View Full Version : I hear you knocking, But you can't come in... (To the shop!) Engine failure pics
06-30-2008, 02:04 AM
I wouldn't plug up Mechanic's Park with this petty post, but when an observer, and probably the guy who's going to change the engine, heard it running, he kept saying: "I can't believe it... if I didn't see it, I wouldn't (unintelligible) believe it, holy (unintelligible)". I asked him several times what he meant, but he just kept repeating himself. Figured if it was that interesting to him, ya'll might want to see it!
Diesel tractor/loader, threw a rod and locked up the engine, the blocks wasted. But a dead machine is a bear to move around, and a seized engine is no fun to unbolt. So... it had to run for just a little longer.
Diagnosis: Relatively minor external flesh wound, caused by severe internal trauma. Certain loss of oil pressure through open vein at #4 journal.
Block looks bad, but that's just a flesh wound.
With some field doctoring, the patient should be able to revive and seek further care .
Dr. Denrep starts by cutting to extract the most severely damaged internals:
Piston remains sent to oil sump.
Piston removal too graphic to post!
Tourniquet applied to rod journal, to prevent internal pressure loss; also keeps down oil spray from open vein, while running:
Secondary injury initially went unnoticed:
On the way out, the rod took the suction filter with it.
Looks like it's done it before!
Emergency bypass performed.
Patient revived and stabilized. Directed to move very slowly, and to seek immediate care, at better equipped facility.
Once the transplant is underway, I'll try to update with complete report of internal
06-30-2008, 03:42 AM
I can see why he was dumbfounded now. Very knowledgeable on your part Denrep!
06-30-2008, 07:20 AM
Brings some flash backs to the days of working on some drill rigs out in the field. Do whatever it takes to finish drilling the hole for the day and stay up half the night trying to fix it in the swamp or muck pit or where ever else it decided to take a dump. Them drill rigs never did break down out in an open field, only in the nastiest of locations.
06-30-2008, 12:05 PM
I love it! Great approach, quite resourceful.
06-30-2008, 02:55 PM
I learned (well, at least learned ABOUT) a new trick today. That was a great post. I wish my doctor was as good!!! He ain't.
Craig in Denver
06-30-2008, 03:35 PM
"I can't believe it... if I didn't see it, I wouldn't (unintelligible) believe it, holy (unintelligible)".
Thanks, I'm astonished. Impossible comes to mind. :drinkup:
06-30-2008, 08:37 PM
Quite impressive Denrep!
You make it seem so easy.:cool2::cool2:
06-30-2008, 09:08 PM
I bet that was a one vibrating SOB when it fired up.
My father did that to a Toyota LandCruser years ago, we drove it around town to see if everything else worked. He also loosened the rocker arms on the affected cylinder.
07-06-2008, 12:21 PM
...Once the transplant is underway, I'll try to update with complete report of internal
Here's the jewelry box:
Notice that the rod's big end, still has one bolt intact and tight.
Looks like the bearing spun, rod fatigued, bolt stretched, and finally broke.
But why the early bearing failure? The rest of the engine looks fresh.
It sure started easy after I extracted the rod, had good oil pressure and no smoke; didn't seem worn out. The failure deserves a closer look:
The rod's numbered 3, but came out of 4. No big deal, but a clue that a "finger poker" has been in here. Now look closely at the match between rod and rod cap:
The cap is narrower than the rod, and is flat rather than radiused on the end; I doubt that it's an OE match. Also notice that the cap is narrower than the rod, making for a step at the parting line sides. The rod's side surface was certainly a poor match for the crank journal. Seems like the rod and cap were made for two different width journals. Balance would be anybody's guess.
I don't know this engine's history; but I'll bet that it was rebuilt with two #3 rods, and the caps were mixed up at assembly. I couldn't look because the engine was cribbed up for parts swapping, once they're done with it, I'll check and report. :waving:
07-06-2008, 05:36 PM
Denrep, I cannot find the words to describe your work here, so I will just say "Thank you for the pictures and insight of your recent -----(still cant find the words)
removes hat and holds it over heart
07-07-2008, 02:54 PM
Nice macro pics!
Prelim guess on possible cause(s):
- mis-matched cap, rod, and/or crank;
- bad bolt (Chinese bad bolt from the era of bad Chinese bolts which led to the bolt documentation/paperwork law?);
- bad assembly like under or over torquing that bolt;
- combination of any or all of the above.
That's a weird assymetrical neck-down on the snapped bolt. Or is it just an image 'artifact' from the lighting/shadows and possible missing chip/flake from the fracture area?
