Lincoln 225 question
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  1. #1
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    Lincoln 225 question

    If I look at the face of my lincoln 225 welder there is a circle around the tap setting 75 amps. Why is 75 amps circled.

  2. #2
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    I think that is where the 100% duty cycle ends, and then it tapers down from there.

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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    I believe that is the 100% duty cycle setting. At 225A its duty cycle is only 20% which means weld for 2 minutes out of 10 - cool down for the remaining 8.

    edit: Oops. Didn't see Brianstick's post.
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Your both wrong. Its the pipe thawing setting. BUT DO NOT TRY TO THAW PIPES WITH OUT GETTING THE PIPE THAWING INSTRUCTION BOOKLET FROM LINCOLN.
    They drilled this into us at the basic welder repair class at Lincoln I went to a few years ago.
    Lincoln wants anybody that wants to thaw pipes with a welder, to contact them before they burn their house or their neighbor's house down.
    If you ask me how to do it, I am required to send you to Lincoln for the instructions.
    Plus they may try to talk you out of it.

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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    I have never heard of using a welder to thaw pipes til now(not that I want to anyway),and my pipes are insulated anyway :P
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    I have seen welders used for thawing frozen pipes many times.
    I had this done myself at my rental property. The city used their portable welder to thaw the waterline to the house that had frozen.. Didnt take long at all. Worked like a charm. This was the undereground line to the house off the main city service line. We had low snow that year and extreamly cold temps which drove the ground frost down real deep that winter.
    The folowing week, they were across the street doing the same thing to another house.
    However, I find it hard to believe lincoln would put this mark on the pannel of an ac buzzbox for the purpose of pipe thawing.
    Last edited by snoeproe; 04-24-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Yep!
    Its on there and that is what its for!
    Is it done by the average buzz box owner?
    Probably not!
    But a Farmer with a frozen pipe out to the barn?
    Yep!

  8. #8
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Here is Lincoln's electrical service bulletin titled:

    "Thawing frozen water pipes E695.1"

    You must scroll down to "appendix 2" to read it.

    http://ine.uaf.edu/autc/files/2011/02/INE_TRC_94_20.pdf
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Never used welder to thaw pipes. But use same method to heat broken bolts in rear end housing on 18 wheelers and tractors. FYI dont use rosebud tip on frozen septic line at tank you learn alot real quick also need backhoe for clean up.

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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Quote Originally Posted by AHenslee@aol.com View Post
    Never used welder to thaw pipes. But use same method to heat broken bolts in rear end housing on 18 wheelers and tractors. FYI dont use rosebud tip on frozen septic line at tank you learn alot real quick also need backhoe for clean up.
    They're not talking about using an acetylene torch. THey're talking about using a Lincoln 225 arc welder.

    You can (although really shouldn't) connect the leads to opposite ends of a frozen steel pipe and apply current to it. The resistance of the pipe will cause it to heat enough to slowly thaw the pipe. It should be done slowly over the process of 30-60 minutes, otherwise the pipe can get hot enough to either start a fire or boil the water inside which can lead to an explosion.

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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Quote Originally Posted by anickode View Post
    . It should be done slowly over the process of 30-60 minutes, otherwise the pipe can get hot enough to either start a fire or boil the water inside which can lead to an explosion.
    What you said does make perfect sense. However, I don't know how one could use the AC-225 over the time schedule you mention when the duty cycle is 20% at ANY amperage setting, according the the buzz box manual.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Pretty sure it's 100% duty cycle up to 75 amps... hence the circled 75 on the dial.

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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Quote Originally Posted by anickode View Post
    Pretty sure it's 100% duty cycle up to 75 amps... hence the circled 75 on the dial.
    Nope. Per the AC/DC-225/125 (K1297) and the AC-225 (K1170) manuals:

    "DUTY CYCLE
    The 60 Hz welders are rated 20% duty cycle and the 50 Hz welders are rated 15% duty cycle for the welding current shown on each switch position."


    "...on EACH SWITCH POSITION." So, whether one is on the lowest setting of "40" amps thru "225" amps, those Buzz Boxes have a 20% duty cycle ALWAYS.

    (Pg 10 of the manual if you want to read it. Here's the link:
    http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ln3/imt237.pdf )

    For those reading that may not be aware, in the USA, current is delivered at 60 Hz (cycles).
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Just my thoughts on this subject. Its nice to always be careful about what you do, but all it takes is a little reading in the Lincoln Bible and it tells you all you need to know about this subject. it also takes following directions.
    My sisters old house had a water line that would freeze up on occation. At that time I owned an Hobart AC welder, had a crank on the top, I think it's output was 250 amps. She would call me when this happened and I would go there and thaw the line out. Ain't no big deal!!
    My point is, don't be afraid to do things just because so-n-so told you it's dangerous. Going out your front door can be dangerous too but you still go out!! Bob

  15. #15
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Well, I'm no Eisenstein but I can't believe the circle (tap 75 amps ) on my 225 is for thawing frozen water pipes. From what I read it takes a lot more amperage to thaw water pipes than 75 amps. I tend to believe the circle has something to do with duty cycle until someone can show me something different. The duty cycle theory seems more logical.

