We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky - Page 2
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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Northern MN
    Posts
    76

    SA 200 Governor and Magneto Installation and Timing

    I did a search here and I didn't find a whole lot on the procedure for governor and magneto installation and timing a SA 200 with a Continental engine so I will tell you how I did it. I know a lot of you know how to do this with your eyes closed but some of us here might not. Feel free to set me straight if I ain't right. Well, most of us aint right

    I have an F162 engine with a Fairbanks Morris magneto and a Peirce governor. Yours may be different. I ended up needing to change the governor. First thing is to pull the oil bath air cleaner off. I pulled the whole thing off. Behind the air cleaner is a hole in the engine plate, inside is a small pointer. A very small, hard to see pointer. You may have to clean this area to see the pointer. This is the pointer for the timing marks on the flywheel. The Lincoln Manual for my welder tells me that this engine is timed off of cylinder #1. Some are timed off of #4. Now for those that do not know the cylinders are numbered 1-2-3-4 with 1 being nearest the radiator and 4 being nearest the flywheel. So pull the spark plug out of cylinder 1. Place your finger over the hole and turn it over with the starter until it blows your finger off of the hole. You can't always get the engine to stop in the right place but it should be close. Roll the engine over by hand one way or the other and look in the timing hole to find a mark on the flywheel. You are looking for a mark that looks like this
    D | C
    This is Dead Center or another way to say it is top dead center. Line up the pointer with the slash between the D and the C.

    Pull the bottom bolt out of the magneto and the top bolt out of the governor. This bolt goes through and threads into the magneto. Pull the magneto loose and lay it to the side if the plug wires and the kill switch wire on the side are long enough. Mine were. The slots across the driven governor gear should be in the 3 o’clock and 9 o’clock positions or horizontal. These slots are what engage the magneto impulse tangs. Now you need to verify that the driven governor gear and the drive gear are marked. There should be two gear teeth on the driven governor gear marked with a punch mark. There should be one tooth on the drive gear marked with a punch mark. This tooth should be between the two marked on the governor gear.

    Once you are sure that the drive gear is marked you can remove the bottom governor bolt and pull the governor out. I got my new governor from Stumpf's (thanks Kevin) and that one had the punch marks on the gear teeth so it is easy to put on the new one making sure that the punch marks line up as they did with the old one. Use a new gasket, silicone, gasket cement or whatever works for you when you put the new governor on. You may also want to give it a few squirts of motor oil into the holes alongside the gear. This will get oil from the engine when it is running but a bit now won't hurt. Put the bottom bolt back in.

    Now for the magneto. I do this a bit differently than what Lincoln’s Manual says to do. First you need to make sure that the magneto is going to fire on cylinder 1. First you need to make sure the kill switch is in the run position (if the kill switch wire is still hooked to the side of magneto. If the wire is unhooked, the mag is ON, trust me, its on). Put the number 1 cylinder spark plug wire back on the plug and prop the plug up someplace so that the plug is grounded out and you can see it spark. Twist the magneto impulse tangs clockwise (while facing the impulse end of the magneto). It will load up and snap. Watch the plug and once you see #1 plug fire, snap it three more times. Twist the tangs lightly up to the tension of the impulse. About a quarter turn and it is now ready to fire on #1 again. Note the orientation of the impulse tangs. I turn the engine backwards (counter-clockwise while facing the radiator) from Top Dead Center until tang slots in the governor gear correspond with the orientation of the magneto tangs. Put it on, making sure that the impulse tangs engage in the slot on the governor gear. Put in the top governor bolt finger tight. Put the bottom magneto bolt snug but not tight, the magneto needs to be free enough to turn by hand. (Here you need a gasket too but you will still need to be able to turn the magneto, how you do it is up to you). Turn the engine forward (clock-wise) slowly to Top Dead Center. The magneto impulse should snap at Top Dead Center, if not rotate the top of the magneto away from the engine block until the impulse snaps. Tighten the magneto bolts. Put the spark plugs and wires back in place and fire it up. If it ran before you took the governor off, it will run now.

    If you turn the engine backwards (counter clock-wise) from Top Dead Center about two inches on the flywheel you will find a mark, sometimes a T or a | . This is the timing mark. If you use a timing light this is the mark you want to hit.

    Here are a few things to know.

    Engine turns clock-wise when facing the radiator

    Firing order is 1342

    Cylinders are numbered 1 through 4 beginning near the radiator and 4 near the flywheel

    Rotor in the magneto turns clock-wise while facing the distributor end of the magneto. This is opposite to the direction the impulse turns.

