PDA

View Full Version : Backhoe mounting / welding advice



Tractapac
08-04-2008, 09:56 AM
I have a Case/Davis SD100 Backhoe, which would have been from one of the 4 wheel ride on Case Trenchers originally. It's a four point mount i.e. it would have been rigidly mounted but still removable. I'd like to mount it on a tractor but of course the three point linkage on a tractor is not rigid. I have a hydraulic post hole borer that mounts via a rigid frame to the three point linkage and ties up the three points to make it rigid. At this stage I need to clear some re-growth from some shallow drains, so there's no real heavy digging forces.
My idea to date has been to weld some 3/8" mild steel strips to the framework of the backhoe, to mount to the post hole borer mount and so to the tractor. Probably two strips to form a channel to go either side of each upright on the post hole borer mount Any suggestions as to what I should use to weld to the backhoe frame, please? I have a choice of stick 1/8" or a 160amp maximum mig.

Sample photo of a Davis SD100 Backhoe on a Trencher as I've just found I don't have a picture of mine.

22487

By removing the Auger drive, red cylinder and drilling boom, it will leave me the two sleeved pivot mounts at the top of the uprights (3/4") and then a second lower mount on each side using either the lower uprights themselves or even the mounting points for the tractor's lower arms.

Or are there any other suggestions?

22488

Jolly Roger
08-04-2008, 08:53 PM
Without being able to look at it myself I can't really offer any design advice. I predominantly work on heavy equipment and would recommend using 7018 sticks. It handles the loads and stresses well. I prefer Lincoln Excalibur myself.

Tractapac
08-04-2008, 09:02 PM
Without being able to look at it myself I can't really offer any design advice. I predominantly work on heavy equipment and would recommend using 7018 sticks. It handles the loads and stresses well. I prefer Lincoln Excalibur myself.

Thanks Jolly Roger, I'll have to cross reference that with what's available locally. Just to confirm, when you say 7018, is that a rod that conforms to AWS 7018?

Jolly Roger
08-04-2008, 09:48 PM
The actual electrode is Lincoln Excalibur 7018 MR and holds AWS classification E7018 H4R. All Lincoln mild steel stick electrodes are numbered according to their AWS classification

Sandy
08-05-2008, 12:04 AM
Just because I'm slow, it sounds like you plan on making this a three point set-up ?? Sounds like not a direct connect three point but via an 'auxiliary' frame work?

That'll be interesting. Show a pic or two of the basic would ya?

I had an old case/davis crawler, trencher backhoe for a short while. Bought it for a buck, did a little over 400 feet of my own trench and sold it for around eleven hundred. Can't remember the price any more. That was like 1987 or '88. I thought it was a 100 but maybe not since it was a crawler.

Tractapac
08-05-2008, 06:51 AM
The actual electrode is Lincoln Excalibur 7018 MR and holds AWS classification E7018 H4R. All Lincoln mild steel stick electrodes are numbered according to their AWS classification

Jolly Roger, today I found that down here we get Lincoln Conarc 49C classed to: E7018-1 H4 R And, how about this: Also available in Sahara ReadyPack (vacuum sealed) and they're made in Holland.

The last pack of their 6013 rods I got were called Pantafix and were from Poland. Nice rods too.

Tractapac
08-05-2008, 07:19 AM
Just because I'm slow, it sounds like you plan on making this a three point set-up ?? Sounds like not a direct connect three point but via an 'auxiliary' frame work?

That'll be interesting. Show a pic or two of the basic would ya?

I had an old case/davis crawler, trencher backhoe for a short while. Bought it for a buck, did a little over 400 feet of my own trench and sold it for around eleven hundred. Can't remember the price any more. That was like 1987 or '88. I thought it was a 100 but maybe not since it was a crawler.

It might be yours I bought,as the price was close!

Herein follows some photos:

Shows the Post Hole Borer on the tractor. It also doubles as a mini-crane. When drilling holes, the three point needs to be locked solid to give downwards pressure to the auger.
22530

The mount for the drill is held in the lower arms and the 2" bar mounts in the top link and is pinned in the mounting frame and hence the three point assembly is "locked" solid. The Post Hole Borer can lift the back of the tractor, so the assembly is pretty solid.
22533
22532

This is the Four Point mount on the backhoe and would have mounted to four fixed points on a trencher. The previous owner added the black RHS on the bottom and it fitted over the drawbar on his tractor to steady against the two lower arms. However I'm looking for more solidity in the set up. I'm thinking of welding two pairs of upright 3/8" strips, about an inch in from the original mounts, gapped to fit the uprights on the Digga mounting frame.

Tractapac
08-05-2008, 07:21 AM
Attention Moderators or whoever does it.

This is now a live project and I wonder if it would be possible to move it to the project thread, please?

Rojodiablo
08-05-2008, 11:06 AM
Attention Moderators or whoever does it.

This is now a live project and I wonder if it would be possible to move it to the project thread, please?

