A couple little changes at WeldingWeb. Signing out.

[Rojodiablo]

Okay, first of all: After dealing with the many issues of Everlast Welding products, and their tactics, the management has decided that the simplest way to solve the problem is to allow Everlast to moderate their own forum. The difference will be that they will not have the power to moderate any forums outside of the Everlast forum. Should you have an issue with an Everlast welder, you can post it out of their forum, and your post will not be edited by Everlast, until the new general forum mods move your thread into the Everlast forum. Once your thread is there, expect that just as in the past, it will be gutted like a fish, or deleted.

When we eliminated Everlast as moderators for repeated and habitual altering and deleting of posts, it was agreed that they would not be allowed to do any moderating in the future.
Well, that evidently changed. NO, the moderation team had no input on the situation; the only talking was between Everlast's wallet, and Penton publishing. Really, I can't blame them. What with equipment like Lincoln and Miller, Hypertherm and Esab- the choice is simple and who wouldn't want to cuddle up to a company who was wreaking mad havoc on your site only a year ago. I mean, I'm pretty certain that when you have an issue with a Miller welder, the company owner threatens you when you want your 211 or Dynasty fixed.
Okay, maybe I am wrong about that.:laugh:
Myself (Rojodiablo), ZTFab, and Zapster have been REMOVED as moderators. We were not given notice of this, nor were we given any reason.
After 2 years of battling spam, lies, threats, deleted posts, and altered posts to try and protect the membership of WeldingWeb.com, I was not even told that ANY of this would happen.
If you look to the quality and content of exactly what this will mean for Weldingweb, then you know exactly what has happened here. This is simply sad.
But for myself, and ZTFab, and Zapster? I can tell you; it surely does not mean the end of welding for us, nor welding forums that host and hold our content and projects. It simply means that what I told the management was true. The weldors on this site in large part decided to stay here because I was willing to work to keep the site free from the nonsense. But this ONLY works when the site itself had taken that strong stand.
That is over, as is my time at WeldingWeb.com. I am really sorry to leave, but there is only room enough for one at the bottom. And you can bet, it looks a bit like this from Zap, ZT, and my perspective: Vaya Con Dios!! :waving:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6BCf_b8GfE&feature=player_detailpage

[Frank Chloupek]

Moderators have not been removed.

[BorderBrewer]

Adios Rojodiablo,
No puedo culparte por dejar

[SundownIII]

This is pure BULLSH1T and have already sent Frank a PM.

If only a portion of what Rojo stated is true, this could well be the beginning of the end for WeldingWeb.

I'll see you oldtimers over on Millerwelds.com. This place doesn't have anything for me anymore.

[Frank Chloupek]

Sundown,

So you don't have a problem with a forum that is 100% company controlled, but you do with one that has one segment of the forum controlled by a company and the rest isn't?

For those interested in inside baseball...

It looks like the settings on a particular "hidden" moderators area can't be accessed by normal moderators -- so I need to figure out how to get around that. I was using a test account and stupidly only checked the regular forums to look at the edit and delete functions that are most of a moderator's role.

[joedirt1966]

Money talks. Doesn't seem to matter where it comes from. PAC's, mobsters, drug lords, sith lords, politicians, etc.

We live in a day and age where the good guys don't always wear white and win. Green seems to win the day (Green money or Green Everlast).

Thanks to all the moderators who have worked hard at making WW a good place to visit and learn.

Wonder how long it will take for this thread to disappear into oblivion???

[daddy]

Depending on the order that you read some of the recent posts, there are a number of scenarios that could be inferred...


Most of them illicit some anger and resentment.

[bigb]

.

, this could well be the beginning of the end for WeldingWeb.

.

That would be a shame. As far as I know this is the most active and knowledgeable welding forum on the web.

[Fat Bastard]

Sundown,

So you don't have a problem with a forum that is 100% company controlled, but you do with one that has one segment of the forum controlled by a company and the rest isn't?

For those interested in inside baseball...

It looks like the settings on a particular "hidden" moderators area can't be accessed by normal moderators -- so I need to figure out how to get around that. I was using a test account and stupidly only checked the regular forums to look at the edit and delete functions that are most of a moderator's role.

The difference between Miller and The Chi-Com's is Miller has integrity the Chi-Com's have none, no honor, no respect they are totally self-serving.

That you cannot see the difference (or refuse to admit it) is indicative of the philosophy of the Chi_Com's in general and speaks volumes of their business practices.

The Chi-Com's are the same people that refuse to allow their own people access to the internet (until it is scrubbed be the party).

