Steel price

[Sticky]

Has anybody noticed a sharp price increase in steel this past week? (Like 20 - 40%) Is my steel place squeezing me?

[Franz]

Probably just steel suppliers taking advantage of the end of tariffs a few weeks back.
Must be they took a lesson from the oil companys.

[fla jim]

It's nation wide.:blob2: Including here in the Sunshine state:cool2:

[david_r]

Sticky,
Got a friend with a scrap yard. He's had a big smile on his face lately. Scrap steel prices are way up.

[fla jim]

Yep. The Chinese are gobbling it all up.
Probably to replace all that HF stuff we've been buying:laugh:

[Scott S]

My Local supplier told me a few months ago that the prices were going up 30% on new steel. He was not going to raise the price on the cut-offs and rusted steel.

[Bolt]

Yup, big time jump in steel.

Right when we soon need a bunch of I - beam, roofing metal, and used drill stem.

On the bright side, now would be a good time for me to haul off all the scrap thats accumulated over the past year, pipe drops, worn cutting edges, that stuff. Perhaps I will make an extra 5 bucks on it compared to a month or 2 ago. LOL.

[Main]

Probably just steel suppliers taking advantage of the end of tariffs a few weeks back.

Franz,

Could you elaborate a little more. I would like to have a good explanation for my customers as to why I'm charging more for the same product that they purchased six months ago. You see, I manufacture a type of anchor for the commercial fishing industry. It's nothing more than a big weight (220#) to hold fishing gear on the bottom. It started out small for orders of ten here and ten there but now I'm getting orders for eighty or more at a time. If I start raising my prices the fisherman are going to accuse me of sleeping in the same bed as the fish buyers that screw them on a daily basis. One thing about commercial fisherman, they're fiercely independent and very skeptical but they also have a very healthy respect for honesty. Thanks.

[Franz]

A couple years back, the Steel Workers Union prevailed on Pres Bush to place a tariff on all imported steel to enable US steelmakers to catch up on technology and keep steel production in the US.
In the 2+ years since, a couple more steel mills have closed, and another one is currently in the process of being sold to Russian investors. Not a single steel mill used the time to modernize.
With elections coming up, the UAW and automakers prevailed on Bush to remove the tarrif about a month ago, since automakers are the largest consumer of steel in this country.
At the current time, steel inventorys are probably low, and production is minimal in this country. Everyone with wholesale steel inventory sees this as an opportunity to raise the price of steel, and is doing so.
Even Ford's River Rouge steel plant is for sale, probably cause US tax laws and union contracts don't foster production. Bethleham Steel no longer exists in the Lehigh Valley, and with the minimal production that still exists, steel will become a seller's market.

In situations like you have, I recommend posting an old invoice and current invoice where the customer can see it, so the customer knows where the blame lies. In ongoing customer relations, you might even want to offer a very limited duration opportunity to pre buy your product at the current price. Of course, the customer will prepay an amount that will cover your cost of material and storage.
Customers tend to not get quite as pissed off when they are warned of impending price increases. You can often turn an increase in production cost to your advantage by telling customers what is coming.

[Main]

Thanks Franz. Greatly appreciated

[Jerry]

Yeh Damn prices have almost doubled on some items. Steel rep told me China is buying scrap metal and with the shipping season closed for the great lakes area prices will be higher. I say BS, if all you guys are paying more across the states. I thought that with the tariff being lifted prices would go down.

[rodburner]

price of oilfield tubing going up up up, their buyin all our stock faster than i can keep up with lately. We've already adjusted our prices up.

[boilerman]

thank god for the junk pile out back ...i'll weather this ok ooooppppsss had to come back for edit here ....i've been informed that it is a junque pile ...forgive me for my sin

[Junk]

Just got some quotes today. On 1-1/2" .120 DOM round tubing, was quoted $3.35/Ft. That's up a good $0.80 over 2 weeks ago.

On the other hand, the 1-3/4 .120 DOM round tubing is still at $2.05/ft. Same as it has been. I guess that's based on their current inventory. Sounds like I better hop now.

[Franz]

Bichin about steel prices started on the machinist boards about a week after the tariff was lifted.
There has also been some talk over on the blacksmith board about steel mills closing down in spite of the tariff. Between energy costs and environmental costs, there isn't going to be much steel even rolled in this country soon. It also looks like the steelworkers will get screwed out of their pensions.
The sad thing is how many people want to look at this situation short term, when the situation has been developing over the last 30 years.
Completion of the 3 gorges dam in China is going to kick heavy industry in the *** world wide. Even Mexico can't compete with cheap labor and cheap electricity.

