View Full Version : Adhesives
big rig guy
01-10-2004, 10:40 PM
Wondering aloud here what you guys think of the growing trend toward installing alot of the panel replacements on cars and truck etc with urathane adhesives as it is now the recomended practise in place of mig welding.
Take for example, you half ton pickup with the cab corners rusted out, you would purchase replacement cab corners, and would not weld them on, but glue them.
Approved by the three major auto manufacturers as well as most major truck manufacturers.
Advantages are no heat, no warpage and a solid seam between the two panels.
Fast too, the uranthane sets up and cures in as little as 10 minutes.
01-10-2004, 10:44 PM
I would worry about the long term reliabilty of the repair. I guess time will tell. I bet alot will have to do with the preperation of the two surfaces too.
big rig guy
01-10-2004, 10:55 PM
Just prepare the two surfaces with 24 grit grinding discs, apply a bead of adhesive join and clamp.
I do warranty repair work for Western Star trucks, I replace roofs on the cab, drill all the spot welds out, prepare the two surfaces, apply the adhesive and set the roof panel in place. At the front, around the windshield opening, it calls for the adhesive, but I plug weld the front.
The glue is so strong, that many styles of Western Star cabs with sleeper assemblies, the actual sleeper is glue to the cab?
Long term, yup, it might be one of those what were we thinking?????
01-10-2004, 10:58 PM
How is the weather in Toronto? I have relatives in Guelph. I used to spend my summers there on their farm.
big rig guy
01-10-2004, 11:05 PM
Been very cold the last couple of days Scott, warming up a little Sunday and I think were back to the cold again.
I live about 30 miles from Guelph.
We just got snow about a week ago, was nice and warm up till then.
01-10-2004, 11:24 PM
Were very cold here too about 7 below 0 right now. If I remember correctly I used to go near the Moffett/ Guelph line. I remember going past something called the Aberfoyle?
big rig guy
01-10-2004, 11:29 PM
Yes you would be right, I am actaully in a small town called Milton. Which is outside of Toronto about 20 miles.
01-10-2004, 11:31 PM
It's a small world. You got me going back in time..:)
01-10-2004, 11:42 PM
I don't know if the glue is the same people use for wood, but if it is there's no problem with long term realiability. The stuff is way stronger than the wood. Impervious to weather too. The set up time seems to be quit a bit shorter than the wood variety though.
01-11-2004, 12:17 AM
It's a little known fact, but the Herbivor over on HoreFart actually glues a lot of airplanes together. He was a riveter, but before that the Army taught him to shoe mules.
Starcars I know a little about, the neighbor runs one, and I get to fix it. I'd sure like to slap the sumbich who came up with the wet/dry air tank. The manufacturer can't build one to last 60k, and I can fix em to last 200k with gas welding. CalTran inspector eyeballed one I did for a few minutes, then asked the driver where he got the good air tank instead of the factory POS. Driver couldn't remember where that one came from.
01-11-2004, 08:28 AM
I have used the Panel Adhesive before with good results: John
01-11-2004, 04:14 PM
I used Goop brand to attach aluminum diamond plate to a square steel tube frame for my tonneau cover on my Ranger. It also has a couple of screws for good measure. :)
01-11-2004, 04:35 PM
Liquid Nails sells a version of their panel adhesive for metal, and I used soem last fall to attach the aluminum skin to the steel frames on the back doors of my utility truck. Naturally, I put some screws in for good measure, and so far, I've learned 2 things.
Those screws ain't comin out without breakin, and,
You gotta grow replacement skin to get that glue off yer hands.
About a year from now I'll have a better idea how the stuff holds up.
01-12-2004, 02:09 PM
I have used LORD FUSOR adhesive (http://www.fusor.com/). I went with the method of gluing and spot welding. I guess I kind of used it like seam sealer since you usually don't weld the entire seam on some parts. It is easy to work with, but pretty expensive.
01-13-2004, 03:33 PM
For those interested in the latest and greatest in adhesives for all types of industries, you might try this web page: http://www.adhesives.vantico.com/frontPage
These guys have stuff that will glue two sticks of butter together! Everything from aerospace to piping and so forth.
BTW, I'm not totally in love with adhesives and composites. My company has signed up for some Airbus 380 freighters, first one to be delivered in 2006. Airplanes this size used to be called aluminum overcasts, but this baby is a plastic and glue overcast. It will use a lot of an aluminum-fiberglass laminate called Glare. The problem is how to repair it! In the old days, when some fool ran a forklift or loader through an aluminum fuselage (ramp rash occurs all too frequently), I'd grab MIL-Handbook-5, crunch a few numbers on hoop tension stresses, do a quick fatigue analysis, then nail a 2024 patch on with three rows of MS20426 rivets all around and launch 'er. Can't do that with this beast. The rivets would crush the glass sandwich laminate. I'm still scratching my head on how to fix this mostly plastic airplane. Oh well, I'll probably be retired by then and let the 'top suits' that signed on for this monster worry about it.
A PICTURE IS WORTH A 1000 WORDS, but it uses up a
1000 times the memory.:confused:
01-13-2004, 05:36 PM
OP, seems I heard a bunch of bitchin from some Machinist Union types about Airbus selling planes with maintainence programs and extended warranty programs.
Maybe you just apply a temporary Tim Taylor duct tape patch and fly it back to Europe for repair under warranty.
01-13-2004, 09:21 PM
Actually we use 3M speed tape also called 600 mph tape for minor ding temporary repairs. It's dead soft aluminum with an adhesive back. We also have been known to use Bondo for minor dents, although we tell the FAA inspectors it's "Aerodynamic Smoothing Compound". Just don't ever put in in line with one of those wing or tail mounted Pratt & Whitney or GE vacuum cleaners, in case it comes loose. Does a nasty job on the fan blades. But anyway, very few FAA air carrier inspectors ever look at an airplane. They figure if the paperwork is right, it's gotta fly.
Speaking of duct tape, how the hell did the UL ever approve that stuff for attics? Guncotton burns slower! Just take a 6" strip, hold it vertically and light the lower end. You'll be lucky not to burn your fingers. I ripped it off all my attic ducts and replaced it with aircraft cargo pit tape which meets the burn requirements of FAR 25.863b.
01-13-2004, 09:45 PM
Do you really think UL does any real testing?
One of my buddys was the head ramp rat @ ROC for a few years, and after hearing his storys, I won't even go near one of those flyin contraptions.
If FAA guys ever did look at airplanes, the sky would be empty like it was on 9/12/01.
No, I don't know anything about the envelope in the drawer of the fuel desk marked DEC Spill Information either.
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