This is a black day for Welding Web. :angel:

[bp626indamix]

The difference between Miller and The Chi-Com's is Miller has integrity the Chi-Com's have none, no honor, no respect they are totally self-serving.

That you cannot see the difference (or refuse to admit it) is indicative of the philosophy of the Chi_Com's in general and speaks volumes of their business practices.

The Chi-Com's are the same people that refuse to allow their own people access to the internet (until it is scrubbed be the party).

This is a black day for Welding Web. :angel:

sad, but true.:(

[farmall]

This is a black day for Welding Web.

There ARE other forums where equipment companies don't call the shots. (One has the initials SFT.)


Wonder how long it will take for this thread to disappear into oblivion???

The print-to-pdf Firefox extension allows you to save such things for reference. They may be quoted in future. Google "Fair Use."

Enlightened companies view user-generated content as a benefit, which it is in the case of the excellent Miller and Hobart forums. They are EAGER to maintain revenue and delight their customers.
Experienced weldors and equipment geeks influence purchase decisions by MANY other potential customers. Not alienating such folk would seem to make sense, unless one is from a background where saving "face" matters more than credibility/honor.

[PapaLion]

I posated this over at FBs recent thread also

Well I was just wondering how hard this really is?

I cleaned a site I own, installed the base program, Joomla and then added the Forum Extention in about 30 minutes. Now, it would all be configured by a developement team ( Those guys are here I've talked to them on here)... They would have access to the back program and develop it as the group wished. So when u go take a looksee, realize this is like a blank piece of paper with a heading... lots of work to get it smooth... but Yea really U can do it pretty easily.

http://www.bluesoasis.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena
enjoy,

[poisonedbrew]

i visit this site daily but post very little. i've watched what has happened lately and i agree there's been alot of crap slung. this site has been fvery helpful and informative. ZTfab, Zap, and Rojodiablo ya'll will be missed.

[hvw]

To paraphrase what we say in the south, none of this Sponsored Forum business is going to wreck the plan of salvation.

I want to see Zap, ZT and Rojo continue as moderators. Most everyone on here does. Frank said they still are. He just needs to fix a glitch. Let's let it go at that.

Even with the addition of a sponsored forum this will still be the best all around welding information site. I haven't found a better one. And, for those who don't want to visit the Everlast site or the off topic site or whatever...just don't.

[Greg Lako]

I think that hvw has it right. I hope everyone stays as i think this is a very good form.

[1337one]

Bah, I doubt anyone is going to go anywhere. This sort of thing happens all the time, something changes and a bunch of self-important moderators and members get thier undies in a knot and whine and complain. Then they pitch big hissy fits and claim that they are leaving for greener pastures because the sky is falling here.

Ultimately they either get thier ego stroked enough by the newbies or eachother to stay or they storm off for a while and pout but eventually come back. I mean, look at Zapster, a while back, he too, started a indignant thread saying that he was leaving and never coming back. What happened? he came back and even got made a moderator!

These primadonas don't want to give up all the attention and power that they think they have here. They may go off to places like weldfabzone.com and post messages complaining about how things are going to hell in a handbasket here but they always come back even if it's just to troll.

[farmersamm]

Rojo, you've been a pretty even handed guy. Hope the road takes ya to a better place. Be safe amongst the English:waving:

[1337one]

Rojo, you've been a pretty even handed guy. Hope the road takes ya to a better place. Be safe amongst the English:waving:

Why are you acting like its goodbye? Rojo hasn't left, and probably won't. Since his big "signing out" he's posted like 12 times in other threads in less than two days!

[Stack of Dimes]

Bah, I doubt anyone is going to go anywhere. This sort of thing happens all the time, something changes and a bunch of self-important moderators and members get thier undies in a knot and whine and complain. Then they pitch big hissy fits and claim that they are leaving for greener pastures because the sky is falling here.

Ultimately they either get thier ego stroked enough by the newbies or eachother to stay or they storm off for a while and pout but eventually come back. I mean, look at Zapster, a while back, he too, started a indignant thread saying that he was leaving and never coming back. What happened? he came back and even got made a moderator!

These primadonas don't want to give up all the attention and power that they think they have here. They may go off to places like weldfabzone.com and post messages complaining about how things are going to hell in a handbasket here but they always come back even if it's just to troll.

My man speakin true talk.

[zapster]

Seems like "Your Man" has been here before under a different username..
Correct me if I am wrong..:rolleyes:

And I got my whistle back!

...zap!

[Stack of Dimes]

Seems like "Your Man" has been here before under a different username..
Correct me if I am wrong..:rolleyes:

And I got my whistle back!


And how would I know? I don't have IP access. If you know who the guy is then say it. I don't have a clue who he might have logged in as before.