[vipermanz]

steel production here has sharply increased in the last year, both coil and pipe manufacturing at uss's fairfield works where my dad works have seen jumps in production, and while tariffs were active, the pant has seen several modernizing updates take place, pretty much the whole plant is wired together with fiber optics lines, Maybe this is just regional but i will say that has been a vary good past 12 months for steel in alabama. Some of the steel made here has been exported to china oddely enough. most of whats made here is pipe for deep artic oil drilling and galvanized coils.

thanks

[dob]

even rebar prices are way up, company I do work for had a chance to buy 100 000 bars at 2.57 3 weeks ago. they decided not to because they still had 50 000 bars in the yard from last season- well they went to buy some yesterday and sure enough up to 4.57. two dollar increase in 3 weeks. OUCH.

[NoDak]

It was in the news this week, at least in North Dakota, that the largest , could have been the only, steel manufacturer in Canada is going under. They also have facilities in US. Forgot the name.

Can anyone from the Great White North confirm? Why would this be happening if steel prices are climbing?

Is it China or Japan that is buying scrap? Japan bought scrap from US prior to WWII in huge quantities. I don't trust either country!

[Crithpy_Critter]

Chi-Coms and Japs are buying scrap so they can smelt it and then sell it back to the US for below what we can make it for.

It's called free trade...you may have heard about it.

[Franz]

Subject: U.S. Management Philosophy

A Japanese company and an American company decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River.

Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day the Japanese won by a mile. Afterward, the American team became very discouraged and morally depressed.

The American management decided the reason for the crushing defeat had to be found. A Management Team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and one person rowing. So American management hired a consulting company and paid them an incredible amount of money. They advised that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing. To prevent losing to the Japanese again next year, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the Rowing Team Quality First Program, with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rower. Even new paddles and medical benefit incentives were promised for a winner. We must give the rower the empowerment and enrichments through this quality program.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles. Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and cancelled all capital investments for new equipment.

The money saved was distributed to the senior executives as bonuses.


__________________

[Scott S]

That just about sums it up! :D Sad but true.

[NoDak]

I looked it up it's ALCAN that is talking about bankruptcy. Blaming it on employee pensions and health benefits keeping them from being competitive.

Want to read a little bit of history as it pertains to scrap metal?

www.ilwu19.com/history/1930.htm

[Franz]

Only in America...............

When NASA first started sending up astronauts, they quickly discovered that ball point pens would not work in zero gravity.
To combat this problem, NASA scientists spent a decade and $12 billion developing a pen that writes in zero gravity, upside down, on almost any surface including glass and at temperatures
ranging from below freezing to over 300 Degrees.
The Russians used a pencil.

Enjoy paying your taxes--they're due again soon.

[1911Man]

I just hope no one else has more good news to make me feel better! Despite its' warts the US of A is still the best place to be , at least on this rock.

[joehobart]

as an aside, the real story about those NASA pens. http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp Its a great story, too bad its not exactly true. We actually only spent 1200$ for those super-pens.

Kind of interesting point about pensions driving the 'old' US companies out of buisiness. That whole pre-401k generation sucked the life out of hundreds of companies via pensions. Lots of interesting legislation on the hill about it for 04-05 session. Scary stuff if you've been counting on it your whole life, and theres just no money to pay it.

Has anyone seen any projections on when prices will stabilize again?

[NoDak]

1911man:

You are right this is the best place to be on the rock and because of that everyone wants a piece of it, or they hate us for it.

What (it) refers to is money! This is the richest country in the world and our entire economy depends on the population of the United States of America spending money. We have a consumption based economy that, FUELS THE WORLD!

In some ways that makes us our own worst enemy. We all want our money to stretch as far as it can. So we buy for the most part, what we perceive as the, best value, we can find for our hard earned dollars.

Harbor Freight band saws are a good example. Almost everyone would rather have an Ellis band saw, but we perceive Harbor Freight as a better value not because of quality of product but because of price. It is possible to purchase almost all of your shop equipment at Harbor Freight for what one Ellis bandsaw would cost, around $3,000.00.

That is how China gets a piece of our rock. They buy our scrap metal smelt it down, make knock off products, sell them back to us. If we don't buy them they will still buy our scrap metal, smelt it down and make bombs out of it and try and take the rock. Just like Japan did prior to WWII.

The manufacturing jobs that leave the United States are a direct result of our consumption based economy and comfortable lifestyle.

Our government makes trade deals to put third world economies to work so they won't just set around hating the United States until they decide to go to war with us because we have everything.

