Pulling heavy tools up ramp into pick-up

[SolidWelder]

I need help in figuring out how to pull up a 330 lb hydraulic power unit on wheels (kind of like a generator) into a Silverado 2500 pickup. The truckbed is fully enclosed with a tall cap. Right now, I use 8 ft long ramps, but it takes two people to carefully pull it up by hand. I want to weld a bracket onto the front wall of the cargo bed for a winch so I can load it and unload it myself.

I am concerned cause there doesn't seem to be a strong place to weld a bracket to. Its all pretty thin steel. Any ideas about beefing up this front cargo area to allow me to yank on it on it with a winch? There's no easy way to get behind it, cause you're just inches from the back of the truck cab. Thanks for any help.

[BNF]

I know nothing about newer trucks, but does your bed have the stake pockets in the corners? Ifso can you make a brace to tie into those upfront and maybe rig off them?

[AndyA]

What about the bolts that hold the bed onto the frame? Get some longer bolts. Make a bracket that attaches here.

[SolidWelder]

I'm not sure that I know what a stake pocket is, but if the triangular steel flip-up tabs that allow you to tie-down with straps or bungies, they are off on the left and right sides, not on the front.

[SolidWelder]

What about the bolts that hold the bed onto the frame? Get some longer bolts. Make a bracket that attaches here.

Are the bolts right up at the front- or a couple of ft back? These are bolts that come up vertically from below, right?

[Sandy]

There's darn little on a modern pickup bed you can call metal, let alone pull from. The bulk head sure isn't tough enough to pull sqaut from. Yours should have camper tie downs in the bed up towards the very front. They may have plastic plugs covering them right now. Problem is with pulling from those they are down low and you'd be pulling the load into the ramp to some degree which increases the pulling force needed by quite a bit.

It is possible to re-inforce the bulk head to some degree but it takes some effort and some steel. As you say, there isn't a lot of room to work. Then there is the issue of cosmetics. To me a pickup is a tool to haul a load and get the job done. To others their pickup is more precious than a soul mate.

[weldbead]

1)bigger wheels turn easier
2)go through the rearwindow of the cab and hook onto a 4 x 4 run through the open side windows..if you are slowly pulling on a cumalong handle with someone pushing the load you really wont exert much force..u can pad it where it rests against the window hole..

[metalmeltr]

Make two heavy crossmembers out of steel chanel and bolt or weld them to the frame and make sure when doing this ther is enough room to put a piece of3/8" plate on top of the cross members and have it tight up to the bed and weld the plate to the crossmembers then drill holes though the bed into the plate and bolt your winch on to the plate though the bed.

[DSW]

I've got a couple of thoughts for you. I've spent years loading/unloading misc pieces of const. gear (walkbehind saws, plate compactors, hyd units for ring saws, jumping jacks etc) in tucks usually with high beds by myself.

My first thought is to bolt to the floor up at the front by the cab I would try and use the holes for the bed bolts IF you can get them loose to remove them. I would then build a brace for the bottom with 2 ears that will mount a pivioting arm and winch the arms com up to a /\ with a pully at the top to lift the line higher. I would sewt it up so it could fold against the front wall then fold down for use, with support legs.

The stake pockets are the holes in the top of the sides that are often used to insert vert members to raise the sides or to insert tie down rings. They may not show up well if they are side tops are capped with plastic and they most likely are covered by the cap, mine are on my PU. you can build a horizantal brace that ould mount at these points. You would have to remove the cap to get to the pockets and then build an insert to go in the pocket that would say accept a bolt. Remount the cap after drilling matching holes in the cab base. The brace now can be installed and bolted to the inserts.

You can build a frame that covers the top of the bed walls on all sides. We used angle iron legs down on the sides so the top sits on the top and the leg runs down the inside, the front angle leg goes to the outside then you mount the the thin top leg in the end it will sort of be like a C dropped over the front in the middle. The reason to go down the sides is 2 fold. One it keeps the cap even all the way arround helping to keep the inside dry, and they keep the unit located and will take up some load if you bolt them down. You can then mount d rings for tiedowns etc to the legs also. We used a design somwhat similar to this to mount a heavy ladder rack to my buddies old truck. The angle supported the rack on cantileavered top sections, then the bed sat on the base and the rack bolted on afterwards. Hope this makes sence, it's simpler in reality than my explpanation is making it sound.

