Another 220V breaker & outlet question...

[Mouse]

I am adding a 220V, 30 AMP breaker in my fuse box to feed my Millermatic 175 welder. Am I doing this correctly?

Here is the plan:

Breaker:
Using 10-3 wire, Black goes to first breaker, Red goes to second breaker, White and Ground go to the bus bar.

Outlet (3 prong to match the welder's power cord):
Black & Red go to the two prongs and Ground goes to the ground prong. White gets capped off.

Is it that easy?

Can I go ahead and twist the common & ground together at the outlet & put them both to the ground prong with a pig-tail - or is that a code no-no?

Thanks guys!

[MoonRise]

You only need three wires to feed your welder, two hots and a ground. You don't have to run 10-3, you can just use 10-2 with ground. Unless you are running 10-3 for the possible future use of something needing 10-3.

At the breaker, black and red go to the breakers, white and ground go to the respective bus bars.

At the outlet for your welder, black and red go to the big prongs and the bare/green goes to the ground prong. Cap off the white inside the wiring box.

No sense and no need to twist the white and the bare/green together at the wiring box. Just put the bare/green to the outlet ground prong and cap off the white.

Done.

btw, don't put a breaker in your fuse box. You use fuses in a fuse box, and breakers in a circuit breaker panel. Just making sure you are using the right terminology.

[Mouse]

btw, don't put a breaker in your fuse box. You use fuses in a fuse box, and breakers in a circuit breaker panel. Just making sure you are using the right terminology.

:blush2: ... and I'm usually the one busting on people who rebuild the "motor" in their old Chevy... serves me right...

Thanks for the quick response.

[awright]

Mouse, notice that Moonrise said, "...white and ground go to the respective bus bars," whereas you said, "White and Ground go to the bus bar." The distinction is important, even though the neutral bus is normally bonded to the ground bus at the service entrance. The green ground wire should go the ground bus and the white should go to the neutral bus, even though you will not be using the neutral conductor.

awright

[Mouse]

Thanks for pointing that out. I noticed that the electrician who wired my house did that as well. I'll make sure I follow suit.

[steve45]

I REALLY don't like using two separate breakers to get 220v. If you do, make sure to put the tie-bar across them so they work together.

I found out that the morons that wired my pool used two breakers, only they didn't tie the breakers together and they didn't label it properly. I was working on the auxiliary pump and turned off the breaker that was labelled for it. Well, I got lucky. I turned on the pump and it didn't come on, so I thought I was OK. I wasn't. Fortunately, the wires touched before I got my fingers in it! They had TWO breakers for the circuit.

Had the same problem with the circuit in my kitchen for the refrigerator and dishwasher, two breakers feeding one line of wall outlets. I don't know why this is legal, but I actually saw it suggested in a wiring book. Again, the two breakers were not ganged. Turned off the breaker to install GFCI outlets near my kitchen sink, plugged something into the existing outlet to test it, no power. But, there was still power inside the outlet box!

[Weldordie]

Had the same problem with the circuit in my kitchen for the refrigerator and dishwasher, two breakers feeding one line of wall outlets. I don't know why this is legal, but I actually saw it suggested in a wiring book. Again, the two breakers were not ganged. Turned off the breaker to install GFCI outlets near my kitchen sink, plugged something into the existing outlet to test it, no power. But, there was still power inside the outlet box!

Would you explain what you mean by, "two breakers feeding one line of wall outlets?"

[awright]

steve45, I don't get the impression that Mouse was intending to use two individual, unganged breakers in his installation. He said he would be using, "...a 220 volt breaker..," which implies a dual, ganged breaker. Later in his original post he mentioned the wire colors going to the "first breaker" and the "second breaker," which seems like an obvious way of describing the proper situation. Still, it doesn't hurt to emphasize the code requirement that the handles of the two breakers that make up the "220 volt breaker" must be ganged together so they must both be in the same state.

awright

[Mouse]

I really respect you guys for taking this stuff so seriously.

Thanks for making sure on the breaker, Steve. Yes, I bought the two 30 Amp breakers tied together with the soild bar. I'm using 10-3 wire (2 hot, neutral, ground) "just in case" I need the fourth prong at the recepticle in the future. The run from the circuit breaker to the recepticle will be less than 5'.

I popped the breaker in last night. I have about 20 minutes of wiring left to finish this weekend & I should be able to give the new Millermatic a try.

I appreciate the guidance.

Mouse

[steve45]

Would you explain what you mean by, "two breakers feeding one line of wall outlets?"

In my kitchen, there is a row of outlets. The original wiring used a 220v line (10-3 wire) for the entire wire run, with some outlets using the black leg, some using the red leg. A separate breaker was hooked to each leg, and they were not ganged with the tie-bar.

When I replaced the outlets, I didn't notice the red wire tucked back inside the first outlet box. When I went to the second box, I was rather surprised to find that it had the red wire feeding the outlet.

I was looking at one of the wiring books at Home Depot and noticed a kitchen wiring diagram in which they actually used this 10-3 wire setup. I really don't understand why they would do it that way.

Hope this makes sense.

[Sandy]

When I replaced the outlets, I didn't notice the red wire tucked back inside the first outlet box. When I went to the second box, I was rather surprised to find that it had the red wire feeding the outlet.

You should only find that situation in kitchens and those runs along the counters. It's a concession to allow for outlets for those within reach of the sink and also allow for the practicallity of having outlets for fridges, dish washers and disposals. So you might find one receptacle just out of the reach zone of the sink for an appliance, one just inside the reach of the sink and possibly a switch very close in that same wall with the hot lead to the grinder/disposal. Shared neutral and ground under controlled conditions. Two circuits but all things metallic having a continuous and contiguous ground.

[Weldordie]

In my kitchen, there is a row of outlets. The original wiring used a 220v line (10-3 wire) for the entire wire run, with some outlets using the black leg, some using the red leg. A separate breaker was hooked to each leg, and they were not ganged with the tie-bar.

When I replaced the outlets, I didn't notice the red wire tucked back inside the first outlet box. When I went to the second box, I was rather surprised to find that it had the red wire feeding the outlet.

I was looking at one of the wiring books at Home Depot and noticed a kitchen wiring diagram in which they actually used this 10-3 wire setup. I really don't understand why they would do it that way.

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks for posting back.

Looks to me that they did it that way in order to supply multiple outlets by running only one 10-3 supply line, instead of two separate 3-wire supply lines.

What was the amp rating of the breakers that supplied each side of the 10-3 wire run?

Thanks

[steve45]

You should only find that situation in kitchens and those runs along the counters. It's a concession to allow for outlets for those within reach of the sink and also allow for the practicallity of having outlets for fridges, dish washers and disposals. So you might find one receptacle just out of the reach zone of the sink for an appliance, one just inside the reach of the sink and possibly a switch very close in that same wall with the hot lead to the grinder/disposal. Shared neutral and ground under controlled conditions. Two circuits but all things metallic having a continuous and contiguous ground.

BINGO, Sandy! One side feeds the refrig, the other feeds the dishwasher & disposall, with outlets in between. Would have been OK if the breakers had been properly ganged. They ARE now!