07-07-2008, 07:22 PM
My wife was mowing with our 12 HP Briggs & Stratton powered mower several years ago. She told me to come listen to it because it was making a weird noise. I went and cranked it up.
Turns out, the governor flyweights had come apart in the crankcase. This did two things: it made a hell of a racket when they came out the side of the block, and the throttle went wide open. I was afraid to get close enough to it to shut it down, as I expected it to blow up any second. It was smoking and spraying oil everywhere, then the rod finally let go...
07-07-2008, 10:54 PM
Awesome field "adjustment"! Excellent failure analysis too!
I don't want to stir up trouble but I sure would want to learn about the wrench who did the previous rebuild. I'd want to avoid procuring anything that wrench has serviced.
07-07-2008, 11:32 PM
Denrep, I cannot find the words to describe your work here...
...(still cant find the words)
Mark - Cobble job, jury rig, Rube Goldberg... is that the word you're looking for? :D
Mondo - I'll check it out for a rebuilder's tag or stamp.
I'll let you "call ‘em on the carpet" if we find one! :laugh:
MoonRise - When I can get at it, we can continue the autopsy!
I once limped in a blown-up 413 Dodge truck under it's own power. Turned out the crankshaft was broken in two, the main web was also broken out of the block. It was like two engines running, the front cylinders running the camshaft etc., the back pulling the truck. That was one of the worst blown engines I'd seen, until just last year; only the head was holding the most recent one together. Yes... only the head! I'll get a pic.
It's been my experience that most sudden mystery failures, can be traced to human error; either operator, or repairman.
07-08-2008, 10:16 PM
...That was one of the worst blown engines I'd seen, until just last year; only the head was holding the most recent one together. Yes... only the head!...
This one, I believe the piston went first, then the rod went around like a hammer-mill breaking the block.
07-09-2008, 01:37 AM
...and the driver said "I shut it down as soon as I felt a vibration" but couldn't explain the 2+ mile trail of oil and water leading down the road from the service plaza where he was parked and called the shop.
Terrible fate for the 60.
07-09-2008, 08:55 AM
Duane55 - Oh,you talked to him, huh? :laugh:
You probably noticed that the computer was knocked off the side of the block, so it had to quit running then. Also, most of the hoses and wiring were pulled into one compact ball. The other side is just as bad. If you look carefully at the first pic, you'll notice grass visible through the "window".
I may have a pic of it still in the truck.
07-09-2008, 10:03 PM
Not him in particular but I've heard a few lines like that.
I have to admit - I missed the no computer and didn't see the 'thru-hole'. I was too awestruck by the 'picture window' on this side.
Amazing 'field operation' on that tractor/loader driver btw.
07-09-2008, 10:07 PM
iv said it before and ill say it again ... HOLY BALLS
that rod is wasted!
07-12-2008, 01:08 AM
Denrep, thank you for finding the words I was looking for.
I just thank heavens for the very existence of people like you because without the likes of you we wouldn't have any classic vehicles left to play with.:angel:
I better go to sleep now because I feel an early morning junk yard visit coming.:D
08-04-2008, 06:56 PM
Duane55 - Oh,you talked to him, huh? :laugh:
You probably noticed that the computer was knocked off the side of the block, so it had to quit running then.
In motorsport either the vehicle manufacturer or the engine builder would say the vehicle retired with "Electrical Failure" or "Computer" as it sounds better in the press. Those in the know usually say "yeah, it was electrical, the distributor failed, (the conrod got it on the way out)"
08-04-2008, 08:35 PM
Great read, totally amazed at the first aid to get her in the shop.
I know I see alot of dollar bills on the repair, but more on time lost in the shop.:eek:
Get er done and I have a need to hear the final report..:p
08-05-2008, 12:19 AM
Amazing project you got into there Denrep!!!
08-05-2008, 01:26 AM
It's finished and running, with an engine change.
I did the band-aid work so it could limp in, and I repaired the cracked housing, but I didn't perform the actual engine change.
I was thinking about saving the block and making it run again, as a WeldingWeb only, exclusive feature. Unfortunately it wasn't practical. Once the engine was cleaned, a fractured was found on the other side, along with a previous weld repair in another spot.
I'll post the pics some time.
08-05-2008, 08:31 AM
your roundy round goes up and down thing done went sideways.
08-25-2008, 11:09 AM
Nice write up Denrep. What kind of rod are you going to use to weld it all back up? ;):D
10-16-2008, 01:03 AM
All I can say is wow and bravo:drinkup::drinkup::jester::D
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