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View Full Version : Plugging in a Miller Maxstar 150 STH



YFZ
12-12-2005, 11:26 PM
alrighty, so I go to plug this in for the first time and notice this plug isn't the average household plug. It looks like a standard 120V plug, but one of the flag prongs is rotated 90degrees. This welding unit can sense if 230V is used or 120V is used, but this plug won't fit into either wall socket. I would guess Home Depot should be able to help me, but thought I would run it by you guys first...maybe there's more to it

orphan68
12-12-2005, 11:33 PM
Take a look at the plug where the prongs are. Around this area it will tell you what voltage and amp rating it is for. Then, you can run down to the store and buy the plug for the receptacle you have at home.:)

YFZ
12-12-2005, 11:41 PM
I took a look at it...nothing is on saying so on the plug. I looked on the machine and it says 115 or 230V

then it says, install proper power cord for 230V

orphan68
12-12-2005, 11:48 PM
Can you snap a pic?

YFZ
12-13-2005, 12:13 AM
here it is...

Sandy
12-13-2005, 12:54 AM
What you are showing there is what is known as a NEMA 5-20P, a 20 amp 120 volt plug.

Yes you should be able to make an adapter for it easy enough. Just remember that it is rated for 20 amps so don't go plugging it into the very far end of some 14 awg, 15 amp household circuit. :)

And the standard disclaimer that your output will be limited when running off 120 volts so if at all possible stick with the 220. You can amke an adapter for that just as easily. Or even swap that cord out just as cheaply as the cost of adapters. Just a thought.

Here's a helper page.

http://www.quail.com/nema.cfm

orphan68
12-13-2005, 12:59 AM
Sure does. Thanks for the link. It'll come in handy.

YFZ
12-13-2005, 01:19 AM
ok, so I should get a standard 220 dryer cord/plug from the hardware store and open up the welder and hook up the wires eh?

chopper5
12-13-2005, 05:27 AM
i would say yes rigth now it's set up for 20 amp it will try to pull it on a standerd
15 amp breaker it will just keep poping the breaker ,oh and wen you get it up and running and find you need a longer coard make shure you get one that
can handle what ever amp's it running on or you could damage you welder
chuck

ctardi
12-13-2005, 10:06 AM
Just don't use it on the very top end of it's amperage range and it will be fine on an edison plug (standard varitety...)

YFZ
12-13-2005, 08:37 PM
I took a look at it...nothing is on saying so on the plug. I looked on the machine and it says 115 or 230V

then it says, install proper power cord for 230V

a bit more information...the manual says the amperage range is 14.2A for TIG & 21.6A for Stick.

Using some of the wire calculators online it says I should use 14-3 Ga wire for this. ...that is what came with the Miller unit @ about 6ft long, yet it says "Install proper power cord for 230V" :confused:

(It doesn't say what Ga wire is correct in the manual)

I don't mind going to some bigger wire, but I would have to drill out the Miller unit to do this. I'm thinking I should just put the 230V plug on it. Does this sound good?

YFZ
12-13-2005, 10:06 PM
well, I have a 230V plug...a 10-30P

on the directions on it says my 3 wires will be black, red and white

white being the blade in the middle.



the guy at the hardware store said my wires on the cord will be black, white and green.

green being the blade in the middle (ground)

seems odd to me...

ctardi
12-13-2005, 10:26 PM
well, I have a 230V plug...a 10-30P

on the directions on it says my 3 wires will be black, red and white

white being the blade in the middle.



the guy at the hardware store said my wires on the cord will be black, white and green.

green being the blade in the middle (ground)

seems odd to me...

Why are you using a 10-30? The standard for welders is a 6-50. I use a 6-50 on a 30a breaker. You want to use black, red, and green. Regardless, since you don't appear (I could be wrong) to know alot about this, get an electrician. There are plenty of ways to do this wrong. It is very easy to hook this up right in theory, and only get 110 volts out of it. :)

YFZ
12-13-2005, 10:31 PM
I'm trying to plug this into my dryer outlet in the garage...

Sandy
12-13-2005, 11:01 PM
well, I have a 230V plug...a 10-30P

on the directions on it says my 3 wires will be black, red and white

white being the blade in the middle.



the guy at the hardware store said my wires on the cord will be black, white and green.

green being the blade in the middle (ground)

seems odd to me...

