Wiring Mig cord to dryer outlet

[Moth]

I apologize if this has been asked before. The dryer outlet in our house is a four-prong variety. The exntension cord I want to assemble will connect to the 3-prongs of my MIG Pak 15.
Would someone generously tell me how the leads should match up? I labelled the prongs in the pictures A,B,C / 1,2,3,4.

[MrK4Steamer]

Moth,

I am not an electrician but have done a quite a bit of wiring in my home. I looked at a reference book to understand the receptacle/plugs you have shown. In a nutshell, neither the voltage or current ratings match between the dryer or the extension cord you are trying to make. I would strongly suggest that you hire an electrician to come in and help you with this project. You do not want to screw this up as you can electrocute yourself and/or cause a house fire. With that said, here is the breakdown of the photos you have posted:

Dryer 4p Male Plug: 1=phase "Y", 3=phase "X", 2="White" or common, 4=ground
This is rated at 30 amps, 125/250v. Assuming 250v service, you can get 250v between 1 and 3. You can get 125v between 1 and 2, or 3 and 2. This plug would normally plug into a 14-30R receptacle which is "30A 125/250v Grounding"

Welder 3p Female End: A="White" or common, B=125v phase, C=ground
This is a 5-50R receptacle rated 50 amps, 125v.

I am a little surprised that your welder has this type of power requirements... 50 amps at 125v. Welders generally require 50amps at 250V. If your welder is 50amps at 250v, then you have the wrong type receptacle. What you need is a 6-50R receptacle rated 50amps, 250v. The 5-50R and the 6-50R look almost alike except for one important difference... that is.... the wide and the narrow blades are swapped. On the 6-50R, the wide blade is on the right (ground pin on bottom as in your picture), and the narrow blade is on the left.

Again, I would suggest you pay an electrician to come over and do this work for you.

-Dan

[Sandy]

Hello Moth :)

I can't really see your ABC pic at all. Sorry guy. I should remember from previous threads but what's the input requirements of the Mig pac 15 anyway? Not a lot is it? And then the other thing would be to verify what the real capacity of that dryer circuit is. Breaker, wire and the whole shebang.

In the mean time did you look at this thread?

http://www.weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=5616

[MAC702]

The Mig Pak 15 (basically an SP-175T) requires 230V input at 20A. 240V household voltage is fine. Lincoln recommends a 40A fuse/breaker, but your 30A will be fine.

Your second picture looks correct (though I can't see the scale) but DOES IT say 125V? If it does, it's wrong.

The thread that Sandy linked is for you. Instead of a NEMA 14-50R receptacle in the wall, you have a NEMA 14-30R, but the process is the same. Use the two hots in any order (the two straight blades) and the ground (the round slot.) You don't even need the prong that plugs into the top L-shaped neutral slot. You only need three wires in your adaptor. The correct receptacle for your machine is a NEMA 6-50R.

[Moth]

Sorry - I think I assume too much. I had noticed before, from perusing the forums, that many of you seemed already familiar with just about any equipment that got mentioned. Maybe "Mig Pak 15" is just how Lincoln designates my welder for the Canadian market? I should have provided more info for anyone trying to help that might not already know what I have. Hence: As I now know myself, my Mig Pak 15 is "basically an SP-175T" (thanks MAC702).

Here are the specs from the manual:

INPUT - SINGLE PHASE ONLY Rated Output
230V /60 HZ 20 Amps - rated output -- 30% duty cycle@130 Amps / 20V
208V /60 HZ 22 Amps - rated output -- 25% duty cycle@130 Amps / 20V

40 Amp fuse recommended at 20/22 Input Amps

Power Cord: 50 Amp, 250V, three prong plug (NEMA Type 6-50P)

Welding Current Range
Rated DC Output: 30 - 175 Amps

Maximum Open Circuit Voltage: 33

Thanks, DanWilley. Wow, was I ever setting myself up for trouble - I didn't even get the right receptacle (as you mentioned - fire, electrocution - I certainly would like to avoid these things).

