Help me decide

[313]

Hello, my first post, and I pretty much understand the question I've got is quite common place, but bare with me a little. I own some prehistoric MMA welder, decided I wanted something better and more versatile, so 've been googling and reading and watching videos on TIG and MIG/MAG welding for a few days now, and I simply can not decide.

I understand MIG/MAG is more practical, faster, easier and more forgiving, you just have to nail the settings and from there you pretty much just pull the trigger and voila, while TIG is more versatile (some say you can pretty much weld aluminum kitchen foil with it :laugh:), covers all from thin to thick, more precise, but also more difficult and less forgiving. I've read from various sources, the materials to be welded need to be ultra clean. I have successfully MMA welded visibly rusty and non-degreased pieces together without problems and the weld was just fine.... also, what I find concerning is that tungsten is supposed to stick out of the cup a little and you're supposed to hold it 1/8 to 1/4 inch from the material. Which freaks me out, because apparently if it touches the welding metal, tungsten electrode becomes contaminated and you have to grind it. And the grinding plate has to be used for sharpening of the electrode only or the electrode becomes contaminated again... This clean nuttery is pretty intimidating, I must say. Now I need someone to reassure me it's not that bad and why. :)

Basically, I'm leaning toward TIG because I got the notion it is more of a precision tool (better for me, since I won't mass produce anything), I will need it for all kinds of reparatures and construction of square-pipe frames, imagine stuff like fitness machines, but not that exactly.

By the way, if there is >2" thick aluminum block, that has been damaged and there is a match-tip sized hole/dent in it, which of the two welders would be better for the job - there must be no deformations of surrounding material whatsoever, just added aluminum (the excess of which I can then grind away) to fill the hole.

[weldbead]

wirefeed/mig is really designed to get a lot of welding done..production stuff. tig is the other end of the earth..high quality very pure beads. if you have gas welded, it is much like tig.tig is awesome....you will need to develop handskills to keep the torch close to the work and yet keep it away from the work and filler rod..i usually grind a few dozen pieces of tungsten, maybe that takes 10 minutes, and it lasts for hours, depending on how big a spas i am that day..
2" thick aluminum is gonna require so much power...

[yoshimitsuspeed]

If you plan on doing projects that involve a lot of linear feet and want to get it done quickly then MIG is the way to go.
If you have smaller projects where appearance is more important then TIG is the way to go.
The cleaning process isn't much more than anyone should be doing for MIG.
Sharpeining the tungston is also not a big deal.
I need to do it more often than weldbead he he but still can lay down a lot of material in between.
I have used roloc discs, flap disks, belt sanders, grinders and other things to sharpen my tungsten and had no trouble. Now if I was welding in a reactor or some other situation like that it would be a different story.
I don't want to belittle the importance of keeping clean and doing enough prep because it is important but it's also not something to be worried about.

[Boostinjdm]

Keep in mind that a TIG machine is a two for one deal. You can stick weld with it too. Comes in handy for those dirty, not so critical repairs.

[313]

i usually grind a few dozen pieces of tungsten, maybe that takes 10 minutes, and it lasts for hours, depending on how big a spas i am that day..
2" thick aluminum is gonna require so much power...

Whoa are you kidding... a few dozen?? If 20 pieces last for 2 hours, then you need a replacement every 6 minutes (provided you're experienced)???? Personally, I would find it pretty annoying to sharpen/replace tungsten every minute or so...

What I plan on using it for is also welding square tubes together, for example 1"x1" sized ones for a frame for a table with a steel top, which also gets welded to the frame. So I guess there is some footwork there, surely not something to actually put on a table and move it around... is this still the job for TIG?

[Grimm1]

I personally love tig, and readilly recomend it in most situations. But it sounds like you're doing alot of fit up work. If thats the case, AND you're working almost exclusivly in one material, and you have to move around the part alot I would suggest the mig. But if you plan on doing more odd jobs like that aluminum part, then the tig would be the way to go.

When you do the aluminum, preheat the part, it'll make life easier. And if you get the tig get a bottle of 75/25% helium/argon to do the aluminum, it'll make life easier too.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Whoa are you kidding... a few dozen?? If 20 pieces last for 2 hours, then you need a replacement every 6 minutes (provided you're experienced)???? Personally, I would find it pretty annoying to sharpen/replace tungsten every minute or so...

