beginner with tig

[benchracer1]

I have been practicing with my synchrowave 250. I have been following suugestions on this forum and starting with coupons and butt welds. A problem I am having with steel is the welds look great, on the backside. If I back off the pedal it seems to rapidly evolve into a cold weld. I am wondering if this could be caused by the tungsten to close. using 1/16 steel, 1/16th tungsten, 85 amps and pure argon. I have tried a couple of filets but that is a different program

[Torn7th]

Howdy bro. Ok your learning TIG its a big curve honestly trust me lol . To learn i would not even bother with using a pedal unless your doing AC alum. Best way is to set the Syncro and learn that before palying with a pedal control. On a Syncro 250 which is what we have id start with 90 - 120 amps,HF start, Crater time on 4-5 secs, Postflow 2-3 secs. 3/32nd is the BEST filler to learn on in my opinon. You do not need 1/8th tungsten or filler unless your doing thick metal . If your doing mild steel clean the hell out of it lol. Stainless clean also but Mild is the worst if its even remotely dirty.Also set your argon about 15-20 cfh its less with a gas lens but we will get to that later.....PRACTICE PRACTICE .... Trust me thats how i got it. Alot of 4 letter words were involved before i really got the swing of it ...Did i mention clamps flying across the shop also lol lol lol :jester:

[weldbead]

do not overlook the value of 10 and 12 letter words......

[benchracer1]

thanx. is it normal to have the weld with so much penetration?

[SundownIII]

Blind leading the blind.:dizzy:

No four letter words needed.

Torn,

Maybe you'd like to explain the 4-5 seconds of "crater time".

You also may find that postflow of 2-3 sec. @ 90-120A is also BS.

Of course, I may learn something new here. Only been welding with Sync's for about 30 years.

If it gets any "better" later, I think I'll take a pass.


Where the he11 do these :jester: come from?

[benchracer1]

sundown, what do you recomend for a setup on my syncrowave? My practice material is 1/16 mild steel. i have been using red 1/16th tungsten, 85 amps 100% argon at 15 psi. I dont want to practice with the machine setup incorrect. Is seems that the top of the weld is looking a bit hot and the backside looks like that is where the weld was made. I try to back off the pedal a little and it looks a little cold. I will try to post pics later.....Steve

[con_fuse9]

sundown, what do you recomend for a setup on my syncrowave? My practice material is 1/16 mild steel. i have been using red 1/16th tungsten, 85 amps 100% argon at 15 psi. I dont want to practice with the machine setup incorrect. Is seems that the top of the weld is looking a bit hot and the backside looks like that is where the weld was made. I try to back off the pedal a little and it looks a little cold. I will try to post pics later.....Steve

As long as you are adding filler to the puddle and not melting the filler directly with the torch, it will not be cold. in fact 85Amps is a bit hot - but that's why there is a pedal. Probably a too hot for a beginner.

The amount of penetration you get is directly proportional to the width of the puddle. You want deeper penetration, make a wider puddle. That works up to the point the top side bead disappears and you have more of a river valley than a bead. In that case, use less amps, more filler, and/or move faster..

Everyone is a bit different - but try to make a bead 3x to 4x the metal thickness. Use the pedal to control the width. Maybe even draw two parallel lines 1/4" apart. See what works for you. Machine characteristics and settings affect this as well as the operator, so you need to figure out what works for you.

In fact, you'll get to the point that by looking at the weld on the topside you will be able to predict how it looks on the bottom.

BTW, the rest of your settings are good enough (well, assuming you don't have a 1" nozzle). http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/calculators/tig_amperage_calculator.php <= that will get you in the ballpark.

[Rugar]

Sundown never has any recommendations. All he ever has is criticism. :rolleyes:

[benchracer1]

i think I have some pics. The top one is the back of the coupon. The second one is the top. the weld closest to the hole in the metal was run with a relatively same amp all the way thru. the second one I backed off the pedal and it seemed to get a little cold. Thanx in advance you guys for the input

[prop-doctor]

just keep running bead after bead on flat plate to learn puddle control
maybe go up to 1/8 steel-- 1/16 is tuff to learn
its all hood time practice practice..... an some more
run 50 beads 6inch long next to each other
and you should seen improvment
then lap ,butt joints (snicker snicker butt joints ) then filets
ITS ALL HOOD TIME

[SundownIII]

benchracer,

I prefer starting my guys on 1/8" mild steel. It's thick enough to learn heat control with, but not so thick as to require a bunch of amps (110-120A). The 1/16" is what I have them move to after becoming proficient on the thicker material.