Hi Sandy. Thanks. Yeah, sorry - my photo could be better. The circuit my dryer is on has a 30 Amp breaker.
I had looked at that thread, I just wasn't sure it was the same dryer receptacle, since it didn't appear to have the L-shaped opening, but then I won't be concerned with that lead anyway (Mac702, thanks again).

Well, I'm off to Home depot to exchange the NEMA 5-50R for a 6-50R. I will have an electrician look at final setup before I plug anything in.

Again, many thanks to everyone, for the advise, and the sharp eyes.

[MAC702]

Maybe "Mig Pak 15" is just how Lincoln designates my welder for the Canadian market?

... I didn't even get the right receptacle (as you mentioned - fire, electrocution - I certainly would like to avoid these things).

... I will have an electrician look at final setup before I plug anything in.
Lincoln's 135A and 175A MIGs have several badges depending on the store that sells them. They have "Plus" models with variable voltage available at the welding supply stores, including those in Canada. Home Depot, Lowe's, and other stores which sell the "T" (tapped voltage versions, also available at welding supply stores) each have their own name for it.

The wrong receptacle (in this case) wouldn't have started a fire, it just wouldn't have fit.

Feel free to post pictures here with what you did, and we'll tell you how you did. Take your time when cutting through the jacket of the SOOW cord so as not to damage the insulation of the conductors inside. You can score it and bend it back to break through without going too far.

[Sandy]

Hi Sandy. Thanks. Yeah, sorry - my photo could be better. The circuit my dryer is on has a 30 Amp breaker.
I had looked at that thread, I just wasn't sure it was the same dryer receptacle, since it didn't appear to have the L-shaped opening, but then I won't be concerned with that lead anyway (Mac702, thanks again).

No biggy on the photo. Everybody else could see it apparently, so that just leaves me or the machine (computer). Surely my eyes aren't failing any:D .

My fault for not mentioning those subtle differences in the common (neutral) terminal. Since you don't use it I sort of mentally ignore the shape. Straight, L or squiggly, if you don't use it then I forget to include shape in the discussion. My bad. And regardless of what a dryer circuit is 95% of the time or what a dryer circuit should be by code I always like folks to physically take a look at the breakers, wire size and the soundness of the connections. But you did that already :) . So I'm sweating nuttin. The reason being is that some predecessor could have as easily wired his own dryer just as you are your welder. They may also have run 14/2 with ground and stubbed it in the same breaker lugs with the electric range. Now is as good a time as any to pick up on those things before getting deep into a trouble shooting mode.

Anyway, sounds like you are well on your way with a plenty good hookup so I'll quit rambling and back outta here.

[Moth]

Thanks fellas.

Mac702, I'll be careful cutting & stripping.

Sandy, I'm novice enough to not even notice the "125 V" stamped on that receptacle - how stunned is that? (for what it's worth, I can't make that out in the photo either). Caution, sometimes my own, and sometimes a gift extended to me by generous souls like yourself, is all that's kept my skin intact this many years.

All of your tips and warnings are very much appreciated.

[awright]

Here'a a question for MAC702:

Is there some restriction on the application of the standard 230 volt 50 amp electric range plug/receptacle to other uses? I'm referring to the three straight-blade connector with the two power blades angled about 40 degrees away from the third, straight, grounding blade.

Since it, as well as the NEMA 6-50, are both rated at 50 amps and appear to have about the same contact pressure and contact size, why don't we see more of the range plugs mounted on welder power cords? Is it legal to use the range plug/receptacle for purposes other than ranges? Is it a matter of popularity of the 6-50 with manufacturers or tradition, or what? (While I realize that many guys (in addition to me) use the range connectors, either directly or with adapters/extension cords, I'm still wondering if it is legal.

