frankensteining a sa200 w/ diesel motor

[ironlion]

i have an opportunity to get either a 3cyl or 4cyl KUBOTA motor (my choice) for free from some industrial lawn mowers and was thinking of coupling one to my '57 short hood just for giggles as the shorty ran until someone recently "liberated" the mag and carb as well as some other misc parts....so now i am on the fence whether to sink money into replacement parts or put in a free diesel motor. so my main question is what KUBOTA motors will jive with the shorty with little/no hassle? offhand i have no clue what models the 3/4cyl are as my buddy recently closed down his auto recycle yard of almost 50yrs and he stashed a few items that were maybe of use to me and some other friends, but i don't wish to waste his time or mine with a project that is going to turn into a nightmare. also, what other modifications will i have to do to get one of these to idle up/down etc., is it a PITA to separate the motor and generator? any help would be greatly appreciated.

[delaet20]

Personally I would lean toward the 4 cylinder. I do not know the HP of the Kubotas but remember that their short hood only runs at 1450, so if the kubota is rated at higher rpm, it makes less at lower rpm.
I do not know how much you will need to customize.
I will be very interested to see how this project turns out. I have a 47 short hood that welds great. I would consider mine worth the money of re-assembly. I too have thought that a diesel conversion would be the perfect marriage with an old sa200. I would think that the Idlt thing could easily be accomplished with the idler kit that weldmart sells.

[Old Doug]

I have repowerd 3 welders that they were simpler built than a sa200. I have a complete machine shop it was not to bad to do but my welders engines were mising or hard to find parts for . If I had your welder I would find parts to fix it back up and us kubota engine on something that need it worse. You can always bet that a prodject like this is going to be 3 times biger than you think it is.

[kustomizingkid]

I have been a golf course mechanic for the last few years... most of our equipment is 3 and 4 cylinder kubota engines and they are very very reliable.

[slowhand]

I myself would vote against it. Let me state some reasons why:

Your generator is designed to be used with an engine which has a governor, this diesel does not. That alone would make it worthless to ME in my trade. I've welded with such machines before and I was not impressed nor could I or would I be able to do my welding job with such a setup. lol Windings for such a setup are much less wraps with more exciter current (IMO :) ). IMO the heat would be much too variable with local conditions with this engine.

The bolt-up is not going to be pretty. The generator is not an SAE setup so its not going to bolt-up to that engine. Parts will need to be made up to mate the two. It won't be pretty in my opinion, nor worth all the $$ and hassle. lol

But do as you want. :)

Good luck man

[duaneb55]

I myself would vote against it.
So would I given the requirements of such a conversion but . . .

Your generator is designed to be used with an engine which has a governor, this diesel does not.
. . . sure it does. It's integral to the injection pump and not external like the type on the Continental gas units of the SA-200.

An industrial (off road) diesel will have a "variable speed" governor generally suited for generator/welder applications whereas an automotive (highway) will typically have a "limiting speed" type which is not. The major concern of any variable speed governor is its droop percentage (the rpms a load must drop the engine speed before the governor responds).

[ironlion]

i guess this was the only other option i had left in my bag as i had just basically up graded and redone everything and was about to send it off to be painted then all the new parts were stolen....the costs to go for replacements AGAIN will make this welder not worth my time OR money, the only thing it will be good for now is spare parts for my long hood '57 unless i see some other positive feedback that it may actually work out with the kubota engine.

i appreciate all the input from everyone.

[denrep]

. . .so my main question is what KUBOTA motors will jive with the shorty with little/no hassle? . . .

None will jive with no hassle, but with the usual repower issues addressed, it's doable.
The Kubota would certainly make a nice power plant. Myself, I'd lean towards finding a SA-250 Perkins with barrel trouble and using that as an engine donor. It would be more of a bolt-up swap.

For the Kubota swap, the first thing you'll need to know is the exact model of the prospective engine, so that you can hunt up some specs. Especially important is a KW/rpm graph chart to see what the engine is capable of in the 1500 rpm range, to see if it's even in the running.

Good Luck

[fredschrom]

" I'd lean towards finding a SA-250 Perkins "

I am doing one of these right now, the basic engine rebuilt kit is reasonable, thats where it ends, injectors and pump are about $850, any real Perkins part needed are hard to find and expensive Fortunately they last forever so if you find a complete Perkins you shouldn't need much, just be forwarned they aren't cheap.

A Perkins 3 cylinder is 38 HP so a little more horsepower than you need on a shorthood, not a big deal.

Be careful also if you go the Perkins ( or Kabota for that matter ). They made a lot of tractor engines, they are not the same as welder/gen set motors ( address above on idle speeds ) and I would check what the converting it would cost, diesel parts aren't cheap.

