Hydraulic lift bed

[BuckFever]

All of these ideas I have, I am kind of archiving for future projects, but I like to ask while I have the idea so it's fresh in my head :)

I have a relative who has a '97 Powerstroke which he asked if I wanted to buy....Single cab long bead. Would make a decent work truck but I would get rid of the bed (#1, it's trashed, and #2, I have another idea in mind).

A lot of you know what hydraulic bale beds are; if not, look it up. Basically, this is what I'd want to put on the back of this truck. The closest thing I would want it to resemble is the Deweze beds.

http://www.deweze.com/deweze/balebeds.html

Not having a complete mechanical knowledge of this type of thing, I thought I would turn my question to this forum since you guys have been helpful in the past.

There are 2 parts on this bed that I'm not understanding how they operate the way they do. The first is the spacing of the arms. Instead of clamping in from a pivot point, these arms are closed in by what I'm thinking are a couple of hydraulic rams, or a dual ram cylinder. Is this correct?

The one which confuses me are the power extending arms? I would think that they operate 1 of 2 ways.....hydraulic ram, or an electric screw drive of some sort.

There will be a few purposes of this bed, but none of them to feed :) One thing I was thinking of changing is to have 2 receiver style tubes at the end to interchange arms (i.e. from spikes to maybe a straight bar, hydraulic equipment, etc. Another reason is that I am an avid hunter and think this would be the cats meow when loading deer or elk, and to also assist in field processing if possible. Another option is to fabricate or buy a dump bed and just clamp the arms in it some way. I think the options are basically to ones imagination. Maybe even a combination of the bale loader and the Ezy Lift with a winch.

So my question is, of all things, how do you guys think the arms extend :o)

Ideas and comments are appreciated. I will try to sketch something up on Sketchup if I ever get some time off :)

[irish fixit]

The clamp cylinder is a custom single cylinder with two rods coming out. The newer beds have a special synchronized cylinder which makes both arms move at the same time while on the older beds the arm that moves the easiest will move first till it hits something.

I've never worked with or even seen a extending arm bed yet so can't say for sure but I'd be surprised if it wasn't hydraulic. Getting the hoses run where they won't catch anything would be the real trick there.

Keep in mind there's several manufacturers out there with different methods than Deweze. Most pivot the arms instead of slide them and the method used the get the over 180deg movement out of the arms varies greatly.

All that said I think you've not been around one these beds that much. Yes they're useful in a clumsy way. But they're very heavy, complicated, and difficult to make from scratch. There's lot's easier ways to get what you're wanting with out the weight and complication issues.

[BuckFever]

I was thinking they're hydraulic but had the same concerns of hoses kinking, etc. As for being around them, actually, I have. I understand their weight issues as my step-dad built one years back for feeding the cows, but it had the pivoting arms as most of them do. I just liked the idea of the sliding arms. as I think this would open a lot of options for using the bed for different purposes. (i.e. dump bed, material moving, etc.) I would imagine that there is just a long ram with maybe a 24" or more stroke inside the arms. the only kinking issue would be when the arms slide, but I'm sure there's a way around it.

To address the issue of there being other methods, I am well aware of this. One Idea I had was also to just have somewhat of a hoist setup where you could fold the arms down, and use a winch to just pull it up....however, lifting them from the bed to the ground would be a royal P.I.A.

[irish fixit]

Ok. Just making sure. I spent two months overhauling and customizing a old deweze bed for my dad. It's currently awaiting rebuilding again after being hit with a semi.

The real problem with building deweze style is getting the right tubing. In the newer ones they've gone away from the tubing inside tubing approach and have gone to a custom bent outside sleeve for the standard square tubing to slide inside.

They also have less travel on the arms compared to the pivoting type arms. Probably not a concern for you but it does make bale hauling and unrolling slightly more difficult.

Anyway to me for the weights that you're looking at lifting to me either a job crane or a much simplified hydraulic lift would be easier.

I've seen a few home made lifts that have square tubing arms going straight up with a cross bar between them. They put two cylinders one one each upright tubing. This allows them to fold against the headache rack and back out over the back of the truck. Good for loading and unloading medium weight cargo (meaning 1500 - 2000 lbs category). While my poles on my truck can lift much more they can't load it in the back of my truck.

BTW when I'm talking about sliding in this post I'm talking about the squeeze action for the arms not then extension.

[BuckFever]

Ok. Just making sure. I spent two months overhauling and customizing a old deweze bed for my dad. It's currently awaiting rebuilding again after being hit with a semi.

The real problem with building deweze style is getting the right tubing. In the newer ones they've gone away from the tubing inside tubing approach and have gone to a custom bent outside sleeve for the standard square tubing to slide inside.

They also have less travel on the arms compared to the pivoting type arms. Probably not a concern for you but it does make bale hauling and unrolling slightly more difficult.

Anyway to me for the weights that you're looking at lifting to me either a job crane or a much simplified hydraulic lift would be easier.

I've seen a few home made lifts that have square tubing arms going straight up with a cross bar between them. They put two cylinders one one each upright tubing. This allows them to fold against the headache rack and back out over the back of the truck. Good for loading and unloading medium weight cargo (meaning 1500 - 2000 lbs category). While my poles on my truck can lift much more they can't load it in the back of my truck.

BTW when I'm talking about sliding in this post I'm talking about the squeeze action for the arms not then extension.

