How about removing the paid for fourms from the New Posts button

[59halfstep]

When I come to the forum I punch the New Posts button to see what is new on the the site. This will list all new transmissions since I was here last. Now the problem is it lists all the traffic including the staged messages from the Paid Forum.
Since they do not want outsiders looking into their world, why not just keep their traffic separate from the rest of the list. Below is a copy of a response yesterday from one of the sites in question.

Yesterday, 10:57 PM
EVERLAST_SUPPORT EVERLAST_SUPPORT is offline
WeldingWeb Journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 126
Re: Bought a Cut50D - Here's what I think.
Why do I respond to this stuff? Maybe no tech support calls tonight and free time on my hands.

lugweld:

So you know for a fact something was removed, right? Or just following a guy with 3000+ post on the welding forum and kissing some welding parts. Please hang out in the forum you bought your welder from and stop coming here as you could slow us down helping our customers that have an issue. Mind you this thread is slow and old, but you still come spread your smart remarks in a forum, that I would bet, you do not own a product from. So your input is mute. Hope I did not make that to hard for you to read.

If you do not own our product HOW can you comment on it and WHY are you here? Do you own our product? Or saving the world here? Maybe focus on politics. We need more help there.

Sandy:

What was deleted? Tell me the post and what was deleted in this thread please. I would like to know myself as I check here everyday and many times.

You can check your emails. Notifications from weldingweb are sent to you in an email "there is a new post" that you have joined and it includes the first part of the post. Cut and paste that info please.

If you deleted them, they are in the deleted folder on your computer. Click the deleted folder and please post them as I am sure you can cut and paste in Windows or any other OS. I want to see the posts you says are deleted and I can help you pull them if you need help?

Weldingweb sends you a message on a thread if you have been a part of this thread. Please do that for me. It has to be in your inbox or deleted folder.

Otherwise, please leave our customers alone and move on.
__________________
Mike
www.everlastwelders.com
support@everlastwelders.com

Since these groups operate with different rules, Deleting posts, editing posts, and locking posts that they are not in agreement with or proud of, why not just move them off into a corner where their traffic won't come up to someone unless they go directly looking for these topics. Take them off the New Post Button. They do not want outsiders there and it is best for the site not to direct the outsiders there either. Seems like this will help their problem of not wanting the people shining the light of day into their machines or their operation.

[duaneb55]

I second the motion.

[specter]

I will certainly give a third (3) vote on that. especially after reading a post like that one, which is one of many.

[David R]

I brought this to Bob's attention.

David :)

[specter]

THANKS DAVID

[tessdad]

I say conduct a poll, majority wins, I add my vote to those already cast.

[tnjind]

I agree,
But who pays the bills, you? or I?

The fact of bussiness, the ones that pay money buys something. Right?

Who pays to keep this forum up?

I DO NOT AGREE with the BS that is going on here. The underhanded, deleted, misleading, manipulation that is happening is not what we want.

But it is what it is.

[duaneb55]

I agree,
But who pays the bills, you? or I?

The fact of bussiness, the ones that pay money buys something. Right?

Who pays to keep this forum up?

I DO NOT AGREE with the BS that is going on here. The underhanded, deleted, misleading, manipulation that is happening is not what we want.

But it is what it is.

You make a valid point regarding "...who pays the bills...". Perhaps a solution would be to limit their 'veto' power as it does a disservice to a new reader attempting to get a true take on a manufacturer/supplier when all the negative is allowed to be swept under the carpet or tossed out back behind the wood shed at their will. To me, that reflects on the site as a whole in spite of the otherwise great qualities it possesses that I come here for.

Personally, I only read some of the post 'over there' once in a while for a little comic relief and to confirm they haven't changed their ways - of which you've described most.

[Oldiron2]

agree,
But who pays the bills, you? or I?
The fact of bussiness, the ones that pay money buys something. Right?
Who pays to keep this forum up?
I DO NOT AGREE with the BS that is going on here. The underhanded, deleted, misleading, manipulation that is happening is not what we want.
But it is what it is.
The question was not about removing the paid forum; it was about changing the search function so that forum does not appear when searching for 'new posts'. They want their forum separate and not posted in by non-buyers so non-buyers should not have to be constantly exposed to their new posts. Seems fair to me. Also seems fair that their posts be deleted from the non-paid forums for the same reason that they delete posts from theirs, namely that the poster didn't use/buy anything from that 'brand'. Need the same rules for both sections to keep them separate.

