what's with all the cheap measuring tapes?

[wagin]

These days I mostly see generic named tape measures on job sites. When I apprenticed in welding and sheet metal, 20yrs ago, my mentors insisted on having a quality tape measure,(Lufkin, sterret). My first day at work, I brought a no-name tape, my instructor pull my tape and his lufkin 10' or so, there was a 1/8" difference between the two. He then destroyed my cheap tape and dared me to show up tomorrow with sub-standard tooling. Has the quality of the 5 dollar tapes improved, enough not to purchase the 20 dollar tapes, or does quality not matter anymore???

[drivethruboy54]

my stanley tape is consistant with my empire framing square? Anything critical i normally burn ten, i never trust that first inch...

[tapwelder]

how do you know which tape was corrrect?

I wonder if the same company makes cheap measurer as brand name measurer.

I go through several tapes per year 5-7 bucks is the most I pay.

[TSOR]

I only use Stanley tapes. The Fat Max 11' reach is a nice feature. A little known fact about Stanley tape measures - they are guaranteed for life. If you break it or it wears out, you can go to any Stanley retailer and exchange it for a new one free. This is for the class A tapes only (Fat Max, etc..) If you divide that initial $30 into the amount of times I've exchanged it over the last 8 years, it's way cheaper than your $5 tapes.

[Woodshed]

I think the best thing to do is use the same tape until projrct is completed. If you use the hood on start of the tape in measuring then you do need to use that same tape during the project. Over time the hook on the end move back and forth and changing tape will mess up your measurment. That my 2 cents.

[mla2ofus]

Over time the hook on the end move back and forth and changing tape will mess up your measurment. That my 2 cents.

The hook is supposed to move to compensate for it's thickness between inside and outside measurements.
Mike

[STwelder]

If you measure the distance with a tape, use the same tape to cut the piece with.
Because some tapes do vary, for what reason I don't know.

[wagin]

how do you know which tape was corrrect?

I wonder if the same company makes cheap measurer as brand name measurer.

I go through several tapes per year 5-7 bucks is the most I pay.

Lufkin and like quality tapes are certified/approved by a national standard...It is marked on tape within the first 10 inches.

[wagin]

I think the best thing to do is use the same tape until project is completed. If you use the hood on start of the tape in measuring then you do need to use that same tape during the project. Over time the hook on the end move back and forth and changing tape will mess up your measurement. That my 2 cents.

If your project is designed and engineered..and working from such prints, the dimensions are specified. If your cheap tape is not accurate, the end results will be wrong, same tape or not.

[patrickp]

If your project is designed and engineered..and working from such prints, the dimensions are specified. If your cheap tape is not accurate, the end results will be wrong, same tape or not.

if i'm working with specified dimensions then i use a steel rule to get accurate results. otherwise i use the same tape measure through the whole project. and as you stated, if it's not accurate then depending on what your doing you just compound the problem and the results will be way off.

[Static-XJ]

At work we've got a 12"/11.5" tape standard. Gets sent out to an independent lab for certification either annually or biannually. Measures 12" when hooked, 11.5" to the inside. I just make sure to check my tapes periodically. I think using a different tape to check fitup is a good thing, can catch errors like a bent hook.

Since the topic has been brought up, has anyone ever seen a tape with 1/50" or 1/10" graduations in a length longer than 12'? I primarily use Stanley's with 1/32" & 1/16" on one side, 1/50" & 1/10" on the other. Would like one in a longer length, but it seems no one (Stanley, Starrett, Lufkin) makes them longer than 1/2" x 12'.

[awright]

My dad was a commercial artist painting the artwork that ended up as 24-sheet posters on billboards. Mostly Safeway Meat and California Wine Institute ads before photography took over the field. When he died I inherited his drafting equipment, including a very professional looking, but no-name 24" Stainless steel scale with 1/16ths, millimeters, Picas and Agate (printers) scales. This was not import junk - it has deeply engraved graduations and numbers. I got it in 1976 and he had probably bought it many decades before that - way before you could buy anything from China.

I don't do art or printing, but I did value the 24" and 61 cm. steel scales for shop work. One day I was going nuts trying to get something to come out using the metric scale, measuring and re-measuring repeatedly and getting different results randomly. I finally examined the mm. scale closely and found that there were six engraved 1 mm. graduations between 31.5 and 32 mm. Makes you wonder what the production process was for the scales. I imagine some guy with a green eyeshade manually engraving the scale at the end of a long day.

I don't know what lesson there is in that except that you can't have blind faith in anything.

awright

[denrep]

...I finally examined the mm. scale closely and found that there were six engraved 1 mm. graduations between 31.5 and 32 mm....

That's one for the books! :laugh:

[fewood]

I always check my tapes against a Starrett 24" ruler. That way, I know its me when when I measure twice and its still to short:dizzy:

Look to if it says "made in China" Melamine content less than 10 PPM:laugh::laugh:

[tapwelder]

All my tapes, except the task force form lowes, have the same stamp as that on the Lufkin.

The task force is the only one I noticed with an unlimited lifetime warranty.

Stood in Home Depot looking at Tape measures and comparing warranties. All their's have certified stamps.

good informaion in this thread. I'll have to take tapes for exchange.