Longer ramps. This is the primary way I loaded heavy construction equipment over the years. I have a 14' alum truck ramp I use now. I load it on the ladder rack of the small truck, it sticks out over the tailgate of the 11' bed. I may shorten it and store it under the bed on the 11' truck in the future. You could build a set of folding ramps that you bolt together or such. 2 8' lengths with a brace/ foot at the joint would give you a 16' stupid long ramp that should be easy to roll up by youself. Dissasembled it would only be 8' long and 2x as high as what you use now. You see folding designs for 8' ramps at Northern tools and such, just design them as long as you want.

Do you have a ladder rack on the cap? I don't know if you have a plumbers body with boxes and a cap or just a tall "recreational" cap like I do on my PU. If the rack is solid like on a plumbers body set a mount up high on it and hook up to the BACK end of the unit. it will get it 90% of the way up the block the wheels from behind and let out some slack and el manuel push it in the rest of the way.


Don't forget you can use mother nature to your advantage. Park facing downhill and your ramps will be flatter. To load my 48" walkbehind mower in my small PU, I park at 90deg to the street at my side yard. Yes I block both lanes of traffic when I do this! Then the ramps actually go down into the bed as the side yard has a good sized slope down to the street and the 8" curb works to "lower" the bed. I have to hold the mower back as it rolls down the ramps into the truck.

Good luck hope some of this helps.

[SolidWelder]

Thanks guys BNF, AndyA,Sandy, weldbead, metalmeltr, and DSW for your great responses and questions. I'm already onto a few good ideas from them. I thought it would be best if I showed you a picture of what I was talking about, so I ran out there, and get some photos of the whole gory situation. I have attached four photos to this post- I hope that they come through.

The photo one from far back, shows that its a contractor cap that fits over the top of the bed rails. It does have some aluminum reinforcement of the roof that I could hook a top pulley to, to change pull angle, but I'm already so heavily loaded on the side toolboxes that I scared to death that I might rip the hole thing down.

You can see that its a little more complicacted than I described [I forgot how bad it was, as I posted this in bed last night]. There is also a 4'x8' bedslide that covers access to the bottom of the bed and the frame below.

The contractor's cap is clamped to the top bed rail along the front and sides, making connection to it difficult. I think it would be best to weld or bolt a small channel (per metalmeltr) against the side face of the top bed rail, sneaking it in through the "belly" of the cap clamps, and a similar one in the front rail, giving me a way to distribute the pulling force along the truck body without damaging the whole cap setup.

Assuming I could install the above steel channels or tubes, and bolt a winch to it, any suggestions on a 12v dc winch that would work well I this situation. I've never owned one before. Small, strong, slow, is good here.

BTW, DSW, great suggestions re ramps and parking inclination. I've been there many times- but often fighting the hill, rather than letting it help. I often back into a site where the ground is dropping off, so I'm fighting gravity getting the stuff back on the truck. [ For that reason, I try to work leaving the power unit on the truck if the hoses can reach].

Finally, your ramp idea is worth re-thinking. Now that I can weld a little, I should rethink steel ramps. Is alum the only reasonable material here? [I haven't welded alum yet]. Would 2- 16ft long folded ramps fit in the side space that I show in side photo- there is a wheel well there too.

BTW, the last photo is the narrow space between the cab and the enclosed cargo space enclosed by the cap.

Well that's enough for one post. Thanks again so much for all you input.

[William McCormick Jr]

I need help in figuring out how to pull up a 330 lb hydraulic power unit on wheels (kind of like a generator) into a Silverado 2500 pickup. The truckbed is fully enclosed with a tall cap. Right now, I use 8 ft long ramps, but it takes two people to carefully pull it up by hand. I want to weld a bracket onto the front wall of the cargo bed for a winch so I can load it and unload it myself.

I am concerned cause there doesn't seem to be a strong place to weld a bracket to. Its all pretty thin steel. Any ideas about beefing up this front cargo area to allow me to yank on it on it with a winch? There's no easy way to get behind it, cause you're just inches from the back of the truck cab. Thanks for any help.


http://www.handtrucks.com/pallet-jacks/pallet-lifts/wescohighliftpalletjack.cfm


These are sweet. I have used one, they are cool. A bit pricey. But we got ours at an auction. Most people do not even know what they are.



Sincerely,


William McCormick

[tomsexpress]

I've been using this setup for almost 10 years now and find it's worked very well. I pulled my Ranger 8 welder into a small box truck the other day, that I have this setup mounted in. I believe the welder weighs around 500 pounds. I used a router to countersink the steel plate and the 3 nuts I welded to the bottom of the plate. I bolted the plate to the floor, granted I have a two inch thick oak floor to bolt to as opposed to your truck bed. When I need to use the winch I simply screw the three pins to the plate, mount the winch, run my power from the side box and away I go. As you can see in the photos, I made a short cable that runs from a quick connect mounted in one of my side boxes (this is hard wired from the battery) to the winch. I'm not sure how you will need to support such a plate under your pickup bed, I just thought I would throw this idea out there. Hope this helps. Grainger Model 5W660A.

