Home Made Hydraulic tanks.....pics inside

[Boostinjdm]

Here is two tanks I am working on. First tank is for my press, and I have a question. I didn't have any alum tube for the pickup and I didn't want to have the port at the bottom. So will the piece I have tacked in there work ok if I cap the top and weld the sides? I didn't see any problems with it, but thought I would ask. Second tank is for my dump trailer. I still have to make the weld in fittings for both.

[tessdad]

The only problem I see with the half pipe pickup tube, is that it is half the capacity of the hole it is leading to. I would also have a threaded port at the bottom with a plug in it for draining/maintenance in the future.

[Boostinjdm]

If that's the only problem, then I am good to go. That's an 1 3/8" hole it's leading to, but I'm going to weld in a 3/4" NPT fitting. So size won't be a problem. I thought about the drain plug too, that's what the dimple in the bottom is for. I turn all my fittings out of 1 1/2" alum round. I cut a should on the backside to fit the 1 3/8" hole sawed holes. It helps me locate the fittings before welding. I can also weld the inside if I'm feeling spunky that way. Almost forgot, the pump drawing off this tank is only 1/2 a gallon a minute, so the real reason for the 3/4" NPT is cuz it will fit my filter housing.

[mrmikey]

A couple of comments.
The less restrictions and the higher the suction is above the pump the better off you're going to be. All that's charging the pump is atmospheric pressureI so the more head you have the better off you are. I understand your reluctance to put the suction in the bottom of the tank but it's the best place. Weld your coupling above the inside of the tank by 1/2" or so, that way you won't pick up any trash off the bottom.
It doesn't look as if you have a return pipe in the tank. The return oil should be discharged below the surface of the oil so as not to aeriate it.
Add a baffle, if not to prevent movement of the oil but to cause it to take the longest path from return to suction. That way it'll have more time to dissipate any heat.
Almost forgot, the pump drawing off this tank is only 1/2 a gallon a minute, so the real reason for the 3/4" NPT is cuz it will fit my filter housing
Not good practice to put a filter in the suction, any blockage even minor will will cause cavitation of the pump which will make short work of a pump. Usually all that's in the suction, if anything, is a suction strainer http://tinyurl.com/yaugwe9 which will keeps out the big pieces. Put you filter in the return line.....Mike

[Boostinjdm]

All that's charging the pump is atmospheric pressureI so the more head you have the better off you are.

It doesn't look as if you have a return pipe in the tank. The return oil should be discharged below the surface of the oil so as not to aeriate it.

Thanks for the comments, but I don't quite buy the atmospheric pressure being the only thing charging the pump. What goes out must come in. I guess I figured the only time I could possibly have trouble would be the initial prime, but the fluid level will be well above the pump, it will even be above all the ports. I was thinking of running the fluid level at about the top of the center port, that will leave a couple inches for expansion. So.....do I need a return tube if the port it's self is below the fluid level?

I was planning on running a valve that returns to tank in the center position so fluid will always be circulating without being under pressure. I chose this both to ease the startup load on the motor and to keep the current draw to a minimum while idling.

I appreciate the input, keep it coming. I'm going to run out and take a pic of the tank in it's intended location, so maybe I can get a little more input.

[dave powelson]

Those tanks are not 'home made'.....they're SHOP BUILT---a world of
difference in the workmanship, design, etc. Nice job!

[Boostinjdm]

This was the intended layout with the filter on the suction side. I guess it makes more sense to me to filter the fluid before it gets run through the expensive stuff. Valve will probably be mounted directly over top of the pump. I have a feeling I will be making up some steel lines for this due to the tight quarters.

[Boostinjdm]

Those tanks are not 'home made'.....they're SHOP BUILT---a world of
difference in the workmanship, design, etc. Nice job!

I'm making them at home, doesn't that count? I guess I make everything at home now though...:p

[mrmikey]

My apologies, I neglected to mention they are nice looking tanks and I'm not picking, just commenting, well...you asked <G>
......but I don't quite buy the atmospheric pressure being the only thing charging the pump. What goes out must come in
True but the oil is not being 'forced' into the suction by anything other than atmospheric pressure, the tank is not pressurized. If the tank is above the pump you'll be fine. Think of a water pump for a dug well, the deepest you can pump without going to a jet pump or submersible is 30' or so. Reason being the pump is not pulling the water up it's atmospheric pressure forcing it up into the vacuum caused by the pump. Atmospheric pressure being 14.7 psi and water having a static pressure of approximately 1/2 lb per ft the highest you could hope to go is 30' roughly speaking.
So.....do I need a return tube if the port it's self is below the fluid level?
Nope, just so long as the return oil is not aimed at the suction, if it is there's no chance for cooling. If you're using it on a press that won't be running continuously it's not going to make a lot of difference.
I was planning on running a valve that returns to tank in the center position so fluid will always be circulating without being under pressure
That's what you want, an open center valve. The other type you're thinking of is a closed center and it relies on a variable displacement pump that destrokes when it's not being used. If you have a closed center valve running on a conventional fixed displacement pump you're constantly going over pressure relief and you'll overheat the oil as well as cause unnecessary wear......Mike

[Boostinjdm]

If the tank is above the pump you'll be fine.