Here is a link to a Yanmar conversion:

http://americanweldingsupply.net/specials.php

[Nitesky]

Will be kinda hard getting ahold of them. The links on that page are for .com instead of .net.
Might have to try plan b

[denrep]

No doubt Fredschrom, ALL new parts are expensive. Especially so if one-off conversion stuff is being bought new, or custom made.

But with the Perkins swap that I'm suggesting, the only thing that would need to be purchased is one of the inexpensive "runs well but doesn't weld" 250s that are around. I really think that would be the cheapest and the best swap donor, even compared to some other engine that's "free" but needs a ton of custom fitting.

Good Luck

[fredschrom]

Your not going to get any disagreement from me on a Perkins, they a great motors just parts are real pricey. My motor with 8550 hours on it I could have reused hte rod and main bearings ( good ) I won't I bought a kit, it did have three cracked rings and my sleeves are going .10 over to tale out the ridge.

If you haven't seen it there is a greeat youtube video of a three cylinder Perkins, they purr like a Maine Coon Cat !!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-OG35cxpXw

I am in the thick of rebulding mine right now and the $850 on injectors and rebuilt pump was bad news, I was hoping but I expected it.

Good news for me is 8500 hours puts me in retirement ( almost ).

I weighed this pretty seriously before jumping in to an old welder, mine has a CV so new
( yes its a 300 amp machine ) its still $15,000.00, I will have about 6K in this done, custom paint, and balanced motor.

Just don't put your Rose Colored Glasses on rebuilding welders , right and dependable there are dollars on the line, and short cuts can lead to long delays.

I am not a real picture guy, but when I round this out I wil post some pics ( if I can figure out the pic's.

Don't know if its still there but Spokane craigslist had a rebuild ( fresh ) Perkins for about 3K. Been a couple of weeks but I think it was a 45-48 horse. The core charge is more than that.

[slowhand]

During my 200D conversion project I found out I had an engine and flywheel that wouldn't fit anything, and also an engine model that made it very difficult for me to locate an SAE bell housing, flywheel, and backing plate for. It seemed to me, after measuring everything out best I could, that my 200D generator had been made to fit this particular Perkins model block and that flywheel making it a non-SAE setup.

Thats what I think you'd get into. IMO - you'd haft to modify the front end of your generator to fit the block and flywheel of your new engine. Not impossible no, but not practical to do at home unless you have your own machine shop. :laugh: :laugh:

Also one of the big differences between a generator engine and a tractor engine is the flywheel. The faster turning engine has the lightest flywheel. My 200D's original flywheel was real heavy and the engine was setup for 1600 rpms which made it right.

Good luck.

[Shiftace]

Kubota motors are GREAT trading stock. I think I'd be Craiglist/Ebay bound if I had a couple of those.
just saying

[BCRD]

I'm afraid I don't have any valuable information save for this - use a 4 cyl, not 3. The 3 bangers produce HP at 3600 rpm. Some of the 4 cyls were revvers too, but some are specced to run at 1800 rpm. Much better chance of it having the power you need at 1500 rpm. You'll need to look at a graph for the available model.

As for the bolt up / governer issues brought up above, I don't have any advice, but I wish you luck, cause it sounds like fun.

Jason

[fredschrom]

" I'm afraid I don't have any valuable information save for this - use a 4 cyl, not 3. The 3 bangers produce HP at 3600 rpm "

Are you talking Kubota? Perkins 3.152 which is factory stock in my SA-250 is a low rpm motor for a welder. Pretty sure they were used in other welders also. The note to check for on Perkins is it a generator service motor, if so its low rpm, if not its a tractor motor, which means govenor, AND a different flywheel.

I don't know about kubota's

[BCRD]

" I'm afraid I don't have any valuable information save for this - use a 4 cyl, not 3. The 3 bangers produce HP at 3600 rpm "

Are you talking Kubota? Perkins 3.152 which is factory stock in my SA-250 is a low rpm motor for a welder. Pretty sure they were used in other welders also. The note to check for on Perkins is it a generator service motor, if so its low rpm, if not its a tractor motor, which means govenor, AND a different flywheel.

I don't know about kubota's

Yes I was talking about Kubota's. Thanks for the clarification.

Jason

[Fixalinc]

The conversion is not economical considering all the used welders on the market right now with diesels already in them ready to go. Engine needs to be correct rotation and rpm for a good conversion. Many have successfully converted them with Yanmar engines in south Texas, Arkansas and Louisiana areas.

http://americanweldingsupply.net/specials.php

http://www.hybriweld.com/