There is no way to stop it, and no way to not participate. It (money) is the route of all evil, and I would like as much of it as possible so I can buy as much stuff ( as George Carlin says) as I possibly can!!! It is the American way. :D

[NoDak]

1911man:

You are right this is the best place to be on the rock and because of that everyone wants a piece of it, or they hate us for it.

What (it) refers to is money! This is the richest country in the world and our entire economy depends on the population of the United States of America spending money. We have a consumption based economy that, FUELS THE WORLD!

In some ways that makes us our own worst enemy. We all want our money to stretch as far as it can. So we buy for the most part, what we perceive as the, best value, we can find for our hard earned dollars.

Harbor Freight band saws are a good example. Almost everyone would rather have an Ellis band saw, but we perceive Harbor Freight as a better value not because of quality of product but because of price. It is possible to purchase almost all of your shop equipment at Harbor Freight for what one Ellis bandsaw would cost, around $3,000.00.

That is how China gets a piece of our rock. They buy our scrap metal smelt it down, make knock off products, sell them back to us. If we don't buy them they will still buy our scrap metal, smelt it down and make bombs out of it and try and take the rock. Just like Japan did prior to WWII.

The manufacturing jobs that leave the United States are a direct result of our consumption based economy and comfortable lifestyle.

Our government makes trade deals to put third world economies to work so they won't just set around hating the United States until they decide to go to war with us because we have everything.

There is no way to stop it, and no way to not participate. It (money) is the route of all evil, and I would like as much of it as possible so I can buy as much stuff ( as George Carlin says) as I possibly can!!! It is the American way. :D P.S. Bought 4/1/2" angle grinder this week at Sears made in Chiner. Son's Bitches! None of this means I have to like it! :angry:

[Franz]

"Kind of interesting point about pensions driving the 'old' US companies out of buisiness. That whole pre-401k generation sucked the life out of hundreds of companies via pensions."
Well, if you been ridin the rock as long as I have, you also remember back in the 60s when a lot of the private pension plans collapsed because pension administrators used the pension funds to prop up sick companys. Hickock, a major leather manufacturer, in Rochester was a famous example, and even after Tandy bought the company for a dime on the dollar, the pensioners got screwed.
After that, the GOOBURMUNT stepped in, and put all kinds of rules on pension administration.
Now, everybody has a 401k, and still doesn't understand this latest generation of the 1960s Canadian System is falable. Lots of poorly informed people buy annuitys, and don't have a clue they need to ask who is reinsuring the company issuing the annuity. About 15 years back a big west coast insurer crapped out leaving all their policy holders with empty hands.
Just a couple weeks back the government announced the US Pension Guarantee fund is seriously underfunded, and if a few more private pensions collapse, the fund will go bankrupt. Gee, BIG surprize, didn't we just pay off the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation with tax dopllars cause Jimmy Carter's pal Burt Lance screwed the pooch when it came to the US banking system.
The rich elitist bastards will always get to screw the working man, because their buddys and classmates from school protect them. If you've ever had the pleasure of dealing with IRS, you quickly learn IRS has a mechanism to get their money come hell or high water. There is nothing comparable to the joy of finding out the guy who paid you for your work also owed IRS, and now, you get to give them the money you collected, because they can and will take it. So, why the hell do people like the president of Enron get to keep all the money they stold? Cause they paid off Senators and Congressmen, who make the law giving them the right to screw everybody but IRS.
Unless and until the voting population figures out any politician who has been in office 2 terms needs to get replaced, the little guy doesn't stand a chance. Are the politicians worried? Hell no.
They know Jefferson was right when he talked about an informed intelligent voter, and they also know they have eliminated the possibility of a sufficient number of intelligent voters.

[echo8287]

Franz that US Management Philosophy was right on the mark,and very funny too. There is a small Alcan Plant up the street and I know a couple of people that work there. If you had to work there you'd need a pension and some pretty good health benefits too, as it is not that good of a work enviornment. Hey, No Dak everyone doesn't buy a HF bandsaw. I've got an Ellis 1200 that I found as a demo for 1650.00. It works great and I love the miter function as I don't have a bender yet. I had always rather buy American if possible but it seems less and less things are made here as our jobs are shifted overseas and to Mexico. I was looking at some new bedroom furniture at a Haverity's and a Rhodes furniture store today.(my wife made me go). She was inspecting the drawers for dovetailing and looked on the back of a nightstand where LO & BEHOLD there was a "Made in China" sticker on the back. Then we started checking all the furniture from then on for the sticker. Alot of it was Made in China. Damn is everything made overseas now!!!! David

[NoDak]

echo8287:

I said, almost everyone would like to have an Ellis bandsaw! That was a good price on the one you got. I priced one this week for $3000.00 but I forgot the model number. The store had Jet or Ellis. I was just using Harbor Frieght as an example of how we like to get a good deal.