[William McCormick Jr]

Here is another device that can come in handy too.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3KR46


http://images.grainger.com/B277_15/images/products/3KR46.JPG

It weighs in at about 100 pounds.


We will take one of these to the job site with us an leave it there. We always have more at the shop. And we have the forklifts as well.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[Sparky#1]

1)bigger wheels turn easier
2)go through the rearwindow of the cab and hook onto a 4 x 4 run through the open side windows..if you are slowly pulling on a cumalong handle with someone pushing the load you really wont exert much force..u can pad it where it rests against the window hole..You're joking right ???:gunsfirin

[William McCormick Jr]

Sometimes we use an engine hoist to get the welder in and out of the van.

http://www.Rockwelder.com/Welding/Stainlessweld/sspipefin.jpg

For machinery movers and boat movers we have built over the years "A" frames on wheels. Some that do disassemble, and some that do not.

If you know what your maximum load is you can create an ideally sized "A" frame on wheels, and it could weigh well under 75 pounds. Out of aluminum. And stow in your truck nicely.

Even an inexpensive comalong could be used to lift something into the truck with the "A" frame.



Sincerely,


William McCormick

[SolidWelder]

Tom, nice setup with that flush-mounted winch mounting plate. Gives me some good ideas. When it gets a little less icy in my driveway, I'm getting under to see just where the actual support frame looks like beneath the bed is so I can possibly bolt into it and do kind of what you did.

William, those trucks are very very sweet, but I'd need to load its 260 lbs of weight myself into the p/u truck to have it with me- and besides my limited strength, there's precious little room left in the truck itself. But thanks for letting me know 'bout that hydraulic lift hand truck. I get a lot of heavy deliveries to my residential address, and these truck guys can't/won't always help me get the stuff off. [actually, usually they will help- but you know, you always remember the one or two times they wouldn't]. Eh, the 100 lb version is getting closer to the mark, maybe I could hoist it to the roof rack. ;)

Thanks guys. I love this website!

[SolidWelder]

Sorry, Bill, I didn' t see your last post when I was writing mine. When you say using an A-frame, do you mean hoisting the machine straight up to the right height, then pushing it onto the bed.?

[DSW]

Steel will be easier to weld than alum especially if you have never done it before.

I got my 14' ramp from a salvage tool supply for $110, its 2 ' wide, Like the kind you see under the bed of a box tuck or Uhaul. They had 16' and 18' running to $140 IIRC this past spring. I couldn't build much for that price.

I would look at using angle iron to build the sides of the ramp say like this |_ _|, then fill in the center with 1/2 - 3/4" plywood. the ramps most likely wont be more than 8-10" wide so that should work fine. I would bolt the ply to the angle iron with caridge bolts to keep the heads flush. The taller the angle the stiffer the ramps I'm thinking 3" or 4" on the tall sides. Depending on the weight loaded on the ramps you may need bracing underneath say like V V V to keep the sides from bending in. thickness of the plywood will sort of determine that. if need be flip the design over and weld the bracing inside the L and have a flush plywood top. The bracing will cut down the ability th "nest the ramps for storage so I'd hold off until I knew I needed it. As far as angle size I can't make any solid recomendations as I don't have any 8' lengths of eith angle or sq/rect tube here to test. I would say if 1 length would support your weight over 8' without bending to badly that should work ok as you will have 2 lengths per side and 2 ramps. that would be 200+ lbs per angle x 4 so 800lbs supported. Maybe someone else can make a recomendation. I'm betting 2" x 3" would be plenty but I would go to my steel yard to seee what sizes they have and how stiff they feel.

As far as joining them I'd have to take a close look at how the folding type ramps unfold and lock to suggest something like that, however some angle iron side braces that go under and bolt to the sides with hand knobs should work espcially if you can set up a "leg" that goes under the joint. On a flat road the height at that point shouldn't differ much so it could be as simple as 2 milk crates at that point to relieve the stresses. As for storage if the ramps seperate rather than fold you can nest 2 of them face to face and save space.That would give you say 6-8" of width vert. Hard to tell ho much space is there now. Can you use both sides for storage? They might fit better flat over the wheel well rather than vert. Again tough to see how much space is available. Then there always roof rack storage.

[DSW]

I just had another thought.

