Alibre is the answer but at 999.00 dollars????

[psient]

HI:

I am desperate for a drafting program that will let me do with a computer what I used to do with my scale ruler and graph paper. I've tried several (design cad, inkscape) but only have become disillusioned and frustrated.

I saw a link to Alibre for 99 dollars but missed that boat.

Anyone have a solution. Jeez all I want is an architectural drafting program that will let me design a welding cart in 2D.

Thanks.

Psient

[BrianNye Welding guy]

Hey Man
If you want an intuitive feel like Alibre or the more expensive programs google sketchup while limited is some regards for being free is a great tool if you can learn their system. It is a little different but is easier than plotting out every x and y like you would be with turboCAD or something similar. Don`t feel bad about missing the Alibre special as any of the cool tools like the sheet metal package still cost a bundle. I almost bought it until I found that out.

[mrmikey]

....easier than plotting out every x and y like you would be with turboCAD or.....
I used to think the same way, once I got onto TurboCAD quite a few years ago it's intuitive with the keyboard shortcuts, to each his/her own tho. I totally understand where you're coming from, I can't go AutoCAD at all....Mike

[BrianNye Welding guy]

MrMikey
You know I can`t say that I used the shortcuts a heck of a lot. Maybe I should give it another chance. I think I ruined it for myself by playing with a parametric CAD tool because Alibre and the like work more how I think. Turbo Cad is better at some tasks than say google sketchup for sure but I just started sketchup and today I banged out two nice 3d drawings of tooling I hope to make within 1.5 hours. That time included two or three trials before I figured out the right way to approach the type of part I was designing. These drawings were well beyond the scope of anything I ever figured out how to do in TurboCAD but then again I am no engineer, just a computer geek fabricator/welder so some of turboCAD is surely beyond me. For the uninitiated and broke Google sketchup all the way!

[mrmikey]

These drawings were well beyond the scope of anything I ever figured out how to do in TurboCAD
I know where you're coming from, I've tried numerous times to get my head around 3d and it's a lesson in futility. When you look at some of the renderings that people do it's unbelievable.
I'm going to have a look at Google sketchup just for the halibut...Mike

[Fat Bastard]

Is the Google app a modeling app or a 2-D drawing app?

One of the most useful things in Ailbre is the "assembly" where I can take "part" sketches and assemble them into the finished product. Then I can edit the part sketches in the assembly or in a separate window and the program will update the 2-D and associated assembly pages all at once.


So in the case of an engine to change the stroke of the rods I edit one rod and all the rods will change in the assembly. The way the parts constrain in Ailbre the wrist pin to the piston and the rod and the rod to the crank all stay attached and when I change the rod length the piston and crank connection is never broken

So when you are working with fabricating say a tool chest with pull out drawers, I can in the assembly insert the drawers into the roller slides and actuate them in the program to check for interference.


If you can afford it it is one of the better 3-D parametric CAD CAM programs for about 1/10 the cost of AutoDesk.

The Sheet metal side of it is great if you understand how to run a press break.

[GiddyWelder]

I've used the Express side of Alibre and did a decent job of making a simple part before the express version was done away with(I'm a member of the alibre forum)

[lakeside]

I use my Excel spreadsheet program to draw everything. Just shrink the column width's down to equal the row height and you have a piece of graph paper. Don't like the size of the graph paper grid; you can change it easily enough.

Then use the drawing toolbar to create your circles, rectangles or any odd shape you desire.

I tried all the cad softwares, but their learning curve is steep and I don't use them often enough to remember all the tricks. But, drawing something on a spread sheet is so easy it doesn't matter how often you use it. Basically it's just click and drag.

Here is a pic of a corner of the house I am building that was drawn up in Excel.

43546

[A_DAB_will_do]

lakeside,

I've done the same thing with Excel a few times, but I dont' think I would again.

FB,

Google's sketchup has some of the functionality you describe, in terms of linked objects and resizing. you can create components and then copy them. Changing one "component' will affect them all. The tutorial shows creating a chair model and changing all four legs by editing just one.

Google sketch up does not handle everything well. I find it frustrating to resize objects once they're in contact with another surface. Sketchup tends to 'meld' objects together once you bring them into contact. It also doesn't handle curved 3D surfaces as well as I'd like; or I haven't figured out how I'm supposed to handle them correctly....

Still, it's free and it does handle most of my drafting needs...

[psient]

I ended up shelling out 69 bucks for autosketch 9. Does what I need in a way that does not require a new beginning. Just like drawing on paper but it calculates all the dimensions relative to your designated grid and units. So details are easy as are views and elevations.


