powermax 45 consumables on a 30

[gordon stephenson]

Hi, Hope Jim Colt is around, Some body on a uk welding forum is saying his Powermax 30 consumables are not lasting very long and wonders if there is any advantage in using powermax 45 shielded consumables for a longer life, or will they even work at all.

[woi2ld]

lol , i just imagined jim with a cape that has the HT symbol on it lol

[DSW]

lol , i just imagined jim with a cape that has the HT symbol on it lol

Well at least you didn't imagine him in spandex tights and a mask!


I have no idea if the parts will interchange or not, but short consumable life makes me think that guy has either not got the parts installed properly, or he's got bad air, probably with too much water vapor in it.

I'll be curious to hear Jim's reply to this for several reasons. :laugh:

[LarryO]

lol , i just imagined jim with a cape that has the HT symbol on it lol

Man, you sniff too much paint dude. :D

[gordon stephenson]

Hi, DSW.
The parts must be interchangeable because the powermax 45 manual states that a 45 can use 30 consumables to get a slightly fine cut line. But I do tend to agree that he may not have a good dry air supply.

[jimcolt]

No tights....but I always wanted a cape.

The Powermax45 can use the Powermax30 consumables (the retaining cap, nozzle, electrode, swirl ring).....this allows for unshielded cutting at up to 30 amps....with a slightly narrower kerf width. Expect shorter consumable life than you will get with the 45 amp shielded parts...part of the shield technology advantage is consumable life.

I have never tried using the 45 amp shielded consumables in the Powermax30, but I have been told that they work pretty well. The only technical issue I see is that these consumables were designed for up to 45 amp operation, and the Powermax30 has a maximum output of only 30 amps....so there will be less energy density in the arc.

I would expect longer consumable life, but slower cut speeds and less thickness capacity on the 30 if the 45 amp Powermax45 parts were used. You will need all of the Powermax45 parts to make this work....shield, retaining cap, nozzle, electrode and swirl ring.

Jim Colt Hypertherm



Hi, DSW.
The parts must be interchangeable because the powermax 45 manual states that a 45 can use 30 consumables to get a slightly fine cut line. But I do tend to agree that he may not have a good dry air supply.

[gordon stephenson]

Thank you jim,
Can't tell you how great it is to Have access to someone as knowledgeable as yourself. that knows his product up,down and sideways,
Thanks again, will pass on your info to the chap concerned on the mig welding forum.
Best Regards Gordon.

[Eric106]

I'm very close to ordering a Powerxax 30 but still have a few questions. One of them is about using the 30 for gouging and so relates to the the discussion here.

I realize the power of the 30 is less than the 45 so gouging depth/width/speed will be reduced but there are no gouging consumables for the 30. How well would the 45 gouging consumables work with a 30? Would the nozzle flow rate be too high for the 30 or would the penetration just be less?

Conversely, if I took an old worn nozzle from the 30 and drilled out the opening so that it was concentric and smooth but oversized, would that make an effective gouge nozzle? If so, what hole diameter should I try? From what I have seen some gouge nozzles also have a counter sink in the opening which I could add as well? I could drill it out on a lathe to ensure concentricity.

I do not expect to do much gouging but removing welds to tear something apart without having to resort to the grinder would be very valuable. I have never used a plasma cutter before and so have been doing a lot of reading & research and for several reasons the 30 seems the best choice but I am curious about its ability to gouge. Thanks for any feedback.

-Eric

[jimcolt]

Just use a used 30 amp nozzle for gouging. For conventional gouging...such as removing welds...we simply don't feel the 30 amps is enough power....so gouging nozzles are not made for the 30. I have used the standard 30 amp parts and have successfully dismantled 3/8" wide elds....however if you ever used the gouging process on the 45 amp and larger units...you would agree that the 30 doesn't have enough juice. Gouging takes amps and arc volts....and you cannot get enough power from a 120 volt outlet to drive it adequately.

Jim Colt Hypertherm


I'm very close to ordering a Powerxax 30 but still have a few questions. One of them is about using the 30 for gouging and so relates to the the discussion here.

I realize the power of the 30 is less than the 45 so gouging depth/width/speed will be reduced but there are no gouging consumables for the 30. How well would the 45 gouging consumables work with a 30? Would the nozzle flow rate be too high for the 30 or would the penetration just be less?

Conversely, if I took an old worn nozzle from the 30 and drilled out the opening so that it was concentric and smooth but oversized, would that make an effective gouge nozzle? If so, what hole diameter should I try? From what I have seen some gouge nozzles also have a counter sink in the opening which I could add as well? I could drill it out on a lathe to ensure concentricity.

I do not expect to do much gouging but removing welds to tear something apart without having to resort to the grinder would be very valuable. I have never used a plasma cutter before and so have been doing a lot of reading & research and for several reasons the 30 seems the best choice but I am curious about its ability to gouge. Thanks for any feedback.

-Eric

[Rbeckett]

Thank you jim,
Can't tell you how great it is to Have access to someone as knowledgeable as yourself. that knows his product up,down and sideways,
Thanks again, will pass on your info to the chap concerned on the mig welding forum.
Best Regards Gordon.

Jim is definately the man for any question plasma related. It's great that we have access to such a knowledgable individual who so freely shares his knowledge on his equipment and assists others with their equipment also. HT hit a homer when he went to work for em way back when. Thaks Jim.
Bob

[Eric106]

Jim,

Thanks for such a quick reply. The plasma cutter I would like to get if it existed is a Powermax 45 that will run at 30 amps output off 120 volts or 45 amps off 220 volts.

