View Full Version : Cleaning air tanks on truck?
03-18-2004, 01:45 PM
I am going to price some new air brake tanks,, sometimes I am suprised,, but was just wondering what might be a way to clean some loose rust from inside them. I had thought of something like putting BB's in and strapping to paint shaker?? I figured maybe Franz might have done something like this.
03-18-2004, 02:06 PM
When you see the price of Froggy parts, yer gonna crap.
I've never had to deal with rust inside of a tank S. and I doubt there is a port large enough to shake the rust out of.
If it was mine, I'd pour RustOleum rusty metal primer into the tank, slosh it around for full coverage, and drain out the surplus, and let it dry.
03-18-2004, 04:10 PM
Suprising enough the parts on this isnt too bad. The dealer is cool and even discounts parts. John Deere and Cat are really bad. Head gask set was actually cheaper than auto parts jobber. 136$ It has 3 tanks, one was 51 and the other 2 were a little more,, about 80 a piece. This job is taking 6 or 7 weeks, I had it figured for 5 or 6. I converted a lot of brake lines to American. Got rid of the tool boxes and just finished mounts for new ones,, going to buy them, bolt on. New bed steps etc. About half a day and the welding is done. Already been thru the brakes. Have the head back on. Pulled out the Souix and touched the valves and have a Hall seat tool,, touched them too. My guy is taking the fuel tank off now. We will change the cab next week. I found one in better shape at salvage yard and am going in the morn with a list and see what odds and ends I can grab up there. New inj lines were about 150 but the truck there was out of Texas and no salt. Injectors were pricey, sort of,, about 50 a piece for remans. Not counting my own labor I am going to have maybe 17K in it when its done and this knuckle boom is damm near priceless. This thing drives really nice and with a straight 5 speed in it I can have anyone drive it. I also like the 20 ft bed and short turning radius. I dont put more than 5,000 miles a year or so on it so a new one wouldnt have been a big benifit like if it was on the road every day. Its also has a nice little jump seat on pass side that is cool, recover them too. I am going to add shoulder belts even though this year didnt need them,, no point in having a pissing contest with a trooper. My service truck is old enough it didnt need them either but it looks 10 yrs newer and I don even want to talk to them guys if I dont have to. I got a brand new windshield from my bud,,, 148$ ha
03-18-2004, 05:09 PM
Remember, put a paper clip on the damn shoulder belt or the suspension seat will saw yer neck off.
Are you putting a good air drier on that thing ahead of the damn tanks?
Are you prepainting that cab pink before you hang it? Maybe Hanoi John could swing by and read the instructions to you, I understand he learned impeccable French in his Swiss Boarding school.
03-19-2004, 12:56 AM
I was wonder if Big had a secret method of cleaning air tanks. I dont really truck in winter so water hasnt been a problem, but a dryer probably isnt a bad idea.
03-19-2004, 01:15 AM
S, don't you know the only DOT approved thing to do with air tanks is replace with new? I have no idea how the inlet hub on a certain Western Star got O/A welded and reenforced, but it's already lasted three times longer than it did from the factory.
Now, if them paint fumes ain't completely got ya, consider that compressed air in the summer contains far more water than compressed air does in the winter. Warm air can carry higher humidity, and that becomes water in your tanks.
People tend to get lacidasicle in the summer when it comes to draining air tanks, cause they ain't worried about freezups.
Has FiFi got a wet/dry tank behind the compressor, or did they just stick 3 regular tanks on her?
03-19-2004, 04:35 AM
what about something like eastwood's gas tank restoration kits??
03-19-2004, 10:44 AM
Yes, I realize about summer air,, but wet summer air doesnt freeze,, ha, I never did have much water come off of this thing. There are 3 regular tanks after the air regulator valve. I never did spend much time on truck brakes so I am behind the curve here. Seems one would want some kind of filter after the tanks just for rust. I haver heard the term wet tank, but dont remember???? feel free to enlighten me. Its got one small tank that the air comes in to then 2 stacked above it.
03-19-2004, 10:51 AM
Te little tank doesnt appera to have any loose rust in it but the upper tank do I was hoping Big rig guy jump in here.
03-19-2004, 01:21 PM
I was wondering if you could use the electrolitic process to de-rust the tanks.
