Probs with Hypotherm Max 30

[on4now4]

it is a max 30 with a date of 1993 on it.

here is the thread about it. any help would be awesome

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?p=450268&posted=1#post450268

[on4now4]

alright so new heavy gauge extension cord and still no diffrance. but let me clarify what it is doing so that there is no confussion.

in the basement everything worked perfect.

i moved it to the garage on a small extension cord and it would work but only for a second then it would shut off and make a buzzzzing sound.

then i moved some things just checked connections and stuff, it began not even working for that one second and no longer making a buzzzing sound now it just makes a high pitched eeeeee sound and i believe will spark if i tough the tip to metal. but no plasma...

now i got a bigger extension cord and it made no difference it is still just making the eeeee sound.

now i would like to mention something that has been confusing me i can make it shoot plasma anywere i can burn through metal with no prob at all (when it was working) without having to even connect the ground to anything? i could shoot solid plasma in the open air and never had to strike it on anything... is that normal?

also to answer some questions of yours. the consumables are brand new. never used once and it is a hypotherm max30

this pretty much sums it up

[ccawgc]

There aren't manuals for a max 30 on hypertherm's web site. There is a max 20 and then a max 40. I will have to check an old book to see if there is a manual.
Your picture is of a contactor. The magnet tells me it is for DC power. Could be a pilot arc or main contactor. If your plasma has a pilot arc, it will fire in the air and will burn through thin sheet metal with out the ground connected. But it will not cut well this way
The tip is at ground potential, the electrode is at cut potential. A spark is made inside the tip, this splits the air into plasma and it is pushed out through the hole. sense it has a negative charge and the ground clip has a positive charge the plasma is attracted to the metal to be cut. There is more going on so this is a simplified explanation.
Does your torch have a moving electrode.? If so your cap may be on to tight back it off 1/4 turn and try to fire it. If the cap is on to tight it will jam the electrode and keep the torch shorted, And it will not fire. Some times the power supplies complain with a squeal.
Check back tomorrow night.

[on4now4]

There aren't manuals for a max 30 on hypertherm's web site. There is a max 20 and then a max 40. I will have to check an old book to see if there is a manual.
Your picture is of a contactor. The magnet tells me it is for DC power. Could be a pilot arc or main contactor. If your plasma has a pilot arc, it will fire in the air and will burn through thin sheet metal with out the ground connected. But it will not cut well this way
The tip is at ground potential, the electrode is at cut potential. A spark is made inside the tip, this splits the air into plasma and it is pushed out through the hole. sense it has a negative charge and the ground clip has a positive charge the plasma is attracted to the metal to be cut. There is more going on so this is a simplified explanation.
Does your torch have a moving electrode.? If so your cap may be on to tight back it off 1/4 turn and try to fire it. If the cap is on to tight it will jam the electrode and keep the torch shorted, And it will not fire. Some times the power supplies complain with a squeal.
Check back tomorrow night.

so i was wrong and it is indeed a max 20

[ccawgc]

Go to hypertherm.com. You can down load a manual with a diagram in it.
Leave the top search box open. Use the middles ones to select max 20 and manuals.
Then hit the search button.
This plasma is what we call a chopper. To Test you must first find and test the soft start resistor on the rear panel. If it is blown You will have to replace both the resistor and the relay that bypasses it. (3CR). cooling fan must run. Next find the small relay in a plastic box and see if it moves with and trigger pull. The large one with the magnet should pull in also.
The small one turns the chopper on. The large one applies power to the torch. Gas valve should open just after both relays close. We have to have power in the torch before the gas is turned on in order to make a spark and get the plasma working. Look the pc board over real close. looking for any thing burnt. The pc board is part of the chopper assembly and is not available separately. The large capacitor should have around 244 vdc on it.
Other than damaged torches. The common problems are the soft start resistor and relay. Also the chopper on relay waring out. appears to move but does not make contact.
Hypertherm has just announced that these plasma's are at end of life. Which means they are no longer going to stock parts for them. May be available by special order, if it is still made.

