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Andybot
05-23-2011, 06:06 PM
Hi,
im new to welding and got myself a small ac arc welder ( 40-80 amps, 115 v) to learn on.
I have been practising running some beads on some scrap metal with 1/16" E6013 rod.

Is this a good rod to begin learning with or should i try something else?

The beads i do dont have much penetration and are more like little balls of metal with slag between them.

Im using the lowest , 40A setting, on the machine im using. I clean up the metal before using it but it seems to work the same if i leave the metal tarnished.

My question is what rod should i try first to make things easier to begin with? And what is the cause of my bead being balls of metal and not being a continuous bead. (my lack of skill aside)

Thank you in advance to any responders.

ANdy

Rick V
05-23-2011, 06:33 PM
Hi Andy,
Welcome to the The WeldingWeb.

It's quite difficult to work with small diameter rods at low amperage.
e.g like your 1/16 inch stick electode at 40 amps
I think you would be better off trying 5/64 inch at 60-80 amps or 3/32 inch.at 80 amps.
6013 is a good rod to begin with.

The most common beginner mistake it to keep too long an arc.
You might want to read my posting, "Learning to Stick Weld" -
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=44592

There are other posts that you can search for that will help you.
Good Luck

boatbod
05-23-2011, 07:01 PM
6013 isn't going to give you much penetration, especially with such low amperage. If you want to dig a little deeper try some 6010/6011. For nice smooth beads with medium penetration try 7018, but note that you'll need to turn the amps up a bit compared to equivalent sized 60xx rods.

Andybot
05-23-2011, 08:11 PM
Thx both for your replies. And Rick thx for the link I will read that and get some thicker rods, ill leave the thinner ones till i have more experience.
Andy

snoeproe
05-23-2011, 08:51 PM
With your small 80 amp ac welder, you are limited to 3/32 rods and no larger.
6011 will run on your ac welder and have good penetration. 6010 will not run on your ac welder, you need dc weld current for 6010.
If you want to run 7018, you will have to get 7018 ac rods. I like to run 3/32 7018 at around 90 amps so your small 80 amp machine may struggle with 3/32 7018 and it will be maxed out.
7014 will run decent on ac weld current and is another good learner rod that's easy to use.

TxRedneck
05-23-2011, 09:49 PM
forget the 110 v get either an old venerable lincoln ac 225 or miller t-bolt both have an ac/dc counter part which is even better. For jobs around the farm I use 6011 1/8 unless its too thin. I will use either a 3/32 or torch if I cant do it 1/8 6011. If its high strength or tough to weld like t1 or something I use 1/8 7018. At work in my welding shop I use dual shield flux core, .045 and 1/16 or .035 hardwire for rails. In the field its 7018 all the way, 1/8in Good luck!
CHRIS

Kelvin
05-24-2011, 06:29 AM
I hate 6013 ... get you some 6011 and learn to run it.

jpump5
05-24-2011, 06:57 AM
I was playing with a 115v. welder at a buddies house the other day (with 1/16 6013) and it was really
hard to weld with. 3/32 rod was even worse.After using that,my thunderbolt welds like a dream!
If you really want to learn to weld,get a 240v. machine.As said above,an a.c./d.c. model is even better.

AndyA
05-24-2011, 08:57 AM
The AC225 machines can be found used for around $100. You can buy them new for around $260. The only downside to that machine is you'll need a 50amp breaker and suitable wire and plug. If you're serious about welding I'd kick in the extra money and get a DC capable machine. If you're not sure about welding, then get a used AC225. You can probably resell it for the same as you paid for it.

Edit: Where are you located? You might find someone in your area that will let you use their machine and give you some pointers. 30 minutes of having someone look over your shoulder and give you pointers will be worth hours and hours of time spent struggling by yourself.

Andybot
05-24-2011, 02:36 PM
Thx to all the respondents. Im stuck with a 115v welder as i dont have access to 240v and im running my welder with a 3000w generator so i have an upper limit on power output. Im sure their is probably an engine run welder that would suit my needs but till then im stuck with my portable.

Im stuck till i get some bigger rods to.
Thx All

Andybot
05-24-2011, 02:41 PM
Oh, im located in Alberta, Canada. I have tried finding someone to teach me a thing or too but to no avail. I have no timeline so im happy to teach myself, well with your guys help.
Andy

Donald Branscom
05-24-2011, 02:41 PM
I hate 6013 ... get you some 6011 and learn to run it.

6013 is DC preferred. It is a all position medium penetration rod.
6010 can be run on AC or DC.

Donald Branscom
05-24-2011, 02:42 PM
Hi,
im new to welding and got myself a small ac arc welder ( 40-80 amps, 115 v) to learn on.
I have been practising running some beads on some scrap metal with 1/16" E6013 rod.

Is this a good rod to begin learning with or should i try something else?

The beads i do dont have much penetration and are more like little balls of metal with slag between them.

Im using the lowest , 40A setting, on the machine im using. I clean up the metal before using it but it seems to work the same if i leave the metal tarnished.

My question is what rod should i try first to make things easier to begin with? And what is the cause of my bead being balls of metal and not being a continuous bead. (my lack of skill aside)

Thank you in advance to any responders.

