Moderators and Site Leader alike face the possibility of rebuke if any lines are crossed. We face it from each other and from Bob and from the other site administrators (not to be confused with moderators). In fact, we are held to a higher standard of behavior than the members, as it should be. If we can't behave ourselves, why should we expect others to. I like to think of my job like the link below...it helps keep things in perspective :blush:.

http://www.despair.com/worth.html

What about personally...do "I" favor anyone?...I personally favor ANYONE who post their work and make an effort to give and recieve constructive criticism well. This includes a whole bunch of members here. I don't think any of the moderators are "stalking" anyone or "overlooking" bad behavior that is habitual. Some of you probably think that Zap gets special treatment, but he has also been rebuked a time or three for bad behavior in the past...I only say this because he has already admitted to it, otherwise I wouldn't comment on it. But, it remains true...all of us are subject to the rules.

Do good weldors get themselves into trouble here? Well, sometimes the answer to that is a big fat yes. There have been very good (albeit, VERY good) weldors that have gotten themselves hopelessly embroiled in a conflict and could not back themselves away. Some these folks have even started their posting lives here with personal attacks. Some attacks were issued because "someone needed to be set straight." My answer to that is...OK, state your case and leave the personal attacks asside and you will hear NOTHING from the moderators, NOTHING...A great weldor is a rare commodity, but a great weldor with patience and the ability to overlook the trivial, and self-restraint is rarer still. It is troubling to see folks come through here with such tallent, but only interested in scuttling someone else. I have been more than impressed with the abilities of some who have been banned for their bahavior. The truely unfortunate thing is that if they could have controlled their own behavior, they could have been among the most prolific memebers here. I am, by no means, opposed to a little friendly competition...in fact, I like to see someone post something and say, "beat that!" Those kinds of threads are fun and are among my favorites.

However, when people complain about how "bad" weldingweb is, the only thing I can say is that only YOU can make it better, but...YOU have to choose to do so. Post your work...be helpful...be civil...provide constructive criticism...receive constructive criticism...We all fall a bit short from time to time, but when someone establishes a track record of doing their best in these areas, they generally get the benefit of the doubt when they stumble. I personally think weldingweb is very good and very informative, but it has a wart here and there...all forums that I have seen do...but, I am just a moderator, so, take that for what it's worth.

Anyway, I am sitting in a coffee shop and my battery is getting CRITICALLY low...forgot my power cable...so, I look forward to good discussion...;)

[tmarks11]

tmarks11, Was that a jab? Of coursew the cooker is gone.
No, I think that was a fair question. The for sale listing for that cooker represented a large percentage of your site and was the only project that you had with a lot of detail shown. It was a very large cooker, and I was wondering if you had sold it.

[zapster]

The next round of coffee is on me Smithboy!
I can't help with the batteries..

...zap!

[aczeller]

smithboy, i couldn't have said it better... i DO have to disagree with you on one point tho... you are NOT the only "non-professional-welder" in our little group of "favored ones". i haven't picked up a torch for a single customer project in my life.

as for the quality of my welds, i know for a fact that a few on here have been trying to directly, yet non-openly, attack me for the quality of my welds, or the lack there-of. bottom line, i don't care. if you have a problem with them, then that's one thing. if you provide some sort of constructive/productive criticism, then great! i welcome all the help i can get. no one ever learns anything from being great. i am sure that Zap can agree with me on that. BUT, when i get nothing except personal attacks, remarks like "your welds suck", and comments that are not meant for anything besides starting something, then drop it already. get off your high horses and get over it. 'nuff said.

daddy, and all other "supporting cast members" here, thanks for the support. i do not claim to be the best welder, but i am trying to do what i can.

Later,
Andy

[Sandy]

Mean while, down below question after question go unaddressed because all of our 'natural born pros' are up here in this piss and moan thread.

[spuddown]

Some guy who's a publisher runs this thing and some guy who can't even fab a simple welding cart becomes a moderator! Popularity over skill I guess right? My 6 year old kid could make a better cart out of elmers glue and popsickle sticks than that. and he becomes a moderator? That tells me all I need to know. Pete

I've never really thought welding ability needs to come into play on being a good moderator. I've always held Smithboy in the highest regards as a mod. He says he can't weld that good. I could care less if aczellor can weld. Its neither here nor there.

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=18675

If you read his posts on this thread it shows why he has no business being one. This is his typical arrogant B.S. Seems like everyone gets to call William names though. He may bring it on himself but I could argue the same about a few others.

[admswelding]

Yes...... Go ahead...... :)

Not fuel on the fire, I am curious. I work, take pics of it and post em. Isn't that what we do? If its not right, speak up and I will be better for it. My goal, be a better weldor. I have learned a LOT here and hope I helped a few along the way.

The website came up for me. Lots of nice equipment.

David :)

david if your goal is to be a better welder keep practicing.:laugh:

[Brett]

Its Chinese Zap

"Wireless bridge wireless network product wireless wide band equipment Australia studies abroad гранит"

[zapster]

Its Chinese Zap

"Wireless bridge wireless network product wireless wide band equipment Australia studies abroad гранит"

:laugh:
I thought it was Martian..:alien:

...zap!

[aczeller]

i was going to vote soviet... those commie... lol

Later,
Andy