installing lincoln 225 arc

[jesseregen]

Hey, I just bought my first welder. It's a lincoln 225 arc welder. The problem I have is I don't have a way to hook it up. :confused: The only 220 circuit in my house is in my laundry room. It's about 120 feet from our tool shop where I would like to weld. Our electrical box is about 80 feet away but it's full so I can't add a circuit. I also have a generator but The plugs, dont match. What can I do?
thanks!

[MAC702]

Several options. You can build an adapting extension cord that adapts to the dryer receptacle in your laundry room.

Or you can do the same and adapt from your generator's receptacle.

Or (if available for your panel) you can replace some breakers with some tandem breakers that allow a new circuit for the welder or a subpanel.

Let us know which you would prefer and we can go from there.

[Bob Warner]

Sometimes the breakers in your panel will be double wide and can be replace by thinner single wide breakers, freeing up a space. If you replace a couple on each side you can have room for breakers to wire out to your shop. Then just wire a plug out there.

You can call the power company and ask about a sub panel right on your meter pole. They can tell you how to add it and not violate any rules. Then run from it to the shop.

Bob

[jesseregen]

Hey, Ok i'm thinking that adding a breaker might be better because then I wouldent have to unplug my dryer. How would I do this? Would I remove like a thick breaker then add two thinner ones? Are there like 120v and 220v breakers? Also where do I draw the power for the welder cuircit from? Do I put both breakers on the original wires?

-Thanks for the help

[Sandy]

A couple three close up pics of the panel for mac and the guys would help a bunch. IF it works out, what you're going end up doing is migrating some simple circuits off of "full bodied" breakers onto some thinner, half thickness styles. They operate the same and have the same integrity so it's a no worry situtation. This will open up room for a double (230volt) breaker for your shop or welder. One other thing (while taking the pics) is to familiarize yourself with where the existing breakers go and/or what all they feed. Knowing that will help control some of the zoning of the outlets at the same time as getting your welder going. :)

[MAC702]

What is the Make/Model# of your panel? Where is it located and is it inside the wall or surface-mounted to the outside of the wall? Where will the welder receptacle need to be in relation to the panel?

[MAC702]

You can call the power company and ask about a sub panel right on your meter pole. They can tell you how to add it and not violate any rules.
I've never heard of this before, can you tell us more?

[Bob Warner]

I am not an electrician but have done my share of wiring. The REAL electrician may need to clear up anything that sounds wrong to them.

There are not 220v breakers. There are X amp breakers.

Here is what I did at my house. FIRST determine what each breaker does. Do not trust what is written on the panel door. Turn them of and on and have the wife find out what stops working. Write it on some tape and tape it to the wire. Do this for EVERY circuit.

The people that built my house used the smallest panel they could and filled it completely. I took out some wide breakers and replaced them with thinner breakers of the same amp rating. Taking a wide one and replacing with a thin one left me with a thin breaker opening.

Do this with as many as you can (or need to). Now, you should have blank spots in several locations.

Look at the wires coming into the box. There will be two big black wires coming in and connecting to two big breakers at the top. BOTH of these are hot wires. If you look at the other side of the breaker you will see that bars come out and go down through the panel. The breakers on the left are not necessarily connected to the bars on the left, some zig zag back and forth. You find out what bar one of your thin breakers is on and remove it and move it up and put it back onto the same bar as high as possible.

You do this with every breaker you can.

This should clear up some space in your box.

Determine how large your panel will be in your shop. I have 200 amp service so I pumped 100 aps to the shop. You will need help determining the wire to the shop because it depends on several factors, how far you are, will it be burried, what are the code requirements etc....

In my case I got ONE double breaker that is 100 amps. This is basically two 100 amp breakers that are connected together on the switch. There is a bar across them so you have to turn them both on or off together.

I added them to my panel and in doing so connected one breaker to one bar and the other breaker to the other bar due to the zig zag of the bars.

You connect your wires to each one of these and run them to the shop. These will be the two main wires coming into the top of your panel in the shop. Add a ground rod and wire it to the ground in the box. You now have 100 amps in your shop.

