Notes from Taiwan: WDF Publisher Bob Rosenbaum's trade visit

[Bob at WeldingMag]

I’m in Taiwan for the week to meet with customers and prospects, and to attend Manufacturing Taipei, the manufacturing technology show sponsored by the Taiwan External Trade Development Council (TAITRA). It’s a non-government agency akin to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
I’m going to use this space to post my impressions. Please don’t hesitate to do the usual – comment, argue, debate, expand and digress.

My flight arrived at 6:10 a.m. local time, after nearly 14 hours from Los Angeles. The difference between airports was remarkable; while the international terminal of LAX felt third-world, CSK (Chang Kai-shek) International was quiet, orderly and well-marked. I was through customs and on a bus into Taipei within 30 minutes of touch-down.
If the trip THROUGH the airport was different from the United States, the trip FROM the airport was a lot like the drive from Newark International to Manhattan. Substitute the meadowlands of the Garden State for rice paddies sandwiched between ramshackle manufacturing facilities, and you pretty much get the picture. (That’s not to say that this characterizes Taiwan’s manufacturing sector; perhaps it’s just a widespread rule that airports tend to be separated from cities by depressed manufacturing districts).
The highways here look a lot like New Jersey too. In Europe, cars are small, smaller and smallest. Here, though, they are full size. You don’t see very many SUVs (and none of the behemoth Hummers, Navigators and Tahoes); but you see all of the familiar models of the Japanese nameplates and a fair number of Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, Saab, Opel and – once in a while – Ford.
In the city, motorscooters are everywhere. At stoplights, they weave between lanes, all collecting at the front of the stopped traffic. When the light turns green, they zip away in a crowd, with a buzz that sounds like the start of the Indy 500 played at 45 rpm.
There’s not much to say yet in the way of business yet. I just got here, and today is a national holiday – something like Labor Day.
Tuesday brings more focus on the publishing business then the machine tool business, but the intinerary is full after that, including a trip to Taichung – Taiwan’s second city and home to its industrial base.
More to come.

[Bob at WeldingMag]

I took a long walk through the commercial neighborhoods near the World Trade Center – which has an impressive 101-story office tower that claims to be the world’s tallest building. It didn’t look much like a national holiday; everyone seemed to be working.
My hotel is international, and the ring of blocks surrounding it looked like the convention district of most big cities.
But it only took about 10 minutes to get into neighborhoods where the businesses are strictly local. I tried to engage a few people in shops along the way (especially at the watch shop that had an authentic, lightly worn Oris/John McLaughlin Jazz Edition watch in the window – but I digress). Neither he, nor the two others merchants I tried, spoke a word of English. So the claim that Taiwan is bilingual is apparently limited to those in the international business community and, I suspect, the well-educated and well-paid. Same as anywhere else I suppose.
So I stopped trying, and for the next 2 hours, I became invisible. Nobody willingly made eye contact with me, and pedestrians and cyclists – even little old ladies – constantly turned directly into my path, even as they would walk around and greet others near them. (This is a good size city – 2.5 million people – and there is a head-down mentality at street level; but no doubt: I was invisible.) I didn’t see another non-Asian the whole time.
Taiwan has been at the vanguard of capitalism in Asia. It has a two-party government that is democratically elected; a sophisticated manufacturing base and an advanced concept of supply chain management -- leading the world in production of silicon chips (at least it did the last time I knew the stats, which was 2 or 3 years ago). It’s been an international trading center since before the United States was a nation.
But consumers here live in a much older world. Retail is still about one-window store-fronts on crowded alleys. Scooter dealers, watch shops, tailors and grocers all seem to use about the same square footage. Car mechanics work on one car at a time, in a bay that is just the right size -- if you were to replace the garage door with a big window – to host a decent selection of digital cameras and camcorders.
And everyone is a specialist. I saw one tool shop and three or four keymakers and just as many plumbing supply stores. But I never saw anything that had the broad selection of our neighborhood hardware store; never mind Home Depot.
There is no Harborfreight here.
But I’m guessing change is on the way. There’s no Wal-Mart or Target or Walgreen’s. Yet. But Costco has 4 outlets here, outside the city center – I’m sure in wealthier neighborhoods. But where I was looked very working class – not poor.
There are 2 major department stores and a mall near my hotel. One of the department stores, called New York New York, is a large collection of independent vendors under one roof. It’s really like an open-air market, with better merchandising and on 5 or 6 levels. The traffic there seemed healthy enough – very local, very young. Directly across the street is Shin Kong Mitsukoshi – a department store as I know it: a single vendor with branded departments. It was sleeker and fresher than New York New York, and carried name brand (Western) merchandise. It was bustling.
The mall was could have been on Michigan Avenue in Chicago. It was organized by price point; the entrance was on the third level. As I went down, the stores became less expensive and more local. As I went up, they became more expensive and more international – Fendi, Dolce & Gabana, Tiffany.
The mall – especially the middle floors with clothing at or slightly above American price-points – was packed with young shoppers.
And everything was on sale. Sometimes the sale was marked. But most times, the shop keeper carried a calculator around and followed me; anything I saw would have a special discount – which he or she would quickly show me on the calculator. Maybe I was just an obvious Western tourist with money to spend. Or maybe this is how they do business in the mall.
To compare these two commercial experiences made a few things clear: The Western business world has not yet penetrated here, and where it has, it’s still not New Jersey. And the typical differences between young and old show up here as much as anywhere. In the packed neighborhoods, people were older. In the malls, they were younger.
Oh yeah, youth: One of the tourist brochures I picked up noted that 55% of Taiwan’s population is under the age of 30. Things here are changing every day.
Tomorrow, down to business.