So...as pictured will work? Filter on the suction side too??? It does have a spring loaded bypass in the housing in case of blockage. You mentioned getting the fluid to take the longest path possible, that was the real reason for the pickup. Pick it up in the bottom left and return it to the top right. As I said, the fluid level will be above all the ports. Cooling is also the reason for going with alum for the tank, and....I just like aluminum.

I wasn't trying to argue, just needed some reasoning to back up the statement.:waving:

[Boostinjdm]

That's what you want, an open center valve.

Oh man! That brings up something else. For all those that haven't had to deal with this....there is more than one type of "open center". I ordered an "open center" valve, after letting it sit in the box for a few months waiting to be used, I finally got it out and looked at it. It's open center all right...open to all ports. Not what I'd call ideal for something you may use as a clamp. So I still need to call and beg for an exchange for a valve that blocks both work ports when centered, but allows the pressure to flow freely to the tank. Pride is kinda hard to swallow though, maybe I'll just order a new spool and swap it out. Then chalk the expense up to the price of education.:blush:

[Boostinjdm]

Ok, did some searching, lot's of searching....Found out that a filter on the suction side is a no no. From what I understand, the only thing thats acceptable is a 150 or higher micron screen, and there are even arguments against that. It appears that the issues do not affect a gear pump as much, but to be safe I guess I'll just filter the return. That's going to complicate my plumbing a bit, cuz I thought I had it figured out.

Next question. Steel lines......anything special or will brake lines work? I have a flaring kit and am fairly handy with it. According to the lit on my pump, it will produce 4000psi intermitantly. That's the goal. Prolly set the pressure relief at 3800-3900 though.

[Shox Dr]

snip

Pride is kinda hard to swallow though, maybe I'll just order a new spool and swap it out. Then chalk the expense up to the price of education.:blush:

It's not your pride you need to be worrying about; It's them that should have asked you, which type you needed.

Nice work by the way.

[bigwhitebeast]

With the filter on the suction side of the pump the bypass would never open, it takes pressure not vacuum to do that. Also don't be tempted to put the filter on the pressure side of the system because most spin on steel filters have a rated burst pressure of around 300 psi, the return line is where it belongs unless you have a high dollar filter unit for the pressure side.

I'm not sure of the rating of brake lines but normal vehicle brake fluid pressure is 800-2000 psi, still below the possible 4000 psi you are looking at.

Beautiful tank by the way

[mrmikey]

It's open center all right...open to all ports
Sounds as if you've gotten a motoring spool. It's primary use is for....welll...motors <G> among other applications. It's made that way so when you release the valve there's not a sudden stop if you had a reel turning for instance. Something that would have a lot of momentum, if it was to try and stop suddenly the hydraulic motor would turn into a pump and build up pressure above and beyond the systems design. You can check if you pull the spool out as usually the lands are not square across but tapered and sometimes have grooves cut in line with the spools axis.

Like Bigwhitebeast said regarding the filter and brake lines.

As for hydraulic tubing, ehhh, personally I think working with it is a pia, I'd sooner go with hose. 1/2" (-08) 2 wire is only rated at I think 3500psi so you'd either have to go with 4 wire or drop down a size to 3/8 (-06).

It doesn't look like it'd be hard to plumb up, from here anyway. Mount the return filter directly to the tank, the suction can go from the tank directly to the pump, looks as if you'd only need a 3/4" suction hose so that would be no problem, pressure line goes to valve mounted up top, return from valve to return filter. Keep in mind, putting a couple of valves in now might make repairs at a later date easier, one in the suction and one in the return. Just be sure to confirm they're open before starting the system, especially the return.
The only thing that might pose a problem is if the return filter is below the level of the oil. When you change the filter you're going to have oil flowing out, so you might have to lift the filter up a bit using a couple of 90 deg elbows. Either that or not worry about it or tip the tank up slightly when changing the filter, that is unless you put a shutoff valve in......Mike

[Billdacat]

Nice Work!!!!!
Seek out your local hydraulic hose shop...They can build you a nice set of custom hoses for a reasonable price. BTDT.... They have the know how and the tooling for bomb proof hoses... Home fabricated hydraulic hose is a PITA. :D

[Boostinjdm]

I hear what you guys are saying about the hoses, but....I don't think you realize how tight this is going to be. I have a 10" wide by 38" long by 14" high space that all of this fits into. Nothing can be above the tank other than the fill cap because it will interfere with the lowest setting for the table. Once I get the valve and the relief in the little space in the middle, I'm going to have lots of twists and turns and I don't think hoses are going to pull it off due to the length of the crimped fittings. We had a hose machine where I used to work and I have made hoses in the past so I have a little experience. I don't know, we'll see. Mission for today is to get the fittings made and the tanks completed and mounted. After that, I will work out the valve mounting and line routing.