Don't bring me into your conspiracy theories.

I'm just agreeing with what the guy said, you mistake slang for knowing who he was. We ain't all 'brothers' even if we call each other that.

So you have a whistle. Want a cookie?

[farmersamm]

Why are you acting like its goodbye? Rojo hasn't left, and probably won't. Since his big "signing out" he's posted like 12 times in other threads in less than two days!

ANY CHANCE TO POST A SEMI LEGITIMATE NUDIE PIC, AND I'M ON IT!!!!!!!!:p

[CEP]

ANY CHANCE TO POST A SEMI LEGITIMATE NUDIE PIC, AND I'M ON IT!!!!!!!!:p

And a fine one at that! :cool2:

[Aquafire]

so...I have missed a lot of the background on this.... Is there a thread explaining what this is all about and what it means for the future? If so, let's have the link or the info.

This seems pretty significant and I think all members/visitors deserve a better explanation, Frank.

[Aquafire]

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=48012
Found it. Posts like that generally cause me to yawn and skip; thanks for the other posts for calling my attention to it. Going now to "get up to speed". :)

[denrep]

so...I have missed a lot of the background on this.... Is there a thread explaining what this is all about and what it means for the future? If so, let's have the link or the info.

This seems pretty significant and I think all members/visitors deserve a better explanation, Frank.

Aquafire
Watch the "Announcements" section.
It's there, buried amongst the chaff.

Good Luck

[1337one]

Seems like "Your Man" has been here before under a different username..
Correct me if I am wrong..:rolleyes:

Hey sherlock, like Stack said, look at the IPs, what do they say?



And I got my whistle back!
...zap!

Ah, more inane rambling from our head paranoid prima donna..

I think I'll post my favorite Zap quote(s) ever:


...
ZT is gone..
I'm gone..
..
I will not be attending this site ever again..
...
later.

...zap!




ANY CHANCE TO POST A SEMI LEGITIMATE NUDIE PIC, AND I'M ON IT!!!!!!!!:p

This is the friggin' internet you semi-evolved simian, if we want to see scantily clan or un-clad women there are millions of other site we can go to. We don't need your sophmoric off-topic, all-caps, oversized-font crap littering threads. Grow up okie, you aren't as entertaining as you think.

[Fat Bastard]

Hey sherlock, like Stack said, look at the IPs, what do they say?




Ah, more inane rambling from our head paranoid prima donna..

I think I'll post my favorite Zap quote(s) ever:







This is the friggin' internet you semi-evolved simian, if we want to see scantily clan or un-clad women there are millions of other site we can go to. We don't need your sophmoric off-topic, all-caps, oversized-font crap littering threads. Grow up okie, you aren't as entertaining as you think.

and who are you entertaining? :waving: not me. :sleeping:

[zapster]

Hey sherlock, like Stack said, look at the IPs, what do they say?




Ah, more inane rambling from our head paranoid prima donna..

I think I'll post my favorite Zap quote(s) ever:







This is the friggin' internet you semi-evolved simian, if we want to see scantily clan or un-clad women there are millions of other site we can go to. We don't need your sophmoric off-topic, all-caps, oversized-font crap littering threads. Grow up okie, you aren't as entertaining as you think.





OK lets see here..
You have a whopping 4 posts..
You seem to know all about everything here..

That my friend classifies you as a TROLL

Yup nothing more nothing less..

Are you about done here?:waving:

And I'll bet you cant weld to save your sorry A$$.

One other thing..
I'M not gonna ban you..
Waste of time..
I'll just let you do your thing and everyone here will see you for what you are..
Nothing.

...zap!

[Aquafire]

This is the friggin' internet you semi-evolved simian, if we want to see scantily clan or un-clad women there are millions of other site we can go to. We don't need your sophmoric off-topic, all-caps, oversized-font crap littering threads. Grow up okie, you aren't as entertaining as you think.

To Mr "1337One".... I notice that you have a grand total of three posts on this site prior to the above. This indicates to me a couple of things:

First, your lack of previous contribution indicates you are probably not a 'regular' here. Being a regular visitor and reader will allow you to accumulate two main things: the first is knowledge. Knowledge, for example, that someone like FarmerSamm is a well-known regular and we (the regulars) come to know and love him. We have come to know that he is human and has a personality. A personality that we (the regulars) know to include a penchant for posting naughty pics. I saw that post and thought "yep, good 'ol Samm posting a naughty pic, again" as probably did most of us. I, as many that know him, chuckled, because the post was revealing not an attractive derriere, but an attractive personality in the poster. You didn't know that because you are not a regular.