I get plenty of scrap 1/8" from my buddy's dumpster (drops from the plasma table). Generally, if it's less than about 2' left on the end of a sheet, they'll throw it rather than taking a chance of it rolling up and striking the plasma head.

I'll take the sheet and rip 2" strips off of it with the Metal Cut Saw. Leaves a nice, weld ready edge. Then I'll take a 60gr flap disk and remove the mill scale (genearally, both sides but sometimes only one). I'll then cut them into 4" long strips (either with the band saw with several stacked or with the plasma). I'll generally do the cutting and let my guys do the grinding.:D

Get used to controlling the puddle as you move along without adding filler. If you're consistent, it will show on the back side of the coupon. Once you've got this down, start to add filler. Get used to stopping the bead and restarting without the stop showing.

Use several coupons at a setting. Swap out coupons between beads. Running a second bead beside one already laid down will give you a "false reading" since it's been preheated by the first bead.

After you've got this down pat, it's time to move to the butt joints. Steel is not as sensitive to heat buildup as aluminum is but you'll still find yourself backing off slightly on the amps as you progress with the bead. Either that, or you'll find yourself moving faster than you might be comfortable. Telling someone to learn tig without a pedal/finger control (when you've got a Sync to learn with) is flat out stupid. I've done a fair amount of scratch start/lift arc tig and it's not the best way to learn.

When you move to your T joints, the biggest thing is to remember to keep a higher percentage of heat on the flat (horizontal) piece rather than the vertical piece. The flat will take more heat than the edge on the vertical piece.

Your settings didn't look that far off for 1/16" material. Miller recommends about 1 sec of postflow per 10 amps welding ampherage. Good rule of thumb, but I seldom use more than 10-12 seconds, even for heavier material. Never heard of holding the tungsten too close. Too close means that you're dipping it too often. If you can hold a 1/16'-1/8" arc you're doing well.

[SundownIII]

Rugar,

Maybe you should go back and read more of my posts.

Might just show you how stupid your comments are.

(I was typing a response when Rugar posted)


PS: Maybe you should go back to the Neverlast forum and play there. People on the real Welding Web have enough experience to see right thru your BS. Over there, with the newbies, you may get by with your lack of knowledge.

[Rugar]

Rugar,

Maybe you should go back and read more of my posts.

Might just show you how stupid your comments are.

(I was typing a response when Rugar posted)


PS: Maybe you should go back to the Neverlast forum and play there. People on the real Welding Web have enough experience to see right thru your BS. Over there, with the newbies, you may get by with your lack of knowledge.

So it took you four hours to type your response? (Look at the times of the posts) Why do you always have to be so negative with your initial response? Always takes someone calling you out on it to get you to post anything positive.
Sundown, we all know that you know your ****, but damn dude, why cant you just help out to start with without being a *** to start with?

[con_fuse9]

[QUOTE=Rugar;468914]Why do you always have to be so negative with your initial response? /QUOTE]

Go read Torn7th response and see if that one was helpful. Please point to _ANY_ part of his post that was actually useful in anyway. Remember, the OP said he was welding on 1/16"

In the meantime, I'm checking my Dynasty 350 manual for that cool crater setting. Maybe the hidden menu. :) How big of a crater can I make in 3 seconds?:)

[con_fuse9]

i think I have some pics. The top one is the back of the coupon. The second one is the top. the weld closest to the hole in the metal was run with a relatively same amp all the way thru. the second one I backed off the pedal and it seemed to get a little cold. Thanx in advance you guys for the input

Uhm, you completely melted through the pieces and the start of the 2nd one looks like you actually got the middle to drop out a bit (over heat). There is nothing cold on any of those welds. By the heat patterns I can guarantee you cooked it well.

When people talked about penetration, they don't mean how deep you completely re-arranged the molecules, they mean how deep in the crack the weld goes. If you can get the backside to go molten and its only 1mm wide, that is 100% penetration. Trying to make the back side look exactly like the front is _NOT_ the goal.

As for where to go from here. Sundowns advice about thicker materials is 100% true. Sheet metal poses some unique challenges. On the flip side, if you are comfortable with working on thinner stuff, you've already demonstrated you can run 'too hot' and not burn through. Just let it cool between beads.

