View Full Version : What to use for Structural Beams?
01-24-2004, 06:25 PM
What would be the process most likely used to weld these support brackets to the columns? Would you use 7014, 6011, or 6013?
The welders hired to do the job used 6013, also I'm not one to knock someone else's work, but do the welds pictured look like they can be trusted?
01-24-2004, 06:26 PM
01-24-2004, 07:45 PM
I'm not a professional weldor, but I don't think I'd be too
happy with those welds ! :(
01-24-2004, 07:48 PM
Based on what I see in the pictures, it looks like somebody was running way too cold, and troweling on bird****.
6013 might have been fine for the aplication, but that guy just didn't have the heat on.
01-24-2004, 08:12 PM
how about some nice 7018
01-24-2004, 09:07 PM
Actually, I've seen bird**** look better than that. Looks a lot like what I did when first starting, and even then I knew it was crap.
01-24-2004, 09:15 PM
Franz.....6013 for structural ?....I'm thinking more along the lines
of 6011. 7018 would be nice, but if those welds were made with 6013, I'd hate
to see what 7018 would look like
with the same skill level !
01-24-2004, 09:29 PM
6013 is a much malined rod.
If you look at the information on HoFart, welding 1.01 I think, you'll see some very honest repreaentation of the capability of 6013.
Without my official RockyD trifocular welding helmet, those "welds" look like a single pass fillet to me, and for steel up to 1/4 thick, 6013 would be fine.
In my opinion, that bird**** was troweled on by some dipshut who went out and bought a welder and became an instant welding expert. The one thing he has learned is he can pile shut high by keeping the amps lo and sorta holding an arc. It don't even look like he ground the paint off before he started troweling. Maybe this guy laid concrete blocks before he became an Xpurt Wildur. I doubt the penetration is more than 100 thousanths.
This is just further proof of what I've said for years, the weld in in the man, not the damn machine.
01-24-2004, 09:46 PM
If you think thats bad, they had no safety sense at all. Grinding, cutting, welding with no eye protection. One day the guy left his face was red, like bad sun burn. I guess he hasn't learned that closeing your eyes when welding doesn't work.
01-24-2004, 09:57 PM
Gee, I bet they were the lo bidder for the job too!
So, what's the cost estimate to demolish all their "work" and bring in a qualified contractor?
I sure hope the owner of the project understands OSHA can and will nail him for the "contractor's" improper work and safety practices.
ARE YOU SURE WELDING AIN'T A TANNING SALON?
01-24-2004, 09:59 PM
Well Franz, maybe you just gave me something to think about !
From what I've read (and, as you know...I'm "hungry" to learn),
6013 doesn't actually set the world on fire with regards
to penetration. 7018 is, in the opinion of many
weldors,"THEE ROD"....but needs clean steel...(look at those pictures again). The reason I said 6011 is good penetration,
nice clean puddle (so you can watch what you're doing)... and
a relatively fast freeze...(those WERE out-of-position welds) !
01-24-2004, 10:42 PM
I'm with Franz. Both pics look like vertical down welding ??? Doesn't look like a field pipe weld either. For sure bottom one didn't even get slag knocked off. I'd bet there's absolutely no penetration. Agree also with no paint removal beforehand. Hope it's not holding anything over anybody's head.
01-24-2004, 10:53 PM
Marko, I got my first free sample box of 7018 AC in 1964 from a salesman who touted it as a drag rod for people who couldn't hold a decent arc with 6013.
I've burned more 6013 than I care to remember on light structural, and haven't had any failures. Most signs along the side of the road are built and erected with 6013, and they seem to stand very well. 6013 is a damn good all position rod, and like any other rod has a fixed set of parameters it functions in.
01-24-2004, 11:35 PM
Franz...I'm really happy to hear that...because I think 6013 is
an easy rod to use....(maybe TOO easy) ?
I remember years ago, Sears, Roebuck & Co. used to sell
it, and call it "Contact Rod" ! Their idea was (I assume), that
any idiot could just "drag" it across a piece of steel, and it would
magically bond the pieces together permanently !
I've been avoiding 6013 for this reason.....I don't want to get
used to a rod that the books say "ANYONE can use" !
I've been trying to use 6010, 6011 & 7018. My way of thinking:
If I learn to run those rods, 6013 will be a cake-walk !
01-24-2004, 11:45 PM
I think that weldor has a doctorate in Welding, just look at his welds, PHD for sure.
At least that's what my old welding instructor used to call welds like that. :p
01-24-2004, 11:56 PM
Man those look like crap...i remember my learning stick beads being a bit nicer! I like how the slag was just left on there. A good weldor should be able to make a bead, and watch his slag peel up when the hood's lifted :) It's the best feeling in welding, lift your hood and find that your slag has already came off all by itself and you're bead looks prettier than your ex-girlfriend! (hehe, don't tell her i said that!) I would have wanted to use 6010 though, just because that's what I'm confident in using out of position when i know i need good penetration. I like it because i can see exactly how much i'm digging in with the whip and pause, and i just have very little trouble with all position welding with it. I was trying to do outside corner joints with 7018, and they looked like those pictured above, i tryed it with 6010 and did much better. To bad the blueprints call for 7018....Oh well! Gotta learn it sometime, right?
01-26-2004, 11:11 AM
I thought 7014 took the title as the Drag rod.
Also what are these support brackets for. Are they to hold somthing or acting as stiffeners. from my computer they don't seem real clear.
01-26-2004, 07:31 PM
The brackets don't hold up anything important, just the second concrete floor. I don't know if you can see in the picture but there are 8 columns also supporting the beams except the 2 end ones.
01-27-2004, 01:25 AM
incomplete and irregular welds, no "wrapped" corners.....NOPE! wouldnt fly in my world!
i agree with franz on the subject of 6013...a confidence inspiring weld counts more than what rod was used! nicely tied in "toes" and a proper amount of weld metal and a smooth, regular finish speak VOLUMES about the ability of the weldor!
01-27-2004, 10:01 AM
Poor/No prep work + poor heat + poor technique = poor penetration = poor welds. Poor building. :help:
01-28-2004, 09:15 PM
Would you preheat before welding?
01-28-2004, 10:07 PM
cbrxx.....I don't think pre-heat is the answer....
I think you's guy's just need to hire a weldor that knows what he's doing ! I hate to say it, but I think I can do a better job
than that !
01-29-2004, 09:44 AM
Pre-Heat is generally used only when you are welding thick steel.
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