    #1 on the cap is usually the upper right hand tower, but it does not matter where it is, only the order of the wires matter.

    Try not to be the path to ground when twisting the mag pulse, really you don't want to be.


    And for all you old hands at this let me know it I am screwing up here.
    Thanks
    Mack

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    waynesboro ga
    Posts
    12

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    parts for those mags and the mags are kinda high its cheeper if you look in the right places to upgrade to a dristributer i think all f163 and 162 come with the drive you just have to knock out the plug in the center of the head. had a mag come apart on an old p&h machine(it was preaty nasty)

    at least down here in georgia cheepist i could find was 600$ think the hole kit new for a dis. isnt but 300. i found mine in an old forklift i had junked out with the same eng.
    Last edited by aggmechanic; 02-18-2009 at 12:53 AM.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Winston-Salem NC
    Posts
    8

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    F163 manifold gasket Fel-Pro MS 8676 B

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    east coast of va.
    Posts
    25

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    I need some technical help .My sa-200 was welding fine then this past weekend I went to use it and it has no arc . Does anybody know what may be wrong with it ???

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Leonville, Louisiana
    Posts
    385

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    When you put it on high idle does it strick an arc,or if you plug a grinder in the outlet, does it rev up. If it doesn't I'd check the exciter brushes. Make sure they are free and not stuck. If the armature is dirty, get a seating stone and pass it lightly across the armature until its clean. If all of this checks out, look at the weld brushes. If none of this works, go to AWS forum site and scroll down to Gear SA200, and I'm sure that someone be able to help you. Good luck,

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Nolalu (near Thunder Bay) Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    814

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    Quote Originally Posted by TozziWelding View Post
    Fan Belt; NAPA 5L480W
    Not sure about that number. Our NAPA sells Gates belts. I like Gates cause they are pliable and sticky so they make good drivers and work well with small pulleys.

    I pulled a Gates 13A 1245 off my '74 SA-200 just now. Here is something I was able to find on the NET. Might be of use.

    "V-Belt, 0.53 In Top Width, Outside Length 49 In., Industry Number 13A1245
    Gates 13A 1245
    Dayco 17490"
    Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Nolalu (near Thunder Bay) Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    814

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    Well, I stand corrected. Our NAPA used to sell Gates brand belts. Now they have their own brand that is supplied by Gates according to the packaging.

    NAPA - XL 25-9490
    15/32" (12 mm) x 49-3/8" (1254 mm)
    Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    1,562

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    Magneto Points Fairbanks Morse
    Attached Files Attached Files
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    Lincoln Ideal Arc 250 AC/DC, Miller 300 Syncrowave, Millermatic 251, 30A spool gun, Lincoln MP 210, (2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV, Few SA 200's, SAM 400, OA Torch, Portaband,
    14 ft Enclosed trailer

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    1,562

    Spark plug wiring in firing order

    Fixalinc gave me this but might help others
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    Lincoln Ideal Arc 250 AC/DC, Miller 300 Syncrowave, Millermatic 251, 30A spool gun, Lincoln MP 210, (2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV, Few SA 200's, SAM 400, OA Torch, Portaband,
    14 ft Enclosed trailer

  10. #35

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    Thanks for the interesting and great suggestion guys.i will give it a try

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Friona, Texas (Rhea)
    Posts
    234

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    Enter welder code number at Lincoln to get the manuals listed for it that can be downloaded. If code number is missing off your tag look on the generator barrel the code number is stamped there usually beside the starter.

    http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...ualsearch.aspx

    Continental manuals can be downloaded from Wisconsin Motors site.

    http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/partcatalog-ex.html

    Weldmart has a CD can ask them for has lots of good info for SA200 and accessories on it.

    http://www.weldmart.com/

    I have a lot of magneto & carburetor info for SA200 and other welder engines repairing those for 30 years. PM or Email me for magneto or carburetor parts & service lists.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    1000 miles from nowhere........
    Posts
    449

    Re: 200/ 300 Hood Removal....

    Here is a little trick that will make removing the hood easier.

    The factory bolts have a square head, with a "crushed" nut. I found this set up to be difficult, especially with a cramped space. I couldn't get a "full swing" with the ratchet on the bottom. It took too long to get the nuts off.

    Plus the "L tabs" want to push through and fall inside of the machine.

    I gapped the factory "crush" nuts and put a few small welds on both sides. I replaced the bolts with a stainless steel version that has a traditional head and washer.

