Cast Iron Welding
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  1. #1
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    Cast Iron Welding

    Internal hinge broke on the inside top lid on a Vermont castings wood stove. I should use nickel rod to weld the piece back on. Not even sure of the exact damage - only talked to the friend over the phone. From what I understand the piece is about 3/4 inch wide - 1 1/2 inch long - very basic hinge type. Any preheat/prep. suggestions?

    Thanks
    Do you really know all of the work that goes into getting that fish onto your plate?

  2. #2
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    I'd heat it up a little..200 degrees maybe..
    Weld with what you have..

    Let cool by its self and you should be good to go..

    ...zap!


    I am not completely insane..
    Some parts are missing

    Professional Driver on a closed course....
    Do not attempt.

  3. #3
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by jeverich
    Internal hinge broke on the inside top lid on a Vermont castings wood stove. I should use nickel rod to weld the piece back on. Not even sure of the exact damage - only talked to the friend over the phone. From what I understand the piece is about 3/4 inch wide - 1 1/2 inch long - very basic hinge type. Any preheat/prep. suggestions?

    Thanks
    The basic procedure for welding Cast iron is preheat to 700-900°F. This is a very dull red, basically just barely red.

    I recommend welding it with 99% nickel rod that way you can grind or drill as needed, if you use 55% nickel you will only be able to grind it, not machining at all and if you use a basic cast iron rod you will not be able to even grind it.

    The high carbon present in the cast iron will create a very hard weld deposit with anything but 99% nickel rod.
    Ron

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  4. #4
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    That may be whats in print but in this case?

    Its a hinge not a furnace..

    I'd just heat it a little and go for it..

    Been there done that..
    Way too many times..


    But if you need red hot then by all means..
    To each their own..

    ...zap!


    I am not completely insane..
    Some parts are missing

    Professional Driver on a closed course....
    Do not attempt.

  5. #5
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by zapster
    That may be whats in print but in this case?

    Its a hinge not a furnace..

    I'd just heat it a little and go for it..

    Been there done that..
    Way too many times..


    But if you need red hot then by all means..
    To each their own..

    ...zap!
    Looks like I am gettin' my own fan club!
    Ron

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  6. #6
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    http://www.weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=18291

    Also you want to allow as long as possible for the cooling to take place after welding.

    Also since this is an internal hinge and has been subjected to heat and a carburizing atmosphere. The welding may be more difficult you may have to grind out you first weld and reweld it again as the even higher carbon may cause porosity in the first pass.

    good luck and let us know how the repair works.
    Ron

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  7. #7
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder
    The basic procedure for welding Cast iron is preheat to 700-900°F. This is a very dull red, basically just barely red.

    I recommend welding it with 99% nickel rod that way you can grind or drill as needed, if you use 55% nickel you will only be able to grind it, not machining at all and if you use a basic cast iron rod you will not be able to even grind it.

    The high carbon present in the cast iron will create a very hard weld deposit with anything but 99% nickel rod.


    Ron, You can grind anything, if you have the correct wheel. Tungsten carbide can be ground, so can any Cast iron. John
    SMAW,GMAW,FCAW,GTAW,SAW,PAC/PAW/OFC
    and Shielding Gases. There all here.


    :

  8. #8
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    weldgault, you tipping a few tonight, your responses tonight sure look like it.
    Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT

  9. #9
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by weldgault
    Ron, You can grind anything, if you have the correct wheel. Tungsten carbide can be ground, so can any Cast iron. John
    If you weld cast iron with the low nickel content rods, it is very brittle and will crack and disinigrate if you attempt to weld it. Or the weld will separate from the parent metal and become a projectile.

    It is not so much an issue of hardness but of how brittle the resulting weld deposition become with low Ni rod.
    Ron

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  10. #10
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    Yup, the next sound you hear will be your work blowing itself apart and imbedding itself in places it ought not be.