[tanglediver]

When I did carpentry, I got used to Stanley Powerlocks in the 25' size. I have a new one in my old, retired carpenters belt/bag, just waiting for the old 25' Powerlock tape to bite the dust, it just keeps doing its job!! :D

BTW, don't bend your hook. A bent hook gathers no accuracy! :laugh:
http://toolguyd.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/25_powerlock.jpg

[farmersamm]

Stanley is the best. Bar None.

[duaneb55]

My dad was a commercial artist painting the artwork that ended up as 24-sheet posters on billboards. Mostly Safeway Meat and California Wine Institute ads before photography took over the field. When he died I inherited his drafting equipment, including a very professional looking, but no-name 24" Stainless steel scale with 1/16ths, millimeters, Picas and Agate (printers) scales. This was not import junk - it has deeply engraved graduations and numbers. I got it in 1976 and he had probably bought it many decades before that - way before you could buy anything from China.

I don't do art or printing, but I did value the 24" and 61 cm. steel scales for shop work. One day I was going nuts trying to get something to come out using the metric scale, measuring and re-measuring repeatedly and getting different results randomly. I finally examined the mm. scale closely and found that there were six engraved 1 mm. graduations between 31.5 and 32 mm. Makes you wonder what the production process was for the scales. I imagine some guy with a green eyeshade manually engraving the scale at the end of a long day.

I don't know what lesson there is in that except that you can't have blind faith in anything.

awright

Perhaps it was manufactured on February 29th.:rolleyes:

[mspohn]

I only use Stanley tapes. The Fat Max 11' reach is a nice feature. A little known fact about Stanley tape measures - they are guaranteed for life. If you break it or it wears out, you can go to any Stanley retailer and exchange it for a new one free. This is for the class A tapes only (Fat Max, etc..) If you divide that initial $30 into the amount of times I've exchanged it over the last 8 years, it's way cheaper than your $5 tapes.


Actually, I am a Stanlye Dealer and they are NOT Guaranteed for life against wearing out, only manf. defects. They send us a full color sheet each year showing pics of tapes that look new but have stopped working or broken and they will repay us for replacing those. If the tape looks worn out, has been dropped repeatedly or just abused, they will not let us replace it.

If you have found a dealer that replaces them, thats good, but Stanley will not repay them, they are doing it out of their pocket.

[specter]

Lowe''s kobalt brand has a lifetime warranty

[Burning2nd]

Starrett fractional \ decimal

[Fred Paul Jones]

Picture this. 5 guys framing a house. One guy is the designated cutter. 5 tapes read all different. So to solve the problem, all hook a 2x4 and bend the hooks so they read all the same at the length of the 2x4. So tell me what 37 1/2 inches + is? I don't worry about the pluses anymore as .045 wire takes care of it. I buy Lufkin 1 in x 25' tapes. Course I have measured with a micrometer and cut it with a torch. The mic was just handy in a 60ft shop. Great for lafts. Love the extra mm in the ruler. I never would notice less I swapped ends measuring.

[Nichvegas]

I learned a hard lesson last year that makes me do a double take on tapes. I marked fence post holes with my new HF 100 foot tape measure. When we tried to put up the first 16 foot board across two posts it came up a foot short. I looked at the tape and it read 1, 1, 2, 3 4,....... Lesson learned.

[William McCormick Jr]

I have both the Klein and the Komelon tape measure they look identical in shape, quality, and the Komelon is over a year old.


This is the Klein.

https://www.kleinconnection.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product1_10001_10001_-1_13851_18651_true_915-25_Tape-Stop™---Power-Return-Rule

The Klein actually has an extra little piece on the end that is a pain in the butt, if you try to stick it through a shear finger guard. But it is a nice tape measure.

This is the Komelon. I believe they are made by the same company.


http://www.komelonusa.com/#view=1;product=203;category=3;subcategory=200




Both superior to a Stanley. And I find both superior to the Lufkin Tape.

However I find the Lufkin wooden folding ruler a very accurate and useful device.

I beat these something awful. And they hold up well.

The retracting power and smooth stop is cool.



Sincerely,


William McCormick

[Sandy]

The average mylar tape probably changes at least 1/8th of an inch in ten feet between a warm day and a cold day. Or a warm room versus outside in the cold. So if you insist on accuracy you'd better buy steel and adjust for temperature before every measurement. :)

Of course whatever it is you are measuring is changing with the temp too.

[wagin]

if i'm working with specified dimensions then i use a steel rule to get accurate results. otherwise i use the same tape measure through the whole project. and as you stated, if it's not accurate then depending on what your doing you just compound the problem and the results will be way off.

Agreed, I use a steel rule for projects 2' or under. And again, I have encountered discrepancies between cheaper rules. What about projects 2' and longer?

[lugweld]

Having come from managing a farm with research related work involved, and having to have our measuring equipment certified, differences in tape measures may vary as much as 10 percent depending upon temperatures. A hot tape will measure longer than a cold. A cold tape may actually measure shorter than the true length. All certifications must be done at equal and controlled conditions. A tape measure worn on a warm hip, under a jacket or in the pocket will measure different than one left outside in a cold tool box.

[denrep]

...differences in tape measures may vary as much as 10 percent depending upon temperatures. A hot tape will measure longer than a cold. A cold tape may actually measure shorter than the true length....

10 percent? Even with a high quality tape?
25888
No wonder I have so much trouble getting it right!

[lugweld]

Vic's Secret ehh? Sounds like you tape may only have 42 inches or so.Those things are never right. Just ask the sixty percent of women who are wearing the wrong (too small) size. Maybe its because 60 percent of women can't read a tape, and just as many men can't either.