    This now will allow me to remove the Hood hold down bolts from the top, without removing or scratching the paint.

    If you have ever removed the hood from a Lincoln 200 or 300, you will appreciate this.

    -Rhyno
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    07 Fowler 200D
    65 RedFace
    04 Miller TB 302, 22hp
    Miller 12RC
    Miller HF 251-1
    Lincoln SP135
    HyperTherm PM 380
    and a few others...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyno View Post
    But, if I "all of a sudden disappear.... ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SanAngelo,Tx
    Posts
    6

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    I gotta say,Im glad I found this forum.I have'nt desided if I screwed up or not.I got rid o a 06 trailblazer 302,So I could start building on a few sa-200's.Thanks to you guys,I found alot of info for my 68.There are some guys up in norman,Ok that have built a few sa's that look nice.The site is licolnbobekin@aol.com.Thanks again for all the great info.Scott

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    sonoma,coco calif
    Posts
    106

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    hey the continental overhaul manual is just click away in a pdf
    http://www.stumpfweldingsupplies.com...aul_Manual.pdf

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    1,562

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    Thinking of upgrading or converting your charging system or alternator, check out this link http://madelectrical.com/
    Last edited by kolot; 11-03-2010 at 05:15 PM.
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    Lincoln Ideal Arc 250 AC/DC, Miller 300 Syncrowave, Millermatic 251, 30A spool gun, Lincoln MP 210, (2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV, Few SA 200's, SAM 400, OA Torch, Portaband,
    14 ft Enclosed trailer

  16. #41

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    Please PM me the same.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    336

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    What's the oil capacity for the F162/F163 and what kind of oil are you using?
    Stephen
    Millermatic 251
    Miller Syncrowave 200
    Miller 30A Spoolgun
    Hypertherm Powermax 30
    Etc., etc., etc.............
    Cancer Sucks!

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    336

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    For those who have not done the spin on oil filter conversion, the drop in oil filter is NAPA 1010
    Stephen
    Millermatic 251
    Miller Syncrowave 200
    Miller 30A Spoolgun
    Hypertherm Powermax 30
    Etc., etc., etc.............
    Cancer Sucks!

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Friona, Texas (Rhea)
    Posts
    234

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    These three manuals contain a lot of useful info that hasn't always been so easy to find since Lincoln changed their website early this year. Save the manuals not just the links those could change again.

    Gas engine adjustment, timing, carburetor, governor & R57 idler.

    http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Asset...OLN3/IM179.pdf

    R57 idler instructions

    http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Asset...N3/IM179G1.pdf

    Gas engine adjustment, timing, carburetor, governor & electronic idler

    http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Asset...OLN3/IM277.pdf

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Nolalu (near Thunder Bay) Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    814

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    Rad Cap -- Prestone #RSP-28 with lever pressure release. 7lb. Just fits under the radiator cap cover. The cover doesn't fit all the way down but it still latches and that is OK because now it is easier to get open without swearing.
    Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

  21. #46

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    Is there any wireing diagrams out there? Or maybe some one knows? I have 2 wires coming out the top of my generator 1 wire goes to the reostat and the other broke off and I cant see from were it came.It was welding good until it came lose, its only long enough to reach the pc board area but i dont think it came from there. I was told its a 90s sa200 but it looks older Ive looked at other sa 200 but they had 4 or 5 wires coming out of there. If that makes sense to any one, any help would be appreciated.

  22. #47
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Port Orchard, WA.
    Posts
    9,928

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    Will this help?
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Don’t pay any attention to me
    I’m just a hobbyist!

    Carl

    Dynasty 300
    V350-Pro w/pulse
    SG Spool gun
    1937 IdealArc-300
    PowerArc 200ST
    3 SA-200s
    Vantage 400





  23. #48

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    Yes it did help thanks.It went to the second B on the board piggy backed some how couldnt see were it broke must not of been on there very well, its welding nice now just need a fuse. 15 amp i guess.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Youngstown, OH
    Posts
    5

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    I bought an SA-400 in very good condition for $800. Seems to be welding just fine. Is there any difference between an SA-400 and an SA-200 other than 2 more cylinders and 200 more welding amps?

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Friona, Texas (Rhea)
    Posts
    234

    Re: We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

    Your 400 is bigger and heavier so not everyone has a truck or place to haul one. The 400 will run larger rods and stand up longer to heavy gouging a 200 was never made to do for extended periods. Six cylinder engine uses more fuel too.

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