03-19-2004, 01:24 PM
What is commonly referred to as a wet tank is a double compartment tank that is installed directly behind the compressor in the iar circuit.
Wet tanks are recognizable by the swaged connection about 1/3 of the length of the tank. They are nothing more than a regular tank that has half of another tank swaged, and welded onto the tank. Air from the compressor enters the small portion of the tank, where it theoreticly acts as a water seperator. A wet tank should have 2 draincocks on it as well.
The rust inside the tankwouldn't be a major concern to me, as I doubt it will be carried into the brakes by the airstream. When you removed the lines did you see rust flakes inside them?
big rig guy
03-19-2004, 04:16 PM
Frannz has the right idea there, they are also called primary and secondary tanks.
I posted to the other post under my name.
Generally inside the air tanks they are a mess anyhow. Sludge and dirt crap etc, some rust particles running around I don't think would create a problem.
Alot of air tanks used to be mounted with a two band clamps per cylinder, which created a water trap inside the band clamp, which would of course cause corrosion. The tanks would develop rust holes pin holes etc, other than the Kenworth that I mentioned in the other post, it is striclty replace as new.
The other thing you could do is clean out with a rust neutralizer stuff and then completely dry out with alcohol and then apply expoxy primer, swoosh it around and let dry. You should have these materials in your shop?????? It would be good to use some sort of acid wash inside the tank to etch to help the expoxy primer adhere.
Myself, if I had to go through all these steps, I would get pissed and throw the thing out the window and order new, sometimes the thing your trying to repair, just needs a priest and lay it to rest.
big rig guy
03-19-2004, 04:24 PM
just a quick not on the cab swap, make sure all electrical is going to work, other wise your into alot of work.
Not to sure on your model, but have seen in the past, cabs from year to year, wired differently, also depends on what engine is installed. You think you have a easy swap, then you have the dash and main wiring harness out and swapping that too.
Would love to see more pics, job in progress. Kinda need your truck Monday morning as I have a motor to install into a FRT. I phone our tow truck company they have a International with a Hiab unit. Works slick.
03-19-2004, 05:29 PM
Yes Big, just got back from the salvage yard and found 2 of the 3 tanks that are better than ones I have, One had a dryer unit on it and think I will order 1 new. I was thinking of the epoxy primer trick too. I am looking for a camera now as have been using my neighbors. I think I am going to swap whole electric on this as it doesnt look too difficult and they are slightly different. I will get a better look at it next week. Just got a engine rocker arm assembly that has better tips than the one I had and all the inj pump lines too as mine were rusty. Its slow but coming together. I need to repair the bottom of the fuel tank but I expected that. I went to the junkyard with a list and pretty much filled it minus oil libe that feeds air comp and a air filter can,, the yard guy had smashed a nice one with loader,, dam,, guess its blast and patch,, maybe even glass it. Found a good PS fluid tank as mine has a seep in it. Its a lot of work but at the rate I use this thing it should last good long time. I hated to buy new truck that is sitting 95% of the work week. I have nice rubber now and good brake system, new lines and all. It is handy too,, I went up there for scrap pipe this summer,, all by myself, the crane made it a breeze. I ude it to pull suction lines for irrigation,, made it a one man few minute job and loaded a pump with crane instead of hooking on and going to loading dock. Was super nice for tractor tire repair, took a loaded wheel off on site, put on truck, took to tire shop, set off and then put heavy wheel back on. I find uses all the time, so easy when you can lift. Nice at my other farm to move equipment as I dont have to back tractor on to off load implement stuff. Being able to load and haul like it does is going to make it all worth it.
03-19-2004, 11:58 PM
:D S I think I figured out why FiFi the Froggy Mack is behind schedule.
You need to make your appearance more like this flipflop clown when you work on a Froggy truck.:blob3:
That little blue hat even might help you meet wimmen.
03-22-2004, 04:07 PM
I found 2 good air tanks in the salvage yard, will make 140$ for blasting and painting them. I am going to buy one new. Found a good set of inj lines, got a bunch of other stuff I needed and a spare starter and alt,, got whole rocker arm assembly that was better than the ones I had,, all for 50$. Now for one of my fav jobs,, fix he fuel tank where it rusted under the bottom. Its pretty local on this one,, will see how it looks when I get into it. I might cut the bad spot out with hole saw as I hate to blow plas slag into it. I will get my hand in and see how it feels inside,, if its crummy I will cut the bottom right out and replace it like I did on my serv truck.