You got it!! Thanks for the good pics and info.:D

denrep
08-05-2008, 12:52 PM
If you could attach the backhoe directly to the tractor's main-frame or axle casting, you would be better off; no sense punishing the hitch with the strains of backhoe operation.
How about a clear pic of the back of the tractor.?

Outriggers are another issue. Originally the trencher probably used the backfill blade as a stiff-leg to keep digging loads off the axle. Also without outriggers, as the boom swings to the side, with the bucket full of dirt, you could have a tipping hazard. Maybe not, it's difficult to judge the size of things in the pictures.

How about the operator? Where will he sit, and where will his legs be?

I'd start by cribbing the backhoe up at operating height, then back the tractor up to it, for some intense study and measuring.

Good Luck

mark8310
08-05-2008, 01:30 PM
It is possible, to hook that three-point, directly to the backhoe frame, and make the three-point rigid.

I'll try to describe it, if you are really interested, I'll get some pics later this week that illustrate what I'm talking about.

Basically, you just run two heavy bars from the two lower mount areas, and bolt solid to the top link, at whatever position you want to lock the three-point in. BUT, you then have to be absolutely sure, you lock the three point control handle down, or if using a electric/hydraulic control, pull the fuse out, to disable it, otherwise bad things can happen.

This triangulates the frame, and makes the lift-arms immobile, in the up and down direction.

EdKing
08-05-2008, 02:27 PM
You hight also want to think of a subframe mount. That is how mine hooks to my tractor. Part hooks on under the drawbar, and a frame runs up an hooks on where the engine and trany bolt together. Spreads the stress out to prevent busting any of your 3ph parts. I can post some pics of mine if you are interested.

Ed

HARRY BARKER
08-05-2008, 06:00 PM
does the tractor mfgr.offer a backhoe attachment????
if so,see if you can get some pics of it.

Tractapac
08-05-2008, 08:09 PM
Thanks for all your replies.

I'll take some snaps of the back of the tractor today, well as good as I can without removing the forks off it. Just one word of warning, think small. The seat height is a 28''. It's an 85hp tractor but is in "orchard" configuration, low and relatively narrow. Rear track is in the order of 4'6" so sub frames etc are a mission. Plus there are belly pans under it to protect from vine mulchings getting in places where they shouldn't be. There's probably only 6" ground clearance. (It love to sit on its belly in the mud!) Hence my idea of using the Digga mount as it locks the three point up and is behind the tractor.

I'll answer more of your questions when I get back in. Yesterday I set the Digga mount to it's tractor mounting height and today I'll set the backhoe up to a possible mount height and then I can get a good look at what's possible.

Most likely operator position will be beside the rear wheel and reaching over.

Here's a snap shot of the rear but you can't see a lot:

22539

Tractapac
08-05-2008, 08:11 PM
All pictures would be welcome and appreciated. The more info and ideas, the better

Hammack_Welding
08-05-2008, 11:01 PM
I don;t know that your auger frame is gonna be strong enough for the back hoe to mount on. I would build a frame that will adapt your four point mount of your hoe to the three point hitch of your tractor. you can stabilize your three point hitch by building the mount so that it bolts to the draw bar as well as hooking to the lift of the tractor. You just need to make sure that the lift lever can not be hit while it is working. I will see if I can find some pics of how the few i have seen were done. Another issue is the outriggers, as mentioned above you need some sort of outrigger to stabilize the tractor while digging. Another thing to think about is whether or not your tractors hydraulic system is gonna be able to handle the backhoe. A hoe is gonna use alot more fluid than what most tractor mounted implements do. It may not be able to keep the fluid cool. Just something to keep in mind. ~Jackson

Tractapac
08-06-2008, 09:47 AM
Some great links and suggestions, thanks to all of you.

I'll post some shots I took today, to give you an idea of the scale of the tractor. Although only a little larger than a lawn tractor, it's still the real thing. Small but perfectly formed!

The Case-IH 3230 (this one = 65hp) was also an 85hp tractor with a larger motor. In Europe the Goldoni is also marketed as a JD. So they must rate it ok.

22557

22558

You'll see the degree of crampedness in the rear end shots. Also the low ground clearance. Only about 29" between the rear tyres.
25cm = 10" The Rear Linkage will lift 2.5 ton.
22559

22560

No welding yet, but I've had my unwelder out, both the 4" and 7".

22561

Tractapac
08-06-2008, 10:11 AM
http://www.bushhog.com/ContentFiles/Documents/Manuals/Backhoes-650-750-850-950.pdf

Ag tractor mounting of backhoes starts at bottom of page 25. Schematics and also useful info about proper hydraulics.

http://www.messicks.com/bushhog/BH650%20Backhoe.aspx

This page shows sub frame kits for many different tractors. Might give you some ideas how to weld up your own. Good luck.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/onefunzr2/IMG_0011.jpg

My track machine weighs more than 8500#'s and I know the backhoe attachment could easily flip it over. I used it to raise the right side to replace some undercarriage parts, as the track weighs 265#'s.

Great links, I'd googled before and seen some of the BushHogs but not any documentation.