ANdy

Go to Ebay and buy a Hobart pocket welding guide. You are going to need it.
It will give the heat range,amp settings and preferences and uses of different welding electrodes.
OR take a welding class.

Welding_Swede
05-24-2011, 03:17 PM
6013 is DC preferred. It is a all position medium penetration rod.
6010 can be run on AC or DC.

Sorry to correct the CWI with 44 years experience but lets get this beginner some correct info.

E6010 is not an AC rod. It is specifically a DC Reverse Polarity (or DCEP if you prefer) rod.

Perhaps Mr. Branscom was thinking about E6011 wich will work well with AC or DC. (He must have lost his copy of the Hobart Pocket Welding guide.)


E

Andybot
05-24-2011, 04:03 PM
Nice Volvo welding_swede i applaud you choice of vehicle.
Andy

Welding_Swede
05-24-2011, 05:59 PM
Thanks Andy,

You are an outstanding judge of automobile quality! :D

Eric

Andybot
05-24-2011, 07:36 PM
Finally the recognition i so deserve.
Andy

farmer37
05-26-2011, 05:37 AM
Bigger rods wont run on a baby welder.7018 or 6010 wont run either.You are getting bum info on here.An 80 amp welder is the worst possible learning welder.Your generator has to put out 2400 watts to run a baby welder.

Andybot
05-26-2011, 08:35 PM
I guess the question on my mind is who has an 80 amp " baby welder" that they learned on or get good results with?
Also thx again for all the replies.
Andy

Rizz01
06-02-2011, 02:08 AM
You need to face the facts:
You're NOT gonna get good results welding with that welder.
Now, put that thing to good use and use it as a DOORSTOP......
Get yourself a DC machine and you'll do some real nice welding..

farmer37
06-02-2011, 05:42 AM
I have been welding sine the mid 50s.I have tried small welders over the years.I have a Magic Wand suit case welder that my Dad found many years ago.It can do hot carbon soldering and welding.Hard to weld with.I fixed up a small welder, gave it to a friend.It can weld but not very well.If you read the book Performance Welding the Auther says this about mig welding.If you start off welding with a low powered machine you will have a hard time and you will be soured against welding.If you dont have AC power buy a small welding generator that can supply 120 volts AC when its not welding.I have worked in shops that had welders,none used a baby welder.I still use the first welder My dad bought in the mid 50s.I bought a new Lincoln 225 AC welder when I needed more than 150 amps.You can still buy the same Lincoln welder For 270.00 new here or used for 100 bucks..The Lincoln will go down to 40 amps if you insist on using low power.I rarely weld under the 100 amp setting.

Andybot
06-02-2011, 01:44 PM
Thx for all in the info and advice. I am going to put together a battery welding machine as it makes more sense for me right now.
A

GBM
06-02-2011, 02:57 PM
Andy,
I am not in the class with the welders you have already heard from.. but I heard something yesterday which you might want to try. I was talking to a former Marine who had been an underwater welder... ( 20 years )..
He was saying that with his 110 mig he could do just as good a job welding as I can with my Weldanpower 225 because when he needs to he uses his oxy-acet rig to preheat with... I don't know if that is true... but since you are currently limited by your machinery power you might want to try it....

Andybot
06-02-2011, 03:59 PM
Thx GBM,
thats very interesting and makes alot of sense to me. When i get the chance i will try this out.....i donty even know what mig is yet but im sure some of the same ideas come into play with stick.
A

rankrank1
06-02-2011, 10:10 PM
Thx for all in the info and advice. I am going to put together a battery welding machine as it makes more sense for me right now.
A

Unless you have access to 3 batteries this is not as cheap as you think. Automotive batteries have drastically went up in price here in the states lately. Pretty much any decent 12 volt battery is $95-$100. So your looking at $300 bucks and you have something that is not really easilly adjustable for welding. Granted there are battery powered suitcase welders that are adjustable but they are pricey - and will be pricey all over again when the batteries need replaced in 5 years or so.

If you have multiple old tractors sitting around you could easily borrow batteries from them. I guess you could borrow batteries from cars too, but I would not do this on modern cars since everytime you pull a battery from a modern car it takes a while for everything in the automotive computer to reset. You are burning lots of extra gas in base timing while the computer relearns itself.

If I were you, I would consider selling your current welder and picking up something like the dual voltage Longetivity which has 100amp on 120 volt /140 amp on 240 volt welder for $199. Granted it is only 20 amps more than your current 80 amp welder on the 120 volt input power, but the Longetivity will be DC output where your current welder is AC output. DC output is roughly 15% more efficient than AC output so it would be like your current welder if it could go up to 115 amps or so. Plus you have the option of even more power if you happen to be near a 240 volt power source. If I lived in a rental house, an apartment, or anywhere where space and portability was desired in a stick welder then I would look long and hard at this unit.