I do have 6-50 plugs on all my plug-in equipment, but the 6-50 hardware is much more expensive than the range plugs/receptacles, presumably as a result of the volume of production.

Always wondered about that.

awright

[MAC702]

Here'a a question for MAC702:

Is there some restriction on the application of the standard 230 volt 50 amp electric range plug/receptacle to other uses? I'm referring to the three straight-blade connector with the two power blades angled about 40 degrees away from the third, straight, grounding blade.

Since it, as well as the NEMA 6-50, are both rated at 50 amps and appear to have about the same contact pressure and contact size, why don't we see more of the range plugs mounted on welder power cords? Is it legal to use the range plug/receptacle for purposes other than ranges? Is it a matter of popularity of the 6-50 with manufacturers or tradition, or what? (While I realize that many guys (in addition to me) use the range connectors, either directly or with adapters/extension cords, I'm still wondering if it is legal.
Excellent question. The hardware in question is a NEMA 10-50. The "10" tells us that it is a 3-wire 240V, NON-GROUNDING device. That's where we have our problem. This is outdated hardware, now. For many years common 240V appliances like dryers and ranges were allowed to be 3-wire, NON-GROUNDING, and have their cases bonded to the neutral. It is safe to use a dedicated neutral for a ground, as when we plug our welders into these receptacles. Just remember never to use a ground as a neutral on purpose, as you know.

The NEMA 6-50 hardware is also a 3-wire, but the third is DESIGNED AS A GROUND ONLY, and never to be used as a neutral.

The new style of appliance hardware is the NEMA 14-50, just like the 4-wire 240V receptacle found on many engine-driven welding machines.

Summary:
NEMA 6: 3-wire, GROUNDING
NEMA 10: 3-wire, NON-GROUNDING
NEMA 14: 4-wire

[awright]

Thanks for the lucid explanation, MAC702. I'm working on absorbing the concepts you presented.

If I understand what you said, an appliance like a welder that does not use a connection from one hot to the third wire to supply 115 VAC to a receptacle, 115 volt fan, or other 115 volt device can/must use the 6-50 plug with the third wire connected to the chassis only in the appliance and to the earth ground, not the neutral bar at the main panel, correct? And, I presume, such an appliance could not derive power for a general use 115 VAC receptacle on the front panel internally from a tap on it's power transformer because no neutral connection back to the main panel is available, correct?

Now, in a 1920's apartment building I own, the minimal power to each apartment is via three wires in steel flexible conduit with the third wire used for neutral on the two 15-amp circuits and the electric range frame connected to the neutral. Is it legal for me to have added a fused, GFCI receptacle to the back of the range with the neutral of the receptacle connected to the neutral to the range to provide power to a refrigerator or other kitchen appliance? If legal, can it be a duplex receptacle or must it be a single receptacle?

Little brain-pickin going on, here.

Thanks.

awright

[MAC702]

If I understand what you said, an appliance like a welder that does not use a connection from one hot to the third wire to supply 115 VAC to a receptacle, 115 volt fan, or other 115 volt device can/must use the 6-50 plug with the third wire connected to the chassis only in the appliance and to the earth ground, not the neutral bar at the main panel, correct? And, I presume, such an appliance could not derive power for a general use 115 VAC receptacle on the front panel internally from a tap on it's power transformer because no neutral connection back to the main panel is available, correct?
A welder (or other appropriate 240V machine) does not HAVE to use the NEMA 6-50 standard, but they'd be smart to do so for compatibility. But they must use a standard that preserves the dedicated ground.

At the main panel (service entrance,) the neutral is itself bonded to earth ground, but you are correct that everywhere else, the ground of NEMA 6-50 devices must not be connected to neutral busses.

However, welding (and other) machines that are strictly 240V for input power CAN use a tap off its transformer to get 120V for auxiliary receptacles. In fact, this is how they HAVE to do it, because of the fact that they have no neutral to the input power. It's transformed INSTEAD of coming from the panel's neutral.

