Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.
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  1. #1
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    Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Im about to take the welding certification for the state of Oregon doing beveled and I was looking through this welding book and it goes from 1G(flat), 2-G(horizontal), 3-G(vertical), 4-G(overhead).

    I have had people tell me 4-G surpasses all welding positions in beveled.

    Now I had someone else tell me 4-G surpasses 2-G and 3-G suprpasses 1-G.

    Whats the truth? Whos right?

  2. #2
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    6G is the toughest

  3. #3
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Quote Originally Posted by qaqc View Post
    6G is the toughest
    Whats 6-G? I though there was only 1-G - 4-G in the beveled tests?

    Does anyone know what is right? No one has given me a straight answer.

    I want to take the test/tests tonight, but I dont want to take 2 tests when I can take one. ANY HELP!!!

  4. #4
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Rat,

    I would take the 3g and 4g test. Those are the ones to pass in order to get your
    L.A. city license in CA.

  5. #5

    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    6G is a PIPE test, not plate. You may be looking at plate positions, and that's why it's not listed.

  6. #6
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayO View Post
    Rat,

    I would take the 3g and 4g test. Those are the ones to pass in order to get your
    L.A. city license in CA.
    Thanks "JayO", I thought so. Im pretty sure its the same way in Oregon too. Now for 6-G; there is no such position in the grooved tests. It only goes up to 4-G. And "Engloid" is right, 6-G is part of the pipe test; not sure what letter or position though. So Vertical and Overhead it is. Ohh and Im taking the test with GMAW. Thanks

  7. #7
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    6G is a pipe, vee groove, butt joint set at a 45 degree angle, no rotation allowed. If that test plate exceeds 1/2" in thickness, (or even if it's exactly 1/2" thick), you need to preheat it with a torch. Heat the whole test piece, not just the vee groove. These 3G coupons were done with mig and no preheat. Look close, it's kinda hard to see the small flaws!

    Preheat!
    City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;
    "Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."
    Job 28:1,2

    Lincoln, Miller, Victor & NKJV Bible

    Danny

  8. #8
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Quote Originally Posted by tanglediver View Post
    6G is a pipe, vee groove, butt joint set at a 45 degree angle, no rotation allowed. If that test plate exceeds 1/2" in thickness, (or even if it's exactly 1/2" thick), you need to preheat it with a torch. Heat the whole test piece, not just the vee groove. These 3G coupons were done with mig and no preheat. Look close, it's kinda hard to see the small flaws!

    Preheat!
    You are 100% correct "tangledriver". I read through the teachers welding book tonight and 6-G is indeed a pipe V-groove, butt joint set at a 45 degree angle, with no rotation allowed.

    Now heres another question; Does 6-G surpass all of the other groove tests?

  9. #9
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    I don't know, I never got that far...

    City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;
    "Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."
    Job 28:1,2

    Lincoln, Miller, Victor & NKJV Bible

    Danny

  10. #10
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaTyBaStArD View Post
    Now heres another question; Does 6-G surpass all of the other groove tests?
    In most codes, yes. ASME and AWS, for example. 6G will qualify for all positions groove and all positions fillet. If the code does not include 6G qualification, then no. The code may have other variations in how test positions translate,as well, or include other test positions, such as 6G-R (6G with restricted access.), or have more liberal translations (such as overhead qualifies all plate positions for some codes, whereas most--ASME and AWS, for example-- require horizontal, vertical, and overhead tests for all position using plate)

    You need to check the specific code... there should be a chart or list of what test covers what other test, and what the positional limitations are for each.

    (For ASME, a good summary of test positions and qualified positions in plate is http://www.sperkoengineering.com/html/Position.ppt )

  11. #11

    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    I disagree with preheat on those test coupons. It looks like piss poor welding to me. It almost looks like someone got "Weave Happy" and wasnt tieing in there corners or exceded weave limit. In the end, due to piss poor welding not to preheat.

  12. #12
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Is that a 3 pass root?