[Bob at WeldingMag]

Everywhere you go, there are problems. I shared some informal conversation with a couple of Taiwanese business managers today, and that’s what I learned.
For example, they worry about the education their children are getting. There are so few university positions available here, that getting an advanced education is an art form that begins in grade school. Children become so good at testing that the adults wonder whether they’re actually learning anything useful – or if they’re just getting an education in test-taking.
We have Generations X and Y? They have a name for today’s 20-somethings: the “strawberry generation.” These young adults are tough and prickly on the outside, but turn into mush the slightest squeeze. Their grandparents suffered hardship to make money; their parents worked hard to make money. People feel that the Strawberries have always had money in their life and they’ve become spoiled and unwilling to suffer.
I thought I was back in Kansas, Toto.
Their government-funded retirement system tops out in the range of $100 US/month. So children ARE social security. You have them and raise them to take care of you. And making money isn’t something you do so you can have a good life or so you can buy new things. It’s not a means to an end. Making money IS the end.
We can complain about the quality of Taiwanese machine tools, or about the difficulty in finding parts. But for families here that are in the business of making machine tools, they won’t rest until they solve those problems are solved. That’s how they make money in a culture of humility – that is, learning from what others have to say.
Perhaps that is why the optimism here is so palpable.
Taiwan is booming, as are all its neighbors. It feels like everything here is going well, and it’s never going to stop.
Remember the go-go ‘90s, when prominent American economists (and stockbrokers!) were declaring that we had broken through the boom-to-bust business cycle to achieve a state of constant growth?
They sound like Eeyore compared to the people I met today.
In fact, reading the international newspapers here, pretty much everybody in Asia feels like the future belongs to them.

Tomorrow: 13 back-to-back meetings with equipment manufacturers.

[scott brunsdon]

Great reading Bob. Isn't it amazing to walk down a street and be the only non-Asian.
Love that term: the 'Strawberry Generation.'
The work ethic in countries like that is something hard for people in countries like ours to comprehend. And it is a threat to our economies. Here, people can survive pretty comfortably on welfare. There is public housing, free medical care etc etc. In countries like Taiwan, if you don't work, you don't eat. People have children because they are essential for supporting parents in old age.
In the 70s we had alot of Vietnamese (and others) come here. They were collectively called 'boat people.' I live in a part of Sydney where many settled. My favourite local Vietnamese restaurant was (he died last year) run by Mr Minh. He escaped with his wife and three little kids on a fishing boat after the fall of Saigon. Even today, that community works harder than any other in Sydney. I have enormous respect for them.
Scott

[TxRedneck]