[Sandy]

10 percent? Even with a high quality tape?

No wonder I have so much trouble getting it right!

We need more info before giving usefull answer.

1) what you were measuring, was it hot or cold?

2) were your hands (and the tape) hot or cold?

3) what you were ordering, who was going to wear it, you or another person??

:D

[denrep]

We need more info before giving usefull answer.

1) what you were measuring, was it hot or cold?

2) were your hands (and the tape) hot or cold? ...

Sandy, So what you're saying is that it would be best to equalize all temperatures before measuring?

[Static-XJ]

Having come from managing a farm with research related work involved, and having to have our measuring equipment certified, differences in tape measures may vary as much as 10 percent depending upon temperatures. A hot tape will measure longer than a cold. A cold tape may actually measure shorter than the true length. All certifications must be done at equal and controlled conditions. A tape measure worn on a warm hip, under a jacket or in the pocket will measure different than one left outside in a cold tool box.

10% is an awful lot. Two and a half feet of variance in a 25' tape at different temps?

[Sandy]

Sandy, So what you're saying is that it would be best to equalize all temperatures before measuring?

Definitely!!!:)

[steve45]

We used 100' temperature compensated steel tapes where I used to work. We would use these to place megnetic marks on wireline cable, which was used to make measurements in oil wells. The magnetic marks were place at 100' intervals, and cable rolled over a calibrated wheel to measure how deep we were in a well. Every 100 feet, we would correct the readings from the wheel and the magnetic marks to insure accuracy. Cables were re-marked every month to correct for stretch, and after every use for the first 6-8 times a new cable was used. We claimed 1 foot in 10,000 accuracy.

Once, I had to go out and run tests on a well that had previously been logged down to 14,000 feet. The customer wouldn't let me see the original test in order to 'get on depth' with it, he made me go with my 'raw' measurement to check our accuracy. I was within 6" with the original run at 14,000'. Even I was impressed.

By the way, the temperature compensated tape had several zero marks on it, for various temperatures. Of course, the correction only applied to a full 100 feet of measurement.

[duaneb55]

We used 100' temperature compensated steel tapes where I used to work. We would use these to place megnetic marks on wireline cable, which was used to make measurements in oil wells. The magnetic marks were place at 100' intervals, and cable rolled over a calibrated wheel to measure how deep we were in a well. Every 100 feet, we would correct the readings from the wheel and the magnetic marks to insure accuracy. Cables were re-marked every month to correct for stretch, and after every use for the first 6-8 times a new cable was used. We claimed 1 foot in 10,000 accuracy.

Once, I had to go out and run tests on a well that had previously been logged down to 14,000 feet. The customer wouldn't let me see the original test in order to 'get on depth' with it, he made me go with my 'raw' measurement to check our accuracy. I was within 6" with the original run at 14,000'. Even I was impressed.

By the way, the temperature compensated tape had several zero marks on it, for various temperatures. Of course, the correction only applied to a full 100 feet of measurement.


Wow. Cool stuff. Whoda thunk?

[TSOR]

Having come from managing a farm with research related work involved, and having to have our measuring equipment certified, differences in tape measures may vary as much as 10 percent depending upon temperatures. A hot tape will measure longer than a cold. A cold tape may actually measure shorter than the true length. All certifications must be done at equal and controlled conditions. A tape measure worn on a warm hip, under a jacket or in the pocket will measure different than one left outside in a cold tool box.


10% !!!


I am calling BS on that one.

Maybe 1% in 100ft for fiberglass tapes. Likely closer to .1% in 100ft for steel.

In my experience, not enough to really matter for most things you would measure with a tape.

[lugweld]

According to the manufacturer's certification. Not mine.

[farmersamm]

Tried tellin' her it was 10% longer on a really hot day:D:D:D

[awright]

The linear coefficient of thermal expansion for steel is 10.8x 10^--6/degree Kelvin at 20 degrees Celsius (room temp). (Degrees Kelvin are identical to degrees Celsius except the reference level is absolute zero, or −273.15° Celsius, which is immaterial to this calculation.

For, say, a 40 degree F (67degrees F to 107 degrees F) temperature change, a 100 foot steel tape will expand 100X12X40X(5/9)X10.8X10^-6, or 0.288 inches.

It's up to you to decide whethar that makes any difference in whatever you are fabricating on a hot day.

awright

[steve45]

A hot tape will measure longer than a cold. A cold tape may actually measure shorter than the true length.

Nope, that's backwards. A hot tape will be longer than standard, but the measurement you read from it will be shorter. Likewise, a cold tape will be shorter than standard, resulting in a longer measurement.

[pilebuck]

If im working over the water I use a kinda ****ty tape, in the water a really ****ty disposable tape. Same thing in mud, cleaning em w/ wd40 really doesnt work that well. For fab work most of the time I just carry a 10 or 12' stanley because they fit nice in a pocket and I hate wearing bags. For I beams and cans a self retracting loggers tape is handy. But as long as the same tape is used for layout as for measuring the whatever It dosent matter. For critical stuff over big distances I make the surveyors do there job, set up a transit or a total station. I did a job one time where the surveyors used a gps device instead of line of sight equipment. I had them give me the same point a couple of times and varied by as much as 3/4". Gps for carpentry sucks.