03-22-2004, 05:21 PM
S make damn sure any welds on that fuel tank look like something the factory would have built, or you could find yerself Red Tagged right quick. The damn DOT guys have developed a new thing for repaired fuel tanks now.
03-22-2004, 06:30 PM
I pulled the sending unit out and the inside looks good. I am debating whether to replae the bottom or spot repair it. Yes, when I do them you cant tell they have been worked on. The baffle is welded to the bottom but I might be able to cut the bottom and break it backwards and get it apart from the baffle. I could plug weld it back I suppose. All the work will be on the bottom and I can feather it back in so it wouldnt be seen. The only plate I have sitting here is 10ga, would rather have a 12 or so. My only concern now is getting any soap residue out from washing if I dont take the bottom out, although I could wash it again before I opened it. I was thinking of using nibbler to open it, but then again if I plasma it I could clean it once its open I spose. I was thinking of cutting twice about half inch apart so I could rock it to back break the welds from the baffle. Like I said,, its clean inside the spot repairs wouldnt show either. hmmm Was also thinking I could fill all the way with hot water again and that might remove the soap enough too. Maybe I should eat dinner first and debate some more.
big rig guy
03-22-2004, 06:50 PM
Sberry-here s a pic this morning, the towtruck with a hiab mounted, we installed the motor and tranny as one unit, what a nice machine. motor tranny weighs in around 3800 pounds
As for replacing the bottom section of your new found fuel tank, just finish up with some minor bodywork and paint the tank black, this will get you by the DOT guys.
Got a couple more pics to post re the Hiab in the shop this morning
big rig guy
03-22-2004, 06:53 PM
heres another shot
Buddy here with this truck, built it out of a rolll off unit. Installed a used HIab unit, did alot of the same things that you are doing with your unit.
He even painted the cab as well.
He worked on this unit over the winter and just got it road worthy about a month ago.
big rig guy
03-22-2004, 07:07 PM
here is a pic of the motor trans. Basic cat with trans. Heavy unit, slid this in, took about a two hours getting this back into the truck, with all the hosing and electrical etc.
Hardest part was getting unit to sit on rear mounts as we elected to assemble motor trans on floor, and then install.
The engine and trans bellhousing were cracked from the accident this vehicle went through, your looking at over 8 grand to replace those two parts. Customer pays for clutch assembly as his was 60 % wore.
Tomorrow, install rad etc, then hood, getting close to being a truck again, want to paint this and deliver by this coming saturday.
big rig guy
03-22-2004, 07:09 PM
heh how about taking the 140.00 your making there and buying a digital camera so we can see some pics lol
03-22-2004, 10:47 PM
Big, what's the deck height on that Hiab/Roloff?
BTW, you don't know of anyone looking for a Prentice log rig on a DiamondReo that had a cab fire? I'm getting sick of looking at the one in my field, and my idiot buddy who had to have it now wants to sell it.
03-22-2004, 10:51 PM
I have a friend looking at a cam deal and when it happens I will get one. My neighbor usually stops but he has been out of town. I want one that writes to floppy. Anyway, I stuch the pressure washer hose on hot in the tank while I went to eat and rinsed the soap out of it well. This is the original tank and it just needs a little care. I am going to patch the worn spots and a couple holes. I will rattle the seams with the scaler and look for defects, any rust holes. Then take the 7 inch with 36 grit and clean it up, I clean the factory splatter, all smooth and polished before it gets sandblasted. They look better than they did when its new. It makes so much better to paint.