Sounds like youre having fun Bob. Hope your trip is sucessful and enjoyable.
CHRIS

[Sandy]

Yeh, keep posting your experiences and thoughts. Just cuzz I don't respond doesn't mean I'm not reading and enjoying. ;)

[Bob at WeldingMag]

Thanks for the kind words, friends. Here's an interesting sidenote to my visit:

A feature story in the Asian edition of The Wall Street Journal featured the Flying Pigeon bicycle company. It was the state-owned company that made the ubiquitous bike that everybody in (mainland) China seemed to ride. There was one model. It had a single speed and came in any color you wanted, as long as it was black.
In the late ‘80s, they sold 4 million Flying Pigeon bikes; to get on the waiting list for one cost roughly one-month’s pay.
Then China engaged the West and Flying Pigeon's world changed. Its customers began to buy cars. Or they started looking for bikes in different colors. And with changeable gears to help them up hills.
A few small companies began to make such bicycles -- and thrived. In 1999, Flying Pigeon laid off its last 10,000 employers and a group of managers paid for rights to the name.

The epilogue:
Those entrepreneurs who put Flying Pigeon out of business became some of the largest bicycle manufacturers in the world – doing the worst along the way to Huffy and on-again-off-again Schwinn.
They are the leading suppliers to Wal-Mart, K-Mart and Target, accounting for 90 percent of all bikes sold in the United States. I just bought one of those bikes for my son a few months ago; I might have even mentioned here at WeldingWeb how ambivalent I was to pay so little.
Turns out the Chinese sell this mountain bike to U.S. wholesalers for $35 apiece at a 3% margin. That’s right: They literally make a dollar.
The American wholesaler makes $8 when it sells the bike to a retailer, according to the article. The retailer puts a $70 price on the bike – and makes $17.
Now, those former Flying Pigeon managers have gotten into the game. They're making mountain bikes that are competitive and stylish. They’ve gone a step farther -- outsourcing production to Indonesia and Sudan, where labor costs less. They’re trying to break into the Afghanistan market, where people seem to need mountain bikes.
If it were fiction, could you write it any better than this?

[Bob at WeldingMag]

Wednesday
Manufacturing Tapei is a small trade show, with 80 percent of exhibitors based in Taiwan. It was a good chance for neighbors/competitors to talk – which is why they were so happy to see me coming as the only international media representative.

When our other magazine, American Machinist, surveyed readers just about a year ago, they told us the perception of Taiwan-made machine tools is:
- low-cost to buy and own
- at best of average design (at best)
- inappropriate for precision work
- not useful where flexibility is demanded
- strictly off-the-shelf
- a spare-parts nightmare.
In other words, we think that “Made in Taiwan” still means what it’s always meant: If your cheap enough to buy it, you get what you deserve.

Here’s what I learned about the community of machine tool builders here:
- it’s diverse, with at least one player serving every market niche – from high precision to low; from high volume to low.
- it’s broad-based, with each company offering a full line in its niche.
- their machines are getting better and better. Taiwan’s design benchmark is Japan. In one case, a leading Japanese machine-tool builder is reselling Taiwan-made Chevalier machines to one of the world’s most demanding customers: Toyota.
- they build to customer specifications – probably more than just about any other machine-tool region of the world (possible exception being the specialized high-end machines of Switzerland).
- they have a better reputation and better market share in virtually every part of the world than they do in the United States.

Taiwan’s machine tool builders, as a generalization, haven’t yet figured out the American market. But they’ve been busy selling thousands of machines into the next countries most likely to come after U.S. jobs: Poland, Czech Republic, Turkey, South Africa, India.
And the task where they have the most work to do here isn’t building machines that we want and need. It’s how to market to Americans, and how to build a dealership system that serves everyone well. (There are, in fact, a good number of such dealers whose best attribute is customer service; but finding U.S. representation was the most common need I heard from the vendors I met).
Much of the equipment I saw today would fit better in mid-size job shops than anywhere else. It’s designed for easy set-up, low maintenance, high reliability and low cost. These are machines that put power over features. Their flexibility is what you make of it.
But some of it’s getting downright sophisticated. That snarky line you hear from time to time – “I wouldn’t want to fly on an airplane with parts cut on one of those…” – doesn’t apply: A good number of the jet engines made in the United States are, in fact, built with parts cut on Equiptop machines from Taiwan.
And some of the ideas are just clever – like Eyan’s 3-axis CNC sawblade sharpener. It’s designed to be more durable and precise than the usual 2-axis models, and less expensive than the large 4-axis sharpeners. It’s got a footprint the size of the ottoman in your TV room, and its rounded shape makes you want to pat it on the head whenever you walk by. There are a lot of WeldingWeb members who would probably like to have such a unit -- or its lookalike drill sharpener -- in the corner of their shop.