The wrong valve was my deal, I ordered it by part # that I picked out. Anybody need a motoring valve? Maybe I'll use it for my roller I want to build.

[mrmikey]

Don't forget you don't have to go straight to the valve you can always add a loop in the hose. If done correctly it doesn't look bad, you could always say it's for vibration isolation <G>....Mike

[Boostinjdm]

Yeah, I looked at it a little more today. I might be able to work it out so all the hoses are 10" long or so. We'll see, I got my fittings made, so I'm going to go finish up the tanks now.

[Boostinjdm]

One down, one to go. Fits like a glove. Little dissapointed in the polish though. Came out looking like gunmetal. I wasn't going for a chrome look, just a protected surface. I used Never Dull cuz that's what I remember using as a kid. Lot's of rubbing.

I have another plumbing question. This pump is suposed to be power up and coil controled down. I have never hooked one of these up before. What I want to know is...do the two ports (red and blue caps) have to be T'd together? Red side has the relief on it, so I'm assuming that's pressure. Blue side has the coil on it, so I'm assuming that's return. I haven't seen any evidence the two are connected inside. So to get my one hose for the single acting cylinder, I'm thinking I have to T them together. Anybody know what's up for sure?

[mrmikey]

...do the two ports (red and blue caps) have to be T'd together
Got me on that one, there is a third port correct, the suction?.
You had mentioned that you had a control valve, the one that you picked up incorrectly? If you have the pump setup I think you have, you don't need another valve. The pump is power up, gravity, or in your case, spring pressure down that is if your press cylinder is a proper press cylinder. There was no schematic with the pump when you got it?.....Mike

[kjlindgr]

The reservoir looks VERY pretty! That's some sweet aluminum work!

[Fat Bastard]

Ah? I hate to do this but I just can't resist, First Really nice craftsmanship!

Now the bad... I can pick up the entire setup you have made 3000psi working pressure 1.5-2 gallon reservoir used for $50.00 and new for $125.00. Why build it from scratch?

[Boostinjdm]

Got me on that one, there is a third port correct, the suction?.
You had mentioned that you had a control valve, the one that you picked up incorrectly? If you have the pump setup I think you have, you don't need another valve. The pump is power up, gravity, or in your case, spring pressure down that is if your press cylinder is a proper press cylinder. There was no schematic with the pump when you got it?.....Mike

I think you got my two projects mixed. One tank, the one I was asking about T'ing the lines, is in my dump trailer. The other, that I ordered the wrong valve for, is in my press. No schematic came with the pump. I just figured that this pump is common for dump trailers and somebody out there has one parked in their back yard and could take a look for me, or has replaced the pump in the past and knows how to plump it.

[Boostinjdm]

Ah? I hate to do this but I just can't resist, First Really nice craftsmanship!

Now the bad... I can pick up the entire setup you have made 3000psi working pressure 1.5-2 gallon reservoir used for $50.00 and new for $125.00. Why build it from scratch?

The one in the dump trailer? I bought the pump new without the reservoir because it wouldn't fit where and how I wanted it to. I'm picky that way. And I prefer new anytime I can swing it, even if it costs more. I've been down the used route many times before. In fact, I have a used pump and reservoir sitting on the shelf the was free, but did not include the valving, specs, and is unknown condition. In retrospect, I prolly should have put the dump trailer tank in my trailer thread so Dabar could poke me about wasting time.:cry:

[mrmikey]

Duhhh, never said I was the sharpest knife in the drawer (G).....Mike

[Boostinjdm]

Got a little more done on the tank for the press. Here is a pic of the inside, glare kinda sux. Anyways, it's got two returns, a pickup, and a baffle. Pickup tube goes down to 1/2" above the bottom. Return tubes go halfway down to make sure that they are below the fluid level at all times. Baffle has lower corner opposite the ports cut off. Hope this works, cuz I already buttoned it up. Got to find some pipe plugs tommarrow so I can leak test it and polish 'er up.

[Boostinjdm]

Don't laugh at the welds. That new Aluminized Tungsten was giving me fits.:laugh:

[Shox Dr]

Don't laugh at the welds. That new Aluminized Tungsten was giving me fits.:laugh:


:laugh: Ay they take some getting used to

[Boostinjdm]

Well here it is.

[mrmikey]

Looks good. Now, get 'er workin' <G>....Mike

[Boostinjdm]

It may be a bit yet, still got to get the correct valve, and a relief also.