  13. #13

    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaTyBaStArD View Post
    Now for 6-G; there is no such position in the grooved tests. It only goes up to 4-G. And "Engloid" is right, 6-G is part of the pipe test;
    To clarify (not to argue), 6G is a groove weld, but the position is only tested in pipe. It is because the weld is at a 45 degree angle. Plate tests typically don't do anything at 45 degrees for testing. It is not flat plate, and therefore doesn't fall into the 1F, 2F, etc.

    THe way I keep this straight:
    F= flat, and pipe isn't flat, it's round.
    G= pipe tests

  14. #14

    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Quote Originally Posted by tanglediver View Post
    If that test plate exceeds 1/2" in thickness, (or even if it's exactly 1/2" thick), you need to preheat it with a torch. Heat the whole test piece, not just the vee groove.
    I believe AWS says it's 1" and above that needs preheat.
    Quote Originally Posted by tanglediver View Post

    Preheat!
    Those are some odd looking coupons. Why are they welded on the sides?
    Why didn't anybody put some radius on the edges?
    Was it the proper filler for the metal?

    If it was some kind of tool steel, preheat may have been a factor. If it was just typical mild steel, I'd have to suspect the welder's technique or the filler metal.

  15. #15
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Wow guys! Don't take my failed example so seriously! Let me say this, it was my first vee groove, 1" plate, 3G practice weld from school. I kept a lot of my school work, this being one of them. I say preheat from 1/2" thick and up, because that is the way I was taught to weld. Code says what the code says, but my semi-automatic teacher said at 1/2 thick, start preheating. This example got NO PREHEAT and is 1" thick. The weave is stretched a bit from the side bend, but was in fact, too wide. I measured 7/16" wide at the stretch. Techniques aside, the lack of preheat caused it to cold start with mig. If I had preheated to 150 degrees like I should have, it would not haved cracked as bad as that! My very next practice coupon did not suffer a catastrophic failure, and only small inclusions were found from then on. Solid wire mig welding for certification has, in this region, fallen out of favor with structural weldors. Fluxcored welding has become the industry standard process. I trained in mig, because I work in a repair shop.
    At this time, however, one may certify in structural, semi-automatic welding with solid wire mig. Semi-auto is an addition to the manual process certification.
    Last edited by tanglediver; 04-04-2008 at 10:37 PM.
    City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;
    "Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."
    Job 28:1,2

    Lincoln, Miller, Victor & NKJV Bible

    Danny

  16. #16
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Ok, I forgot to mention that Im taking the test with 3/8 inch plate. Now I want to take the tests vertical and overhead, cause thats what my future job wants. I read that in order to weld vertical and overhead I have to use Short Arc transfer.

    Is there a special technique on doing vertical or overhead? I was told overhead is exactly like flat, but vertical is quite different. I've practiced both with poor results; although my vertical down looked great. The book said I can take the vertical test either up or down, but everyone tells me that up is the way to go and that it is stronger then going down. What do you guys think or suggest?

    Ohh and Im using an old skool industrial MIG; Im using it with a solid wire with 95% argon and 5% oxygen. Should I be using a flux cored wire for the test? What about double shielding? If you guys have any pictures that I could look at of certified tests, that would be great. Thats vertical and overhead tests I mean. Thanks

  17. #17
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    I currently have an all position 7018 cert (AWS D1.1-04) for Oregon. I tested on 3/8" plate doing a vertical up and overhead which qualified me for 1/8" to 3/4" plate. I wouldn't bother with flat and horizontal before the test because that is not part of the test. As far as I know, the GMAW proccess is the same as SMAW.
    As for gasses and wires, it depends on which route you want to go. Dual Shield is great for in-house welding, where as inner shield is for the field.
    Of all the shops I have worked in, GMAW was usually certified in-house with no state recognition beyond that business. And the test usually was flat and horizontal. They've told me that in a shop, you can theoretically flip whatever you are welding into those positions so there was no need for an all position cert.
    I don't have any coupons because for the state ones, they usually send them to a testing outfit at swan island in portland and you don't see them again.