The second thing you can get as a regular visitor and contributor: respect. I will contrast your 3 posts to FarmerSamms six-thousand, seven hundred and some.

This brings me back to one of the main things I wanted to mention: as a newbie here (at least in terms of your contributions) you should walk the talk a bit before you walk in and start shooting your mouth off and lecturing/criticizing regulars.

Carry on as normal Samm- you've been entertaining me for a long time- both with your wit and humor was well as your welding/fabricating abilities! We see who the simian is.

[Aquafire]

Wow Zap,
I thought I typed fast... I dont know how you beat me to it! Must have fingers of lightning.

[Aquafire]

I'M not gonna ban you..

How COULD you- we'd need a MODERATOR to do that! :D
j/k hope it wasn't too soon for that joke! :)

[CurreyR]

one thing to remember aquafire ... it's not all about "post count". FWIW, I respect jimcolt the most since lurking, and he's got <800 posts.

I've been a "guest" here for about 1-2 years, but never registered/posted until recently (been moving/remodeling). After a recent theft am now needing to replace some stolen equipment, so figured I'd join the "fray".

[Aquafire]

If you thought I'm saying "post count is everything" you should re-read what I've written as you've missed the point.

To use a workforce analogy, FarmerSamm is the welder that has worked faithfully in my factory for 35 years and whats-his-name is the summer-intern criticizing the leadhand's work on day 1 on the job. He has a right to talk and I have the right to evaluate his complaint but tempered with the respect he's earned in my shop. Maybe he's a bright guy- but bright folks don't walk in and start hollering complaints as they don't last long.

Anyway, this was about the changes to the site, wasn't it... Lets get back to "Yellow talk, sponsored by Neverlast"

[joedirt1966]

This is the friggin' internet you semi-evolved simian, if we want to see scantily clan or un-clad women there are millions of other site we can go to. We don't need your sophmoric off-topic, all-caps, oversized-font crap littering threads. Grow up okie, you aren't as entertaining as you think.

Yes, but if we can learn about welding and see scantily clad or un-clad women at the same site, we can save a few clicks!

[denrep]

. . .you aren't as entertaining as you think.

I have to agree with at least that part. . .

because he's much more entertaining than he realizes!


http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo66/karen9547/Emoticons/mutley-ani1.gif

[Bluewelders]

Entertaining would be Everlast and Longitivity settling this like gentleman.
With knives and axes out in the parking lot.

[Showdog75]

Rojo, you've been a pretty even handed guy. Hope the road takes ya to a better place. Be safe amongst the English:waving:

All I want to know children , is it cooter ,cudor, or kuder. :laugh:

Attached Images

[ATV]

Hi Guys,

I've owned and therefore moderated a forum longer than anyone on this board. I've also had to deal with the issues of a forum from a business perspective -- which brings with it certain realities. I've seen about every kind of abuse and sneaky trick anyone has ever tried on a forum. In short, I have some perspective that might help folks concerned over this topic.

Its not unusual for a company to have their own sub-forum within a forum and to be given moderator rights over their own forum. That is actually a good thing because with their forum comes some clearly established rules. Typically it means they can edit/delete posts they don't think is in the best interest of their company. That is only fair and a reality of business on the web. On the flip side, you can choose not to post in their forum and still talk about them or their products in some other sub-forum. Its a win-win for everyone.

As for moderators being removed without talking to them first - if that were true that's not very ethical and would be a real slap in the face. Moderating is not easy. Its not fun. It takes work and dedication. A forum can't run without good moderators. This forum owes their moderators a debt for stepping up and doing a thankless job. So it goes without saying that they should be treated with respect and appreciation.

There are two sides to every story. I prefer to believe things didn't go down as described. Usually when someone posts a topic like this its because they are hoping other people will side with them. In reality, it usually results in some heated discussions for a day or two and a week later the whole topic is forgotten. Pointless, really.

So...how about those welders?

[Rugar]

Does anyone remember this thread? Especially post #5 and #6. Maybe this is not the way they envisioned the changes? :laugh:
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=47358&highlight=unsubscribe

[Brett]

Mmm
I don't know what is right or wrong, I come here to read , I rarely post .
I don't get into to the politics of of Web Site , sorry I have a life in the real world.

I do remember , once, just once I commented about Everlast.
The thread was locked before anyone could post in it ,I made no comment ,
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=33610

But if anyone is interested in my opinion
WW is the poorer for Everlasts presence and poorer for R's absence.But if their presence allows WW's existence , cool . As with fools and children they are easy to ignore.

Still I'm going here again , its a great site with some gun welders posting.

Could be better.

Brett Thompson.

[hvw]

I wanna know where Samm meets these girls.