Make the ramps slide in and out of one another. Use pins to lock them at what ever length you wanted. Just drill a regular series of holes in the sides of both pieces. This would help to deal with the joint issue ( but make the ramps a bit shorter), and raise a few others. You would need to taper the plywood edge of the outer ramp (or use alum or steel for the skin). The design would be more complicated to workout and require more welding and be heavier most likely... I'll think on this a bit more I'm thinking 2 c channel like pieces [ ______ ] skinned top and maybe bottom for the outer ramp, sq or rect tube skinned top and possibly bottom for the inner ramp. The inner ramp will be the determining factor on stiffness as if its too thin it will bend too easily. Hmm.....


Don't forget to think up a way to attach them to the truck. Mine used to have a hook that locked in to the tailgate joint if I lowered the tailgate below the bed. The old bent plate like one your existing ramps may or may not work. I'd also think about maybe setting it up so that the ramps were joined to keep them a set dist apart. I hate it when the ramps would slide on the plastic bed liner while 1/2 way up.

[DSW]

Rereading the other guys posts reminded me of one more option that may help.

Take a look at this thread.

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=21733&highlight=wheelchair+lift

A lift like that might do if you don't have to go too far.

On a similar idea our township has a lift plate that mounts to the plow frame on the front of their one truck. Its a simple metal deck with 2 ears that go into the plow pin mounts as pivots. The plow hoist lifts the front of the deck to raise it off the ground to clear 8-10" min. They use it to move the plate compactor around when they do road patches with out having to load it in the bed. Just a thought.

[SolidWelder]

DSW- great ideas! While you were posting #19 and #20, I was in my workshop testing/drawing the same ideas as yours, ie., the angles facing each other. I love the nested ramps idea.

I realize that I could easily fit two sets of nested ones in my little "pipe garage" [the bottom area of the red thing on the left side], or for that matter, hang them off the ceiling struts of the cap. If they are alum, they won't weigh more than 40 lbs each incl. their plywood base. [I'm just guestimating here, based on an alum angle like, at most L5x3x3/8 or at least, L4x3.5x1/4].

I'm picturing two or four predrilled holes in the vertical legs, spaced about 18" apart about 6in from the ends, that accept through pins that locks them together at the midpoint of the 16'+/- run. Those are details that I think that I can work out. Keep the ideas coming, though- I think that we [really, you] are onto something.

Truth is, I've never worked with alum before, but the the strength to weight ratio is very enticing.

Hey, what about two short, 16' type 1 alum extension ladders with plywood laid on! Stick em' on the roof, and call it a day. Kind of a bumpy, saggy ramp ride, but not out of the question!

[steve45]

Google "Material Lift" and see what you get. Here's something you might look at: http://www.genieindustries.com/ml-series/ml-1-2.asp

[DSW]

If you choose to hang them, think about making the hanger near the rear of the truck a roller. HF and some others have cheap rollers use to make stock rollers for chops saws. That way you can rest the weight on the roller and slide them in and out easier than on a flat hanger. I am planning on something like this for my ladder rack. The roller will be slightly lower than the rest on mine so it rolls then lays down, with your limited height you may not have too much of an option on this unless you make several of the hangers rollers, Just a thought.

Also if you go the hole & pin route I'd drill holes evey 6" or 12" thru at least 1/2 the length. That way if you have a location that a long ramp is inconvienient you can just slide it in to the easiest set of holes and pin 'er up.

The commercial ramps usually have loop handles on the down side so you can grab them easily. If you use large angle like you thought about it would be easy to cut the hand holds in the end giving you something easy to grab. tool box handles would also work bolted to the sides.

I like to think that I am creative on these sorts of things (read lazy). I've done a pretty good job so far designing ladder racks and tie downs because I usually end up being the one who has to use them day in, day out and usually by myself. Why reach over something, when I can put the tie down where its easy to reach?

Good luck, I can't wait to see picts of what you come up with.

[metalmeltr]

put a cross member between the ramps, roll the power unit up on the end of the ramp, strap it in place on the ramps and use a high lift jack to bring the ramps leve l with the truck bed, undo the straps and roll it straght in

[metalmeltr]

what kind of work are you doing that you need hudralic power?

[SolidWelder]

Hey metalmeltr- thanks for ideas- The equipment is used to do soil sampling, pipe pile driving and earth tiebacks installations, mainly for distressed foundations and retaining walls. Fun stuff!

[metalmeltr]

This sounds like some prety interesing work does your job involve welding or are you just a hobby weldor?

[metalmeltr]

1)bigger wheels turn easier
2)go through the rearwindow of the cab and hook onto a 4 x 4 run through the open side windows..if you are slowly pulling on a cumalong handle with someone pushing the load you really wont exert much force..u can pad it where it rests against the window hole..