You buy a female outlet that matches your welders plug and mount it where you want it. Your welder plug should have three prongs, two flat and one either round or in the shape of an "L".

You install two breakers in the panel for your welder. Find out what size they should be in the book or on the manufacturers web page or email the manufacturer to get it. You install them in the panel side by side. This will put one on each bar. They CANNOT be on the same bar or it will not work.

You wire one prong to one breaker, the other prong to the other breaker and the ground to the ground/common bus. LABEL YOUR WIRES

NOW here is the most important thing. HAVE IT CHECKED BY AN ELECTRICIAN. They are trained and can verify everthing is correct, including any errors I made in this post. If you do not, you're taking a chance and this is nothing to play the odds on. GET IT CHECKED.

If the electrician likes it and gives the thumbs up, turn on the breakers and start welding.

You probably have a bunch of codes and stuff if you live in the city and even in the country maybe. You may not be allowed to even do the work and MUST have an electrician do it all, not sure, you need to check.

Where I live out in the country they do not even require a building permit and do not inspect the wiring unless you ask them to. Each area has their own rules.

Hopefully I did not miss anything. BUT GET AN ELECTICIAN TO APPROIVE YOUR PLAN AND TO CHECK IT AFTERWARDS.

Good luck.

[Bob Warner]

Mac, I am in Texas. I just posted a long post about how I got power to my shop. After I did it all and was up and running the electricians for the power company were out in the road working so I asked one of them to come and look over my work. He said that I did it right and it would be no problem. Then he told me that if I had asked (and bought the box) they would have come out and wired from my side of the meter to the new box right on the post the meter is mounted on. I could have run straight to the shop without doing all the inside work. Could have had the 100 amps available on the pole.

Bob

[MAC702]

I was going to wait until we found out what the OP's panel was, but I'll go ahead and say that Bob's post was pretty good, assuming the OP's panel is similar. Sounds like Bob has a GE THQL/THQP panel, based on his descriptions of his breakers. Similar things can be done with the more common Seimens/Murray and Square D panels as well. Others can get more complicated or require a panel upgrade.

Calling the utility here for advice like that is likely to give someone a coronary from laughing. Nice to hear yours is actually helpful.

Most all meters here are combo units with the main panel; I've never seen a tee off a meter to a secondary panel, but I suppose its doable.

[Bob Warner]

Thanks, Mac. You guessed my panel correctly.

I was quite surprised when I called and asked if I needed a permit and they asked me one question; are you going to put electric in it? I said yes and they said that I did not need a permit but if I WANTED the fire chief to comeout and inspect the electrical it would cost me $25.

I already met the fire chief and have reservations on his knowledge of fires so I declined the inspection and took advantage of the electric company guys when they were here. I was confident in my work but it is always to get another set of eyes on it.

Bob

[jesseregen]

Hey, so i'm having camera issues so no pics for the moment.

Here what I found for the make and model : General Electric, class - CTL, no. CA-868813

I'm a bit confused with all this. Basically theres two main wires coming into the box. Then they split into all the different breakers with are basically switches that shut off at a certain power. They then go to all the different parts of the house. basically I would remove a thick breaker and replace it with a thin one. Then I would have another slot for another breaker that would go to my welder. My question Is where do I draw the power for the welder circuit? from the main wires / breaker?

And what are those double breakers for? Do I need to worry about those?

If you need pics I'll get my other camera out tonight, it's just a hassle.

-thanks!!

[MAC702]

To be honest, I can tell from your terminology and your questions, that you really should not be doing electrical work until you understand it much more clearly. I would highly recommend calling an electrician.

[jesseregen]

Yah, I don't plan on doing it myself. I'm 15 and my dad is gonna help me. He's done stuff like this before. I was just curiouse on what would be the best method of all 3 options I have and how to do it.

[jesseregen]

Ok, I'm actually thinking that perhaps making an long extention cable would be a safer and easier method, maybe more expensive. This is a methode I would be a little more confident doing. What I need to know is what type of wire do I use? Would I be able to use a regular extention cable? There rated at 300v and I only need 220v. They might not carry enough amps though. If I bought 2 and wired them in paralel then they would split the current right?