[JeffB]

I have a generic version of the flourescent green one William McCormick linked to. Forgot the brand name but got it at Wal-Mart. Self locking is nice. Just have to keep an eye on the guys in the shop who are too lazy to make a mark, just leave the tape on it and start cutting with the torch. Of course, 1/4 inch off won't hurt much with what we do.

[scubaholic]

when i worked in the fab shop they supplied starret 16 ft tape measures and thats all u were to use no matter what

[HGHS-Corp]

Please... use your logic sense...a tape that is 8meters(315") will maybe expand 3-6mm(0.12-0.24") on the total 8meters, while going from 5C(41F) to 30C(86F).

And i don't know what the maths says, but it is logic sense.
Otherwise buy a measuring tape that is ANSI certified. :D

[William McCormick Jr]

Please... use your logic sense...a tape that is 8meters(315") will maybe expand 3-6mm(0.12-0.24") on the total 8meters, while going from 5C(41F) to 30C(86F).

And i don't know what the maths says, but it is logic sense.
Otherwise buy a measuring tape that is ANSI certified. :D


General Motors claims that their cars grow 1/8" on a hot day compared to a cold day.

Perhaps the other fellow meant that the change is over 10% of an inch. Or 10% of an increment.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[steve45]

OK, the thermal expansion coefficient for steel is: 0.00000645in/in/deg °F.

A 100' steel tape would be 1200 inches, and it would expand/contract 0.00774 inches per °F.

A 50 °F temperature change would cause a change of 0.387 inch.

[Knotbored]

A hot steel tape will measure a cold aluminum part wrong-but a hot steel tape will measure a hot steel part right, and a cold steel tape will measure a cold steel part right.
The problem is only when the steel tape and the steel part are significantly different temperatures.
If you take a steel tape from your warm pocket and measure a critical part in Adak Alaska at Christmas you will get it wrong!

[Brianstick]

I've got top of the line Starrett tapes and I have tapes that I got from the Dollar Store. For what I do around here they both work fine. We're talking about tape measures, not micrometers.

[wagin]

I've got top of the line Starrett tapes and I have tapes that I got from the Dollar Store. For what I do around here they both work fine. We're talking about tape measures, not micrometers.

OK, take your dollar tape and your Starrett tape, hook both to a common line, pull out 5ft, then 10ft, etc and see if the readings differ. I have seen cheap tape show .125 variations in less than 3 ft. Of course this false reading increases with distance. I have been required to produce sheet jobs with +/- .062 across several feet and I have pre-fabed jobs with 10" I-beams spanning 20+ ft. Even on large scale jobs, a .250 to .50 inch makes a great difference.

[Brianstick]

I tried tour your today up to 11ft. and guess what? There was no difference. I do see your point though. Maybe for someone like you it would be worth your while to stick with brand names. Personally I like the Stanley tapes, but when I go to the Dollar Store and see a basket of 16ft. tapes for a $1.00 each, I've got to grab a couple.

[bdeditch]

I always check my tapes against a Starrett 24" ruler. That way, I know its me when when I measure twice and its still to short:dizzy:

Look to if it says "made in China" Melamine content less than 10 PPM:laugh::laugh:

Thats what I do as well, I go thru a lot of tapes and have found that Sears will replace and tape in any condition that you bring them. I was a precision cutter in a metal shop and from the cooling fluid getting on the tape. it wasn't long before the numbers would disappear. We used to take back 6 at a time with no problems.

[ol' Stick Guy]

:jester: I have only ever bought Craftsman rules for my personal and outside work use they are quite accurate and cheap. At work our shop only buys Stanley and Lufkin. I find the tangs on Lufkins bend too easily

[Sparky#1]

I always use my stick rule for critical measurements and use a sharpened pencil to mark.;)

[Pipeliner]

Look at the hook after it falls of the table onto the concrete. That 1/8" bend on one side will mess with you after you cut a few pieces and they still don't fit....

[Tony Mo]

I'm brand new to this metal working stuff.

But for woodworking/carpentry I have a tape from Lee Valley Tools. They have them for left or right handers.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32563&cat=1,43513

[farmersamm]

I'm brand new to this metal working stuff.

But for woodworking/carpentry I have a tape from Lee Valley Tools. They have them for left or right handers.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32563&cat=1,43513

You know, I never thought of that. I've never actually looked at which side was up on the numbers on the tape.:cool2:

[gclamp]

OK, take your dollar tape and your Starrett tape, hook both to a common line, pull out 5ft, then 10ft, etc and see if the readings differ. I have seen cheap tape show .125 variations in less than 3 ft. Of course this false reading increases with distance. I have been required to produce sheet jobs with +/- .062 across several feet and I have pre-fabed jobs with 10" I-beams spanning 20+ ft. Even on large scale jobs, a .250 to .50 inch makes a great difference.

Especially when you are laying out the hole pattern for the bolt up connection. We always measured from one end of the beam. even for both sets of bolt holes. 20 - 30 ft beam with holes a 1/2" out of position can pull a column out of plumb alot.

[Quick]

In most cases you get what you pay for. On a large project in Chicago, one of my crews were laying out and installing all the floor attachment angles for the window wall system on a 85 story building. I always supply the tape measures . A new guy had started on the crew and thought his old trusty no name tape was better and used it instead. Well, his tape was off 1/4" in 4'. It cost me over $5,000.00 in labor to go back and rework his layout. Having all the same tapes for your own crew is not good enough. Other crews worked before you and after you. All the tapes have to be right. I stick to Stanley. The trusty no name tape was destroyed.