Lol I totally read his post wrong the first time. I was thinking one sharpening lasted hours.
It so depends on what you are trying to do. Think of it this way does the artist get annoyed when they have to dip their brush in fresh paint or clean it before colors and when they are done? No it's just part of the process.
Will you get annoyed when you need to clean your MIG tips? Well maybe on a bad day but generally it's just part of the process.
TIG is not fast but it makes up for it in structural and astetic quality and the fact that you could weld mild steel, aluminum, Stainless and copper back to back with little prep or changeover and do them all very nicely.

If the table was for my shop I would MIG it.
If it was for the house or something decorative I would TIG it.
You can make pretty nice looking MIG welds and could make a decorative table that looked good and fit the style of MIG welds so I wouldn't say it's not an option but you can get cleaner tighter looking welds with TIg.
It's all about what you are going for and what you are willing to spend.
The big thing is that a tig is going to be probably 2 to 3 times the price of a mig that could weld comparable thickness materials.
If I had to choose one
I'd have to Kill myself:(

If you can afford a cheap TIG (When I say cheap I mean more affordable name brand machine) then you should be able to scrape together enough for a cheap MIG and never have to worry;)



What I plan on using it for is also welding square tubes together, for example 1"x1" sized ones for a frame for a table with a steel top, which also gets welded to the frame. So I guess there is some footwork there, surely not something to actually put on a table and move it around... is this still the job for TIG?

[Boostinjdm]

Whoa are you kidding... a few dozen?? If 20 pieces last for 2 hours, then you need a replacement every 6 minutes (provided you're experienced)???? Personally, I would find it pretty annoying to sharpen/replace tungsten every minute or so...



Relax man. It all depends on the skill level and situation. I tigged for 4 hrs last night on the same tungsten and then had to sharpen it 3 times in 5 min.:laugh:

[tanglediver]

.... also, what I find concerning is that tungsten is supposed to stick out of the cup a little and you're supposed to hold it 1/8 to 1/4 inch from the material.
Closer to 1/16".
Which freaks me out, because apparently if it touches the welding metal, tungsten electrode becomes contaminated and you have to grind it. And the grinding plate has to be used for sharpening of the electrode only or the electrode becomes contaminated again... This clean nuttery is pretty intimidating, I must say.
Yep.
Now I need someone to reassure me it's not that bad and why.

Well...it is what it is. :cool: Just keep practicing. :rolleyes:

[313]

Thank you for your input!

I am forced to agree with yoshimitsuspeed, and will probably have to own both TIG and MIG, however, TIG comes first, as it's more important, so on that note, how does this one cut it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170271974100

It appears to be chinese knockoff, as I can get the same (different colors and print) locally, but for 690 EUR. :rolleyes: I'm willing to spend up to 900 EUR max, but I've seen units that appear quite normal - for over 3000 EUR, so I'm kind of confused, am I looking at a cupcake with cream, cherry and chocolate sparkle on top, I'd be happy with just a good cupcake since welding isn't my bread and butter.

If the one in the link is junk, what specs am I supposed to be looking at?

[JohnnyWelder]

That welder is ok. For a beginning welder i suggest the following welder


http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/dynasty_700/

Very Affordable in Euros.

[313]

^^^^Yeah, but it's blue. And I HATE blue color.

[Grimm1]

not every one has the budget you have johnnywelder. The dynasty 700 is a sweet machine with alot of options, but it isn't practical for hobbyists. As for the chinese knock offs and what stats you should be looking at, you'll want something that you can get fixed if it konks out on you, you'll want to look at customer support as much as what capabilities the machine has. If welding was your bread and butter I'd recomend the big brand names. But since it isn't you can probably go with an off brand, like everlast or some thing, with a replacement program since you can probably wait for the replacement to arrive if anything happens to go wrong with your machine. But some of those cheap chinese companies could be out of business 6 months from now, so I wouldn't go with one of them.

[313]

Well, I could afford more than 900EUR, but I would feel like buying a Dodge Ram because of weekly groceries shopping and Dynasty700 is like Antonov 124 instead of the Dodge. On the other hand, I just don't want to buy something that won't be enjoyable and reliable to work with.

[313]

Update:
Today I bought this TIG welder (middle column);

http://www.wtl.com.cn/english/products_d.asp?pro_id=106

I call it "my 200 amp torture machine with a perfect 90 degree learning curve". Apparently, it requires me to just not breathe while welding or else my hand(s) unintentionally move for about two millimeters, which equals disaster. Also, the settings are a mystery to me and I need better gloves. The ones I bought are labelled 'welder's gloves', but not really TIG welder's gloves I suppose. I can't even hold the gun straight, what with the disobedience (the wiggliness? turniness?) of the cable and pushing the start button is an art of itself.

[lincoln3]

i would go with the lincoln 255xt power mig i love mine but i prefer stick any day