what is the real deal

[arcdawg]

can anyone tell me the TRUTH about hobart and there connections to miller ? ie quality, parts, service ect....:realmad:

[Aaron]

Hobart and Miller are owned by the same company, and in many cases are manufactured in the same facility. Fact is, some of the equipment is the same inside and out, with the one exception being paint color.

While both brands were at one time considered industrial machines, ITW elected to market each brand to a different group. Miller is marketed towards manufacturing and industrial applications. The machines are tweaked in that direction. Hobart machines are marketed towards hobbiests and farmers, etc. While I don't know for certain, I would bet that Hobart machines are simply Miller machines massaged and rebadged. You should notice that Hobart's offerings get pretty thin past a certain level.

That said, each brand has it's own intended consumer, and therefore it's machines are tailored to that consumer. While overall quality and reliability are pretty much remarkable for both brands, often the Hobart machines lack some of the features of the Miller counterpart. In many cases they are far more alike than they are different, and even use the same consumables. As I mentioned before, a few of the machines are actually identical except for color.

This is why it is important to know what you want, and what you intend to use it for. Understanding what you are buying allows you to make an informed decision. It would be a mistake to assume that one color is inferior simply because it sells for less money, and is available at a farm supply store.

[Aaron]

By the way, I don't work for either company, or ITW for that matter. I am a hobbiest myself, who has owned five different machines by four different companies, all in the last three years or so. I recently purchased a MM251, and yes I think it is a great machine. But I really like my HH175 too, but it was just not large enough to suit my requirements. I compared the Ironman 250 to the MM251 for about 5 minutes before realizing which I wanted. That's why I say you need to know what you need, what you want, and what you plan to use it for BEFORE making the decision to buy a machine,

And as far as the parts and service, they are handled by the same department, in fact the same people. As I believe I have already made clear, in many cases they share the same components.

[joehobart]

I heard that hobart doesnt drop test thier machines at all. All the more reason to stick with blue.

[YJMike]

My intructor has the MM135 and I have the HH135. He said my HH welds just like his MM.

[arcdawg]

yj, take the two machines and put em side to side...there is a differance, size wise and then we can talk about intrenals !

do a search on the millers site and look under there 135 page

yes they are simmilar but NOT THE SAME,

BRIAN

[cutter]

Originally posted by arcdawg
yj, take the two machines and put em side to side...there is a differance, size wise and then we can talk about intrenals !

do a search on the millers site and look under there 135 page

yes they are simmilar but NOT THE SAME,

BRIAN

Brian, aren't you ever going to get through bitching about that?
They aren't supposed to be the same, for pete's sake. That's why one is called Miller and
the other is called Hobart & that's why they are marketed differently and cost different amounts.
If you want your Hobart to be a Miller then sell it and PAY FOR a Millermatic and try to get on with your life.

[arcdawg]

hey cutter do me a favor and dont respond to my threads, thanks

brian


oh and by the way i do understand the difference !

[cutter]

Originally posted by arcdawg
hey cutter do me a favor and dont respond to my threads, thanks

brian


oh and by the way i do understand the difference !

LOL, okay that's a deal. Wouldn't want you to have to suffer the pain of a little honesty every
now & then - you know - self esteem & all that. But if you really do understand the differences,
you could make a modest effort to act grown up about it.

bye bye. :D

cutter

[arcdawg]

cutter, the point of the matter is that over the past two weeks youve jumped on my posts and bashed me, i never had a BEEF with you till then,

i was simply stating the FACTS between the two machines, and on the other board i was making a observation,

and you had to chime in on both post, was is nessary for your input, no not really.

and as far as what i said about my machine 3 months ago is how i feel, last time i checked i was in america not north korea !

i guess that your just trying to be like the guys you look up to!

maybe you should take some of your own advise and act grown up about it !!!!

brian

[fla jim]

Arc dawg;
You missed the point of yjmikes post.
(Quote)
"My intructor has the MM135 and I have the HH135. He said my HH welds just like his MM".

All he said was that both machines weld the same, which I'm sure they do. They both have the same amp rating, 30 to 135, and 90 amps @ 20% duty cycle.
Here's the link of compairing them.
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/comparisons/millermatic_135.htmlrc
The quality is the hame on both machines. Here's a Quote from Our former hero Rock from the darkside

HI WAYNE........ THIS IS JUST AN INFO DEAL HERE........ BOTH MACHINES ARE MADE AT THE SAME MANUFACTUREING FACILITY....... ONLY FEET SEPERATEING THE LINES FROM ONE ANOTHER ABOUT 25' APART............ THE QUALITY IS OF EQUAL PROPORTION TO ONE ANOTHER......... THE STANDARDS (MANUFACTUREING AND ENGINEERING) ARE THE SAME. HEY I EVEN KNOW ALL THE ENGINEERING STAFF AND SUPPORT TECHNICANS.........AND SPENT 3 MONTHS THERE AS A TECHNICAL SUPERVISOR............. NOT CHASTISEING JUST INFORMATION... ONE IS DESIGNED MORE FOR THE HOME HOBBIEST AND THE OTHER MORE IN LINE WITH COMMERCIAL MARKET PLACE..... JUST CHEWING INTO DIFFERENT MARKETS..............I'M JUST FULL OF WALKING INFORMATION AREN'T I......................REGARDS.....ROCKSSCOTT@MILL ERWELDS.COM SSCOTT@MILLERWELDS.COM

For the average guy the HH is a better buy, and you can use the difference in cost to get a gas bottle, and some wire.