  11. #11

    lincoln 350 pulse vs miller 350P

    looking to buy a new 350 pulse machine, either miller or Lincoln. It seems it is hard to get an unbiased answer. Some say the Lincoln has a more stable arc. The Lincoln has a few more features such as computer program plug in to update for future programs and DC tig capability. The miller will accept single or three phase. My dealer seems to have better service from Miller. Has anyone tried the two side by side and and come up with a preference?

  12. #12
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    This post is totally off topic, but i have the lincoln V350. Never used the Miller, sorry. But the lincoln WILL take single or 3 phase.

    search for pulsed mig, I posted some pictures.

    David
    Real world weldin.

    When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.

  13. #13
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    Re: lincoln 350 pulse vs miller 350P

    Quote Originally Posted by kalloy
    looking to buy a new 350 pulse machine, either miller or Lincoln. It seems it is hard to get an unbiased answer. Some say the Lincoln has a more stable arc. The Lincoln has a few more features such as computer program plug in to update for future programs and DC tig capability. The miller will accept single or three phase. My dealer seems to have better service from Miller. Has anyone tried the two side by side and and come up with a preference?
    You talking about the Lincoln PM350MP verses MM350P i take it..... I have the Lincoln and love it.

  14. #14
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    Re: lincoln 350 pulse vs miller 350P

    Quote Originally Posted by kalloy
    looking to buy a new 350 pulse machine, either miller or Lincoln. It seems it is hard to get an unbiased answer. Some say the Lincoln has a more stable arc. The Lincoln has a few more features such as computer program plug in to update for future programs and DC tig capability. The miller will accept single or three phase. My dealer seems to have better service from Miller. Has anyone tried the two side by side and and come up with a preference?
    Yes, I have.

    http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8257

    BTW, I assume you are new to the wonderfull new world of internet forums. Typically you would start a new thread with a question like this versus "hyjacking" someone else's question.
    Ron

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  15. #15
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    Re: lincoln 350 pulse vs miller 350P

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder
    Yes, I have.

    http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8257

    BTW, I assume you are new to the wonderfull new world of internet forums. Typically you would start a new thread with a question like this versus "hyjacking" someone else's question.
    Hey kalloy, Yes its poor "n"etiquette,
    But not nearly as bad as plugging your own forum in another in the guise of being helpful ?
    A good guess is better than a bad measurement

  16. #16
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    Re: lincoln 350 pulse vs miller 350P

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett
    Hey kalloy, Yes its poor "n"etiquette,
    But not nearly as bad as plugging your own forum in another in the guise of being helpful ?
    Looked like a pretty good link with the answer to me Brett.

  17. #17
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    I have an abundant supply of 7018, 6011 & 7014....should I just preheat, then weld with a traditional rod, or opt to buy 99% Nickel rods? Again, this is inside a wood stove for a garage/shop. The previous owner did not handle the stove very well, therefore the hinge snapped off. If the hinge broke as a result of internal casting defects...I would have just bought another lid. I just want the repair to be done right - would hate to have the weld come out with excessive defects!

    So................................99% Nickel rod or Traditonal SMAW rod (6011,7014,7018)???? THAT IS THE QUESTION???? ha

    Thanks,
    jake
    Do you really know all of the work that goes into getting that fish onto your plate?

  18. #18
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by jeverich
    I have an abundant supply of 7018, 6011 & 7014....should I just preheat, then weld with a traditional rod, or opt to buy 99% Nickel rods? Again, this is inside a wood stove for a garage/shop. The previous owner did not handle the stove very well, therefore the hinge snapped off. If the hinge broke as a result of internal casting defects...I would have just bought another lid. I just want the repair to be done right - would hate to have the weld come out with excessive defects!

    So................................99% Nickel rod or Traditonal SMAW rod (6011,7014,7018)???? THAT IS THE QUESTION???? ha

    Thanks,
    jake
    Cracking with steel rods will be you main issue. I have heard claims of people welding cast iron with 7018, but have never seen one in 22 years of welding. I think mostly the successfull welds were on cast steel, and the person did know how to differenciate between cast steel and cast iron. I have attempted welding some scrap cast iron with steel rod with no success. And being a Vermont stove you can be sure that it is a good cast iron.