[drewp29]

I check our shop tapes against a Starrett 24" steel rule, that gets checked and certified every 2 years to NIST standards, but that doesn't mean that within 3 months time something couldn't go wrong with a worker's tape. Most of the time the worst I see is the end plate is bent, and I have them straighten it while I watch and then verify it to be square. As a rule we don't allow Mylar tapes, if we need an extremely long tape (greater than 35') then we have a steel tape that I also check. The Mylar tapes can change by a great deal if the operator is pulling while measuring. I like to see Stanley or Lufkin tapes, but since the workers buy their own, I have seen generic tapes . . . but the one's responsible for final dimensions always have a quality tape.

Drew

[Tony D]

I have to use the Stanley fat max tape measures worth the money hands down... Lowes just traded me for one the other day. the tab that holds the tape snapped off and that half didn't even have any rust on it lol....was a no reciept asked and well over a year old and beat up but it had no cracks and was actually bought to be used so chips,chunks,scratches but

no cracks thats use abuse would be if it was run over or exploded on impact but they bounce from 20' unlike the crapsman I use to use back in the day they would explode first drop garunteed to be going back to sears constantly, for a new one now they are still disposable and they call it abuse when they leave the roof on you .... The FAT MAX has never self destructed like that ever so I'm done with those crapsman ones for sure, and it eliminates having a yo yo holding the tape all day LOL...and they are pretty accurate for my needs....

But what we need is one with the numbers on the bottom ...for overhead measuring I hook on the truss or something and it falls off ....put it on the top of truss then you can't see the numbers without twisting it that helps accuracy and wear lol.. I guess ya gotta have the yo yo sometimes or helper :laugh:

[specter]

I have been using Stanley Fat Max Tapes since they first came out! But seems the end of the tape always breaks off long before the tape eventually wears out. Last year I made a switch over to the Lowe's Kobalt brand which has a Lifetime Warranty. This past week one of the Kobalt tapes starting catching on the inside guide and wouldn't rewind without assistance! On a 33' tape constantly rewinding up to 30' or more is a real PITA :mad:. I brought it back to the nearest Lowe's a got a new Tape without any hassles. I also see thhat Kobalt now has metal instead of plastic guides to guide the tape as it rewinds back into the tape measure.

When I 1st got the Kobalt measuring tape I compared my Stanley! Both were dead on as far as plus or minus 1/10" within 30'. So I am happy so far with the Kobalt tape, it performance and it's warranty.

[ronscons]

I am a licenced steam/pipefitter, a licenced millwright, CWB certified welding inspector/supervisor, with a bunch of other certifications and qualifications and have been inspecting/supervising for many years [25+]in heavy plant and piping industries- petroleum and pulp/paper fields mostly, with the odd foray into power generation, waste treatment and highway'bridge and dam construction and yes I have seen the "rubber" tape syndrome several times- the odd time it is a fault on the tape's part. Most of the time it comes back to good old human error and not adequately double-checking and triple-checking. Done it myself lots!!
But what boggles my mind is while there may be "rubber" tape problems, not many people ever think to check the veracity of the other most important piece of the measuring equation and that is "the level" [bubble sticks]! How many people use a $30 tape then grab a $3 level[?] ?? or the little adjustable try square with the little bubble ?? ot the lowly torpedo level?? You know, those things that get dropped off ladders, plastered with concrete, hit with a grinder and sometimes with a sledge, left on Cat tracks etc. etc.
There are ways to roughly check a level in a minute on the jobsite and that is put level on smooth reasonably flat surface, mark where ends are on surface, note exactly where bubble is in relation to cursor lines, then pick level up and rotate 180 degrees [end for end] and put level back down in exact same spot on marks, Note again position of the bubble in relation to the cursor marks. They better be exactly the same or your level is not true and accurate. As I said this will roughly confirm the level but it is a good idea to have the level checked by somebody knowlegeable in calibrations and standards. After all, does anybody really need another "Leaning Tower of Pizza" Next time your in the liquidaters, take a couple of the cheapy levels and stack em up together and SEE the difference! LOL

[MrLeadMan]

Worked in an ISO certified shop and their QA department came around and "calibrated" all your measuring tools once every 90 days. If calipers, micrometers, tapes, levels etc. didn't meet spec. they would send the item out for repair or they would buy you a new one. They supplied Starret tapes.

Shop I'm in now has no such system. I have a constant problem with saw cut parts varying. Few days back borrowed one of the saw hands tapes, NO hash marks for the first foot! I like to say that those guys think the hash marks are suggestions and the numbers are decoration.

[Fred Paul Jones]

I have two levels. One is 5/10000/ft, the other is 1/1000/ft. Accurate enough? Maybe. Who should care about tapes anyway, even a 25 ft 1 in Lufkin can be had for 6 bucks. Is that a cheap tape? Should I get Stanley? No wait the only problem is when me on the roof measure and call down to the cutter I need 26 1/16+ his tape reads like mine and his cut is as accurate. For steel I order more wire.

[LooseNuts]

Actually, I am a Stanlye Dealer and they are NOT Guaranteed for life against wearing out, only manf. defects. They send us a full color sheet each year showing pics of tapes that look new but have stopped working or broken and they will repay us for replacing those. If the tape looks worn out, has been dropped repeatedly or just abused, they will not let us replace it.

