View Full Version : Any ford techs? Help!
Here's the basics. After a lot of planning, I got my new work truck. Because of problems with the body company instead of an '07 Ford with the 6.0 diesel I end up having to get the '08 Ford with the 6.4 diesel/auto. I wanted to get a F350 cab and chassis but I could not find a body company that would put my body on a F350 chassis. Instead I would have to get an F450-550. An F550 from the body Co was 4K less than the closest price from anyone else on an F450 or even an F350. Ok I could live with that and get 4.30 rears instead of the stock 4.88's. Everyone I talked to suggested that I should be in the 12-14MPG range from their exp. and the difference in the 2 models was in the springs and axle capacities, same power train.
WRONG unloaded the truck weighs 11K, 12K loaded and gets 8mpg at best. This is killing me on fuel with the current prices. From the best info I have gotten from others on line, F350's in this weight are getting 13-16mpg + with 4.10's same motor and trans. F450's in this weight are getting 12-14mpg with 4.30's same motor and trans. My old 2000 7.3 got 15-19 in this weight range, the body just won't fit on it.
The F350, 450 and 550 have the same power train, other than the rears. 4.10's and 4.30's are close enough that I think the numbers should be close (within 5%). I know that the 450's are rated 25HP under the 550's. I'm thinking that the computer specs on the motor and trans are the biggest differences. Since I will never have the truck over 13K the way it's laid out and don't tow, I am trying to get someone who knows, to tell me what the differences are in the motors so I can go about hopefully changing the truck to suit my needs.
The Ford mechs say talk to corporate or they can't do anything, Ford Motors says I need to talk to the dealer techs. They have no real interest in solving the MPG problem as they are already getting setup for the new 2010 diesel.
With Ford having problems on the motors, I don't want to void the warranty if I have any other options. After market stuff all want to increase HP or increase towing capacity. I want to decrease HP or better yet get the shift points more in line with what the truck actually carries. Basically put the Ford stock 350 or 450 computer info into my truck.
I'm hoping someone here has some good suggestions. None of the Ford forums has given me any good suggestions beyond the increase HP, remove the DPF. None of which will keep the warranty and I doubt that it will solve the real underling problem which I think is the trans shifts and the high HP for a "heavy" truck.
I'd also be interested if anyone knows a link for a builders manual for the 08/09's. I couldn't find a Ford dealer who understood what one was when I asked to see one when I tried to order the truck. I want hard specs on the 350, 450, 550's. so I can fight with Ford.
Thanks in advance.
05-24-2008, 01:52 PM
I'd have the technicians check the regen cycle as Ford as well as other are still having issues....... you are not going to be able to do anything to the ecm's and keep the warranty.....ANY aftermarket program changes to the ecm will void the warranty.... and not just with the dealer that finds it ....the WDS that is used to trouble shoot them will send your trucks info to FoMoCo. before the technician even finds it..... and the 6.4 is a better more reliable motor than the 6.0.
Any idea if the ecm's come programed from Ford or if the programing has to be put in after one is replaced? If they are preprogrammed I'd gamble on the ecm for a 350. My hope is to use a Ford program as opposed to aftermarket.
I know I'm sort of dreaming here. It sucks when my buddies Kenworth triaxle at 80K gets better MPG at 9 than my 12k Ford.:cry:
05-24-2008, 02:21 PM
the WDS went out the window 2 yrs ago the new is the IDS. As for the regen situation the truck had to be reprogrammed before it left the dealership. any changes done to any part of the truck will damnnear void the warranty. as for the wrong programm being put in that cant happen neither the pcm nor the IDS will allow the program to go through. all numbers and codes have to match for the program to complete. the trans. and all shift points are controlled through the TCM which i did not deal to much with being a diesel tech. As for the 6.4 being more reliable than the 6.0 that has yet to be seen ............. I have all my stuff in storage cuz i am moving and cannot get the specs that you need
05-24-2008, 05:22 PM
Well since ford has plans for discontinuing the 6.4 for exactly this mileage reason, I guess your screwed. I have friends who just baby thier trucks, and still they get a whopping 11 mpg. While you can reprogram the computer, remember to uninstall the program if you take it for warranty work. There are several different brands and several that don't reprogram the exsisting computer, which is nice in that you just unplug it before taking it to a dealership.
The programmers also affect the trasmission shift points so you don't loose torque. This is the primary fuel saver.
If you drive like a grandad, you will save fuel. If you drive like you stole it, you can watch your fuel go down, and funds out the window real fast
My 7.3 was getting 11 mpg, now with a super chip program, and another 100 horses, that mileage jumped to 15, then I added a 4" exhaust and S&B intake, that boosed the mileage to 18 in the city.