One of the most useful things in Ailbre is the "assembly" where I can take "part" sketches and assemble them into the finished product. Then I can edit the part sketches in the assembly or in a separate window and the program will update the 2-D and associated assembly pages all at once.

So when you are working with fabricating say a tool chest with pull out drawers, I can in the assembly insert the drawers into the roller slides and actuate them in the program to check for interference.


I notice that Alibre Design 12.0 standard is 197 bucks. I cannot tell if this version/level will do what you are referring to FB. That is, the program appears to do both 2D and 3D.
The 'assembly' feature you mention may only reside in the more advanced versions no? Any comments? :blob4:

Thanks,

Jon

[Fat Bastard]

99% of the time I draw in 2-D then extrude to the third dimension. Even when drawing in 3-D I draw a path I want the part to follow then it is extruded along that path.


The big deal with Alibre and Autodesk Inventor or Autodesk Revit. are that they are 3-D parametric modelers. In a parametric model a part has mass. in Autocad it is nothing more than lines on paper.


Both serve a function.

[Freebird01]

real cad software is expensive....a seat of solid works is about $4,000....Inventor $15,000....Solid Edge $8,000

even autocad LT is about $1000 seat

[SmokinPRanch]

The big deal with Alibre and Autodesk Inventor or Autodesk Revit. are that they are 3-D parametric modelers. In a parametric model a part has mass. in Autocad it is nothing more than lines on paper.

AutoCAD solids do have mass.

Al

[Freebird01]

parametric doesn't just mean it has mass. a better definition is a parametric model is feature driven vs dimension driven. Autocad solids are what are called Boolean solids. Its based on cut, extrude, intersect. It is a solid but in a parametric solid you can edit the model using profiles for cutting or extruding. holes are put in with hole commands rather then drawing a circle and cutting it away...

Another feature of most modern 3d packages is the UCS (user coordinate system) kinda works backwards. In autocad solids to move to a different plane you need to rotate the UCS (for you machining guys XYZ) around your part, where in most 3D cad packages the Part and UCS stay the same and your viewpoint will rotate around it.

confused yet?

any questions I will be happy to answer. I am a mechanical designer by trade and have been using AutoCAD for over 10 years and various 3D packages over 7 years..

[SmokinPRanch]

Freebird,

I'm still using AutoCAD 2000 for my 3d solid work. It was bought for me when I was designing for a large corporation. Now that I'm out of the design field I'm sort of stuck in the dark ages.

Anyway, I was wondering if AutoCAD has started to move to parametrics in their more recent versions. Some of the videos I've seen it looks like they've made some big improvements in their 3D end. As you know, boolean creating and editing is labor intensive. But it looks like maybe now solids can be edited with grips and some commands similar to 2D commands?

Thanks, Al

[Freebird01]

They did do that. It is basically an integration between their Mechanical Desktop product (phased out 2002-2003ish) and full version auto cad. Mechanical Desktop was like the step between 3d solids in ACAD and inventor. It was extremely labor intensive...not very stable...and created huge files. The modern 3D packages have streamlined what MD was starting to do.

My condolences on the 3D solids. I haven't done it in a long time but just thinking about it makes me cringe. I currently work in a consulting firm and we almost picked up a job doing that...

I did some more looking at Alibre and I may have to download the free trial and play with it. I am in the process of starting my own parts company and currently I am using and old version of solid edge thats installed on my laptop for a job we did a couple of weeks ago. Its not bad but after using the new version on a regular basis its painful to go back to it. Not to mention that a laptop isn't the best machine to be running 3D cad software. I can't justify the $4000 for a seat of solid works even though I love the program. Not to mention Alibre has basic CAM functions in the expert edition and I want to re-tool my plasmacam table eventually to a stand alone controller that's more open source and doesn't use their software.

[Marcel Bauer]

I don't take the time to use a comp. unless I intend the dwg. to be used by others.

I am faster for a one-off doing it on the drawing table by hand, and just as good/understandable.

I am a fair draftsman, though...

Sometimes comp. drafting programs just eat a lot of time for nothing. Other times they are indispensable.

Complexity of the machine/drawing package has a lot to do with it though...

[kenklingerman]

I love solidworks and autocad, I can whip out a line drawing fast in autocad.

Solidworks is a powerful program with excellent tutorials. Awsome for assemblies and fit up. Not real good if all you need is line drawings. It can also do load/stress analysis for single parts.