It is amazing how much stuff is manufactured in China. We purchased a desk last year. The sales lady made a big deal out of made in America. When we got it home, it had made in China stamped all over it! The more we buy the more they will make!

[Franz]

A couple years back, before BahHumbugh, I ventured into the Combat Zone lookin for some things for the wife. Bein an Old Fart, I figured I'd check that famous French designer store, J C Pannay. I'd done my research, checked labels for sizes and all before the trip, so I started pickin things out she'd look good in.
Seemed like every damn thing I looked at had tiny print labels that I needed a magnifier to read made in Beleze, China, Russia, Guatamala and VietFNam. Well, anything made in VietFNam went right where it belonged, on the floor. One of the clerks walked by and did the LOOK, so I told her dink crap goes where it belongs, and if you want to import sh!t and put American sounding names on it I'll be happy to piss on it for you. She walked off figurin it was the safe thing to do.
After an hour in that damn store I hadn't found a single garment made in the US. It wasn't a bit better in any other stores either. Even Levis are made in Mexico now.
Nice friggin situation when Whorehouse Willie can make rat bastards rich by givin them the right to sell their crap in the US, along with frozen noodles and dink beer.
Chinese manufacturing is really going to take off now as the first phase of the 3 gorges dam is producing electricity. Now they have power and can bring in the population from rural areas and convert them to cheap factory labor.

[JustLooking]

Notice it is also the U.S. Steel Firms and not just the Steelworkers Union. The Steelworkers Unions are trying to help the U.S. Manufacturers help them to keep working. The Steelworkers are also taking cuts in pay increases while the Corporate CEOs are popping golden parachutes. The Steelworkers Unions are not the ones making the decisions for the Company on Upgrading their equipment. That is the job of management and the Higher Up CEOs that get Millions of Dollars a year for a pay check plus many other incentatives to promote improvements for modernizing.

U.S. steel firms and steelworkers have asked for a 40 percent across-the-board tariff for four years on a broad range of steel imports. They blame low-priced imports for 31 bankruptcies since 1997 and are seeking temporary "safeguard" protection under "Section 201" of U.S. trade law.

Administration and congressional sources said the president would impose tariffs of up to 30 percent on many categories of imported steel from Japan, South Korea, Brazil, Russia and Ukraine. Canada and Mexico, partners with the United States in the North American Free Trade Agreement, and several developing nations would be exempt from the tariffs, the sources said. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/640284/posts


China is probably one of the Developing Nations. For some reason whatever it is the USA is allied with buying from China. Wonder what it is?

The truth is there are many reasons why the U.S. steel industry cannot compete with foreign steel makers. First among these is that the industry IS unionized. The primary effect of unions is to bar workers who would accept lower wages from entering the work force. We have millions of immigrants in the U.S. who would be happy to take steel jobs at lower wages, but steel workers don't want to be forced to seek new jobs in industries where the U.S. is competitive - like computers.

A second major reason why U.S. steel makers can't compete in the global market are environmental regulations. U.S. producers face cost-raising requirements like reducing emmissions that foreign producers don't have to comply with.

The environmental regulations make steel's argument that it is essential to national security bunk. For example, for years, the U.S. has not been able to produce anchor chain for its ships, not because it didn't have the technology, but because environmental regulations make it illegal to use the forging processes that must be used to make the chain. The U.S. must depend on foreign producers that don't face the same enviironmental regulations for anchor chain.
http://www.citizensoldier.org/steeltarrifs.html

When was the last time this Moron in the quoted link above checked where Computers are Made? The Computer Tech Support is being farmed out to off shore facilities quicker then you can say IBM. Since we mentioned IBM let's talk about some old words known as "IBM CLONE."

There are a lot of people that think like this individual but if you dig into their back yard for earning a living then they would be seriously offended and protective. How many of you would like to work for lower wages or allow an Illegal Alien to work your job? How would you feed your family?

http://www.uswa.org/uswa/program/content/916.php

http://www.uswa.org/uswa/program/content/239.php

http://www.uswa.org/uswa/program/content/937.php

http://www.uswa.org/uswa/program/content/940.php

http://www.uswa.org/uswa/program/content/943.php

http://www.uswa.org/uswa/program/content/927.php

I think the price hikes in steel are BS but check who the people are setting those prices - probably not the U.S. Steelworkers. It is probably the CEOs priming up before the Golden Parachute pops open. That has become the American Way.