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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Quote Originally Posted by kctgb View Post
    Well, I'm no Eisenstein but... I tend to believe the circle has something to do with duty cycle until someone can show me something different. The duty cycle theory seems more logical.
    No offense but based on your above statement, i believe that you'd still be a "doubting Thomas" even if you saw it in print yourself. I just posted a link from Lincoln Electric's website, stating the duty cycle on the AC-225 and AC/DC-225/125 models is 20% no matter what amperage setting you're on. (Refer to post #13). I even cut and pasted that info from the operator's instruction manual.

    What more do you want? Jesus himself to come down and tell you what the duty cycle is on those buzz boxes???? If that info isn't enough for you already, apparently nothing will ever satisfy you on the issue.
    Last edited by SuperArc; 04-30-2012 at 01:00 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    I see where it does state that but it also makes little sense. They also state that the 70 with a circle can be used for one hour continuous. To me that would be 100% or darn near. If that is the case that it is 20% at all positions I have been doing it all wrong these years. I know I have ran at 90, 120 &135 for better than an hour or two as fast as I could reload a rod with one of these. Never seemed to get overly hot, maybe just the weld leads. But not so hot you could not handle them bare handed. I do not dispute how Lincoln puts it in the manual but that just does not add up. I do wonder what their logic is in that and hope I have not harmed my trusty buzz box.

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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
    I see where it does state that but it also makes little sense. They also state that the 70 with a circle can be used for one hour continuous. To me that would be 100% or darn near. If that is the case that it is 20% at all positions I have been doing it all wrong these years. I know I have ran at 90, 120 &135 for better than an hour or two as fast as I could reload a rod with one of these. Never seemed to get overly hot, maybe just the weld leads. But not so hot you could not handle them bare handed. I do not dispute how Lincoln puts it in the manual but that just does not add up. I do wonder what their logic is in that and hope I have not harmed my trusty buzz box.
    Since you put it that way, I agree with you. I've run mine for a long time, beyond the 20% duty cycle limit and beyond. One additional thing I found in print was that Lincoln says basically that running over the duty cycle is not forbidden, but the machine will just "wear out faster.". I'm paraphrasing because I'm not in company of a manual now.

    It could very well be that Lincoln put in the 20% duty cycle limitation in print, just to CYA. My dad had my grandfather's Tombstone from the 50's and they both "tried" to run it into the ground (unintentionally). I dont believe that the buzz boxes of today are that much different than the old Tom stones of yesteryear. Albeit the amperage output is 25A less with todays AC-225, but its pretty much built the same. That old Tombstone thing kept going.... My dad asked me if I wanted it back in the 90's and I declined. He gave it away to a neighbor high school kid.

    I'm kicking myself!
    Last edited by SuperArc; 05-01-2012 at 12:09 AM.
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Question of the day, did/do those AC225's or the AC/DC ones even have a high temp cut-off device? Seems like without a control board it would have to be a pretty stout (and arc hardened) relay if it were to cut off during the welding process.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy View Post
    Question of the day, did/do those AC225's or the AC/DC ones even have a high temp cut-off device? Seems like without a control board it would have to be a pretty stout (and arc hardened) relay if it were to cut off during the welding process.
    Hmmmmm good question. I'm betting they do not have one and they"" just Kamikazee themselves without the user knowing it until its too late. I believe though that the Lincoln Buzz Box/Tombstone is probably the MOST abused and "worked to death" welder in the world. I'm basing my hypothesis on the fact that the general model has remained unchanged and sold in mass for over 60 years!

    Maybe one day when I'm drunk, I'll take my plasma cutter or oxy fuel cutter and dissect it open just for fun!
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    I have a feeling that they may be covering their a@# to some extent. Seeing that the target customer for these are generally the least experienced. And yes, they do indeed state exceeding 20% may shorten life. However I have a feeling my machine and many others more abused and mistreated will outlive me. So, to the OP, I would think 75 is a safe # to run 100%. Can't say on the pipe thawing part but it is interesting to see Lincoln say it can run there for an hour continuously. I do not recall any type of thermal shut down switch either. Of course heat is the enemy of all machines and those who care will monitor the machine for excess heat. I wonder what it would take to kill one of these machines?

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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
    ..... I wonder what it would take to kill one of these machines?
    Sounds like a job for Myth Busters! I'd love to see an episode where they see how long it takes to make a brand new Buzz Box have a melt down.
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  23. #23
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperArc View Post
    Sounds like a job for Myth Busters! I'd love to see an episode where they see how long it takes to make a brand new Buzz Box have a melt down.
    Who needs Myth Busters?
    Break out the 1/4" rod and have at it.

    My hunch is that both the 100% and pipe thaw were correct - at least at some point in the machine's evolution.

    ...it'd sure seem that the 225s have just got to be more than 20% capable, especially at lower settings.
    I suppose that Lincoln has to rate on the conservative side with DIY consumer machines.

    Good Luck
    Last edited by denrep; 05-01-2012 at 01:22 PM.

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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    Quote Originally Posted by denrep View Post
    Who needs Myth Busters?
    Break out the 1/4" rod and have at it.
    I want Myth Busters to pay for a destroyed welder. I don't wanna destroy mine just for fun. ...If it ever dies, then I'll chop it up for a scientific purposes : :
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    Re: Lincoln 225 question

    I am thinking along the lines with Denrep, could be the machine has the 100% rating at 75 and could be they don't want you to pipe thaw at any more than the 100% rating making the circled 75 the 100% duty cylce rating and the pipe thawing setting. just my take on it given the info here.
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