BTW
You mentioned 'butt welds' in the original post. Do you have pictures of those?

[ByThePiece]

Benchracer you might try a couple pieces of 1/8 plate tack you some T's and practice welding those together. Practice welding them flat first, the T will give you a bit more control of your torch. Put a cup big enough not to interfere with your weld, adjust your tungsten accordingly. Good luck, keep practicing.

[LONGEVITYPerformance]

i am going to have to go with sundown on this. learning the curves on tig is a little much for 1/16th material and a beginner. you are going to have to learn to read the puddle, learn to manipulate the puddle, and learn to keep the puddle moving consistently first.

the same thing as confuse said as well about penetration.

even if you dont have access to a buddy with a plas table and a dumpster out back, a 20 ft stick of 2x1/8 flat bar from the steel supplier is around 20 bucks. buy it, cut it into 4 to 6 inch pieces and start melting the metal.

patience and endurance are going to be the key to learning this curve. seems that you are off to a decent start, just need to read the puddle

[Donald Branscom]

I just purchased a Smith and Wesson 500 Magnum. I am having problems getting it loaded.

Any suggestions? LOL Sorry couldn't help it.LOL lol...lol...lol

But at least you have a Miller Syncrowave 250 !!!!!! /the king!!!

OK I will get serious now.

Crater fill -OFF.

The amps set on the machine is not the actual amps you are using .
It is only a portion that you are using when you depress the foot pedal. Unless you just mash it down completely.

When you practice DO NOT use a flat plate .
Try to take two plates and weld them together.
When you try practicing on a flat plate you have to start up very hot and as the plate heats up you have to move faster and faster or let off the pedal. And control the torch and filler rod. Too much.

When you said 1/16 steel and 1/16 tungsten did that mean 1/16 plate? or 1/16 filler rod diameter?
On a 1/16 plate and 1/16 tungsten you will need the smaller .045 filler rod and maybe even a .035 filler rod.

The diameter of the filler rod can effect the travel speed of your welding and make it hard if you have to wait for the filler rod to melt in the puddle.

Remember the trick to TIG is HOT,CLOSE ,FAST.

Not slow like oxy-actylene welding.

Most beginners have to be told, when TIG welding, "you better get moving"

Make welding coupons. Two plates tacked together on each end and beveled if needed.
Not just flat plate.

Set your main amps to about 100 for that 1/16 because you will only be using part of that amperage.

[jethro]

Benchracer1:
I havn't tiged all that long but you might try this:
Take your thin steel and start at one end , (no rod at all) start the arc and watch for a shiney puddle
to form. As you see it forming start moving slowly- slow enough that your shiney puddle keeps up with
your arc. If it gets smaller slow down enough to let it grow back to a set constant size ( maybe
1/8? or a little less) move and watch -
as you get close to the end of the plate you will see the puddle wanting to get bigger without you
slowing down any. Back off on the peddle just a little trying to keep your same speed. keep reducing
current near the end - the current will be really low near the last little bit of the edge.
Do this several times on different sheets of metal. Each time after you do this inspect the back side
of the cupon. If you were too hot you will see little oval "droops" where the back got too liquid (hot).
If just rite you will see a strange looking stripe but no geometric bulges. If not hot enough you will
see no trail following the bead on the other side.
Maybe do this with 1/8 sheet to stat with. This should help you a lot to get the feel of too much/too little heat. It will also help you track what the back is doing by watching what the front looks like.
I think you will learn this faster than you expect. After this seems easier then go back and work
on adding rod AND doing the first part with the same constant adjustments. I have found in general
the closer you can keep the point of he electrode to the puddle - the better the weld looks ( but you may accidently dip the tungsten more often !
If I have said anything outrageious here I'm sure someone will kindly correct my error !
Have a good time- the fun is in the learning !
Tim

[darthwelder]

Sundown never has any recommendations. All he ever has is criticism. :rolleyes:

LOL...someone else knows SD like I do!!! lawls.

Hey SD...:nono:

[SundownIII]

Well Darth,

You only got that about "half right".

I do know how to weld. Do YOU?

[yorkiepap]

Hey guys,
Personal attacks are not going to be tolerated.....for ANY reason! If you have a problem with a response to a thread because of a bit of criticism, make an effort to keep it civil & tactful. No need to start another flaming war over nonsense......

Denny