1966 Red Face vs 2011 V350-Pro

[CEP]

This is very hard for me to accept. I've never seen a machine I couldn't dial in, but this V350-Pro has got me confused! I have the 350 set on CV Flux Core self shielded. I've done everything I can think of, even changed polarity. I've hit every number on the pinch, with very little results. Even switched to CV Mig standard, same thing.

The first two pictures are Hobart's Fabshield 1/16 inch 21B, ran on my Red Face, with LN-25 set on VV. The next two pictures are the results of the same wire same gun K-126, with the V350-Pro, and LF-72 feeder. Ran at 20 volts, and 240-amps. Any ideas of what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks in advance!

[welds4d]

Out of curiousity, did you try the ln-25 on the V350?

[CEP]

Yes I did, same results. One thing I thought was funny, the LN-25 would only feed on DCEP, when the 350 was on DCEN. This 350-Pro is the advance process model, I had a construction model before, and I had no problems running flux core self shielded wire on it.:confused:

[aevald]

Hello CEP, I understand that you have done a number of different things to try to address the differences that you can see in a rather pronounced manner, between the beads that you ran with your Redface/LN 25 on VV and the V-350/LF 72 on CV. Now back to the V-350, I believe that I would use the standard Mig mode on the V-350 as opposed to the V-sensing mode. This choice is based on your use of the LF-72 feeder and the fact that it is already "married" to the V-350 for best and smoothest wire feeding action and volt/amp adjustment and correction. I would then make sure that my leads were connected in such a manner that you are operating on straight polarity. I realize that you said that you already messed around with both polarities and didn't feel that you had any positive results. Be sure that you phsically connect the ground clamp to the + terminal on the power source and the feeder power lead to the - terminal on your machine. I do not believe that the V-350 has any way to switch terminal polarity by changing process on it and as far as I am concerned, if it did you wouldn't want it to operate in that manner anyway. My suggestions in no way infer that I believe you aren't capable of or do not know or haven't already tried the suggestions that I have made. Sometimes, at least for me, I have to very methodically go through various combinations and scenarios to insure that I haven't made a mistake or ommission. Barring success there, I would try using the LN-25 setting the process to stick (VV) hooking it up straight polarity, being sure to have the LN-25 set to VV mode and the polarity switch on the front of the LN-25 set to "-". With those settings you should be able to come close to the beads that your Redface/LN-25 is running. Good luck and keep us posted. Best regards, Allan

I did take a quick look at the literature from Lincoln about the V-350; noticed in one area that they made a statement that on some models of their V-350 that the machine has a feature to sense when a remote control of any kind is hooked up to it. To me this would indicate that if you tried to use an LN-25 on it in CV mode that you might need to disconnect the control plug from the LF-72 to the V-350 in order for it to work correctly. Don't know if this has any bearing on anything, but you just never know!

[David R]

I have run NR211-MP and the last thing I ran was Lincore 55 which is a hardfacing wire. Both out of an LN-25 with no problems. I ran some metal core in the LN9GMA. Only one roll of ESAB 7400 Ultra. It filled my shop with smoke.

All hooked to the V350A No problems. It even has a Hi freq when its on self shielded wire. I can see it and hear it. Makes for a smooth weld.

Looks like polarity issue. I ran quite a few pounds of NR232 Consulting the manual for speed and volts. Just could not get it right. Then I fixed my polarity problem..... I must have wasted 5 lbs of wire. I Had to start over, but it went much better after that.

Your first beads are beautiful. If you run the LN-25 on the V350, I would be sure to have it on Cv. I read the volts off the feeder if I can, I can loose a few volts in connections from the welder.

The wire speed is different when in VV o r Cv, consult the inside of the cover for a chart. In Cv the dial reads out correct.

If the volt meter on the LN25 reads correct, then it should be fine. The polarity switch has to be right and still the pick up wire hooked to your work clamp with the LN-25.

I never used my LF-72 for anything but hard wire.

Pictures when you get it right :)

Edit, the lead on the LN-25 is not a voltage sensing lead, its the other polarity to pick up power to run the drive motor. It hooks directly to the switch on the front of the machine. The wire feed speed should be as set on the dial or as in the cover on the chart.

I have 2 LN-25, but they are not pros, neither am I.

