more definition

[punkfreerider]

hey guys got a quick question for your...
a little background...i work with 16 and 14 gauge sheet steel, machine set at 138 amps, usually with the pedal about threequarters of the way through its travel, 3/32 tungston, 1/16 er70s-2 filler rod...
to lead up to my question, my boss is quite happy with the definition and amount of penetration in my lap, butt, and inside corner welds, but when it comes to outside corners, he says i dont have enough definition...he says that the penetration is fine, and there is no undercut or anything, the bead is just a little too flat and the ripples, or stack of dimes, isnt defined enough...i tried going a lot slower, and i tried weaving the torch, any other suggestions?

[David R]

I don't need no stinkin dimes. :)

Its in the dips. maybe a little cooler weld. I always try to make outside corners look like they weren't welded, but like they were bent. Just my point of view.

David :)

[punkfreerider]

thats exactly what they look like! it looks more like the two pieces flowed very fluidly together, but he wants dimes, so thats what i gotta do lol...i agree with you though, david, i mean the penetration, strength and leakproof-ness are all there...just shy in one area as far as what my boss wants lol thank for the reply!

[duaneb55]

I'm still new to TIG but I'm with David on this one punk. I'd say your boss is hung up on the 'stack-o-dimes' aesthetics and of the opinion it's not a 'good' weld unless it looks that way. Trouble is - he's the boss.:rolleyes:

[revhard]

Trouble is - he's the boss.:rolleyes:

This is the only part that matters!!!
Maybe ask him to show you what exactly he wants...
Also, post some pics for sh&*s and giggles!:drinkup:

[Fat Bastard]

Ask Mr Boss to don a hood and show you how its done?


Stack O Dimes so many of you guys have been brainwashed into beveling this crap.


Product of the times I guess Just like the Paris kid getting press for being a drunken slut whore.

[punkfreerider]

ill def post some pics on monday...since i cant really bring an oil pan home, ill play with some scrap on lunch and bring it home...i appreciate all the input guys

[David R]

I will try some at work on monday. See if I can make the dimes. 16 and 14 ga is pretty thin.

David :)

[duaneb55]

Ask Mr Boss to don a hood and show you how its done?
X2

Stack O Dimes so many of you guys have been brainwashed into beveling this crap.
Easy does it TJ! It doesn't appear to me anyone posting thus far in the thread is hung up on any particular coin concept. :drinkup:

Product of the times I guess Just like the Paris kid getting press for being a drunken slut whore.
X2 X2!:rolleyes:

[sn0border88]

Ya'll can go ahead and bash the stack of dimes look but some items need to look good on top of being sound. If he's getting good penetration with no undercut theres nothing wrong with trying to get a nicer looking bead.

For stuff like that I use my pulser alot. I would switch to smaller filler first off, either .045 or .035 and turn the pulse down to 1.5-2.0 PPS. Then you can either lay the filler in the joint or add it by hand like normal just try and keep a consistent speed going and practice. Thicker outside joints are very easy to make look nice, thin stuff can be tricky and its really easy to add to much filler especially with 1/16 rod.

[Craig in Denver]

Ask Mr Boss to don a hood and show you how its done?

Stack O Dimes so many of you guys have been brainwashed into believing this crap.

Product of the times I guess Just like the Paris kid getting press for being a drunken slut whore.Well, that's pretty much what I think. Put me down for a X3. :cool:

[DesertRider33]

Sounds like he wants a tig bead stacked like Pamela Anderson, not flat like Paris Hilton...

[punkfreerider]

so i forgot to bring a sample home to take pics of, but i did ask my boss to show me how he wanted the weld to look...but when he laid a bead on an outside corner, there wasnt enough pentration (they are looking for you to be able to see a little bit of weld on the other side) and it looked like the bead was just sitting onto of the parent material...but it looked like a stack of dimes! haha

[David R]

I gave it a shot today. I tried .045 filler thinking it would help, but it made smaller dimes. 1/16 worked ok, but It didn't take much. The .045 is on the left for about 1/4 of the bead. Also is a pic of the full penetration. This was 1/8" angle. The thinnest I had around. I did this left handed for some reason,. I'm a righty.

Like I said, screw the dimes, make a good strong proper weld.

29009

29010

David

[wirehunt]

Go for bigger wire, wash a drop then move forward. But why the hell the boss wants a weaker weld has me beat.

[quasi]

second on the pulser. i don't use one very often but this is the perfect joint for it. if your machine doesn't have one built in do it with your foot. just give it a good stomp every time you add filler. i often prefer this method over an automated pulser because i can ramp up and down at the beginning and end of the weld.

why is the dime look bad? as long as you can see them but can't feel them i can't understand why it would be bad?