[arcdawg]

jim, that was a pretty indepth post.... i dont think that i was missing the point though,

i will agree with you about the hh135 being more suited for the home and the mm135 more fro a shop setting.

i posted this thread over 6 weeks ago and i got a reply today so i replied back.

i have been using my machine 2 0r three times a week now since the snow has melted and the weather is warmer and its a pretty good machine, but i can defenitly see its cost cutting internals being the weak link.
brian

[YJMike]

I havent used my Hobart to much. I took it to class with me one night and played with it the whole time and built a few things around the house also just playing getting used to my machine rather than the mig at school.

My instructor on the other hand has built 2 trailers with his and numerous other things. He uses his much more.

But, I did choose Hobart due to the cost. 369.00 compaired to nearly 500.00 is something I have to look at at this time in my life. also I probably wont be using it as much as my instructor does, at least right now anyway. Once I get on a roll with and become a "welder" instead of a hobbiest, I may look into upgrading, but this is my 2nd HH and I had no beef with the first so I may stick with them. we will have to see as time rolls on.

Im sure that the internals are different, I am a firm beleiver that you get what you pay for. but again I chose the Price over the extra quality, heck Im only an E-5 in the AF, 500 bucks is more than I pay for rent! LOL

[malibu101]

i have been using my machine 2 0r three times a week now since the snow has melted and the weather is warmer and its a pretty good machine, but i can defenitly see its cost cutting internals being the weak link.
As usual your posts are most informative :rolleyes:
Please describe what you see that is a weak link.
Thanks for all of your great and wonderful information.

[arcdawg]

hey malibu, go to millers site and do the 135 mig comparo,

brian

[fla jim]

Arcgawg;
You need to qualify you comments.
The difference between the two are one is tapped transformer, the other uses power transister voltage regulation. The voltage control dial bias's the gating on the power transisters.The amps and duty cycle are the same. the difference in weight, and size is the aluminum heatsinking for the voltage control power transisters.
Like Rock said the quality is equal.

[arcdawg]

jim i believe that you just awnsered what malibu wanted to know,

thanks brian

[fla jim]

Again you missed my point.
You said (quote)
"i have been using my machine 2 0r three times a week now since the snow has melted and the weather is warmer and its a pretty good machine, but i can defenitly see its cost cutting internals being the weak link".
Cost cutting internals? How can a difference in methods of control be a weak link?
In my experience there is no difference in performance between Miller and Hobart until you get up to the industrial machines such as the 210 class. Here is a significant difference between the MM210, and th Ironman 210.

[arcdawg]

man what is the big deal? its how i feel and IM NOT GOING TO CHANGE MY THOUGHTS...so if people feel its nessary to BEAT A DEAD HORSE fine but leave me out of it,
i knew it jim, i totally knew that once you had replied to this post you were GOING TO START WITH ME !!!! you couldnt resist could you ? (and i WASNT refering to the voltage control) !!!!!

[malibu101]

You've done the comparo, so, YOU tell me what don't you like.
WHAT is not the same?

You're very general replies with no backup info are getting old.

[malibu101]

Thanks JIM for the in-depth answer!
(and i WASNT refering to the voltage control)
So, what are you refering to?

[arcdawg]

Originally posted by malibu101
You've done the comparo, so, YOU tell me what don't you like.
WHAT is not the same?

You're very general replies with no backup info are getting old.

if you take a look at where you put the spool on, the hobart is just a little nut and some washers, the miller has a beefier spool retaining unit (for 2lb spool)

when using the hobart out in the feild it would be alot easier to loose that little wing nut and washer comapered to the millers more industrual set up

the sheet metal casing is also better designed/ constructed on the miller, it seems to me that the hobart is more slapped together compared to the miller,

and malibu if my post arnt informative enough for you DONT REPLY.....yes its as easy as that

brian

[fla jim]

I just have a problem with people stating something as a fact without having actual knowlege, or without doing doing the research to back up their statements. (Example)

"but i can definitly see its cost cutting internals being the weak link".