Your dryer is a 10-30 R (receptacle) then?? :laugh:

I believe the colors stated by the Hardware guy are very likely correct. You will verify that okay?? :) Your machine is dual voltage input aka voltage sensing, right??

Take the black from the cord and put it to the 10-30p where it says 'black' (x or y post).

Take the white from the cord and put it to the 10-30p where it says 'red' (y or x).

Take the green from the cord and put it to the 10-30p where it says 'white' (w).

In short, to back check ourselves, the two hots go on the angle flat blades. The ground/neutral goes on the L blade. Side note, in cases where there is a round or U lug that is the ground.

Edit to add:
When you decide to make an extension cord for this I wouldn't use 14 awg.. 14 awg is just too sensitive to voltage drop when higher currents and distance are mixed. The average bulb doesn't care much about a little voltage drop but your machines circuitry will like you better if it is nice and stable.

YFZ
12-13-2005, 11:21 PM
Your dryer is a 10-30 R (receptacle) then?? :laugh:

I believe the colors stated by the Hardware guy are very likely correct. You will verify that okay?? :) Your machine is dual voltage input aka voltage sensing, right??

Take the black from the cord and put it to the 10-30p where it says 'black' (x or y post).

Take the white from the cord and put it to the 10-30p where it says 'red' (y or x).

Take the green from the cord and put it to the 10-30p where it says 'white' (w).

In short, to back check ourselves, the two hots go on the angle flat blades. The ground/neutral goes on the L blade. Side note, in cases where there is a round or U lug that is the ground.

yes, it senses both voltages. well, I cut the 5-20P off and the green, black and white is there. I'll hook it up...

Thank you :)

ctardi
12-14-2005, 01:05 AM
Having a welder running without a ground is very dangerous, a neutral is okay for somethings, but not this. Your drier is NOT a 10-30. Double check that number. Can you take a photo of the plug you have? And the drier plug?

YFZ
12-14-2005, 02:20 AM
Having a welder running without a ground is very dangerous, a neutral is okay for somethings, but not this. Your drier is NOT a 10-30. Double check that number. Can you take a photo of the plug you have? And the drier plug?

Whoa! who said anything about running without a ground :confused:

Why can't my dryer plug be a 10-30P? seems to fit well in the recepticle...
and Sandy's setup got my welder to burn some electrode an hour ago for the first time...

here's what the plug looks like:

ctardi
12-14-2005, 10:08 AM
Whoa! who said anything about running without a ground :confused:

Why can't my dryer plug be a 10-30P? seems to fit well in the recepticle...
and Sandy's setup got my welder to burn some electrode an hour ago for the first time...

here's what the plug looks like:

It is running without a ground if you arn't using the green wire. You want to use Black, Red, and Green for a welder, usually. In this case, it sounds like you actually need a four pronged plug. I'll ask the electrician at work for ya...

PS where are you? now that I look, some places use a 1030 or a 1050 for their dryers.

YFZ
12-14-2005, 04:04 PM
It is running without a ground if you arn't using the green wire.

Are you thinking I am not using a green wire?


In this case, it sounds like you actually need a four pronged plug. I'll ask the electrician at work for ya...

How would I apply a four pronged plug on this application?



You want to use Black, Red, and Green for a welder, usually.

Miller did not include a red wire in the cord of their welder.



PS where are you? now that I look, some places use a 1030 or a 1050 for their dryers.

I am in the USA (I am thinking we are in different countries)

ctardi
12-15-2005, 02:07 AM
I'm in canada, our codes are similar. This is a getting a bit confusing, they guy at work said it will be best to ask a miller rep to come out. :)

YFZ
12-15-2005, 02:20 AM
I'm in canada, our codes are similar. This is a getting a bit confusing

It sounds like our codes are different...

sorry you're confused, if you go back and reread this thread make a few sketches with colors of wires and follow Sandy's explanation it should be clear.


it will be best to ask a miller rep to come out. :)

oh you're killing me :laugh:

ctardi
12-15-2005, 04:33 PM
oh you're killing me :laugh:

And how am I killing you by passing on a message from someone else? I know when I had power troubles with my lincoln machine, they sent out a rep, he hooked it up correctly. Does Miller not have customer support?

ctardi
12-15-2005, 04:47 PM
Are you thinking I am not using a green wire?