[MAC702]

Minimum 10/3 SO cord of some type. The machine's small 20% duty cycle at maximum output (which you'll rarely, if ever, use) means you'll never overheat the wire in the cord.

Do not parallel two cords.

You MIGHT be able to get a #10 extension cord and put different ends on it. Or you'll have to just buy the appropriate length of SO cord from the bulk reels and the proper ends.

[jesseregen]

Minimum 10/3 SO cord of some type. The machine's small 20% duty cycle at maximum output (which you'll rarely, if ever, use) means you'll never overheat the wire in the cord.

Do not parallel two cords.

You MIGHT be able to get a #10 extension cord and put different ends on it. Or you'll have to just buy the appropriate length of SO cord from the bulk reels and the proper ends.


Ok, that was very helpfull. Would the lenght of the cable matter? I'm thinking it's somewhere around 100 feet. Also, I didn't really read the replys above this, I just skimmed through it. I get the post about the electrical box a lot better now ( sorry ).

[crenshawjm]

i talked to a guy that wires houses, and he told me to run 220V 50 Amps for 50 ft. to use no less than #6-3 Romex. that is big enough to carry 50 amps and not burn the house down. he said that is NEC Code. ?

[slamdvw]

With regard to buying bulk SO cord... here locally, it's cheaper to buy a contractor extention cord, 10/2 w ground, and buy the ends, than it is for an equivalent length of SO and ends. but having re-read the post, I see it's 10/3... If a person had the 'power' going down the black and a black taped white, and ground/neutral going to the green, a 3 prong extentioncord could be done. Of course, pricing will vary, as I live in a greedy coal/oil/methane city where they see dollar signs.

A quick scan of NEC 2002 code ( old I know ) says that 6/3 will carry the 50 amp load. me?... if I had access to it, I'd run 4 ga... but as Tim Allen says "more power!!"

[awright]

While I am guilty of running extension cords all over the place, I would not recommend it as a preferable substitute for proper fixed wiring done to code feeding a subpanel in the shop. If you are like most of us after a few times winding it up for proper storage between uses you will end up leaving it deployed for weeks or permanently while you trip over it, walk on it, drive things over it, let the dog chew it, drop tools on it, slam doors on it, etc., etc. SO cord is quite tough and is designed to take a beating, but it is much more likely to be damaged by abuse than fixed wiring, especially wiring in EMT (Electrical Metallic Tubing) or other hard conduit. If the wiring run will be in an exposed area, you may have to put it in conduit, anyway.

I haven't done any cost comparison but you may find that feeding a new subpanel in the shop via wiring in EMT is reasonably cost competetive with properly sized SO cable of the same length. Also, you learn a new, useful skill installing the EMT. Everybody knows how to run an extension cord. Far fewer know how to run EMT and wire up a subpanel. Listen to MAC702 for wire sizing and general advice.

For fitting the largest number of branch circuit breakers in your main panel, you can get quad breakers that have one ganged, high current breaker pair to feed your subpanel and two 15 or 20 amp (or, even one of each) breakers to feed the circuits previously fed by the two 1" wide breakers you are stealing space from. Just be sure you get high-current breakers with handles ganged so that if one trips, the other is forced to trip. That's the most common configuration.

Good luck.

awright

[99blackzr2]

Ok, that was very helpfull. Would the lenght of the cable matter? I'm thinking it's somewhere around 100 feet. Also, I didn't really read the replys above this, I just skimmed through it. I get the post about the electrical box a lot better now ( sorry ).i tried #10 wire,25ft from main panel and my ac225 was starving for power at 125 amp output.i changed to #8 wire huge improvement.there is a big difference from minimum code requirements that seems to be recommended alot.you welder will perform noticeably better with #8 or larger wire.i learned this from experimenting with different size wire on my ac225 and power mig 215.

[marcuscarr]

Your kitchen stove is probably on a 220 circuit.

[TIGBOY]

If U Wire It Out To Youre Shop Just Dont Forget U Gotta Pull A Permit Cuz Code Enforcement Hates Everyone And Will Get U