220 service

[spider]

Hey there I need some advice on installing 220V service to my garage.
I recently purchased a 220v mig welder but I lack 220V service in my garage.
Max draw amps for the welder is 22amps.
So I purchased a 30amp double pole breaker, 60ft of 10-2 romex, and a 50amp welder receptacle picture of it here:
welder receptacle (http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL849/3233451/6608116/85565177.jpg)
So I have three questions
1: Is this the correct breaker and wire to use?

2: Is it safe to use a 50A female receptacle with a 30A breaker?

3: I plan on running the 10-2 to the garage (all of the 10-2 will be indoors running along my unfinished basement ceiling) into a jbox located in the garage. From the jbox I plan to wire 25ft of 10-3 (3 wire) cabtire so it will act as a hard wired extension cord so I can move the welder around. I'm using cabtire because it's alot more flexible than romex.... Finally to my question. WIll I notice power loss due to the line being so long (60ft + 25ft)?
And should I ground the jbox or is it safe to just mount it to the drywall and simply pigtail the ground wires to the screw in the jbox?

I thank you all for reading this post and greatly appreciate any helpful advice given.
Regards,
Dave C

[dforbes]

1.no
2.no
3.yes if it works at all

1 and 2 -50 amp receptacle requires a 50 amp breaker, #10 wire is not near big enough for this application. Also the longer the run the bigger the wire will need to be to carry the load. I would take the breaker back and talk to the people where you bought it. They will be able to give you accurate information as to what you need. Running 60 ft I would think you may need #6 wire in your main run and #*8 in your final run.

[embeddedguy]

Longer runs create a bigger power drop. This is especially significant with higher currents. If this is a 220 volt line, you will need at 3 conductor cable! Never use the conduit as a ground/neutral return! This is dangerous because the screw connectors at each junction run the possibility of coming loose ... hence, an intermittent ground, or no ground at all. I would use at least 8/3 for this application.

Never use a receptacle that has a higher current rating than for the current capacity for which you are installing! There is a reason why the NEC designates different plugs/receptacles for different voltages/currents. This 220V 50A receptacle will allow any device with a mating plug to be attached. That device will be capable of drawing 50amps. Bad news if the wire and/or breaker cannot handle it! If you are installing for 220 30A, then only use a 30A receptacle.

Me? I would run a 220V 50A line with 6/3 to a 50A receptable in the garage. From there I would attach the mating plug to my welder. If you ever want to use a higher current device, the capacity is already there.

Hope this helps!

[dforbes]

Longer runs create a bigger power drop. This is especially significant with higher currents. If this is a 220 volt line, you will need at 3 conductor cable! Never use the conduit as a ground/neutral return! This is dangerous because the screw connectors at each junction run the possibility of coming loose ... hence, an intermittent ground, or no ground at all. I would use at least 8/3 for this application.

Never use a receptacle that has a higher current rating than for the current capacity for which you are installing! There is a reason why the NEC designates different plugs/receptacles for different voltages/currents. This 220V 50A receptacle will allow any device with a mating plug to be attached. That device will be capable of drawing 50amps. Bad news if the wire and/or breaker cannot handle it! If you are installing for 220 30A, then only use a 30A receptacle.

Me? I would run a 220V 50A line with 6/3 to a 50A receptable in the garage. From there I would attach the mating plug to my welder. If you ever want to use a higher current device, the capacity is already there.

Hope this helps!


Well put, Thats what I was trying to say

[Sberry]

I would run a 220V 50A line with 6/3 to a 50A receptable in the garage. From there I would attach the mating plug to my welder. If you ever want to use a higher current device, the capacity is already there. Its a good idea sometimes especially since some may assume its a true 50A circuit without verifying wire size, but its legal to use smaller wire for welding machines. Never use a receptacle that has a higher current rating than for the current capacity for which you are installing! Thats ok but it isnt a NEC quote. You are never allowed to use a recept with a rating smaller than the breaker size. You can use smaller wire for welding machines but not smaller recepts. Larger recepts are fine. The conduit is a legal ground fault return path, it certainly isnt a neutral return under any condition. Millions and millions of circuits use conduit for grounding.

[Sberry]

So I purchased a 30amp double pole breaker, 60ft of 10-2 romex, and a 50amp welder receptacle picture of it here: Yes, this is a legal circuit. Its the way it should be wired if the machine came with a 50A plug on it, in fact it could have up to a 50A breaker if needed depending on the machine that was connected to it.

[spider]

Yes, this is a legal circuit. Its the way it should be wired if the machine came with a 50A plug on it, in fact it could have up to a 50A breaker if needed depending on the machine that was connected to it.
The machine did come with a 50amp plug on it. I'm fine with replacing the 30amp breaker with a 40 or 50amp breaker but I don't wanna have to replace the 10-2 wire already installed.
Here's what the manual reads
http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL849/3233451/6608116/86374508.jpg
I don't understand why a 40amp breaker is recommended when 22amps is max input.
Will my set up work safely? And why do people keep saying to use 10-3 gauge when my welder receptacle only has 3 prongs?

[dforbes]

I tried to look at your manual but it didn't open for me. I'm sure if it says you need a 40 amp breaker thats what you need. Also you 10-3 wire because it is a 220 circut. This means there are 2 hot wires red wire is hot and goes to breaker, black wire is hot and goes to breaker, White wire goes in bottom prong on plug and grounds inside breaker box where other white wires are.

[spider]

I don't need 10-3 (4 wire) cable. The welder has a 3 prong plug two hot and ground. Why is it that when I think all is well with this situation, someone comes along and posts a negative comment.
Is this going to work safely or not?!?!!

[dforbes]

I am sorry that you think I am making a negative comment. I was just trying to answer your question with the information I had. So what you have is
10-2 with ground. Whether you realize it or not you can buy 10-2 without ground which is called 10-2. This is only 2 wires. What you have should be safe. I hope it works for you.