Tomorrow I’m driving two hours to the south, to Taichung – the center of Taiwan’s machine tool industry. I’ll see the manufacturing facilities and get a better sense of just how good these machines are from the inside.
But based on the trade show floor, I was impressed. You would have been, too.

[Bob at WeldingMag]

Thursday brought many meetings with machine tool builders, and most of those observations are probably not relevant here. But I did tour 4 different manufacturing plants and found it interesting.

Of the 4, the most successful was the oldest and the lowest-tech. It was a fully integrated company that has its own foundry for castings; that produces its own spindles; that leads Taiwan in domestic production of machines; and that offered some of the most impressive technical solutions I've evern seen.

The other three had all just moved into brand-new facilities within the past 2 months; two of them were literally still moving in. Their manufacturing plants are all air-conditioned -- which is expensive here, but important for building machines with high levels of precsion. Everyone was eager and proud to provide tours of these modern, wide-open facilities.

I wouldn't want to be a truck driver here. Even the largest companies are located on lanes, which are located off alleys, which are located off streets. Getting in and out must be a nightmare.

In the machine tool business, it's typical to have lead-time of 3-4 months, because most tools are made to order. I had the thought that it must actually 1-2 months for build the machine, and another 1-2 months to get it out of the driveway.

I did watch them load a new machine tool, all crated up for export, onto the back of a truck. On the side of the crate, the familiar phrase was stamped in very big letters: Made in Taiwan.

I had a sudden flash of clarity for what that phrase must mean to the people who work in factories in Taiwan. At the trade show opening the other day, a dignitary stated that Taiwan has only 0.4% of the world's population, but in manufactured output it always ranks among the top 10 nations of the world.

All my life, that phrase has held a negative connotation for me. Not necessarily low-quality goods, but certainly a compromise -- buying something not quite good enough or important enough for us to make ourselves.

But here, in Taiwan, among the Taiwanese people, I understand what it means: it is a source of pride.

[scott brunsdon]

The old order is changing. The next ten years will some pretty big shifts in economic power and relevance.
I wonder how many western workers have the pride of those Taiwanese. It's an important element in the process.
I've enjoyed reading your detailed observations.
Scott

[Bob at WeldingMag]

Scott,
It's not changing only because of us. In fact, I'm hesitant to generalize too much about American pride one way or the other. It's also changing because the Taiwanese are changing. Read on...

[Bob at WeldingMag]

I’m in the Encounter Lounge at LAX; it’s the retro space-age structure you see whenever a TV show needs to show an image of the airport. I’m having the first honest martini in a week; as much as I enjoyed Taiwan, they don’t know how to mix a dry cocktail.
It’s late Friday night in the United States – about the same time it was in Taiwan when I stepped on my flight home 14 hours ago.
Taking a redeye out of Taipei made for a long day. I started the morning in Taichung with several more meetings among machine tool builders. I returned to Taipei in the afternoon – a 2-hour drive – for a few more scheduled visits at the trade show, and then I departed very much in the mood for a long nap.
As an oddity of long-distance travel to the East, I get to take 2 redeyes in the same trip on the same day.
The leg from Taiwan to Los Angeles left Taiwan at just before midnight on Friday night. It flew more than 11 hours, crossed 9 time zones -- and the international dateline -- landing at 8:30 p.m. Friday evening. My flight to Cleveland departs at just after midnight.