If you have found a dealer that replaces them, thats good, but Stanley will not repay them, they are doing it out of their pocket.

this is true. i used to work at a windsor plywood, and we constantly had guys in trying to exchange their tapes that they had hit with the saw, gotten all rusty, etc. spring breakage is covered but only if the tape doesnt look likes its been to hell and back.
haha they always complained that canadian tire would take it back. and id tell them, fine,take it to canadian tire. they are an hour and a half up the road, but im not going to dish out my bosses money cause you cant take care of your tape.

[TozziWelding]

We all use Stanley Powerlock tapes, everytime some one gets a new tape it gets calibrated to the QC tape per AISC rules.

[GREENMEANSGO]

i only use stanley fatmax. i consider them cheap tho... suprised yall dont. they are $9 at walmart.
i use to buy craftsman tapes for $1,000,000 but they got shoddy on their warranty. lastly any tool i buy i factor in the chance of it getting stolen within a year

[greenbuggy]

i only use stanley fatmax. i consider them cheap tho... suprised yall dont. they are $9 at walmart.
i use to buy craftsman tapes for $1,000,000 but they got shoddy on their warranty. lastly any tool i buy i factor in the chance of it getting stolen within a year

Chance? I'd be investing in insurance and a shotgun if I were you. Neither are too expensive on my $40k+ tool set.

[newton brawn]

"" I finally examined the mm. scale closely and found that there were six engraved 1 mm. graduations between 31.5 and 32 mm."""

Realy nice measurement device ! It is one of kind!

Thinking better it is a unique instrument.

Keep it with you.

[wagin]

I am a licenced steam/pipefitter, a licenced millwright, CWB certified welding inspector/supervisor, with a bunch of other certifications and qualifications and have been inspecting/supervising for many years [25+]in heavy plant and piping industries- petroleum and pulp/paper fields mostly, with the odd foray into power generation, waste treatment and highway'bridge and dam construction and yes I have seen the "rubber" tape syndrome several times- the odd time it is a fault on the tape's part. Most of the time it comes back to good old human error and not adequately double-checking and triple-checking. Done it myself lots!!
But what boggles my mind is while there may be "rubber" tape problems, not many people ever think to check the veracity of the other most important piece of the measuring equation and that is "the level" [bubble sticks]! How many people use a $30 tape then grab a $3 level[?] ?? or the little adjustable try square with the little bubble ?? ot the lowly torpedo level?? You know, those things that get dropped off ladders, plastered with concrete, hit with a grinder and sometimes with a sledge, left on Cat tracks etc. etc.
There are ways to roughly check a level in a minute on the jobsite and that is put level on smooth reasonably flat surface, mark where ends are on surface, note exactly where bubble is in relation to cursor lines, then pick level up and rotate 180 degrees [end for end] and put level back down in exact same spot on marks, Note again position of the bubble in relation to the cursor marks. They better be exactly the same or your level is not true and accurate. As I said this will roughly confirm the level but it is a good idea to have the level checked by somebody knowlegeable in calibrations and standards. After all, does anybody really need another "Leaning Tower of Pizza" Next time your in the liquidaters, take a couple of the cheapy levels and stack em up together and SEE the difference! LOL

Good point,
Myself, I check my squares against sterret precision, same with levels, torpedoes to framing, mics, calipers, etc.. when performing critical fits, I check trueness redundantly with multiple tools.

[wannabe_welder]

For 99.99% of the work done out there most tapes are accurate enough. If accuracy and precision are truly a factor you should be using equipment that is calibrated and stamped and has to be certified repeatedly to stay in compliance. Any tape that has a movable clip on the end should never be considered as precise, regardless if it's a Starrett, a Stanley, or a $2 toss away.

[Linepipe]

Could someone please tell me in basic language what that movement in the clip is for nad how to use it? All it does fo rme is screw up my measurements.

[gordon stephenson]

Hello Linepipe,
I'm sure this question has been mentioned before but:. The movement on the end clip should be exactly the same as the thickness of the clip, This is to ensure that the measuring starting point is the same: if hooked over the work or pushed up against an inside edge, no operator input required,

[transit]

People get into trouble measuring when they use two or more different tape measures. If the tape measure is out of true and you use THAT tape for all your measurements it will be auto correcting. If you switch tapes and transfer measurements from tape [A] to tape [B] any offset will through your work off. I’ve used taps with the first 2 inches cut off and everything was dead on. Stick to one tape or pull out the taps side by side on your fab table and compare all the readings. Any tape that is out of alignment…..toss it.

[Static-XJ]

People get into trouble measuring when they use two or more different tape measures. If the tape measure is out of true and you use THAT tape for all your measurements it will be auto correcting. If you switch tapes and transfer measurements from tape [A] to tape [B] any offset will through your work off. I’ve used taps with the first 2 inches cut off and everything was dead on. Stick to one tape or pull out the taps side by side on your fab table and compare all the readings. Any tape that is out of alignment…..toss it.

Except when you're building to a set of prints, not measuring to fit as you go. Then you need a tape that reads true. A good combination square blade is more than accurate enough to check a tape against. Checking tape against tape just tells you that at least one of the two is not correct, you need a more durable item to check against to determine which. And if you only keep known good tape measures around then it doesn't matter if you are using the same one, or two dozen different ones.