[Fat Bastard]

I wanna know where Samm meets these girls.

the track they must fall off the train some how?

[Matt_Maguire]

Hi Guys,

I've owned and therefore moderated a forum longer than anyone on this board.
(snip)

So...how about those welders?

Hi ATV,

Say, there might be a few to maybe a good number of us old "8-bit 80s" farts that may wager on that comment.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Welcome aboard!

Matt

[ATV]

Hi ATV,

Say, there might be a few to maybe a good number of us old "8-bit 80s" farts that may wager on that comment.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Welcome aboard!

Matt

Hi Matt,

LOL! Thanks for the welcome! I remember Compuserve. You must be a fellow I.T. guy? I guess that makes us a couple of old farts!

I started my forum on the internet in 1996. The internet started in 1995. When I first got on the internet (somewhere around 1995) the WWW didn't exist yet. Gopher was the tool used for publishing/reading on the internet. That or usenet news groups. Ah...the good ol' days!

[Matt_Maguire]

Hi Matt,

LOL! Thanks for the welcome! I remember Compuserve. You must be a fellow I.T. guy? I guess that makes us a couple of old farts!

I started my forum on the internet in 1996. The internet started in 1995. When I first got on the internet (somewhere around 1995) the WWW didn't exist yet. Gopher was the tool used for publishing/reading on the internet. That or usenet news groups. Ah...the good ol' days!

14+ years moderating? You'd prolly win a bet or two there!

Not I.T. just an enthusiast. Actually the backbone was available in the early 80s. A number of locals here got together and leased a paired T-1 hooked to H&R blocks node in Peoria and put together a multi user dialup BB.

From there we could go to BBs anywhere without the dialup and long distance charges. Our group was NOT one of the early bunches that probed the backbone looking for trouble...

Those were fun and exciting times!

(edit) it was not uncommon then to find yourself in a place you didn't intend, and weren't supposed to be. That was before all the protocols were in place, A/D had some problems etc. etc.

Matt

[WeldingRay]

Hi ATV,

Say, there might be a few to maybe a good number of us old "8-bit 80s" farts that may wager on that comment.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Welcome aboard!

Matt


Dude, I had a 5 digit Compuserve user ID. Do you remember A-Base?? Does the name Rex Brown ring a bell.
I still have a CPM disk around here somewhere.. Ooh, Ooh. How about this Hayes modem. ..65556!

[jsfab]

Bet you guys even talked to Algore, while he was busy inventin' this interweb, also. :)

[Skeluhtor]

How much could it cost to sponser a forum? All the angry mods should pitch in and sponser an anti chicom forum.

[PapaLion]

EZ to find out and common knowledge I suppose?
Owner/Registrant of WeldingWeb.com is:

Registrant:
Penton Business Media, Inc
249 W 17th Street
New York, NY 10011
US

Admin:
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Penton Business Media, Inc domain_admin@penton.com
249 W 17th Street
New York, NY 10011
US
212-204-4200 fax: 913-341-1300

So, no matter how we wonder, bicker, lament, piss and moan... IF these owners like the way things are then they get to choose.

Choices:
1. live with it and forget it
2. complain and argue about it.

not saying that #1 or # 2 is a bad idea:)

Start a new similar site somewhere, somehow else. Hopefully with ownership controlled and protected by a group of welders/non-profit etc.
? other ideas?

I got a dissed a bit (not zactlee sure by who, ?everlast employee i dunno?) for suggesting a free Joomla/Forum site... turns out there are about 900,000 of those Joomla/Forum sites specifically world wide... so a few folks seem to get by with them. This is not a turn key thing and would take work of course. Several fellas already claim to understand the whole can of worms i.e personal friends with Al Gore and the like I suppose.... Me, I know just enough to be dangerous:) As a group it would not be that hard.

I personally own the BluesOasis.com site and I loaded it with the basic programs needed. They would need to be fully configured of course to work smoothly. I can do what I damn well please with that site and I can donate the whole mess to the group to develop it if
I wish. Note: I betcha there are a dozen more similar set ups just sitting on someones server who would offer the same deal.


Meanwhile... anyone got popcorn?:drinkup:

[sn0border88]

Its funny how a bunch of "manly" welders can be reduced to nothing but a bunch of name calling preschoolers simply by being given a keyboard.

Personally I think its great. I have no idea what this whole moderator spat is about, but y'all continue to make it worthwhile to come back a checkup on the drama.

:waving:

[DavidSim]

>>I want to see Zap, ZT and Rojo continue as moderators.<<

Me too.

BTW, the occasional scantily clad woman is ok by me, as long as it's not one of my relatives.

Regards to all.