Anyway...
There is an industrial conglomerate in Taichung called Fair Friend. It makes printed circuit boards, forklifts, machine tools and about a gazillion other things that I can’t remember. It's a structure that isn't so fashionable in the United States right now -- something about the tax laws and cost of captial.
Fair Friend was only founded in 1979 to distribute products made by Japan's Kobe Steel. It has become one of the largest, most successful industrial companies in Taiwan. It has thousands of acres of manufacturing capacity in Taiwan and China. It is building an industrial city in China that could become the largest machine tool center in the world.
I’d never heard of Fair Friend. I suspect few people in the United States have. But it is well known everywhere in the world except North and South America.
Fair Friend machine tools are already running in the United States, though under different brand names. Later this year, its own brand, Feeler, will begin to show up at shows and in proposals.
Learning about such a big company for the first time was a bit of a surprise. I read a lot; I have a natural interest about industrial titans. I should have known about this company.
It came as a startling reminder that the United States is not -- if it ever was -- the commercial center of the world.
Taiwan startups don’t, for the most part, try to capture the domestic market and then spread out. They begin with international aspirations.
In machine tools, the first stop always seems to be China – for a few reasons. China has the demand, it’s a familiar culture, and the language is shared and their history is intertwined.
Typically, that’s followed (in no particular order) by Korea, Vietnam, India and Turkey, Eastern Europe and Western Europe.
At some point, any company that gets this far will have signed an agent or some dealers in the United States. But they don’t seem to put much emphasis on those relationships. The equipment sold here ends up being sold under a different name. In terms of earnings, it’s just frosting.
That really isn’t a surprise. If you can make a lot of money selling hundreds of high-volume production machines to China, why break a sweat learning how to sell a few specialty machines in the United States?
The US is, as we all know too well, a place to sell machines one or two at a time – to small manufacturers and job shops.
Is this the reason Taiwan machines have such small presence here?
Perhaps. But I don't think it's the only reason. Geographically, the U.S. and Taiwan are about as far away as you can get. If you get any farther, you'd be closer.
The business cultures are equally distant from each other. Doing business in the United States brings a lot of prestige. But to fail there would be an embarrassing loss of face. And it's unfamiliar enough that failure is possible -- especially in a high-touch, personalized industry like machine tools.
Few in Taiwan will acknowledge that this might intimidate them.
But I no longer believe that Taiwan’s low penetration of the U.S. machine tool market is due to the quality of the machines they build – as is the widespread perceptoin.
I think Taiwan’s builders are engaged in productive procrastination. They're making so much money elsewhere, it's easy to put off the risky process of learning to do the same here.
That won’t last forever. More and more of Taiwan’s builders are getting tired of playing the price game. Consistently serving the role of low-cost provider is playing havoc on profit margins in an industry already known for thin margins.
They’re starting to talk like American businesses – “We don’t want to be the lowest price; we want to be the best solution…” They’re not all very convincing yet; most can’t resist the temptation to add the phrase “…at a low price.”
But it won’t be long before more companies embrace the philosophy of Fair Friend: Do both. Compete on price in low-end products, and develop high-end products that provide high-technology at high margins. For instance, Fair Friend just acquired a line of laser drills for manufacturing printed circuit boards that work 100x faster than the previous generation of machines. These will sell at a premium.
There’s one more factor that seems to come into play. Most of the machine tool companies in Taiwan are between 15 and 50 years old. The founding generation, conservative in the way it does business, is moving aside for the next generation -- many of them educated in the West.
This younger generation is more flexible in its approach to partnering, marketing and doing business.
Perhaps the United States is not the gateway to the world. But Taiwan’s machine tool builders have already gone to school on international business. They’ve gotten good grades.
Now, as they seek to build margins, the United States is graduate school.

[Sandy]

They’ve gone a step farther -- outsourcing production to Indonesia and Sudan, where labor costs less.