----

About a year or so ago I picked up a Starrett 600" long tape (50'). At my current job I work to prints, with everything dimensioned in inches. On the larger stuff this tape saves from having to convert measurements from ft. Just throwing that out there to add to the information in this thread, here's a link:
http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&&hs=Ezs&q=starrett+600+in+long+tape&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=EDcDS9SNI8yLnQfx77Rt&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CBwQrQQwAw
Lufkin makes a similar one, at around three times the price.

[Fred Paul Jones]

Not to worry there is more wire at the store. So measure it with a micrometer, cut it with a torch and weld it in place.

[racinjason44]

Just figured I would do a little quick see on three tape measures I had sitting on top of my tool box. They are all the same temp, about 50 degrees F. I checked them against a POS framing square, just as some kind of standard. Pictures and specifics as follows:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p80/racinjason44/CIMG1075.jpg

The contestants. The Lufkin is well used, it was retired after its one year tour of duty at a bridge fabrication shop. The 33" tape is a cheapy. I think I paid something like $10 or $12 for a four pack of various sizes. The other one is my favorite, the Stanley lever lock. I have another one just like it at work. The one at home is only a couple weeks old, and hasn't seen a lot of use.

The Lufkin:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p80/racinjason44/CIMG1076.jpg

Cheap tape:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p80/racinjason44/CIMG1078.jpg

Stanley:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p80/racinjason44/CIMG1079.jpg

Slight differences. The Lufkin and the Stanley are pretty close. The cheap one isn't off a huge amount, close enough for 99% of stuff I would use a tape measure on. Of course, this is only over 24", I don't know how much more it would vary over a longer distance.

[dbennett48]

In general,it really does not matter which tape you use. You must use the same tape for everything you are doing. Like measuring and cutting a board. If you use one tape you will be OK. Just DO NOT switch tapes in the middle of a job.

[Static-XJ]

In general,it really does not matter which tape you use. You must use the same tape for everything you are doing. Like measuring and cutting a board. If you use one tape you will be OK. Just DO NOT switch tapes in the middle of a job.

I completely disagree. Don't use tape measures that are not accurate. Get rid of them.

I mainly work with customer supplied drawings and blueprints. How am I supposed to hold ±1/16" with a tape that has its hook bent back 1/8"?

And a tape with a hook that has been bent back is going to measure 20ga differently than 1/2" plate.

If you use only know accurate tape measures then loosing or breaking your tape measure halfway through a job will not be a huge deal. Grab another tape measure and keep working. Otherwise you have to go back and remeasure everything done to that point with the new tape.

If the hook is bent you won't be getting accurate push and pull (inside/outside) measurements. There could be a significant difference between the two ways of measuring.

[burnandreturn]

A million years ago I was measuring some stock and when I was done I let the tape roll back up as fast as it could. It hit the end of the tape and the end piece pretty hard. My father walked over and took my tape and threw it in the trash and told me I just ruined a good tape. Of course I took the tape out and checked it and it was just under 1/2 millimeter too long. Lesson learned.

[Marcel Bauer]

I am a fabricator and for my in-coverall-pocket tape I have almost always used Lufkin Classic (after they started calling them "Classic") LC316 (3/4" x 16'). Used the same style of Lufkin since 1975 I think.

I have other larger and smaller tapes in my toolbox, but use the Lufkin the most often.

When I shop for a new one however, I ALWAYS take a scale with me to verify the tape. I always find one that is short, one that is long and one that is just right. They can vary by 1/32" in either direction, too much of a built in error for me.

When I have to be within 1/32" I can't have my tape eating that up for me even before I start work!

I need a new tape, and I don't even know if they make those anymore...

Accuracy is the most important thing for me, but I liked the ergonomics of that tape design.

[kenklingerman]

I'm surprised how many guys are talking about issues with the end/hook of the tape. I'm in the habit of ignoring the end of any tape or scale. I start at the 1" mark or 1' mark.

too many things can be off at the end of a tape or scale.

I had a machine shop teacher once take a scale out of my hand and place it at the 1" mark for example and said "in my class nobody uses the end of a scale"

[LooseNuts]

for small stuff that i can hold on the 1" mark i always do. but you cant always do that and thats where the hook on the end comes into play. i dont do anything that needs to be within 1/16" thoguh.
all the guys on the crew im with use stanley fatmax or lufkin

[jnoon]

Haven't been here in yearrs, boy lots of reading to catch up on.

one thing I did not see mentioned about measuring tapes and that is missing numbers. Have a friend who fabricated a a building with 12 columns and only after a survey did it come to light that the building was a foot short.
He checked all the columns with the same tape he used throughout the project and their length was correct, inspector checked the same column and his number was 12 inches shorter.

Turns out the high end tape was missing the 16 foot series of numbers ( just a little blob), Tape was returned and new one checked and it was missing the same number.

After this I always pull the tape out and make sure all numbers are present.

john

[EpitomeofChaos]

Next time your buying in store grab a combo square to check if the tape is calibrated, and if you want it to stay on the money get into the habit of slowing the tape down and catching the tab with your finger so it doesnt crash into the body. The tab is made to slide in and out 20 grand or so and abuse will throw it off.

[983-over]

Not to worry there is more wire at the store. So measure it with a micrometer, cut it with a torch and weld it in place.