We won't talk about the Companies leaving that had Grand Father Clauses for meeting U.S. Govt EPA & other requirements. Who wants to live in a polluted area or work around it? Once these Companies pull out to go over seas do they clean up the pollution left behind? The answer is usually, No. The tax payers pick up the tab and the out of work people left behind are also added burdens.

Why aren't the prices of imported goods going down if moving them is such a cost saver? Where are the record profits going after the move to foreign soil?

The Cost of Unfair Trade

Flawed trade policies cost American jobs, put downward pressure on U.S. wages and working conditions, erode the ability of governments to protect public health and the environment and have contributed to political and economic instability and growing inequality in the rest of the world.

Instead of bringing prosperity to workers in developed and less developed countries, as its proponents promised, globalization has spawned a race to the bottom in which companies seek out the cheapest labor, weakest environmental laws and fewest workers' rights. As a result, millions of people in developing and developed nations labor in sweatshop conditions, working long hours in unsafe and unhealthy conditions for little pay.

The rules of the global economy are set by the World Trade Organization, a secretive group of top government leaders, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, which emphasize corporate rights over human rights.
http://www.uswa.org/uswa/program/content/173.php


Who are these people?

World Trade Organization, a secretive group of top government leaders, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund.

http://www.betterworldlinks.org/book70k.htm

[JustLooking]

Hey Franz didn't you see the Special on TV the Vietnam People are Our Friends now. There was a broadcast on TV showing a U.S. Navy Warship on shore leave for the crew members. The U.S. Navy Personnel were touring the tunnels and firing AK47's and all that fun stuff. They are our friend and have made their version of Disney Land.

[JustLooking]

"Unless the WTO is fundamentally changed to include core labor rights and environmental accords, workers must call on their government to take whatever steps are necessary to replace it with a set of global trading rules that work for working families.

The WTO is more than a set of rules; it is a business driven movement toward unrestrained corporate trade. It began with GATT, accelerated through NAFTA, and has gained world dominance under the WTO.

Through the WTO, multinational executives, Wall Street financiers, and their government surrogates have created a rules-based global trading regimen. The problem is, the rules they have created are based on freeing these global behemoths to exploit workers and degrade the environment.

During the past 20 years of the most rapid expansion ever in global trade, workers have been shamelessly exploited. Freed by the WTO from the limited obligations placed on them by our labor and environmental laws, multinational corporations now move operations across borders with impunity in search of the cheapest labor available. NAFTA is a prime example of the movement's tactics.

In practice, NAFTA is used as a weapon by multinational corporations to extract wage and benefit concessions, bolstered constantly by the threat of moving all or part of their operations to Mexico, where any attempt to organize unions or rectify injustices routinely result in firing, if not arrest.

When local governments in Mexico threatened to levy taxes on the companies operating in the maquilas, companies stated publicly that they would move to China, where labor is even cheaper, where "there is no turnover, and the government takes care of everything else;" where the disgrace of child labor, prison labor, military-owned factories, and the murder of dissenting young idealists are already a tragic fact of life.

These tactics pit worker against worker from one country to the next in a perpetual cycle of beggar thy neighbor. In numerous cases, production is moved out even after sizeable concessions have been extracted.

Since 1980, the U.S. manufacturing's share of total private sector employment has plummeted by 60%! Some 2.5 million workers have had to find other jobs, usually at much lower pay than the family-supportive wages they enjoyed in manufacturing. For example, the median hourly wages for male high school graduates dropped 22% from 1973 to 1997. And whole communities have been destroyed, both economically and socially.

Today, the devastation continues, much less obviously than the collapse of steel mill towns and cities during the Eighties - all the more insidious by virtue of being nearly invisible. Over the past 16 months, more than 500,000 U.S. manufacturing jobs have been lost, and the number is expected to rise as high as 700,000 by year's end.

No such misfortune is befalling the architects of unrestrained corporate trade. Pay for the average Chief Executive Officer in 1980 was 42 times the average pay for his or her workers. Today it is 419 times as great!"

http://www.fixitornixit.com/uswaposition.htm


The Powers that be are very good at deception they keep people like us pointing our fingers at each other instead of at them.

[caper]

We have or I should say used to have a steel plant across the harbour here.The powers that be deemed it unprofitable several years back and shut it down.Want to guess what is happening now?It is being dismantled and sent to china on ships for scrap steel. We have been unable to sell scrap here for several years,I must have about three tractor trailer loads stored up in the field,now the price has gone up and the dealers are buying again but mine has about three feet of snow on it.I figure that when the snow melts they'll probably stop buying again.