    -Mike
    Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.

  18. #18
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Hey, thanks alot "Brainfarth" and everyone else; that was very helpful.

    Now if I take the vertical test going down, will that stand out in the certification; like do employers look down on it? or is vertical, just vertical (if you know what I mean).

    Im going to make some practice pieces/coupons tonight at school and test the root/face on the bender. Now if I pass that; all I have to worry about is the x-ray, right? I'll try to get some pics posted later. Thanks

  19. #19

    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    You should be following a standard for that test. It shouldnt be one or the other. You should be making an uphill progression if they are following D1.1 unless they have qualified that in the past. I have taken a similar 3g 4g test on 1" material. I qualified using the FCAW process and GMAW process. And to the Above, I didnt mean to be an AZZ. I was having a bad day.
    Last edited by Dirty_d; 04-10-2008 at 07:15 PM.

  20. #20
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Well I took the State test and passed It took them a little while to test my pieces (like 3months) but I got my certification. AWS D1.1-04, GMAW, 3G, 4G (all positions). Im stoked!!! I actually already got a welding job too....yay 4 summer Now I want to get certifications in Tig, Stick, n all that good stuff. I wanna learn how to read blueprints too...anyone know a good blueprint site or something?

  21. #21
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    good job

  22. #22

    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    Quote Originally Posted by tanglediver View Post
    Wow guys! Don't take my failed example so seriously! Let me say this, it was my first vee groove, 1" plate, 3G practice weld from school. I kept a lot of my school work, this being one of them. I say preheat from 1/2" thick and up, because that is the way I was taught to weld. Code says what the code says, but my semi-automatic teacher said at 1/2 thick, start preheating. This example got NO PREHEAT and is 1" thick. The weave is stretched a bit from the side bend, but was in fact, too wide. I measured 7/16" wide at the stretch. Techniques aside, the lack of preheat caused it to cold start with mig. If I had preheated to 150 degrees like I should have, it would not haved cracked as bad as that! My very next practice coupon did not suffer a catastrophic failure, and only small inclusions were found from then on. Solid wire mig welding for certification has, in this region, fallen out of favor with structural weldors. Fluxcored welding has become the industry standard process. I trained in mig, because I work in a repair shop.
    At this time, however, one may certify in structural, semi-automatic welding with solid wire mig. Semi-auto is an addition to the manual process certification.
    its an old post but i want to clear up a cpl inaccuracies for future readers.

    those were side bends commonly done in schools where they dont have a tester big enough for bending the full 1 inch coupons. keep in mind if they cant bend 1 inch coupons the root and face direction then they cant certify you for 1 inch which is good for unlimited thickness in the filed.

    secondly the plate failure was not from lack of preheat. if it was a root failure you might be able to argue it as only the root would have been cold and every subsiquent weld would be at interpass temp. since the weld failure was at the cap the pate should have been plenty hot especially in 1 inch.

    and the f in 1f 2f 4f ect stands for fillet not flat. g stands for groove. so you can have 3g 4g ect in pipe or plate it just means your filling a groove not a corner which is a fillet.

  23. #23
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    "those were side bends commonly done in schools where they don't have a tester big enough for bending the full 1 inch coupons. keep in mind if they cant bend 1 inch coupons the root and face direction then they cant certify you for 1 inch which is good for unlimited thickness in the filed."

    The code referenced was D1.1 2004. Per this code side bends are required for the 1" plate test for unlimited thickness, not face and root bends.

    jrw159

  24. #24

    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    i stand corrected i didnt think they could certify on a side bend.

  25. #25
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    Re: Question about The Oregon State Welding Certification.

    I just recently took the AWS D1.1-08 at LCC and we were certified with side bends. I also took the AWS D1.5-08 at work and I believe that was a side bend test also. Both tests with FCAW-G 100% co2 and both in the 3G position

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