I know this is a welding site but, my carpenters say:
Measure it with a micrometer,
Mark it with chalk,
Cut it with a chain saw,
Pound it in place,
Caulk to fit,
Paint to match!

No problem!

[mb_welder]

Stanley or bust! I have a Lufkin and it is great! As all of the tapes at work are required to be calibrated, I have yet to find a metric tape (that is metric all the way without inches on one side)

It drives me nuts when companies provide drawings in inches and then randomly switch to metric! Stanley makes a good imperial tape and I have yet to find a company that makes a decent metric one! :realmad:

Accuracy can be trivial, depending on the part...unless pins are size for size and ISO 9001 is breathing down one's neck! Common sense goes a long way, like any other trade. Fortunately after I fit something, I have the option to allow a quality tech to check over my work!

[shovelon]

Next time your buying in store grab a combo square to check if the tape is calibrated, and if you want it to stay on the money get into the habit of slowing the tape down and catching the tab with your finger so it doesnt crash into the body. The tab is made to slide in and out 20 grand or so and abuse will throw it off.

So true!

You can also take the screws out, open and unwind the spring a turn or so. That way it does not snap back so hard. No harm in having it stop a couple of inches shy, as you can just push the rest in.

My choice is Starret tapes. We calibrate them when new and if off return for replacement. It they go out after a few months we can rebend the hook to adjust.

[cornemuse]

As a gradechecker, I measured mainly dirt, thick & wide. You'd think, How close can you measure dirt? Closer than you think. Anyway, I always used lufkin rulers & tapes, the 6' folding ruler 99% of the time. Everything is done in feet & tenths & hundredths of feet. (except the state of Calif. ie Caltrans. Those wizards decided we all would be better off with metric.) The use of decimal feet has carried over into most of what I do. If something is dimensioned in inches, I go with inches. However, from 'scratch' I generally go with 10ths & 100ths, 1.75' is still 1' 9", etc. The Brits changed to decimal for a good reason, no more hap'pence, or farthings, or 'I want 10 (pounds), and it has to be guineas! Try decimal (engineers tapes) see what you think, , , -corne-

[ironmangq]

Snap-On makes or sells an all metric tape. Not sure of the quality but I know its out there

[RLNCOAL]

Snap-On makes or sells an all metric tape. Not sure of the quality but I know its out there

As well as Lufkin

[cornemuse]

When I said 'mertic' I was refering to the Brits going to a decimal based system. Its a lot faster to add/subtract 100ths of feet than inches. 0.1/100' = 1/8" (actually 1/8" = 1/96th of a foot). Easy to split 100ths, = + - 1/16". etc.

[fredschrom]

I have developed a fancy for he Komelon magnetic tapes recently the one I like is:

http://www.komelonusa.com/products.asp?dvn=1&cat=1&sct=22&product_id=40

I used my original so hard I have worn the lettering off the tape, just bought another ouch. Funny part is I hate made in China usually but this is not a cheapie, well made and I really love the mag tip at times. Best bang for the buck though is a old school Stanley powerlock 25 footer. what are they 10-12 bucks, I own and have used the new more expensive versions ( fat Max etc ) and I still like the the original power lock better. Lufkin makes good tapes also.The measuring device I miss most though is in my old job I have a Starret 18 and 24 inch steel rule, pretty much "the" reference rulers, spendy though. I still use my Starret 6 inch pocket rule, something like 25 years on it and counting probably the best investment I ever made.

[nadogail]

I prefer my Fat Max, I like how it sticks out for measuring lengths. The cheapies (often free at Harbor Freight) are the ones I loan to others.
Lufkin makes a good tape, in my opinion they are as good as any other. The cabinetmakers supply shop I visited had a display of at least a dozen types of tape measures.

[soutthpaw]

I have an aluminum case one with magnetic tip from Lowes. (Kobolt) brand. Lifetime warranty. Its been exchanged once already after it stopped fully rewinding. No reciept, and no questions. Like Craftsman warranty..

[mckutzy]

I almost cried when I lost my last good Lufkin, it fell off my belt hook tape holder on a job site. I think I spent, about $40 on that. I knew it was a good tape thats why I bought it.
On the first day of my latest job, I didnt have all my stuff with me, the boss gives me a "new" tape. He say "here keep this, I got a ton of them". Later I find out he bought 1000 for a buck each. They are pretty bad, I refused to use them at all. Now I have a dewalt brand. It was a bit cheaper but still pretty good.

[shortfuse]

This is somewhat related to tape measures, etc. Today I was in Home Depot and happened to spend some time looking at their selection of squares, rulers, etc. (only the steel ones). I noticed a lot of new stuff with blue packaging (I'm a little color-blind, so it looked blue to me) that didn't look familiar, so checked them out. I think the brand was "Empire" or something like that. They had small squares, rulers, pocket rulers and some other stuff. The stuff looked like a bunch of cr*p. The measurement lines were uneven, not uniformly stamped, some deep some shallow, the numbers were erratic and not uniform. The finish on the metal was poor at best, was still grainy and cheap looking.

My first guess was that they were a new bunch of chicom trash, but reading the back of the package they were from INDIA. Now we have a new bunch of low grade, cheaply made hardware that makes the chicom stuff look pretty GOOD! I can't believe HD has stooped so low to make a $, that they have to market that stuff to us. I think I have seen better tooling on rulers, etc. at Dollar General than the HD "Made in India" trash.