How's this sound for a cylinder?

[4xJedi]

I found an old recycle yard about a mile past the mysterious 'weld class' location and noticed they had cylinders out front. I inquired about purchase/rent for my mig. (My wife says I have enough gas already).
To buy from them new or even new from cyberweld does not make sense because they don't fill there just exchange. So a new tank from cyberweld will never be seen again after my first fill.
So their lease is a seven year term. Here are their prices.

80cu $100.00 7yrs Fill charge-$37.21
381cu $175.00 7yrs Fill charge-$77.89 (big-*** tank)

If I move away they said they pro-rate and refund me the difference. Sounds fair enough. Does'nt sound like I can go wrong.
This place is only ten min. from my house. The next closest is 45 min. and is like $33.00 a yr for an 80cu. Fill price is about the same.

This sounds like a decent deal to me. I dont really need to own my tank and I'll never have to worry about having it hydro'd right? That's their job. How does this sound to you guys?
Although the patriot missle sized tank is a little more, I get a lot more gas for the buck. My shop is large enough, but with a tank that large I might have to buy another Toyoyta truck to use for a mig cart:rolleyes: .
Anyway let me know what you guys think, thanks.
mike

p.s. I'm going to call the college Mon. a.m. and find out how many students are enrolled in this 'class' I'm strugglin' with. And Franz I am Documenting. Good call.

[Scott S]

Sounds OK to me , especially since you don't have many places to choose from.

[4xJedi]

Hey Scott, Did you notice you did'nt get a receipt for you 9000x? I e-mailed them about that and they said they don't send them out. I was worried about warranty. They said no warranty. I'm sure Speedglas would take care of us if anything should happen to our hoods. Just curious.
mike

[Planet X]

Originally posted by 4xJedi
I found an old recycle yard about a mile past the mysterious 'weld class' location and noticed they had cylinders out front. I inquired about purchase/rent for my mig. (My wife says I have enough gas already).
To buy from them new or even new from cyberweld does not make sense because they don't fill there just exchange. So a new tank from cyberweld will never be seen again after my first fill.
So their lease is a seven year term. Here are their prices.

80cu $100.00 7yrs Fill charge-$37.21
381cu $175.00 7yrs Fill charge-$77.89 (big-*** tank)

If I move away they said they pro-rate and refund me the difference. Sounds fair enough. Does'nt sound like I can go wrong.
This place is only ten min. from my house. The next closest is 45 min. and is like $33.00 a yr for an 80cu. Fill price is about the same.

This sounds like a decent deal to me. I dont really need to own my tank and I'll never have to worry about having it hydro'd right? That's their job. How does this sound to you guys?
Although the patriot missle sized tank is a little more, I get a lot more gas for the buck. My shop is large enough, but with a tank that large I might have to buy another Toyoyta truck to use for a mig cart:rolleyes: .
Anyway let me know what you guys think, thanks.
mike

p.s. I'm going to call the college Mon. a.m. and find out how many students are enrolled in this 'class' I'm strugglin' with. And Franz I am Documenting. Good call.


Around where I am at when you buy a tank, it is kind've just like some sort've cash credit thing. For example say my Argon 155cu. cylinder is empty, well I take it in to be 'filled', they come back with another cylinder filled, of the same size-not the exact cylinder I came with though.
If I decide I need a bigger tank- they credit the difference say a 155 sized bottle costs 170 bucks- well I jump up in size they just subtract $170 from purchase price of bigger bottle and I pay the difference.
If the bottle was bought at the same store they will buy it back-not sure if you lose any $ as have not done that yet.
At first this arrangment seemed odd but both Airgas & AirLiquid do the same thing-upside is you don't really deal with bottles going out've spec.
One downside I had a line on a 'full size' 'used' bottle for $50- retails around $240, but since it did not come from this area the Airgas dealer would flat out not fill it.

[4xJedi]

Yeah, That's exactly why I think leasing would be better for me here.
mike

[Franz]

Guys, I think yer lack of knowledge is gettin you in trouble that will be hell to get out of.
Tanks are sort of a comples subject that have to comply with a hell of a lot of regulations.
Those tanks in the scrap yard are probably there for a very good reason.
Lets start withthe fact that a tank has a limited life, and must be tested every 5 years. Over the last few years, a lot of delaers have scrapped a lot of tanks that reached end of life due to some new regulations, and those tanks cannot be filled again by law.
Any cylinder that has been dented, arced, gouged, or in a fire is JUNK, no exceptions. Most dealers will cut the cylinder into pieces before scrapping it, but there well may be some who don't.