I think the Powermax 30 will do 99% of everything I will ever need and so expect to purchase one in the next few weeks. However, I would pay a little extra now for the 45 if it could operate off 120 volt power at reduced capacity when needed. So my original question was motivated by wanting to understand what the limitations of getting the Powermax 30 compared to the 45 would be.

I am in the military and so move every few years. Most of the time I am renting so adding a 220 volt outlet is not always possible, sometimes but not always. So for me the ability to operate off 120 volt power trumps the desire for more capacity. Sometimes I have a garage and sometimes I don't. Additionally, I really like the portability that 120 volt operation provides. I have a Dewalt D55146 compressor (5.0 SCFM @ 90 PSI, 4.5 Gal Tank) which is a very portable wheeled model. Combined with the Powermax 30 I will have a very portable but still very capable system.

I also have a Miller Passport Plus which I just love. It's perfect for my situation and I can't say enough good things about it. If anyone is not familiar with it check it out. It also has an inverter based power supply but is designed such that it will operate at about 70% capacity on 120 volts at a reduced duty cycle or full power at higher duty cycle from 220 volt power. If this scheme was used on the Powermax 45 it would be ideal.

When I started contemplating a plasma cutter I was first looking at the Miller 375 Extreme. As I did more research I quickly found that Thermal Dynamics and Hypertherm were the two best regarded manufacturers. I was initial leaning more towards the Cutmaster 42 but continued research eventually lead me to favor Hyperthem -- both for their quality and their business practices. Reading back through many posts you have written over the last few years was more than a little influential in my decision to favor Hyperthem. There are few manufactures who are as openly and honestly involved in the community they market products to as Hyperthem is thanks to you. I only hope your company fully appreciates the good will you spread on their behalf and the sales that result from it.

Thanks again for your help.


-Eric

[mazarpay]

Hi all
I just joined this forum which is one of the best if not the best and of course as a result of the excellent information here, especially from Jim Colt I ordered my Powermax 45 a few hours ago.
With that said, I already have a question about the consumables.
I noticed companies on the web that are advertising genuine Hypertherm consumable kits that seem to be manufactured in India and I think China. Are these authorized manufactures and how can you make sure you are getting genuine Hypertherm parts when ordering on the internet?
Thank you in advance.
AZ

[jimcolt]

All of the Hypertherm consumables are manufactured in Hypertherm's plants in Hanover and Lebanon, NH, USA. There are quite a few knock-offs in packaging that looks very similar to Hypertherm's packaging...and are not recommended for use in Hypertherm torches.

The plasma process is a balancing act of high temperature physics....temperatures can easily exceed 25,000 degrees F at the arc. Consumable parts that are out of tolerance, or are redesigned so they can be manufactured at lower cost can cause overheating and eventual torch failures. Often, aftermarket consumables are less costly to purchase.....but do not last nearly as long and provide lesser cut quality. If you do the math....you will always find that the genuine consumables are lower cost per cut.

Hypertherm keps a close watch on aftermarket consumables in order to protect our "intellectual property" (key features that were invented and developed by Hypertherm engineering...and patent protected)....Hypertherm vigorously pursues those that infringe on our patented technology!

Best bet with any brand of plasma system is to use the consumables that were specifically designed for the torch. Saving a few percent off the purchase price will not turn out to be a long term benefit!

Jim Colt

[mazarpay]

Thanks Jim for the info.
My fear was to order something online thinking I was getting genuine parts but receiving some inferior aftermarket parts. I understand that probably purchasing from our local Central welding or Airgas dealers would be a safe bet.
is there a list of approved online stores or companies that we can trust with all of our spare parts?
Thank you very much
AZ

[jimcolt]

On the www.hypertherm.com website there is a "where to buy" tab that can locate all authorized Hypertherm dealers based on location.

All Hypertherm consumables come in Hypertherm packages and each individual part is laser marked with part number, a manufacturing code and either the name Hypertherm or an "H" also marked on the part.

The Chinese copies I have seen are in packages that look very similar to the Hypertherm packages...yet do have some different markings on them. It is not hard to tell them apart.


Jim Colt

[con_fuse9]

All of the Hypertherm consumables are manufactured in Hypertherm's plants in Hanover and Lebanon, NH, USA. There are quite a few knock-offs in packaging that looks very similar to Hypertherm's packaging...and are not recommended for use in Hypertherm torches.

<snip>

Jim Colt

BTW, going through Ebay, the knock-offs show up even if you put in the exact Hypertherm part number. Here's the kicker, if you factor in the shipping from China, the knock-offs were more expensive than the Hypertherm parts!

Hypertherm part:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hypertherm-Powermax-85-Electrodes-220842-5-Pack-/370453264886?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5640bc39f6
$33 for 5 ($3 shipping)

China part:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hypertherm-Max65-85-Electrode-220842-plasma-cutter-10pc-/200596113939?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb475ca13
$72.50 + $7 shipping.

There were some cheaper china parts but much higher on shipping to US.

Just to be clear, I like the fact that others are manufacturing consumables. I don't care if its for plasma cutter or ink jet printer. I think with _real_ (and fair) competition the consumer wins. The consumer can balance quality, availability and price. I just like the current pricing (see above) which makes it all a no-brainer.