[David R]

Quasi, the dime look is not bad, but not needed to be a good weld either. Penetration, wet toes, and consistency are more important.

The dimes don't make the weldor, the weldor makes the dimes.

This is an oil pan, will they even be seen once installed?

David :)

[punkfreerider]

so one of the trainees tacked up a bunch of cubes for practice, and i snagged it and welded it up...timed it, took 6.5 minutes to do the whole thing...every edge is roughly 5.5 inches...not perfect, but what do you guys think?

and thanks for all the responses!

[sn0border88]

I see what your boss means now, slow down if you want it to look nicer. I would use pulser and .045 wire but thats just me.

[wirehunt]

Looks good to me, in fact what more could he want....

[SundownIII]

punk,

For an outside corner on that gauge material, your amps are way too high. Try dropping them back to about 110 on the machine. You'll still need to back off on the pedal as heat builds in the material.

I would recommend dropping back to a 1/16" red tungsten.

If you want (boss wants) more definition in the dips, go up to 3/32" filler.


I'm actually surprised you're getting that good a bead at those amps. Must be running like heck.

Not saying this is the only way, but try it and let us know if it gives the desired results.

[TozziWelding]

I am a freak, I don't like dimes, to me dimes say cold. I like a nice continious "tight" bead, thats what I go for.

[David R]

Thank you for the pic. VVVVV not CCCCC shows you are running hot and fast. Which is OK, but to get CCCCC (the stinkin dimes) you need to back off and slow down. If I remember right, you do a lot of these oil pans? A bunch in a day? Every day? I can see why you would go hotter and faster as you do more and more of em.

David

[punkfreerider]

punk,

For an outside corner on that gauge material, your amps are way too high. Try dropping them back to about 110 on the machine. You'll still need to back off on the pedal as heat builds in the material.

I would recommend dropping back to a 1/16" red tungsten.

If you want (boss wants) more definition in the dips, go up to 3/32" filler.


I'm actually surprised you're getting that good a bead at those amps. Must be running like heck.

Not saying this is the only way, but try it and let us know if it gives the desired results.

I was moving rather quick on this cube...thats one of the things that this company looks for, is a lot of speed. We dont work on true piece-rate, but its something similar...they keep track of your rates and monthly (non) existent raises are based on solely your average rate for the month. for instance, they hired an excellent weldor to come in part time and weld some pans up. they came out great, 0 leaks, and the beads were beautiful, 20000000 times better than anything i can do, but he was way off of the time that they wanted, so they straight up told him to sacrifice some of the quality to speed it up...they call it "a fine balance"...so i got the owner saying "speed up speed up!" and the supervisor saying "more dimes more dimes" and i dont know where to go haha...this leads me to believe that, yeah i learned a lot about how to weld properly, but its time to try my best to move on if i really want to progress...i mentioned the navy in a couple other posts, and it really is starting to sound like a good idea...

[DesertRider33]

Unfortunately that's the way it is in production. You got the QC guy saying slow down and make it look better and you got the production manager saying step it up we need to ship more product faster. You're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. It's a no-win situation. I did that for many years, some of those welding, others doing other production operations, but it's all the same, sacrifice quality for speed, or sacrifice speed for quality, but you never get enough of either at the same time to please everybody.

[jamz]

pulse and continuous feed the filler metal.. i had good luck with that in school..

[punkfreerider]

your spot on david...lots and lots of repitition...there are lots of different oil pans but when it boils down to it they are all just glorified boxes haha...but ill def try slowing down with less heat tomorrow...im still relatively new, only been doin it for 7 months or so, so i like to go in early and practice various things, so ill try that and bring a sample home tomorrow...and desertrider, your spot on too...i would absolutely love to just take my time and do the best i can, but then the big man is spending too much money on each product haha...thanks again for all your input guys, it all helps a lot

[punkfreerider]

i think i may have figured out what i was doing wrong...i think that it was a comination of having the torch at too extreme an angle, and too much heat to make up for the lack of focus because of the torch angle...so i moved the torch from about 65 or 70 degrees to more like 80, backed off on the pedal, and they came out much more defined, and still no loss of penetration. another thing that i do and it seems that noone else here does, is that i tend to set my machine considerably higher than it needs to be and just adjust accordingly with the pedal...my machine is always set at 135 regardless...like i never really play with the max amps unless im switching materials all together, from steel to aluminum, but then i have to adjust all the parameters haha...does anyone else do this with the max amps?