How would I apply a four pronged plug on this application?




Miller did not include a red wire in the cord of their welder.



I am in the USA (I am thinking we are in different countries)

Green wire - You said that the hardware store guy said not to use it, I cautioned against it

You don't need a four pronged plug, you would use Black, Red, and Green.

The cord without a red wire is intended for 105-120 volt operation.

I put 6 guage wire on all my machines, with a NEMA 6-50 Plug and 6-50P recepticles. These are the general standard.


I'll explain a bit more about your power system. Coming into your house are three wires, the black, red, and white. At this point, the black and red supply the voltage, and are in the form of opposite sin waves. 60 times per second they alternate between being 120v+ and 120v-. The difference between these is 220v. Each of these is a different phase of power. Up to this point, the white wire is acting as a ground, and should have no voltage, but does have a potential to carry some. In the panel, the black and red go through a master breaker. The white is hooked up to a rail so that all the white (neutral) wires in the house can be joined up with it. On another rail is the Green (ground) wire, that comes from a metal stake driven into the...you guessed it, ground. The black and red wires are hooked up to a set of contacts, around 20-40 of them, alternating, so one contact is red, and the next is black, etc. This ensures that the power drawn is equally ballanced on each phase.

When you hook up a 110 volt outlet, the green wire goes to the green rail, white to white, and the black wire goes to a breaker, which is connected, usually snapped over the contact. A 220 volt, four pronged outlet is green to green, white to white, and black and red each to a different side of a double breaker that by code has to be linked so that if one tripps, the other gets turned off. These doubles are snapped over two sets of contacts, therefor using two phases with a difference of 220 volts.

Now, a three pronged 220v outlet uses the green ground, NOT the white one from the power company, and the black and red go to the breaker.

Hope this helps clear up a little bit....

YFZ
12-15-2005, 08:24 PM
And how am I killing you by passing on a message from someone else? I know when I had power troubles with my lincoln machine, they sent out a rep, he hooked it up correctly. Does Miller not have customer support?

the reason you crack me up is this is a case of the blind leading the blind. After I said Sandy gave me the information to get my welder running that night, you said you would go ask an electrician to set this thing up...

ctardi
12-15-2005, 08:31 PM
Yea, i missed sandy's post...

YFZ
12-15-2005, 08:32 PM
Green wire - You said that the hardware store guy said not to use it, I cautioned against it

You don't need a four pronged plug, you would use Black, Red, and Green.

The cord without a red wire is intended for 105-120 volt operation.

I put 6 guage wire on all my machines, with a NEMA 6-50 Plug and 6-50P recepticles. These are the general standard.


I'll explain a bit more about your power system. Coming into your house are three wires, the black, red, and white. At this point, the black and red supply the voltage, and are in the form of opposite sin waves. 60 times per second they alternate between being 120v+ and 120v-. The difference between these is 220v. Each of these is a different phase of power. Up to this point, the white wire is acting as a ground, and should have no voltage, but does have a potential to carry some. In the panel, the black and red go through a master breaker. The white is hooked up to a rail so that all the white (neutral) wires in the house can be joined up with it. On another rail is the Green (ground) wire, that comes from a metal stake driven into the...you guessed it, ground. The black and red wires are hooked up to a set of contacts, around 20-40 of them, alternating, so one contact is red, and the next is black, etc. This ensures that the power drawn is equally ballanced on each phase.

When you hook up a 110 volt outlet, the green wire goes to the green rail, white to white, and the black wire goes to a breaker, which is connected, usually snapped over the contact. A 220 volt, four pronged outlet is green to green, white to white, and black and red each to a different side of a double breaker that by code has to be linked so that if one tripps, the other gets turned off. These doubles are snapped over two sets of contacts, therefor using two phases with a difference of 220 volts.

Now, a three pronged 220v outlet uses the green ground, NOT the white one from the power company, and the black and red go to the breaker.

Hope this helps clear up a little bit....