This is a very bad idea and a truck could e very easily damaged this way:nono:

[farmersamm]

Simple Sweet Cheap Safe Strong:):)

Make 2 of the plates with slots. Thru bolt and sandwich the bed between top and bottom plate. This will be low profile and not interfere with using the bed.

Make the pulling eye high enough that it'll accept a come-along without hitting the floor. Plop it in the slot, the force of the come along will pull the thru hook rearward and hold it. The plate on the bottom of the eye assembly will prevent the eye from tilting on its side.

Take the thing out of the slot when done, and forget about it until the next time you need it.

Hook 2 come alongs together if you need longer line pull.

[SolidWelder]

Farmersamm- I really like your idea. The sketch helps alot. Just when I was thinking to myself that bolting something permanent to the bed is nuts and asking for trouble, you come along with a simple and safe idea, that I think I can do. Its gives me a nice little welding project, too.

DSW- I still think that I will make those long, nested aluminum ramps too. I will send photos when I have something to show. It may be a little while before I get to these jobs. God do I wish that I had a warm garage to work on the truck in about now.

Metalmeltr- The pipe-pile installation side of my job does require some occasional welding for top plates and pipe-end splicing [which I'm experimenting with instead of couplings]- but to be honest, for now, I am just a hobby-level welder. I've taken a weekend intro course at a design-build school, and am starting a 16-session evening course on stick and O/A welding/cutting at a local vocational school in a couple of weeks.

My reason to learn to weld was to be able to fabricate steel frames to perform small scale pile load tests on those mini-piles. But I really did it because, as a structural engineer, I've always thought that welding was the coolest, most powerful thing - I've designed simple structural welds for buildings and excavation support systems for about 25 years, but I always watched others doing it, and had never done any myself. Since learning the basics, I can't stop thinking of new things to make or fix with it. It gets my creative juices going. I think that it's also made me a better designer, cause I'm getting a sense of what a pain poorly-located, impractical welds can be.

The cool thing is getting ideas from all you guys who have a lot more practical experience in this stuff than me. I've learned so much just by reading the posts on this forum. Thanks again.

Marv

[farmersamm]

Hey, I'm really glad you like it.

The slot should be as long as the entire length of the hook portion so that it'll drop in.

Play around with the idea and modify it

[William McCormick Jr]

Sorry, Bill, I didn' t see your last post when I was writing mine. When you say using an A-frame, do you mean hoisting the machine straight up to the right height, then pushing it onto the bed.?


Yes sir. Even alone you can manipulate the thing over the tailgate. And drop it, for a lack of a happier word then drop. Ha-ha. I am sure I could weld up a set that weigh about 50 pounds or less, seventy five pounds if you want nice wheels. They could disassemble into five sticks basically. Or five pieces of extrusion.

My father has a mounted pivoting crane on his trailer that he uses to pickup his welder, onto the trailer. That works well.
Over the years my father has built cranes for the outboard motor repair guys. To pick up their motors and put them in the truck. They are pretty small, pretty light and work well. You can take them out too.


Sincerely,


William McCormick

[metalmeltr]

How much does the auxilary power uint weigh?

[SolidWelder]

about 330 lbs- say at most 350 lbs.

[Oxide]

I have an idea. I'm assuming that you have a hitch on your truck. If you can get this unit:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?R=200328891&storeId=6970&productId=200328891&in_merch=1

Lose the ball . Then buy this winch:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200342884_200342884

Now weld this winch to where the ball was. Buy a nylon strap with a hook on the end:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200337475_200337475

You'd have to make an extended crank handle so you could crank the winch from the side of the truck while the bed was down. Setup your ramps, hook the strap to the rear axle of the power unit, crank and up you go.

No I dont work for Northern lol.

[William McCormick Jr]

Google "Material Lift" and see what you get. Here's something you might look at: http://www.genieindustries.com/ml-series/ml-1-2.asp

We have one of them, they are cool too. We use them to lift large rack compressor into place. In tight places.


But they are pretty heavy, and when you lay them down, sometimes they leak, and the chain comes off or picks up slack during transport, not standing up.

All the lifting devices suffer from either too much weight, or to hard to stow in the truck. Or they need to be stored upright.



Sincerely,


William McCormick

[thumper007jb]

ever thought about a tommylift lift gate?

[SolidWelder]

hey thumper- boy that would do the trick- but I don't think that it would work with my present configuration, with the cap door and tailgate presently forming a locked up bed. i.e. no room for the tommy gate with all the devices [e.g. tools,bedslide]that I have in there already. but thx for the info- maybe my next truck.