For the record, I am not pushing the Longetivity as I have never owned one. I am only mentioning it since you are limited to 120 volt input power. Another alternative option would be the Miller Maxstars or the Thermal Arc Inverters but they are 4 times more expensive or more. If you had access to 240 volts, then I would strongly recommend a Lincoln, Miller, or Hobart buzzbox which can be purchased used for like $100 and will last you the rest of your life, your kids life, and possibly even your grandkids life. Lots of value in a cheap 240 volt buzzbox as they will do more than weld alone. (i.e. they can also cut metal and pierce holes and instensely heat metal for bending and brazing)

nadogail
06-03-2011, 12:27 AM
Andybot, I realize you are trying to learn welding on your own. If you can download this; http://www.mckaymarine.com.au/Downloads/Navy%20Welding%20Manual.pdf (It is a copy of the US Navy Welding Manual) You may find this informative and helpful.

Andybot
06-03-2011, 04:36 PM
Thx again, very helpful posts.
Im a mechanic so putting together a battery system would be free for me, i even picked up a old forney 225 arc welder at the dump than i can use as an arc stabilizer and everything else i have on hand.

Im lucky in that it gets to minus 50 here in the winter so having a jumper battery in every pocket and two in each car is the norm for me. Untill i counted i didnt realize how many i had.

I can understand how people may be a little put of by the results they get with the wrong equipment for the right job, but im usto that kid of thing and building tools i cant afford is the norm.

The free advice is the part that makes it all possible and im very gratefull.

Shorting a battery across metal to join it together is just so appealing to me.
I will be safe though.
A

rankrank1
06-03-2011, 08:03 PM
You are welcome. I am actually the one that posted the Youtube links in one of your other threads. Since you have a readily available source of auto batteries then it may work out for you. Just thought I would give another viable option which pretty much concludes all of my ideas except one.

If you decide to keep your current welder then I think you should try some 5/64 diameter rods. I have a small 50 amp 115 volt welder that I like to play with sometimes - it was a freebie. I actually like the 5/64 rods better than the smaller 1/16 rods (1/16 = to 4/64). The 1/16 rods are like trying to weld with a flimsy spaghetti noodle where the 5/64 have enough stiffness to control better. Only downside is 5/64 is hard to find and is usually only available in 6013 plus it costs more than similar 3/32 rods do. That said,sometimes you just have to do what you have to do if limited on power. Another tip that I have used is to cut 1/16 rods in half if I just must use them - not as flimsy when only half as long.

If you only do repairs like I do then the extra cost for 5/64 rods is really pretty small, where it might be much larger consideration if building large complex projects from scratch.

I only wish I had known how to weld with batteries when I was younger - there is so many things I could have fixed better 30 years ago, but no internet back then.... My dad always had multiple tractors around so borrowing batteries would have been easy back then and having the capabilty to weld (even crudely) would have made repairing my dad's junk so much easier. Ah shucks enough reminiscing.

Andybot
06-03-2011, 08:51 PM
I do intend on buying larger rods and trying those with my little welder, but like you said 5/64 is hard to find, I have no problem experimenting though. This is still fun for me.

I cant wait to look at those videos, im on dialup here so i have to do it from work and the connection from work is down. I have alot to watch when its back up.

Im looking at this just to do some repairs to, the cost of setting up a full welding outfit would be a total waste and it would probably sit 99 % of the time so batteries would be perfect....everything can go back to its original use except the giant inductor which is cool looking and looks like Tesla is over for tea.

I really have to get to the store and get some rods.

I have a question about shaded lenses and welding but it can wait im coming of a night shift.

A

Jay O
06-04-2011, 03:24 PM
I think you should give your little welder to an enemy and give up on the battery powered welder. The biggest obstacle in developing the battery powered welder that RickV had was his lack of arc welding skills and since your just learning yourself, how are you going to know if your heading in the right direction. Also the available run time will probably be short and since you are going to be learning you'll need the most run time as possible instead of waiting for a charge.

You should see if you can get any money for the Forney welder and save up and get either an inverter from Miller or Themal Arc. Weighing in at about 15 lbs these machines will run 3/32 rod 7018 rod with no problems on 110v and you still have the 220v option open to you. If you develop your skills, this will allow you to weld down to 1/8" material and if you get the TA unit you have lift-start tig option for thinner also. Learning to weld with any rod thinner then 3/32" makes things very difficult and then you have to learn again to weld with bigger rod. You stated that it would be a waste to spend the money on equipment that would sit 99% of the time but the little inverters will also run off a 100 ft extension cord on 110v and I've run mine off of 200 ft of ext. cord on 220v with no problems.

PapaLion
06-04-2011, 04:13 PM
The cheapest way to learn to weld is to sign up at the local Jr College for the beginners stick welding class, one semester. They supply good welders for you to use, safe instruction and plenty of rods and steel to screw up... I mean work with:waving:
Age is not a factor, young or old U can get some help. Oh and it is FUN!:jester::drinkup::gunsfirin

U supply the few $ for the course, a good attitude. after that you'll know exactly what drection U wish to pursue. Step two is to read here on WW anytime u can and learn from these guys, they know their stuff. Finally, throw yourself at the mercy of an experienced welder, keep your yap shut and do whatever he will let you do. The satisfaction of saying I can safely weld steel and do it well, is worth the path.