Also, there is no way in hell most dealers will fill a cylinder they did not sell or lease to begin with. About the only exception to this is in the case of national chains, or with outfits like Liquid Carbonic, where independant dealers will exchange customer owned cylinders wherever you happen to be.
Very few dealers fill cylinders any more, primarily due toinsurance, and the availability of employees skilled enough to do the job who will actually do the job. It is much cheaper to load 250 cylinders onto a trailer and send them 150 miles to be refilled than it is to support filling at your dock.
Also, filling a HP gas cylinder isn't the same thing as pumping up a tire. It takes about 4 hours to fill a 122cf oxygen to 2200psi, and it takes about a half hour to cascade fill a 20cf Helium cylinder. These aren't cosst effective for a local dealer.
In reality, the cost of gas in a cylinder isn't much different if the cylinder holds 80cf or 330cf, from the dealer's viewpoint. The price difference tothe customer is primarily based on how much business you repreaent to the dealer.
Most of what you are paying for in leasing a cylinder is INSURANCE. You're paying for the dealer's insurance, the truckers insurance, the gas provider's insurance, and probably a few more. That's just the way business is these days, and everybody along the distribution chain has to pass along his costs.
Some of what you pay is for theft. A lot of cylinders disappear every year. When I go to auctions, I very often see leased cylinders being sold by auctioneers who either don't know any better, or don't care. If they are my delaer's cylinders, I'll give him a call, and he will generally send out a truck to pick up his cylinders during the auction. That really pisses off some auctioneers.
All this said, before you put your dollar on the counter, make damn sure you understand the transaction. A cylinder you bought cheap ain't worth a penny if you can't get it filled, or have to pay for hydro before you can get it filled. There are more Harbour Flotsum cylinders sitting empty on shelves around here than I can count cause nobody will fill them.

[4xJedi]

Franz,
Perhaps I did'nt explain it correctly. The tanks are at a scrap/recycle yard but they are not scrap. They're brought there and cycled by Airgas. They are all Hydro-current. It's just a service this company provides for alot of local guys. They even told me they can't fill tanks there, they have to wait for the truck to deliver and pick up. Like I said a good priced cylinder from Cyberweld is worthless to me here because they can't fill it. Exchange only. Also Whats the average gas-span of an 80cf tank? Thought I heard someone say 10lb roll of wire. Close to true or way off? Thanks Franz,
mike

[cutter]

Originally posted by 4xJedi
Franz,
Perhaps I did'nt explain it correctly. The tanks are at a scrap/recycle yard but they are not scrap. They're brought there and cycled by Airgas. They are all Hydro-current. It's just a service this company provides for alot of local guys. They even told me they can't fill tanks there, they have to wait for the truck to deliver and pick up. Like I said a good priced cylinder from Cyberweld is worthless to me here because they can't fill it. Exchange only. Also Whats the average gas-span of an 80cf tank? Thought I heard someone say 10lb roll of wire. Close to true or way off? Thanks Franz,
mike

Hmmmmm. Well, that was interesting. Did you know you can post twice almost simultaneously & replace the text by editing one or the other?:angel:

I left the first answer to question in the post that follows & changed this one. Oh well. At least it wasn't a life threatening mistake.

[cutter]

Originally posted by 4xJedi
Franz,
Perhaps I did'nt explain it correctly. The tanks are at a scrap/recycle yard but they are not scrap. They're brought there and cycled by Airgas. They are all Hydro-current. It's just a service this company provides for alot of local guys. They even told me they can't fill tanks there, they have to wait for the truck to deliver and pick up. Like I said a good priced cylinder from Cyberweld is worthless to me here because they can't fill it. Exchange only. Also Whats the average gas-span of an 80cf tank? Thought I heard someone say 10lb roll of wire. Close to true or way off? Thanks Franz,
mike

They (my gas supplier) told me to expect about 6 hours of actual trigger time. I believe you are correct about that being about the same as 10 lbs of wire, depending upon variables such as flow rate, etc. and that was in reference to C25 sheilding gas.

[Franz]

80 cf blowing at 10 cfh = 8 hours
80 cf blowing at 15 cfh = 5.3 hours
Of course, those figures are dependant on no leaks in the system and your gague being accurate.

[4xJedi]

Thanks guys, Cutter- are you saying you posted the same thing twice at the same time? Or did I mess up? Anyhow thanks for the cyl. info, you and Franz.
mike

[cutter]

Originally posted by 4xJedi
Thanks guys, Cutter- are you saying you posted the same thing twice at the same time? Or did I mess up? Anyhow thanks for the cyl. info, you and Franz.
mike

You're welcome Mike & I screwed up posting the answer & wound up with two posts when I was trying to edit the first one. SO I edited them both because Chuck has this thing set so that you cannot delete a post, only edit it within ten minutes of posting it. After that you just have to live with any damn fool thing you did.

:D

[Jim]

how heavy a 300 cf bottle weight with 85/15 thanks Jim

[4xJedi]

Jim,
I'm not sure how heavy it is but it's about the size of a Patriot missile. Too large for a cart. Franz probably knows the weight.
mike

[Franz]

Best I can do for you guys
http://www.rochweld.com/gases.shtml
They don't give weights, but DAMN HEAVY would be close in my estimation.