[59halfstep]

The question was not about removing the paid forum; it was about changing the search function so that forum does not appear when searching for 'new posts'. They want their forum separate and not posted in by non-buyers so non-buyers should not have to be constantly exposed to their new posts. Seems fair to me. Also seems fair that their posts be deleted from the non-paid forums for the same reason that they delete posts from theirs, namely that the poster didn't use/buy anything from that 'brand'. Need the same rules for both sections to keep them separate.


Bingo Oldiron2 - If they do not want non-buyers to look or comment on their products or their unique business practices, they should want to be isolated from the non-manipulated group.
Maybe the ignore button in the cp can be set to also include a Forum. I for one would more than happy to ignore them and their unique business practices. But when I hit the NEW POST button I get to see what they do not want me to see. Granted I can choose not to open their posts......... but it is like passing a wreck.....something sick inside makes me want to look, and see what kind of crap they are up to now. If they don't turn up in the search then I quite honestly do not think of them at all, or want to think of them for that matter.

[mla2ofus]

After reading some of the threads/posts in the paid fors, I just go on past them. It still comes down to free choice, nobody is forcing you to go there. If Bob's happy w/ them paying part of the bills that means he won't expect us to at this point in time.
JMHO,
Mike

[duaneb55]

The question was not about removing the paid forum; it was about changing the search function so that forum does not appear when searching for 'new posts'. They want their forum separate and not posted in by non-buyers so non-buyers should not have to be constantly exposed to their new posts. Seems fair to me. Also seems fair that their posts be deleted from the non-paid forums for the same reason that they delete posts from theirs, namely that the poster didn't use/buy anything from that 'brand'. Need the same rules for both sections to keep them separate.

Bingo Oldiron2 - If they do not want non-buyers to look or comment on their products or their unique business practices, they should want to be isolated from the non-manipulated group.
Maybe the ignore button in the cp can be set to also include a Forum. I for one would more than happy to ignore them and their unique business practices. But when I hit the NEW POST button I get to see what they do not want me to see. Granted I can choose not to open their posts......... but it is like passing a wreck.....something sick inside makes me want to look, and see what kind of crap they are up to now. If they don't turn up in the search then I quite honestly do not think of them at all, or want to think of them for that matter.

Although tnjind made a good point, you two make a better one. I'd be happy with the Ignore button idea and yes, one could simply elect to ignore them on their own as many of us do now. Just the same, I too would prefer not to automatically see them everytime I hit the New Posts button.

[Oldiron2]

After reading some of the threads/posts in the paid fors, I just go on past them. It still comes down to free choice, nobody is forcing you to go there. If Bob's happy w/ them paying part of the bills that means he won't expect us to at this point in time.
When I scan 'New Posts', I look for interesting topics and don't always/often look to see which forum they are in. If the paid forums need to be in the 'New Posts', then maybe they could at least be colored Red or Purple there to set them off from the unpaid forums.

I expect Bob will do what he thinks best. This thread was just to give him information about the thoughts of members so he could consider them when making his decision.

[lugweld]

The issue is that the existence of these companies that heavily censor(they just did it again:rolleyes:), is that it gives the whole website a blackeye. The way they censor the posts is to remove any "critical" observations by others and the customers to make their product look differently than it is...That folks is dishonesty. I read the articles and watch the vids and visit the sponsors that advertise here. I appreciate being put into contact with new info and other suppliers that I wouldn't normally be in contact with. But to have companies running their own forums in such unethical manner is allowing these companies to "prey" upon customers that are unsuspecting and new to the realm of welding.

I myself found this site by doing a search for information on a particular welder. Others looking for welding machines stumble here or are just doing research on welding. Or they may be completely new to the buisness and are trying to get established. I am not going to critique these companies product, because, all companies have their dogs(products) that they are not particularly proud of from time to time. But these advertisers are by way of censorship are completely misrepresenting their product and mainly, their support and their business ethics.

I don't think removing them from new posts or sequestering them to a part of the website that is less accesable is the answer. I think they either need to be handcuffed on their editing abilities or the companies need to open their own.

But I understand the need for revenue. Aren't there any reputable companies willing to step up to the plate? Maybe ESAB or HTP? Thermadyne?

[59halfstep]

Lugweld - I don't know if you were here before when they landed but we stated your feelings with WW and were told that they pay for their space within this space and have their own edit powers and that was that.

Giant Guy is a stand up seller and in no way should he be lumped in with the "Editors" of which we have been speaking.

Charlie

[chicksdigwagons]

With all the talented guys (and gals) on this forum, it does pain me to say that I feel less and less compelled to return here after my posts and others have been censored. I'm happy to see many of you backing me up and voicing your opinions.