:D :D :D Gotta love it. So now if I were to buy something supposedly made in China, I can't even rely on it being made in China! ;)

[scott brunsdon]

I had heard of Fair Friend. I remember ages ago reading about how its output and export revenue compared to that of some countries.
It's going to be really interesting when Asian manufacturers start offering a range of products at various price points. I can understand how tired they are of being perceived of as only offering low end products. The only edge local manufacturers may have will be service, and most will have to lift their game there.
Asian businessmen are very tough. So are Indian businessmen. Think about it: to be successful in a country with over one billion people, you have to be pretty savvy.
Isn't it interesting that breaking into the western markets is now aspired to more for its kudos than actual returns. We're becoming irrelevant, guys. Australia is still going through a boom period. It's been going for years. Our federal government just announced a fortnight ago they have no debt. It's all due to the resources market. We're digging huge holes and sending raw materials up to Asia.
Interesting times.
Scott

[Bob at WeldingMag]

The optimism in Taiwan is palpable. And from reading the international newspapers while I was there, it's the same all over Asia. There is simply an assumption that everything is going to continue going well, and an assumption that things are going well because it's been earned.

I contrast that to talk of optimism in the United States. The people who most often say "I'm optimistic" are those in tough spots -- the president, CEOs of manufacturing companies, carmakers...

I'm not saying they AREN'T optimistic. I'm saying it's a different flavor of optimism. Here in the States, it's optimism that comes from the mind. We work hard, we are smart, we do things that ought to result in success, therefore we have reason to be optimistic.

In Asia it's optimism that comes from the heart. Everything seems to be aligned, everyone feels good, everyone works hard, therefore there is every resaon to be optimistic.

[scott brunsdon]

I suspect the Asians are grateful that they don't have oil. It's meant they have been largely left alone. There was that bit of political meddling in the 70s in Vietnam which they're still recovering from, but the rest of Asia has pretty much been left to its own devices. Their resources are people.
Scott
bet you had some great meals, Bob.

[Bob at WeldingMag]

My one request to my hosts before each meal: Please ask them to cut the head off.
Seriously, it was never an issue. I had a lot of wonderful food (and one or two dishes that the best I can say is I followed my mother's advice: try it once).

[scott brunsdon]

My one request to my hosts before each meal: Please ask them to cut the head off.

Yes, it can be disconcerting when the eyes are staring up at you are in the head of an animal that in another country could be either be a family pet or vermin.

How do you think what you learned in Asia will change the way you run your business?

[Bob at WeldingMag]

How do you think what you learned in Asia will change the way you run your business?

The most important reminder is how isolated the United States is from the rest of the world. We're busy exporting our culture, our icons and our consumer tastes. But, by-and-large, we are isolationist. We as a people tend to stay within our borders and relish the shelter provided by 3,000+ miles of ocean in either direction.

When you run a business in the United States, you think in terms of the domestic market first and, if all goes well, expansion to other markets. That's because the U.S. is so big and so rich.

Our counterparts in other countries start businesses by thinking international. They they have to export to survive; their domestic market just isn't big enough.

As a result, the rest of the world has a leg up on the United States when it comes to doing global business. We're just waking up to the fact that all markets are now global; it's been business-as-usual for everyone else for years.

No wonder U.S. manufacturers struggle.

[scott brunsdon]

The most important reminder is how isolated the United States is from the rest of the world. We're busy exporting our culture, our icons and our consumer tastes. But, by-and-large, we are isolationist. We as a people tend to stay within our borders and relish the shelter provided by 3,000+ miles of ocean in either direction.

Yes, there is something in the fact that the most travelled Americans tend to travel in large grey ships and carry weapons. The average American is inward looking because the wider world has been largely irrelevant to America - apart from its involvement in the odd war. We tend to be outward looking because we're more dependent on the world. The mistake of many here is to look to the western world - America and the UK - whereas it's Asia above us that is more relevant.

[Roy Hodges]

Right, you need to look to Indoneisa,India, and FRANCE for guidance .

[scott brunsdon]

Guidance is something entirely different.

Indonesia and India are very relevant to us because they're large and powerful neighbours. Indonesia can be a bit cantankerous, too.

We'd get some good food ideas from France, but not much else.

Scott

[IH 392]

Guidance is something entirely different.

Indonesia and India are very relevant to us because they're large and powerful neighbours. Indonesia can be a bit cantankerous, too.

We'd get some good food ideas from France, but not much else.

Scott

as far as im concerned, france and all their "issues" may implode with uninhibited grace in a smoldering blaze of ashes

[Bob at WeldingMag]

I spent the first 40 years of my life very comfortable with the idea of never leaving the United States (except for when I learned to drink at the age of 16 on a trip to Scott's part of the world with a musical youth organization.)