Last year when they were ready to harvest maize, a lot of the fields were so wet that they had problems with ag tractors and some people managed to get tracks to fit and get through the paddocks ok. We don't see many tracked machines in the North island, more in the South Island, where there are some much larger farms. There is a tracked Cat here but it mainly tows a sort of stump grinder around paddocks, cuts them down to about a foot or so below the surface. These are old stumps from hundreds or thousands of years ago that come to the surface gradually.

Specially for you 69 Chevy, Goldoni also make a tracked machine for vineyards that's only 36" wide.

22562

Jolly Roger
08-06-2008, 11:05 PM
Jolly Roger, today I found that down here we get Lincoln Conarc 49C classed to: E7018-1 H4 R And, how about this: Also available in Sahara ReadyPack (vacuum sealed) and they're made in Holland.

The last pack of their 6013 rods I got were called Pantafix and were from Poland. Nice rods too.

I didn't realize you were in NZ when I posted that (was totally lost on the need for cross referencing but now understand). It sounds to me like it is probably the same electrode. I also use quite a bit of Harris 7018 (a division of Lincoln) and it is my second choice in 7018. It is made in France and I have heard that Lincoln is THE name in welders over there. I have a little 110v Weldpak HD and it was made in Poland. I gave 250 bucks for it new and got laughed at by my business partner and my son. I've probably made 10,000 with it. Not a bad return, lol.

I would be real interested in seeing how you accomplish this rig up. Sounds like an interesting project.

Tractapac
08-07-2008, 08:49 AM
A lack of progress today, left the Memory Stick at home, so no photos.

Thought I'd enlarge the top mounting holes from 1" to 1-1/8" (Cat 2) but the drill wouldn't touch it from brand new. So Plan B, (originally Plan A but then after the idea of enlarging the holes, to keep pins standard, demoted to Plan B), get pins reduced in diameter to 1".

Rang a mate and got use of his lathe, a drive there and back and the pins were the right size. Dummy fit up and looking reasonable but a lack of suitable materials, for bracing, so the hunt starts in the morning for more 1/2" flat bar and possibly something bigger. Off to see if the local engineers have anything available as I don't want to buy full lengths. Steel has risen by approx 60% in the last three to four months.

Jolly Roger
08-07-2008, 09:13 PM
It's not just over there Tracta. Bought a 4' X 8' sheet of 12ga Tuesday and it was 149.56. In the last two years my prices have pretty much doubled.

Tractapac
08-08-2008, 07:13 AM
Talking to a scrap dealer today, they're paying $350 per ton. Couldn't find what I was after there but had a look in one of their dumpsters and there were several pieces of 3/16th mild pate 8in x 4ft and got two of them for $10. They're in the shed now. Bought a piece of 3/4in plate at a structural steel firm, 4.5in x 36in, $50 I was told this was their cost price and that it had doubled in the last year.
Diesel is up 80% over the last year too. Unleaded 91 gas is $2.02.9/litre NZ, about $7.66 per US gallon and $US5.45 per gal. and it's dropped 16c/ litre in the last two weeks but diesel has only dropped 4 - 6 c/litre.

Tractapac
08-10-2008, 09:21 AM
Today's progress: someone else's broken weld, rectified. Adaptor plates drilled and test fitted.

The lower left mounts wouldn't accept the Cat 2 pin all the way through, so I thought "maybe if I give it a nudge....Ooh is that a crack?"

22619

Two blows with the adjuster later... Not much weld there was there? Last owners handiwork

22620

First welds with Lincoln Conarc 7018 rods, 1/8" approx 125 amps to start, vertical and then dropping to about 105amps for second pass.

22621

Only 1-1/8" inches between brackets and bad angle (well, that's my story) and a little clean up required.

22622

Adaptor plates in place. Cleaned up ready for additional top brackets. The camera lens angle has made the plates look out of parallel.

22623

Tomorrow, weld the plates to the mounting frame and get all the pins to line up - simple (not!)

denrep
08-10-2008, 11:53 AM
Wow, great progress!

The adapter plates look to have a simple clean design.

Once it looks like it's going to work, all the mounting ears will deserve a second look.

Keep us posted!

Tractapac
08-10-2008, 07:20 PM
Wow, great progress!

The adapter plates look to have a simple clean design.

Once it looks like it's going to work, all the mounting ears will deserve a second look.

Keep us posted!

Thanks for your reply denrep. Is that a precautionary second look, or are they a typical failure area, or because a couple of them have non factory welds now?

Tractapac
08-12-2008, 07:39 AM
Welded the additional pin ears on.

22697

22698

Tacked side plates onto frame and removed it for welding

22699

22700

I like it when the slag starts to curl up after me!

22701

Tractapac
08-12-2008, 08:05 AM
Welded it up and went for a trial fitting.

Oh no, it's pulled! I was hoping to get a little lateral location on the lower mounts but I got an interference fit.

22702

After a little judicious grinding (and a little yet to come!) it fits.

22703

I knew I'd find a use for these when I bought them a couple of years ago.

22704

Something like this

22705