I don't think that any form of restriction should be placed on the vendors, for the aforementioned reasons - they paid for the space to use as they wish. HOWEVER, I do believe that it's important for us all to remind them that their actions do not go unnoticed and it's infinitely better to allow honest criticism in the public eye.

[Oldiron2]

But I understand the need for revenue. Aren't there any reputable companies willing to step up to the plate? Maybe ESAB or HTP? Thermadyne?
I understand that Congress just passed the "Stimulus Package" of Eight Hundred-some Billion dollars, with a huge amount going to ACORN; why the Hel* didn't we get a few billion here, under the guise of '"Education"' ?? Too many educated, mostly hard-working Professionals???
I'm happy to see many of you backing me up and voicing your opinions.
I'm just trying to do/backing up what is right, which includes you, in this matter.

[duaneb55]

HOWEVER, I do believe that it's important for us all to remind them that their actions do not go unnoticed and it's infinitely better to allow honest criticism in the public eye.
That's akin to to reminding a lifetime burglar it's not nice to rob peoples homes. We're talking about individuals that represent a society that infringes on patents on a regular basis, has practiced censorship for generations and believe not to is wrong.

I understand that Congress just passed the "Stimulus Package" of Eight Hundred-some Billion dollars,...
Not to hijack but to be specific, the Democrats just passed it. Republicans voted 100% No.

[crawler]

Not to hijack but to be specific, the Democrats just passed it. Republicans voted 100% No.

I'm not surprised at all. The liberals will never pass up an opportunity to spend money and give out the people who don't want to work.

[Ultrachop]

I am new to the forum in the last couple months (Like Lugweld) I found it looking for info on a Certain welder) in comparison to others. I agree that the censorship of replies for the sake of making a certain "vendor's" product look better is deceptive (at best). If these are the folks that "pay the bills". the product (this sight is not worth being here) I for one have ponyed up an annual membership on other sites (for just that reason) and thus the owner of the site made an area 'for members only', NOT THE BEST, but there always seems to be a few bad apples in the barrel (unless we are talking about Congress) then the whole darn farm is polluted!!! WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO SPEND OUR WAY TO PROSPERITY!

[Scott Young]

my two cents are let them have their forums, but remove their ability to delete, censor, edit, etc. they can give rebuttals, explanations, and try to convince the world they aren't charlatans. now that i would love to see.

[chicksdigwagons]

That's akin to to reminding a lifetime burglar it's not nice to rob peoples homes. We're talking about individuals that represent a society that infringes on patents on a regular basis, has practiced censorship for generations and believe not to is wrong.


Right, that's great an all and I don't disagree on your assessment of the Chinese government (don't blame the people in general) But the Chinese aren't the ones running these US companies. The US Companies are just middle men trying to make a buck. Unfortunately, that's the trend with most businesses in the US. We're a country of middle men, a net importer of goods.

In any case, I don't mind supporting the local importers a little if the service and follow-through is good. But in the case of at least one of them that isn't the case. In the future I'll speak with my money, but for now I'm content just letting other people know what they are up to in their forums.

[David R]

Bob tells me he removed those forums from New posts like you asked. There is more, but my lips are sealed!

David :)

[59halfstep]

Good and thanks. Let these guys operate in the shadows where they prefer to do business.

Let them conduct their "excellent customer service" under the rock from where they came.

I don't care where the machine they sell is from. ( I would prefer to see American Products)

What I do not want to see is an inferior made product sold, then any negitive feedback edited in order

to make these (HEATHKIT) machines appear to be something they are not. It cheapens the

site to let it go on. At least by removing them from the mainstream we are not reminded of their

VERY QUESTIONABLE and EMBARRASSING BUSINESS PRACTICES every time

we visit and press the New Posts Button.

They do not want the light of day to shine on their operations and they pay for the privilege

to operate and stay amongst the dark, dank, slime of which they call a business.

[59halfstep]

I brought this to Bob's attention.

David :)

Bob tells me he removed those forums from New posts like you asked. There is more, but my lips are sealed!

David :)


When is this going to happen? I am still seeing all their shameless traffic. They do not want people outside of their confused and manipulated group on there so why can't this be enacted?

[David R]

I have no answer for you. I was told it was done. I agree, they say if you do not have our product, you do not belong here. SO.....

Does that mean if you are shopping for one you don't belong there either?

I built heathkit stuff. If it worked I was amazed. If it didn't It was MY fault. Good stuff, don't compare the two.

David I'm tired of the crap R!