But my job has forced me overseas. And what I've learned is that the American view of the world, and of how things work, is very different from the view in any other part of the world.

In Europe and Asia, people travel byond their national borders far more frequently and fluidly than Americans do. We CAN do it; but as a generalization we, as a population, seem very satisfied to live life within our borders. Maybe that's part of why DisneyWorld is so fantastically successful: You can go to Epcot to simulate a trip around the world (or at least around the world's gift shops) without ever sacrificing the comfort of your own world view.

In any case, as a result of this difference, people in other parts of the world have internalized the fact that other valid perspectives exist. They grow comfortable with the idea that the French, the Chinese, the Aussies, the Japanese, the Indians, the Indonesians, the Americans, etc. simply don't agree on why things are or how they should be. And they don't HAVE to agree, but they recognize the importance of respecting those other views.

That's what I've learned from traveling, and it's what has made me interested in traveling more.

As for France, from an American perspective I might feel that there isn't much to like beyond the wine and the Freedom Fries. But I don't know the French from the French perspective, and I feel unqualified to judge them, their politics or their world view.

[scott brunsdon]

as far as im concerned, france and all their "issues" may implode with uninhibited grace in a smoldering blaze of ashes

Wow, what on earth have France done? I've always found them pretty harmless. They can be a bit up themselves and make a bit of noise every now and then, but it's just noise. It's a great place to visit - provided they don't think you're English.

India is the interesting one. In ten years time, it's predicted their economy will be the 3rd largest in the world. They also currently have the 4th largest army/navy. And they've got a population of over one billion people.
I bet their army has no trouble getting recruits. At least people in the army get fed. The only thing holding them back would probably be the fact they don't have enough ships or guns.

So it's going to be interesting when that economy of their really winds up and that army increases in size, skill and level of equipment. I'd hate to be Pakistan.

Thankfully, the Indians aren't terribly aggressive. They do, however, look with envy at the lifestyle of the west.

Here's an interesting fact: Did you know there are over 200,000 Indian millionaires in America?

[Roy Hodges]

in #21, i was being SARCASTIC. Actually, i wish the U.S. would start being totally Nationalistic, and ISOLATIONIST , totally ! No foreign trade ,etc. Totally self sufficient , mind our own business , NObody elses , tell them to forget foreign aid , we'll pay our way , you pay yours. we won't meddle in your affairs, - don't come bothering us. Close our borders, both ways . IN & out . do that for say 4 years , see what the rest of the world says then .
And , bring home ALL our military troops ,to our states & American territories, not intervene in anything ,unless we are attacked.

[Bob at WeldingMag]

Hmmmm.
I think I'm speechless. ;)

[scott brunsdon]

Bob (and Moderators) you'll be surprised but pleased that I'm speechless, too.

[Bob at WeldingMag]

Always pleased to hear that, Scott. ;)
Just kidding, really. I enjoy your posts.

[scott brunsdon]

I reckon if I'd started on a response to that post I'd still be writing.

[scott brunsdon]

as far as im concerned, france and all their "issues" may implode with uninhibited grace in a smoldering blaze of ashes

I've just worked out what France might have done that was so offensive - they introduced the metric system of measurements.

[Bob at WeldingMag]

I thought it was introducing snails to the diet.

[scott brunsdon]

Yes, you could be right. Though the French themselves do actually eat snails. They're okay, but not great.
I've always thought the fondue was a gag played on the rest of the world by the Swiss in the 70s. I can picture them chuckling away as they imagined millions of people cooking soggy food at their tables in badly designed theme restaurants. I bet they didn't actually use them in Switzerland.

Regarding the metric system, you Americans of course got the French back by populating the world with computers that change the spelling if millimetre, litre etc.

[Kim at WDF]

Snails are an inglorious way of adding protein to a serving of melted garlic butter and slices of bread -- all of which is washed down with some wine. The last part makes up for the rest. :D

[alan waters]

BOB, I have long admired the Acer brand or mills and lathes made in Taiwan. Did you see anything of this brand during your stay?