I did work for a trucking co. It was a small outfit but I built and took care of the major problems or installed new equipment. I talked them into buying a brand new truck with a 500 National Crane boom. They have since upgraded. The company was primarily steamer company, hi press was for oilfield. I geared them all up to do all kinds of **** they hadnt even thought of. The crane worked out good for them. Its really the nearest one in its class, local for hire and since they were oilfield the insurance,,, it was a good fit put it that way. Then, we set truses. **** set half the pole barns in this county. I had good rigging just for the jobs and for a year I went and set stuff with the customer. Untill the customer base ws established. I also had the crane at my house for 3 yrs,, ha Now he has a better rig,, 85 ft all hyd, the old one was 65. Got Tandam truck too,, the other one was really overloaded,, **** it was 29,000 with 32 max,, ha, we haul anything its overloaded,, but it worked. I send up 3 80 ftrs at a time,, but 2 was best. Lots of stick worked mint. The other guy with 45 ft and no rigging got beat up bad. This 85 is beauty for houses and pole barns,, especially contractors building 80 ft pole barns, even big homes,, the reach is priceless,, but anyway,, thsts the past. Now I got my own little truck and I dont need the winch and do need a 20 ft flatbed. This little rig is just what the Dr ordered. After inspection I am going to add another fuel tank for off road. About 30 gals with electric fuel pump so I can fill my tractors at the other farm when I am up there. I put a bunch of aux tanks on for the steamer co. No one ever said ****, inspectors and stuff. I am going to add it under one of the new tool boxes. I will store the pump and hose in the box above it. I am going to have the mehanic pull the pan and change the gasket, clean the oil pump screen, lok for any bad **** layin in there.. ha
Big, your buds truck it mint. Especially him and the truck,, ha another man. When I was sellin crane time,,,, dump ****s never even seen a cumalong,,, anther story, back to the truck. His truck is nicer,,, how much he got into it? When I picked the project I am doing here I realized that the truck of choice was less than ideal and if we had been talkin here I might have cooled my jets and shopped a bit,,, but I bought it from a local fab shop,, didnt hurt me there and might pan out,, they were glad to get rid of it and I didnt screw with them too bad for price. Last time I went in there with a bunge job for a couple shears and brakes, the steel and all was 24 $, **** saved me 50 right there. If I am doing any fab work in the future it means big, if I can get that stuff dome cheap enuf and when I want I aint buyin the **** to do it with. I worked for this outfit a couple times Ironworkin too. I will have to send my work down with this little ole truck,, ha.,,,, ok back to the point. I needed straight range trans, small engine not a problem with me, 20 ft flat bed, has great turning radius, and this thing is heavy enuf to haul my tractors well. Your bud prob has 10 ton boom???? Mine is only 5. I would have liked 7 1/2 ton as I got a JD 350 Dozer and weighs 8500 or so and and this little crane wouldnt handle it. That woulda been cool too move it without loading ramp,, Does your budd work everyday with that?
03-22-2004, 11:06 PM
Hey S, on the aux fuel tanks, I don't know how smart DOT guys are over your way, but here they are REAL SMART when it comes to the 113 gallon rule without tank vehicle certification and all the attendant plackard and license endorsement crap.
Oddly, they aren't smart enough to recognize a dummy equalizer hose clamped over a piece of bar stock screwed into the bottom port on the tank.
They're also too stupid to understand diesel fuel moves really well with 5# of compressed air applied to the tank, definitely faster than the 12 volt pumps, and you can screw the filler rig in and out of the filler plug hole in a minute flat.
On the rig you're building, a little phoney plumbing, and you could convince them the red fuel was for use when you are only runnin the crane on a job.
03-23-2004, 12:51 AM
Thats a good idea of air pumping. Easy. I wanted to haul only about 30 gallon tops. We do it now with a couple 5 gallon cans and I buy some from the neighbor once in a while up at the other farm. Our tractor work is minmal up there but with a little fuel it would be easy to keep it topped off. There is a station there but they dont have diesel. I dont are much about slipping red fuel in, it wouldnt add up to much and with my farm plate they might dye check this unit,, I am keeping it seperate. I am going to look for the right tank for this,, but I like the air idea. A regulator would be cheap and reliable, done deal. Actually an LP bottle would be enough fuel. My tractor there is 25 or 30 gallon.
03-23-2004, 01:33 AM
I went to work at 11, took hr and a half to clean all the bad stuff with the scaler and grind for patches and clean up the factory birdrap. Its 85 gallons. I might have looked for another tank but this is what came on it. So I am going to fix it, its more than I need on it really. Here we have state insp on commercial vehicles. Its like 40$ or something. Its just got to be examined by a st lic master mechnic inspector guy. Its simple,, my old serv tr passed it. Its yearly. If I fix this thing up well like I am doing it should pass it with ease for 10 yrs and farm my plates are cheap compared to comm plates. I am going to buy 5 new 4 inch by 30 ft roll up nylon straps. 14$ a piece cheap dress up. I move one to my liking and added one. 2 new 18x18x36 in tool boxes. Already go the brakets built on the truck for them.