[tnjind]

I get the feeling that this is bigger than what this is.
Something is going on here.
We may soon know.

[59halfstep]

Thank you David - This seems like it would be a workable option if it is indeed possible to do.

I feel that from some of the responses from the "Sub List Owners" to posters, are that

people are subscribing to their threads. When in reality every time a person hits the 'NEW

POSTS BUTTON" their traffic is there for all to read. They have proven time and time again

that the light of day is not welcome to shine on their posts and business practices. I believe

that the Out of Site Out of Mind would help Them in their process of convincing their

customers that their product and their service is beyond reproach. Instead of having their

traffic brought up every time that damn button it pressed.

I would like to commend the Moderators on what must be a very embarrassing and

counter productive situation that they have been placed in. They are here to keep the list

running smooth and to help teach when they can. To be watching all the false information,

editing, deleting, rewriting of history, and to have to stand by and watch is unfair and

just plain wrong.

I miss the days when this list was a very good learning tool. I now have to bounce

between four or five lists to get what I used to get here on only one list. What a waste.

[Rojodiablo]

Fat lady's in the corner, warming up......clearing her throat as we speak....

[kepe]

I can name that tune in 3 words! :laugh:

[59halfstep]

Fat lady's in the corner, warming up......clearing her throat as we speak....

24 hours later.............you would think she would be warm by now. Maybe something stuck in her throat.

[kepe]

Maybe Bob can give us a clue about it?

[59halfstep]

I don't think Bob comes here any more.:(

[David R]

Bob is no longer my boss. I don't know who is right now.

Don't forget, we don't get paid for this, so go easy on us mods.

David Kinda confused R

[zapster]

Bob is no longer my boss. I don't know who is right now.

Don't forget, we don't get paid for this, so go easy on us mods.

David Kinda confused R

Get ready to RUN to the exit door...:laugh:

...zap!

[Oldiron2]

Get ready to RUN to the exit door...

...zap! He's not here often, but when he is, he gives

Good Advice!

[zapster]

Well I guess that's it..

The end of an era..
Or is it error?

...zap!

[David R]

I am not going any where till I see who the new boss is and what the rules are.

David :)

[Rojodiablo]

Well I guess that's it..

The end of an era..
Or is it error?

...zap!

HOLY COW!! I now have a sig line for the other place!! Thanks ZAP!!!!:drinkup:

[zapster]

HOLY COW!! I now have a sig line for the other place!! Thanks ZAP!!!!:drinkup:


Anytime..:waving:

Just remember..
The penalty box door is always open..:drinkup:

...zap!

[59halfstep]

Fat lady's in the corner, warming up......clearing her throat as we speak....


Could someone please check her pulse? I think she may need some cpr or maybe she blew her mosfets!!

[59halfstep]

BUMP, BUMP, BUMP

Why do we have to watch this customer abuse? Why is it that every time one hits the NEW POSTS BUTTON are we forced to have our attention called to what is going on behind the iron welding curtain to these poor souls. These manipulators of their list don't want light of day to shine on their operation, so why don't they wise up and honor this request to pull them out of the light.

This way they can post their make believe posts in their own environment with out as many watching. Seems to be a reasonable request.

You are not being monitored, list members are being directed to your business operation and once there there is that sick morbid temptation of having a look.

Think about it.

[David R]

Where is that fat lady?

David :)

[specter]

I think that Fat Lady is out back in the milking stall.
Mmmmmmoooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[garythenuke]

I'm new here to the forum and new to the welding scene. Over time I'll likely be building up a pretty decent shop. Are any of the manufacturers in the paid forum "honorable"? Or do they all practice these same shenanigans?

Thanks

[7A749]

I'm new here to the forum and new to the welding scene. Over time I'll likely be building up a pretty decent shop. Are any of the manufacturers in the paid forum "honorable"? Or do they all practice these same shenanigans?

Thanks

Please read this entire thread & any others citing the importers who have their own sections on this site. You'll get an information overload, I believe.

Remember, you get what you pay for & value does NOT constitute saving money alone.

[garythenuke]

I did read the entire thing. My head is still spinning. I probably confused myself, I was almost ready to start taking notes. Thanks for the advice.

[59halfstep]

Anything negative about their machines are deleted from their site. They have new customers come over and post a review of their new machine and send them some "Gifts" for the task. But if you really look at the review posts they appear to be written by the same person or written off of the same outline. How often would you see a new customer sending pictures of the cardboard box the machine came in.

The two owners also got into an online exchange and the fact came out that one wanted to fix prices online. They are a piece of work. Beware of smiling salesmen.