I cannot change the polarity on my V350 with out reversing the cables. There is a switch for the voltmeter on the V350.

More edit as I sit here and think. Does your LN-25 have a HI-LO switch? Mine do.

[CEP]

The 350 has a toggle switch in the panel for changing polarity. I thought about changing the leads just to try it, but forgot! I'll give that a try in the morning.
I did try the LN-25 with the 350 set in SMAW soft, that didn't work at all! No way to control the voltage, if you keep the arc force under 9.5 + it puts out 60-volts, if you go over 9.5 + the volts go up to 70.
I'll try switching the leads in the morning, if that doesn't work I'm going to call Lincoln and see if they can help. Thanks guys!

[CEP]

More edit as I sit here and think. Does your LN-25 have a HI-LO switch? Mine do.

Yes it does. I was running it on the low setting.

[CEP]

To me this would indicate that if you tried to use an LN-25 on it in CV mode that you might need to disconnect the control plug from the V-350 in order for it to work correctly. Don't know if this has any bearing on anything, but you just never know!

Yes I did do that. I even removed the remote just to make sure.

[aevald]

I will definitely be interested to see how this plays out. Don't actually have much experience with the Lincoln inverters. We do have an older V-350 out in the shop, however it is out of commission due to a blown board, it was a donor machine from a local shop. One of these days I would like to get it running again so that I can do some "comparisons" to some of the other manufacturers machines out there. Good luck on this challenge and best regards, Allan

[CEP]

If switching the leads doesn't work, I'll call Lincoln, and post back what they have to say.
This is not my first rodeo with Innershield:laugh:. Like I said before I've never seen a machine I couldn't dial in. Can't tell you how many tests I've taken with duct tape over the gauges on the machine, and I had to set the machine with in the manufacturer's parameters for the wire.

[denrep]

I'm gonna pile on for polarity.
A lot of Lincoln power sources have a (meter) "Polarity" switch with a footnote on the panel that reads: "Note - This switch does not change output polarity," or something like that. Maybe Lincoln dropped the footnote?

Good Luck

[ccawgc]

The polarity switch on the v350 has nothing to do with changing the welder polarity. It only changes the polarity to the voltmeter on the wire feeder. It just switches wire 21 from the positive to negative weld terminal and feeds it out the remote plug. works this way on almost all Lincoln welders. The one picture sure looks like the wrong polarity.

[CEP]

I hope you two are correct! We'll all know here real soon, soon as I get enough coffee in me to go outside! :laugh:

[CEP]

The polarity switch on the v350 has nothing to do with changing the welder polarity. It only changes the polarity to the voltmeter on the wire feeder. It just switches wire 21 from the positive to negative weld terminal and feeds it out the remote plug. works this way on almost all Lincoln welders. The one picture sure looks like the wrong polarity.

It is just as you say ccawgc! It has to be the polarity switch. I finally found the manual, wrong drawer of my desk:rolleyes:! There is only a page or two on the advance model, but paragraph 10, pg B-8 The METER POLARITY. Last line of the paragraph.
The switch does not change the welding polarity.
I guess too many years of running SAE welders, I see a switch over a - / + I just take it for granted it's going to change polarity! That would explain why the LN-25 would only feed on DCEP. It would seem the LN-25 is smarter than me!:o

[aevald]

Looks like you got to the root of the problem there CEP, now you'll have to let us know how it welds. Best regards, Allan

[CEP]

You guys were right:cool2:, it was the polarity.
Lesson learned: Don't take things for granted!
I think one thing that had me confused the most, was the sound. I've always been able to tell if the machine was on the correct polarity just by the sound, but not this time. I really should have known better, just by the LN-25 not wanting to work on DCEN.

I still think the Red Face welds better!;)

[aevald]

Hello CEP, I understand what you are saying about the redface and how it probably runs that wire. I equate that sort of response to one that many musicians make with regard to amplifiers. A lot of those folks prefer the "old" tube type amps because of the "warmth" of the sound that comes out of them. In my opinion the motor/generator welders have some of that same sort of ability with regard to their welding arcs. Have a great day and regards, Allan

[CEP]

I think a lot of my problem is, I'm so use to hearing an engine run.
I didn't take the time to play with the pinch / arc force, I'm sure I can dial it in better with a little more time. But there is just something about a pure DC generator arc! :D