I would bet that if you're truthful, you have never looked inside of your machine at "the internals"
Malibu had asked you to explain what you felt the weak links were. You replied to check the miller sight, which by the way doesn't address "internals".
I did the research for you, and gave you a chance to justify your above statement. But instead of being mature and replying with your thoughts of why you felt the Hobert was weaker, based on facts. You went into a "RANT".:blob2:

Your posts are generally lacking in substance, and facts. When someone questions you on this you generally respond in a markedly immature and juvenile way
(Example)
Originally posted by arcdawg
"hey cutter do me a favor and dont respond to my threads, thanks"
I thought that you were maturing, as I read your posts, but I guess not. You seem to be reverting back to norm

:nono:

[arcdawg]

jim, once again you prove to me that ITS THE WORLD ACCORDING TO JIM.... no one else knows anything about anything.

i have used the two machines and the miller is better built,

i stand firm with that.

it really is a shame that you like putting people down, does this have to do with your own personal issues ? its usually the bully that has the most problems

and as far as my post go, i feel that i do conduct myself in a mature manner, until you pirate my post. my time on this board is really enjoyable.... when you dont throw your 2 cents in

and if you dont agree with me and want to bash me you dont have to respond to my posts, thats all i ment by that

the only reason why i reverted was cause you CHIMED IN..

[malibu101]

JIM - 100% agree with your above post.
By the reply I must think also that
"I would bet that if you're truthful, you have never looked inside of your machine at "the internals"
"
is true as well.

[cutter]

:o I'm not supposed to say anything. :D

[fla jim]

1. You reverted prior to my posting.
(Examples)
and malibu if my post arnt informative enough for you DONT REPLY.....yes its as easy as that

Originally posted by arcdawg
"hey cutter do me a favor and dont respond to my threads, thanks

2. Contrary to what you think, I don't know everything, But I do research my facts before I state them.
I to have used both machines. The sheetmetal metal is made for both machines on the same tooling, just a little different size and shape, same gage I agree with the expert ROCK

HI WAYNE........ THIS IS JUST AN INFO DEAL HERE........ BOTH MACHINES ARE MADE AT THE SAME MANUFACTUREING FACILITY....... ONLY FEET SEPERATEING THE LINES FROM ONE ANOTHER ABOUT 25' APART............ THE QUALITY IS OF EQUAL PROPORTION TO ONE ANOTHER......... THE STANDARDS (MANUFACTUREING AND ENGINEERING) ARE THE SAME. HEY I EVEN KNOW ALL THE ENGINEERING STAFF AND SUPPORT TECHNICANS.........AND SPENT 3 MONTHS THERE AS A TECHNICAL SUPERVISOR............. NOT CHASTISEING JUST INFORMATION... ONE IS DESIGNED MORE FOR THE HOME HOBBIEST AND THE OTHER MORE IN LINE WITH COMMERCIAL MARKET PLACE..... JUST CHEWING INTO DIFFERENT MARKETS..............I'M JUST FULL OF WALKING INFORMATION AREN'T I......................REGARDS.....ROCKSSCOTT@MILL ERWELDS.COM SSCOTT@MILLERWELDS.COM

I helped my friend buy a 175 mig. We did research and bought a HH175. The machine welds very smooth, every bit as good as th Millermatic.
I have helped a lot of people on this sight. I don't jump in to correct anyone unless I see incorrect, or dangerous info being posted.
3. And I never put you down, I just asked you to backup your statement with facts.
Until you started ranting about pirating posts, and being persecuted.

[Aaron]

Jim,

Your message got across to those you were speaking to, and they can see what's going on. I agree that we have a responsibility to correct misinformation spread by others. I see no problem with your posts, other than you're trying to convince a duck not to quack. I think Malubu got the point.

As my wife loves to say, "Just consider the source".

[fla jim]

Aaron Your right.
Sometimes I just try too hard, I guess thats from twenty years in the Navy.
The best thing to stop a duck from quacking is about one and a quarter oz's of #4 shot.

[morpheus]

I've tried my best not to post in this thread ... but .. I've just got too ...

http://www.weldingweb.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=3782

[Aaron]

LOL! :D

Jim, that's not the analogy I wanted to use, but it got my point across.

I love that pic, Jack. It's great!

[Dan]

Brian,

You need to check out a newer Hobart Handler. For a good year now or more, The Hobart Handlers and the MM 135/175 have had the exact same wire spool hub assembly on them. They also both contain the same quick change drive roll system. If you take the side cover off my MM 175 and HH 175 they look identical except for the circuit board since the MM has a variable voltage control. There are obviously some small difference between the two machines.

[rusted]

I have no opinion on this thread but I would like to buy arcdawg's HH135. So if you want to sell it let me know, I need a portable machine. My MM200 is mobile but not portable, and I've heard nothing but good about the small HH's arc quality.

Let me know dude!

[Migmaniac]

Well there is one difference that i know of between the HH180 and the millermatic 175 The wire feed assembly is plastic on the hobart, And cast aluminum on the MM175.
Just an observation.
Reguardless i simply love my HH180 it is one fine piece of equipment!!!!:drinkup: :drinkup:

[Migmaniac]

Just for comparison--Hobart airforce 400-miller spectrum 375-Auto arc 4500, Are the EXACT same machine.