    The main reasons for the steel not working on cast iron are;
    1) the thermal expansion and contraction of steel and cast iron are significantly different as a result the internal stresses as the part cools resulting in cracks
    2) the excessive carbon in the cast iron dissolves in the steel and results in a very hard and brittle weld deposit that is prone to cracking.
    Ron

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  19. #19
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    Listen to Shade Tree, use a 99Ni or at least a 55Ni, while Zapster may make pretty looking welds, welds are like women, a lot of the pretty ones have no substance. (believe me i know!) Preheat to >750 deg.. Slooooooow cool, I usually wrap in a FG weld blanket, then an old bed blanket. Some parts are still hot to the touch the next day.

    I've never had any success with steel rods, either SMAW or GTAW. They've always cracked.

  20. #20
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    Re: lincoln 350 pulse vs miller 350P

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett
    Hey kalloy, Yes its poor "n"etiquette,
    But not nearly as bad as plugging your own forum in another in the guise of being helpful ?

    "In the guise of being helpful"??? Did the thread answer the question or not? Seems to me it did and that IS being helpful. Who cares whether he owns the forum or not? No one here was able to or did answer the question.

  21. #21
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by jeverich
    I have an abundant supply of 7018, 6011 & 7014....should I just preheat, then weld with a traditional rod, or opt to buy 99% Nickel rods? Again, this is inside a wood stove for a garage/shop. The previous owner did not handle the stove very well, therefore the hinge snapped off. If the hinge broke as a result of internal casting defects...I would have just bought another lid. I just want the repair to be done right - would hate to have the weld come out with excessive defects!

    So................................99% Nickel rod or Traditonal SMAW rod (6011,7014,7018)???? THAT IS THE QUESTION???? ha

    Thanks,
    jake
    I will also add look at getting 1/16 or 3/32 dia. rod and you will have to vee out the broken part. Ni-rod does not penetrate like steel rod.
    Ron

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    Trailblazer 302, 12RC, WC-24
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    Spectrum 2050

    Thermal Arc Plasma Welder PS-3000/WC-100B

  22. #22
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    Sounds to me like you are wanting to use a stick welder to make the repair....if so check Northern Tool (if close to you ) as they have Ni rods in packs of 4/5 for like $7......if you need more check with an Agri Supply store as I have found a 10 lb. box of Ni rod for $30ish.....I had a vise that a friend busted and gave it to me...I decided the hell with it 7018 with pre and post heat.......it looked great and worked just fine....to set there and as a paper weight.....it quickly started cracking so I ground it out and tried again.....then decided to toss it....it's not worth it to me.....get the Ni rod and make sure it's the right one....(not some rod they gave me @ the LWS)go with the 99 so if you decide not to pre or post heat and it cracks you can grind it out an re-weld

  23. #23

    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    I know that I am new at this (welding) and know little, but what about brazing it back together?

    I was under the impression that brazing is a better way to go regarding repairs when working with cast iron.

    Homard

  24. #24
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    Re: Cast Iron Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder
    Cracking with steel rods will be you main issue. I have heard claims of people welding cast iron with 7018, but have never seen one in 22 years of welding.

    Check this out..
    http://www.weldingweb.com/showthread...ast+iron+steel

    And this..
    http://www.weldingweb.com/showthread...ast+iron+steel

    Just because you've never seen it don't say it can't be done..

    ...zap!


    I am not completely insane..
    Some parts are missing

    Professional Driver on a closed course....
    Do not attempt.

  25. #25
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    Re: lincoln 350 pulse vs miller 350P

    Quote Originally Posted by DDA52
    "In the guise of being helpful"??? Did the thread answer the question or not? Seems to me it did and that IS being helpful. Who cares whether he owns the forum or not? No one here was able to or did answer the question.

    Yes I was a bit quick to judge.

    I apologize STW

    Brett
    A good guess is better than a bad measurement

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