Mig Vs. Stick Help!

[prichard]

I'm looking to buy a welder for my father for christmas and I've done my research and have narrowed it down to two welders.

Lincoln Mig Pak 10 115V(Canadian Tire Sale 449.00)
Lincoln AC 225 Stick (Home Depot 349.00)
I would love to spend more on him but that's the best I can do

Now I don't imagine he will ever tackle sheet metal and he's smart enough to bring anything load bearing to a professional. I leaning towards the mig (due to the ease of use). I'm wondering if anyone has had good experiences with this machine or will he be only restriced to welding pop cans. The specs on the mig say it will weld up to 1/4" everytime I hear up to it make me wonder. Should I just stick with the tried and true tombstone stick?

Any imput would be greatly appreciated!

[MicroZone]

The MIG is a little more versatile and will be cleaner with gas.

[elvergon]

Yeah...but to weld 1/4" you need fluxcore and it is expensive and personally it sucks, I tried it with my 175 and left bunch of slag INSIDE the weld...so when I was trying to give a 2nd pass over the weld...it just SUCKED.

It depends on what your father will be welding...if you´re low on cash get a AC/DC lincoln Stick welder used...Those machines will never fail and DC is the best way to go with stick welding... I bet you can get a used one for less than the new AC version.

[MicroZone]

Dang, you need flux to weld 1/4 with your Lincoln? I can weld 3/8 with my 130 MIG .023 wire and gas set on 8. :)

[tresi]

If he is never going to weld thin sheet metal I would go with the stick welder. I'll agree that AC/DC is the way to go if you can afford it. There's a reason that nearly every farm has a red tombstone welder or something like it, they'll fix a lot of stuff for a little money and last a long time.

[elvergon]

Dang, you need flux to weld 1/4 with your Lincoln? I can weld 3/8 with my 130 MIG .023 wire and gas set on 8. :)

Well...I´m not by far an expert in Miggin...but I think that you can weld up to 1/2 with any MIG welder....but welds will not result that strong,...or as strong as they need or are supossed to be...

I just say this cause on lincolns site, on deeper information on MIG machines...(135T is identical to the one prichard is buying), here´s a chart that shows the capabilities...

that´s what I am basing to say this :) but I can be wrong...

[Sandy]

For purposes of true comparison, manufacturers provide us with at least couple of fixed values that the potential buyer or user can commit to memory and then easily hold up against another machine for comparison purposes.

Example; machine 'A' with .030 solid wire, C25 gas, can do 1/8th inch in a single pass. machine 'B', same wire, same gas, single pass, can do 3/16ths inch material. This is a comparison that has some fixed values that mean something. This is a comparison I, as a novice, can use.

You could make a similar comparison with a fixed flux core size and a fixed flux core spec. Remember that not all flux cores should necessarily be used for indiscriminate multiple passes.

Duty cycle at similar current settings is another good comparison usefull to potential buyers. If some one were contemplating a steady diet of 3/16th material then we wouldn't want to steer them towards a machine with only a 10º duty cycle at those settings.

Given all the inputs from the original post, the stick machine makes the most sense. A 120 volt mig can do 1/4 inch about as easy as my old chevy love would do 92 miles an hour.:laugh:

[MoonRise]

The small 120V MIG (GMAW actually) machines will shine on sheet metal and occasional jobs up to 1/4 or 5/16 inch when joint prep and 0.035 flux-core wire are used.

If the jobs will be a steady diet of 1/4 inch + stock and not thin stuff, then the stick would be the way to go. With stick, you can also get all sorts of rod for doing things besides plain mild steel. You could hard-face things, etc, etc.

Elvergon, if you had slag inside the first pass with FCAW, something really doesn't sound right with your weld parameters or technique. Wrong polarity on the wire (still set up for GMAW)? Wrong wire size/type for material or size? Etc.

And Microzone, are you doing double-bevel joint prep on your 3/8 stock? That would make a pretty big difference, cause then the weld only has to penetrate 3/16, which is still a bit past the listed capabilities of 0.023/0.025 GMAW wire and 130A of current. And your duty cycle is -maybe- 10%.

General rule of thumb for mild steel welding is 1 amp welding current for every 0.001 inch material thickness. So 3/8 inch material calls for about 375 A for single-pass welding. Double-bevel butt joint 100% penetration on 3/8 inch steel would call for around 180A welding current.

[Clay Walters]

prichard,

See if you can find one of these http://www.mytscstore.com/detail.asp?pcID=1&paID=1011&sonID=600&page=1&productID=9545&zz=29680&x=14&y=6

$386 around here.

Good luck,

Clay

[elvergon]

The small 120V MIG (GMAW actually) machines will shine on sheet metal and occasional jobs up to 1/4 or 5/16 inch when joint prep and 0.035 flux-core wire are used.

If the jobs will be a steady diet of 1/4 inch + stock and not thin stuff, then the stick would be the way to go. With stick, you can also get all sorts of rod for doing things besides plain mild steel. You could hard-face things, etc, etc.

Elvergon, if you had slag inside the first pass with FCAW, something really doesn't sound right with your weld parameters or technique. Wrong polarity on the wire (still set up for GMAW)? Wrong wire size/type for material or size? Etc.

And Microzone, are you doing double-bevel joint prep on your 3/8 stock? That would make a pretty big difference, cause then the weld only has to penetrate 3/16, which is still a bit past the listed capabilities of 0.023/0.025 GMAW wire and 130A of current. And your duty cycle is -maybe- 10%.

General rule of thumb for mild steel welding is 1 amp welding current for every 0.001 inch material thickness. So 3/8 inch material calls for about 375 A for single-pass welding. Double-bevel butt joint 100% penetration on 3/8 inch steel would call for around 180A welding current.


No sir, everything was fine....Everything as listed in the welding guide that came with my machine...Probably parameters could be the stuff that I went wrong with...but they were very close to the ones that are in the quick guide inside my welder...

If it doesn´t leave slag inside the weld probably fluxcore is good then...only bad stuff about it is PRIZE!

[KRS]

what was the result?

[MicroZone]

Right, that chart is great for reference. I mainly do alot of 16 gauge to 3/8th flanges, so I can do one pass on mine. On anything other, I do multiple passes and bevel. ;)

[Sandy]

If it doesn´t leave slag inside the weld probably fluxcore is good then...only bad stuff about it is PRIZE!

elvergon,

Since the .030 flux core is more difficult to make than any larger sizes it is quite a bit more pricey per lb than the .035. Then if you are buying those little 1 or 2 lb rolls you are really getting gouged for those.

If you can get by with .035, and justify it at all, swing buy one of the big box stores and get a 10 or 11 lb roll (8 inch) of the .035 flux core. Imagine paying $3.50 to $5.00 a pound instead of $9.00 per lb !!!

[elvergon]

yeah...I used .035

Probably why it is a lot more expensive for me is because I am in Mexico...and no nice welding shops near the border...

Anyway...I think gas and solid wire is better...watcha thing sandy?

[Sandy]

yeah...I used .035

Probably why it is a lot more expensive for me is because I am in Mexico...and no nice welding shops near the border...

Anyway...I think gas and solid wire is better...watcha thing sandy?

.035 flux core is what I'm running right now. I do like the solid and gas for the appearance and/or heavy fill applications. Thin materials too. But when I really need to dig in or don't want a high profile bead I'll put on the flux core.

Kinda like both I guess :) .