Unfortunately I cannot state publicly how I have both of these pieces of software at no cost to me.:D

They both run great on my cheap laptop.:waving:

[Metarinka]

In my career I use inventor, autocad and unix
my preference is for inventor probably because I know it better, and I can do good assembly and sheet metal work.

For my personal projects I use sketchup
can make some great dimensional drawings FAST. I also use it in my career to layout factory floors, as it's simple to make quick approximations of machine components and extrude a shop floor off a blueprint.

[wintermute]

I use Rhino3d...does a pretty good job (much better than Alibre in my experience), but it is a bit expensive ($995...but if you're a student it's only $195). I prefer SolidWorks...but well, at $30,000 it's a bit out of my price range (I think I'd actually buy a Tormach CNC machine and a Miller Bobcat 250 first and continue to use Rhino3d).

--Wintermute

[kenklingerman]

I use Rhino3d...does a pretty good job (much better than Alibre in my experience), but it is a bit expensive ($995...but if you're a student it's only $195). I prefer SolidWorks...but well, at $30,000 it's a bit out of my price range (I think I'd actually buy a Tormach CNC machine and a Miller Bobcat 250 first and continue to use Rhino3d).

--Wintermute

Solidworks on the average depending on options is around $5000 student edition is $1495 where did that $30,000 price come from??

Catia (17,000) and Pro-E ARE in the 10g+ range though.

and when Pro-E first came out the idiots wanted 50-70g, no sale!

[wintermute]

Solidworks on the average depending on options is around $5000 student edition is $1495 where did that $30,000 price come from??

Catia (17,000) and Pro-E ARE in the 10g+ range though.

and when Pro-E first came out the idiots wanted 50-70g, no sale!

I was listing out the price for all three of my systems (two primary design systems and a CNC connected system). At basically $8k per seat for premium with $2k per for the service contacts, it comes out ot $30k.

At least that's what I was quoted to get setup :D

--Wintermute

[kenklingerman]

OH!, that's different, multiple seats and integration multiplies the cost dramatically.

When buying software if it's at all possible start a bidding war between competitors, at least in the past that could be very effective.

[Freebird01]

myself im faster doing a 2d autocad print then i am at sketching out something. usually if i have to sketch it out its done with chalk right on the steel im working on.

I havent used inventor enough to comment but i use solidworks and solid edge on a daily basis. I prefer solid works myself. and there is nothing like a good 3d modeling program for making anything with bends.

I have since downloaded Alibre and messed around with their software. Personally i wasnt too impresed with it. Maybe I am too used to the nice expensive programs but the way the tree laid itself out and the fact that you cant use the scroll wheel for zoom is just barbaric lol.

the price is decent but i think i would rather chance using my software at work rather then blow my money on a program that would be painful to use.

[burnandreturn]

I think it is a little bit like a man with an axe getting a chain saw. And then the man with a big tree harvester mounted on a big John Deere dedicated tree machine going to a chain saw.

Both get the same tool in the end but with a totally different perspective. Boils down to how much more money can you make if you invest in better tools. For some the investment will mean more income and pay for itself. Others it is just a want not a need. Quite simple actually.

Here in Germany I can get the German representative for Alibre on the phone on Sunday if I need him for support. He is the owner of the company that represents Alibre here in Germany. If all of my vendors had support such as Alibre in Germany I would be a very happy camper. Just to clarify I don't know this guy personally, I am just a small time customer.

[Freebird01]

yep i agree with you 100%. im not dissing their software....i just find the others easier since they are my bread and butter at the moment. my background is not in welding per say even though this is a welding forum. welding and fab has always been a hobby of mine. I am a 3d machine designer/CAD guy by trade and have been doing it my so far short adult career (about 7 years)

If my personal business starts making money I will probably splurge and try and get a deal on a seat of solid works but until them ill continue to use what i have available to me.

In my use of Alibre the zoom thing was more of a nuisance then anything. I was still able to get my part drawn and designed in their sheet metal environment and create a flat pattern. I'm not saying its a bad program at all. And really who knows....depending on the situation I may end up with Alibre in the end strictly due to the cost. It is a pretty decent package "for the price" key words there. If Alibre were on par price wise with solidworks/solid edge i would rate it more harsh. but the cost is a major factor

[advanced.ironworks]

I have Solidworks but I still find myself using Sketchup as my go to in the time of need. Yes it is 3D but once you get used to the environment it is really easy and fun to work with.

[evoarc]

I have utilzed DeltaCad for the last couple of years, quite inexpensive and it works great for basic drafting and sketching

good luck