03-23-2004, 01:39 AM
I wonder if my parts jobber will have a starter drive for a Bosch starter,, they suprise me sometimes. I took it off today, needs bushings and a new drive. I am adding another set of steps to the bed and an old timers handle,, ha Once a year I have to haul straw bales for a day or 2. I am going to add the tie down fittings for that and do a couple other mods to the headache rack, kind of trick it up for my work.
03-23-2004, 02:31 AM
While yer at it, why not a liftgate, so you won't have to climb on and off and expend so much energy?
03-23-2004, 03:28 AM
I get as old as you and I will do that. But,, that is ann idea,, I havn mounted one step yet. I could hinge it with a latch and a fold out extra step for my Dad so you were climping at an angle like a step ladder instead of straight up. Hmmmm I did make some slots so I could strap on my small oxy/prop set up fur goin to the junkyard.
big rig guy
03-23-2004, 04:46 PM
Sberry- I asked Buddy this morning as he is in our back yard, cleaning out all the used and discarded truck parts, sold it off as a lot to another shop as alot of the parts are still good. Anyhow, he has 21 grand tied up in the whole truck with the roll off and Hiab. Not bad, that would be in around 16 grand american. He can lift at the first knuckle 10 or 12 thousand, he had it out pretty good lifting the motor, say about 15 feet, it struggled abit too, the motor trans would wieigh in around 3500 to 3800. Course those being CDN pounds lol
It's a daycab 1990 International full tandem with third axle behind the tandem. 400 mechanical Cummins too, not my kind of motor, but gets the job done.
Pretty slick how it worked the truck today, he brought a 20 foot flatdeck rolloff platform, dropped that on the ground and then loaded it up. He also uses a 40 yard container too, then tarps the load. His business is heavy truck recovery, and this is one truck in his fleet, he builds everything himself and runs a small 4 man car repair garage as well. Hardworking guy that is a diesel truck mechanic, welder, motorcycle and small engine mechanic as well as snowmobile and probably a porn star at one time too, lol. Guy knows his stuff.
Franz I like that idea of 5 pounds of air for delivery of fuel too.
I think Sony is the only camera that writes to floppy now, they are still being made, and that is the camera that I would like to own as they are very sturdy, the insurance estimators around these parts use them almost exclusively.
03-23-2004, 05:06 PM
S look at a Sony FD 200 camera, I bought one for the wife this Bah Humbugh, and she can operate it. It writes to disk, and or the onboard memory chip,and can output directly to the video in on a TV, as well as a hundred other featurse.
The only limitation I've found is the flash leaves a lot to be desired, and the soom is limited.
If you really need zoom, you'll have to drop back to a FD 91 Sony like I shoot, but that is now an obsolete camera.
If you really want to get confused about your camera purchase have a look here. Just too many cameras to look at.
I ended up buying a Kodak easy share DX 4330 last year and it works for me. One thing you might want to take in to consideration is batteries for the camera. I based part of my purchase on the ability to use NiMH rechargeable batteries.
03-23-2004, 10:29 PM
Main thanks for buying a Kodak camera, you kept a Rochester resident employed 5 more minutes.
Sony batterys are unique, but not expensive in terms of what they deliver in performance.
NiMH batterys are nice, but get left in the dust when compared to the newer rechargable alkaline. Alkaline doesn't seem to be catching a lot of attention, and Grandcell setups can be bought cheap on Ebay.
03-23-2004, 11:42 PM
The two things I would take into consideration in a camera purchase are optical zoom(zoom by lense) and megapixel. Optical zoom is the best zoom and digital zoom is like a magnifying glass on a newspaper. Many people over buy megapixel and it uses up your resourses on you computer and increases storage needs. The difference between 3 meg and 5 meg on a 4x6 is almost impossible to tell. 8x10 is a different story.
A floppy disk is like getting an 8 track player on the camera. You can get a hp photo printer for $125 and you can plug your memery card in it, and print away without a computer. You can also upload your images to your computer from the printer. You can take your memery card to walmart or were ever and they will print whatever picture you want for 25 cents.
The digital camera market is very competative so what ever price range you are in, the quality of camera will be somewhat close between brands.
Something to think about is how much a bigger memery card will cost for what ever camera you are looking for.
bizrate.com will help you get the best price.
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