Though I don't think any of the forementioned add ons will help much, as that truck is plain fuel thirsty, should have kept the 7.3 or switched to the duramax, as it has great power and economy, + there aren't really and bugs to speak of. Thats what I was going to get before this 2003 F350 7.3 4x4 came up.
Yeah I am kicking myself for not picking up a 2002 F650 with the 7.3 now. It was a much bigger truck and stick, but I think I could have lived with it now. My old 7.3 was a SRW and wouldn't have taken the body I wanted. Still have the 7.3 and drive it as often as posible with it getting 15mpg stock compared to 8 on the new truck driving like theres an egg under the pedal.
05-24-2008, 06:28 PM
Diesels like air. Ya gotta get more air into it to improve your fuel economy. One way without voiding a warranty is put on a cold air intake system & a exhaust system. 6.4 Stroke's need at least a 4" downpipe, prolly closer to a 5" to get the heat away.
No other changes would be necessary, no turbine housing changes, no changing the fuel maps, or computer controls. Get an EGT gauge & see what it's running now. Then call someone that knows diesels like Banks, Bully Dog or the others that supply aftermarket parts for diesels. Tell em what you are trying to do, they may be able to help.
Diesels are different than gas engines, as they require much more air to get better mileage. That's where the power is made to a certain extent, but without adding more fuel to the mix, more air in/out should help a bunch.
05-24-2008, 11:39 PM
The Magnusson act will not let the manufacturer out of your warranty for swapping rear end gears. You can get a Ford shop to do it, and it will be covered under warranty. This is the same issue as the guys who lift their trucks, and then dealerships say they won't cover things like a blown engine, or a failed electronic device. Only part they will not cover will be the rear end gears, unless, like I said, get a dealership to do the swap for you. I have access to 2 different Fords right now. The F450 with a 12ft bed on it, and an F350 dually with a big box setup on it, 8ft. bed. Both trucks are sluggish, and need a good dose of pedal to get them moving. The F450 gets 11mpg, maybe 14 empty. The F350 is pretty sorry, it gets 13 at best, on the freeway at 65mph on cruise control. My own truck; the Dodge? It gives up 21 on the highway, empty. But, pulling my boat(6,000lb) it still forks over 15mpg. And it pulls from the second you step on the pedal, no waiting for the turbo to spool up. Everyone I know who installs a full Banks system on their Fords get a reward on fuel mileage. And even though...who really cares about rocket like acceleration on a work truck; they get a bump there also.
05-25-2008, 12:36 AM
if you can find a used 350 ecm,i'd try it. i think they advertise different hp ratings .
Thanks everyone for the thoughts so far, keep em coming.
Rojodiablo, swapping out the rears is one of the things I considered even before I bought the truck. It's a 4x4 so that means doing both rears, $2K if I can use a stock gear. The best I have found so far is 4.10's. Not worth the money in my opinion for maybe a 5% inc. That leaves a custom cut set of gears with the $$$ attached. Question then becomes how fast to get the rears cut. I debated the 4X option because I figured I might have to swap the gears but decided it was better to get it now rather than want it later when I plow.
I have thought about a Gear vendors OD for the truck as it will act as a 2 speed rear. I believe one would run me about $3500-4000. About 20% OD, but I think I will only see most of the advantage at speeds over 55. Anyone know anything about the possibilities of a 2 speed rear in a F550 with an auto?
I am trying to get the info on the rear in the truck but not getting any good info thru ford. I guess that means I've got to take the truck somewhere and have them throw it up on a lift and look at it.
05-25-2008, 09:40 AM
DSW, I hate to say it, but I'm afraid that the power train electronics are so integrated, that a ratio swap could make things worse. It could take the engine out of the programmed power band, drop the trans out of high gear early, etc...
FWIW I asked my buddy about his ‘07 650. I know it's a different animal, but still a small low truck, Cummins and automatic, low 19.5 tires, 4.33 gear. Says he's getting about 11mpg @ 65mph, hasn't noticed a difference between empty and loaded yet.
05-25-2008, 09:47 AM
Look around on this site..
Lot's of Ford tech's there..
05-25-2008, 11:11 AM
Go here for the 6.4 Ford Diesel Bible:
Here for the 6.0 & 6.4L Powerstroke Manual:
Theory about mileage & good discussion about the amount of boost applied:
All your other questions regarding the Ford Diesels:
Hope this helps a bit.
05-25-2008, 10:12 PM
you may be able to get 10% ratio change just by going to larger tires.
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.