[jimcolt]

It is always a good idea as well to contact Hypertherm technical service....they are free and will be more than happy to trouble shoot your system over the phone. Have the model number and serial number fro the data tag when you call.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

Technical Service
technical.service@hypertherm.com
800-643-9878 Tel - Toll Free in USA
and Canada

[on4now4]

Go to hypertherm.com. You can down load a manual with a diagram in it.
Leave the top search box open. Use the middles ones to select max 20 and manuals.
Then hit the search button.
This plasma is what we call a chopper. To Test you must first find and test the soft start resistor on the rear panel. If it is blown You will have to replace both the resistor and the relay that bypasses it. (3CR). cooling fan must run. Next find the small relay in a plastic box and see if it moves with and trigger pull. The large one with the magnet should pull in also.
The small one turns the chopper on. The large one applies power to the torch. Gas valve should open just after both relays close. We have to have power in the torch before the gas is turned on in order to make a spark and get the plasma working. Look the pc board over real close. looking for any thing burnt. The pc board is part of the chopper assembly and is not available separately. The large capacitor should have around 244 vdc on it.
Other than damaged torches. The common problems are the soft start resistor and relay. Also the chopper on relay waring out. appears to move but does not make contact.
Hypertherm has just announced that these plasma's are at end of life. Which means they are no longer going to stock parts for them. May be available by special order, if it is still made.

the cooling fan runs, the small relay closes when you turn the machine on. the big one closes when you pull the trigger. i talked to jake at hypertherm and he did inform me that the parts for these were basically all gone...

he took me through all the troubleshooting and it did not do a whole lot of good... basically what we determined is that we think something in the torch is shorting out... but we could not figure out what it was...

[ccawgc]

Take all the consumables out of the torch, Disconnect the red torch wire inside the case.
Use an ohm meter and measure between the red wire and the white wires. see if you have a open or a short. Open is good. The red wire is connected to the outer threads of the torch. The white is down inside. See if they are connected. If you have a short. take the handle off the torch. make sure the white wires have not shorted to the torch body. Also check the cord for cuts and punctures That might be causing a short. You can check the action of the torch head by using a ohm meter. with the consumables in place and red wire disconnected. Test for short between red to white wires. Turn on gas test and see if it changes to open.
Also check the trigger and the cap switch wires.( blue and orange) make sure they are not shorted to the red or white wires.
Inside the torch handle the red wire connects to the body and the white wires to the piston.
Because the white wires are moving with the piston, they some times short out to the red wire connection. Just repair and add insulation. When you power these units with the cover off. Make sure you stay clear of the high voltage circuits. Use eye protection in case some thing explodes. Send me a pm if you want more help.

[jimcolt]

Thanks for helping out CCAWG.....all good advice. I suspect something simple in the torch.....could also just be low air pressure or a sticking plunger in the torch.....if the pluger is stuck, or inadequate air pressure is getting to the torch to move the plunger....then the torch is in a dead short mode, and the power supply will squeal!

Could just be worn out....or aftermarket (non Hypertherm) consumables.......a bad swirl ring, a bad retaining cap....etc.

Jim Hypertherm.

[ccawgc]

PM sent twice

[on4now4]

PM replyed

[on4now4]

well, we made some progress. it does shoot some plasma now... last night we figured out that the clamp that held the torch cord onto the machine was to tight and this was causing it to not get enough air to separate the consumables causing a direct short in the torch. now last night it seemed to work just fine. it fired and worked great now i went to use it today...

it will fire plasma for a split second and than shut off as if it has run out of air... i know it is not running out of air.

[ccawgc]

Now your air pressure made be to high or cap to tight.
Also the max 20 has a very short pilot arc timer
Adjust air pressure to 60 psi air flowing. Remember should blow the consumables open.
Place torch on metal, should fire and cut and keep cutting

[on4now4]

air psi is good set to 60

i have tried backing the cap off quite a bit

Pilot arc timer?

[on4now4]

Ok, just to add to this and cross some things off the list of possibilities. i took the torch apart and fired it, i could see the piston move out and not go back in until i release the trigger. it stops firing plasma even tho the piston is out, this indicates that there is enough air

[jimcolt]

If you have low input line voltage, or are running it off an extension cord that is smaller than 12 gauge, or longer than 50 feet....you will have the symptoms your describe.

Any chance you can take some pics of the power supply and the torch so we can identify it? There is no such thing as a "Max30".

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[DSW]

Jim see post #4

so i was wrong and it is indeed a max 20

[jimcolt]

OK...sorry.....so it is a Powermax20. Low input line voltage, inadequate circuit, extension cord too long, conductors in cord to small.

When the Max20 was a current product Hypertherm actually sold extension cords that were 50' long and 12 gauge.....it was the miracl cure for units that would misfire!

Jim

[on4now4]

there is no extension cord, it is not an issue with house wiring, circuits and so on...

this is the same exact setup that it used to work perfectly in.