When did the guy at the hardware store say to not use the green wire?

did you notice in one of your posts you said for me to use a 4 pronged plug and now you're saying a 3 pronged one?

I will look into your statement regarding "if a cord doesn't have a red wire in it, then it is intended for 120V operation"

are you thinking my system is triple phase or single phase?

ctardi
12-15-2005, 09:26 PM
did you notice in one of your posts you said for me to use a 4 pronged plug and now you're saying a 3 pronged one?

I will look into your statement regarding "if a cord doesn't have a red wire in it, then it is intended for 120V operation"

are you thinking my system is triple phase or single phase?

Yes, because dryers run off of a 4 pronged plug, and you said you were using a dryer plug, which you are not.

Not intended, meaning not that it isn't capeable. There is one situation I can immediatly think of where you would use the red wire for 110 v. This is for a duplex box having each plug on a different circut, which must have both breakers tied together. In effect, you are using a 220v circut with a distrubution block at the other end.

I'm thinking it's two phase, single phase power isn't provided by most electrical companies.

Sandy
12-15-2005, 10:00 PM
Modern dryer installations utilize 4 wires. This was not always so. Older installations were 3 wire and code at the time. There can be or are some minor issues with three wire 230 to things like ovens and dryers, but it's a rather long discussion. Nothing to really worry about tho. Upgrading of the codes doesn't negate everything in the past. If you or the lil woman gets tingled while leaning on the dryer and touching the washer, then you might think about it. In any event THE issue would be with the dryer operation, not a welder hook-up. Welder wants 3 wires, two hots and a ground.

YFZ has given his welder two hots and a neutral/pseudo ground. His white neutral/ground is tied to the same buss at the panel as the ground. No harm, no foul, it's a dedicated run.

YFZ
12-15-2005, 10:36 PM
Yes, because dryers run off of a 4 pronged plug, and you said you were using a dryer plug, which you are not.

If you back up you will notice we both understood some dryers use 10-30p plug. That has 3 prongs on that plug, there are 3 terminals in my wall, not 4. There are 3 wires coming from the dryer and 3 wires coming from the welder. My house was built in 1994 From what Sandy said, new homes are 4 prong...




I'm thinking it's two phase, single phase power isn't provided by most electrical companies.

I would bet your Canadian electrical company is different than the one I have here in the states.


here is my welder
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/maxstar_150_sth/

In my owners manual it specifically states this welder runs on single phase power 115V to 230V. This welder is made in the USA

ctardi
12-15-2005, 11:44 PM
If you back up you will notice we both understood some dryers use 10-30p plug. That has 3 prongs on that plug, there are 3 terminals in my wall, not 4. There are 3 wires coming from the dryer and 3 wires coming from the welder. My house was built in 1994 From what Sandy said, new homes are 4 prong...




I would bet your Canadian electrical company is different than the one I have here in the states.


here is my welder
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/maxstar_150_sth/

In my owners manual it specifically states this welder runs on single phase power 115V to 230V. This welder is made in the USA

You say tomata, I say tomato. I call it two phase, as there are two phases (otherwise you would only have 110volts max, most call it single.)

Let's just agree to disagree, and stop.

Does the welder work?

ctardi
12-15-2005, 11:44 PM
P.S. - If you are in a northern state, chances are at least some of your power comes from up here. ;)

YFZ
12-16-2005, 12:46 AM
You say tomata, I say tomato.

I don't know enough to have an opinion...I'm just looking at what miller has to say.




Does the welder work?

it still works

ctardi
12-16-2005, 12:49 AM
Good, that's all that really matters...

Snidley
12-16-2005, 10:44 AM
YFZ

Skipping past the wiring issues, How is it running?
Are you using it as a TIG or Stick?
Just curious as to the performance of this unit for future considerations.

YFZ
12-16-2005, 01:58 PM
YFZ

Skipping past the wiring issues, How is it running?
Are you using it as a TIG or Stick?
Just curious as to the performance of this unit for future considerations.

I am using it for TIG. I wish I could give you a review, but I am an unexperienced TIG welder. I purchased the machine due to the reviews seen on a few welding forums...and a few first hand accounts. The bought the STH model over the STL for its high freq start and heard pulse is the way to go on thinner materials.