[MAC702]

Now, in a 1920's apartment building I own, the minimal power to each apartment is via three wires in steel flexible conduit with the third wire used for neutral on the two 15-amp circuits and the electric range frame connected to the neutral. Is it legal for me to have added a fused, GFCI receptacle to the back of the range with the neutral of the receptacle connected to the neutral to the range to provide power to a refrigerator or other kitchen appliance? If legal, can it be a duplex receptacle or must it be a single receptacle?
So is the steel conduit used for the grounding system? I recommend testing it to make sure it is secure and conductive through the complete system. Flexible steel conduits have a habit of losing their continuous grounding sometimes.

I see nothing unsafe in your added receptacle as long as it is properly fused to 15 or 20A, depending on the type. I see no reason why it can't be a duplex when properly fused, either. I can't give you a definitive answer on the legality, though. Not counting any local codes to which you may be subject, I'm not familiar with all the NEC Codes that may apply to that particular installation. But like I said, it is safe.

[Sandy]

Is it legal for me to have added a fused, GFCI receptacle to the back of the range with the neutral of the receptacle connected to the neutral to the range to provide power to a refrigerator or other kitchen appliance?

I'm wondering if it will work at all. And if so on a continuous basis. I'm guessing if you use the range the GFCI is going to trip?????????????????????

[MAC702]

As long as the hot and the neutral of the GFCI are wired correctly/normally, it will work fine. It won't be affected by upstream unbalanced loads.

[awright]

My reason for inquiring about single vs. duplex receptacle is that I understand that the code requires a "dedicated" circuit for a refrigerator. In fact, as I recall, the dedicated refrigerator circuit need not be on a GFCI, presumably because refrigerators cause nusiance tripping due to leakage, while other circuits in a kitchen must be on GFCIs.

While I do not know the definition of a dedicated circuit, it would seem to imply that if a refrigerator is plugged into a circuit, other appliances must not share the circuit.

awright

[MAC702]

A dedicated refrigerator receptacle can be a duplex if the appliance blocks the rest of the receptacle from being accessed. It does not need to be GFCI, and in fact, should not be unless you like rotten meat surprises when you get home from vacation.

I don't know if you'd have to worry about these codes with your underpowered 1920s' place. I'd find it hard to tell a guy he has to replace his main panel and service just so he can put in a dedicated refrigerator receptacle.

[dudela]

Hi all,

just a quick one: we were posted to Europe recently and took our Maytag 125V+125V dryer with us.

But, how do I wire the three prong, 30amp dryer wall outlet we brought with us to the European 240V home circuit, so the dryer runs properly on 240-250V?

Do I connect the third neutral prong intake (L-shaped, in profile view) on the wall outlet, plus ONE of the two 45-degree angled hot prongs?

Many thanks.

[awright]

NO, no, no! Do not try to connect a U.S. receptacle to European 240 volt power.

My guess is that you are screwed unless you are willing to buy a 220/110 step-down transformer. The transformer would have to be able to handle the current demanded by the motor and controls, but not the heating element and you would have to rewire the dryer internally. You may also have issues with the 50 Hz power frequency that you probably have there unless the motor is rated for 50/60 Hz.

Your dryer probably uses 115 volts for the motor and controls and 230 volts for the heater. Presumably turning the dryer drum slower will demand less power, which may keep you out of motor trouble. Remember also that if the dryer control runs on a timer motor, that will also run slower.

All in all, unless you want the challenge, I think you'd be better off to buy a European dryer.

awright

[Metalsmith]

To original question ...I just bought a dryer cord and a welder recepticle and combine the nuetral and ground ( white and green ).....never had a problem ...I use it when I go to someone home to do welding and they have a dryer in the garage...if youare worried about saftey..make sure your fire extingishers are full...never weld with out them ....saw a guy burn down a $50,000 mobile home, while repairing the frame...