The response is much appreciated, but there is one problem with the statement of the weights I am talking about lifting. The bed would not only be intended to lift Elk / deer. I thought I'd mentioned that but maybe not. Another probability of the bed would be to attach a dump bed (like a roll off design) to it....I'll try to sketch something up, then maybe it would be easier to understand :) I have a lot of thoughts regarding this stuff running through my head :)

[irish fixit]

I think I've got a good picture of what you're wanting to do with it. Can't say that it's a bad idea but I'm not sure I would go to the trouble of building a bed like that in order to get that capability.

Ok. It's crude but here's a quick sketch of one thing I'm thinking about here. It would even be possible to make it where the sides went all the way down flat but you'd have to recess the cylinders in the bed to keep them at a angle what would allow them to pick up the poles. This could also be used to dump a removable box though you might need to put hinges on the back to pin the box in place.

I'm not saying that what you're thinking of wouldn't work but this would be much simpler and lighter to build and while the poles won't reach the ground like a deweze it would still load things in the truck.

[BuckFever]

Wish I knew of a good, FREE, program that did sketchup annimations. Sketchup won't, will it? Also a program that measured stress points :)
Your idea is what I would do if I used a winch to just pull it up, which I am still contemplating. The idea with that is the bars wouild mount flat like bed rails, then just unpin them from the bed when needed.

I'm thinking the hinge points would be just 2 receiver ball mounts with a hitch pin. Simple and strong...

[irish fixit]

I think you have to go full blown CAD program to get those features. While I think there's some low cost and free ones out there I doubt any would have those features in them. It's been a long time since I've looked at them though so I don't really know. I've just recently learned about and started learning sketchup so I can't say much about it either.

You did notice that there are two cylinders to push the poles over on the design I drew?

While I'm not a huge fan of this setup it does have it's plus sides. The main problem in my mind is that it takes rather heavy poles in order to handle much weight. While on a standard winch truck the poles just have to take straight line force if hooked up right these have to take bending force.

I assume you mean hinge points for the dump box. Yes they would work well for that and I guess with modification they would work for the poles as well if you wanted to.

[brucer]

Wish I knew of a good, FREE, program that did sketchup annimations. Sketchup won't, will it? Also a program that measured stress points :)
Your idea is what I would do if I used a winch to just pull it up, which I am still contemplating. The idea with that is the bars wouild mount flat like bed rails, then just unpin them from the bed when needed.

I'm thinking the hinge points would be just 2 receiver ball mounts with a hitch pin. Simple and strong...


there is a physics addon for sketchup

[BuckFever]

I noticed the cylinders Irish Fixit....

and I'll also check out the physics addon, thanks.

Sad thing is, I have all of this idea perfectly sketched out, in my head :) I know how I would have everything setup to do a dump bed, roll off, lift, whatever. I just have a hard time describing it. I haven't had much free time to do a sketchup, but I'll try to get one done as soon as I can.

[irish fixit]

I noticed the cylinders Irish Fixit....

and I'll also check out the physics addon, thanks.

Sad thing is, I have all of this idea perfectly sketched out, in my head :) I know how I would have everything setup to do a dump bed, roll off, lift, whatever. I just have a hard time describing it. I haven't had much free time to do a sketchup, but I'll try to get one done as soon as I can.


Actually I can see what you're talking about myself. It would be a useful if implemented correctly. But I think I would start with a old hay bed before trying to build one from scratch. I've already gone through trying to plan out a deweze replica and I've seen a copy that some one else made. It gets way complicated when you start getting down to the details.

My real problem with it is all that weight hanging off the back end sure does cut down on payload capacity. Yes I know that farmers overload the trucks all the time but I'd rather carry tools than all that heavy tubing on the back of the bed.

[BuckFever]

Oh I know how tedious it would be to construct, but all in all, just gonna be a bunch of trial and error I think. As said in the beginning, it's probably not something I'll do for quite a while, and it may also not be something where I can do everything I want to do (dump bed, etc.) do to weight issues, but it will definetely be strong enough to pick an elk or something up and load it on the back :) We'll see how it goes.

[irish fixit]

Be a real good idea to get close to a deweze with a tape and camera. Help out a lot but even then there's lots of details that don't show on the outside.

[BuckFever]

Be a real good idea to get close to a deweze with a tape and camera. Help out a lot but even then there's lots of details that don't show on the outside.

Wish I could, and maybe in time. Sad thing is, I was looking around more and then found the Cannonball bale beds :) I tell ya, that with the telescoping arms of the Deweze and it would be EXACTLY what I would want :) If you're not familiar, the Cannonball bed can also act as a dump bed, using the same proprietary hydraulics as the lift arms. Best of both worlds. Then add my winch on the headache rack and I don't think there is anything that bed couldn't do :) The bed itself would proabably weigh a ton though :(

[irish fixit]

Yeah I ran across the Canonball beds a while back when searching something. Interesting concept alright.

[Boostinjdm]

Why not just do a dump bed with a winch and have a drop in hoop at the rear. When you want to load something in the bed you just raise the bed, drop in the hoop and throw the winch cable over top. With the bed raised, the hoop would hang off the back. Once your item is in the air, let the bed down and item will swing right in.

[BuckFever]

Why not just do a dump bed with a winch and have a drop in hoop at the rear. When you want to load something in the bed you just raise the bed, drop in the hoop and throw the winch cable over top. With the bed raised, the hoop would hang off the back. Once your item is in the air, let the bed down and item will swing right in.

Have thought about that also....I think the other ideas are more of a pack everything into one concept, but more than likely, I will do something more simplified.