Layout of eccentric cone
RSS | Subscribe | Contact Us | Advertise | About Us
Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hardwood Lands, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    1,503

    Layout of eccentric cone

    I've made a couple of cones from 1/8" aluminum for a friend of mine. I never thought about the use of these cones until they were done and I wish I had actually thought about the purpose before I had made them . Hindsite is a bit** :-).
    He's making a boat, kind of a houseboat rig and has two pontoons to use on each side as stabilizers but he wanted a cone/point to weld on one end of each to break the water.
    I made the cones up ( 6" x 19" x 20" high), welded them together no problem and in a moment of thought figured "damn, they should have been eccentric instead of concentric", flush to the top in other words so they would ride up on the water instead of plowing thru it.
    My question, finally, how do you lay an eccentric cone out? I have the Audels Sheet Metal handbook, searched thru the web, but no luck, anyone.....Mike

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    B.C. Canada
    Posts
    2,388

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    You would have to develop the shape using triangulation similar to the way square to rounds are done. You cannot do it by parallel line or radial line development. I will look around. Check you audels and see if it mentions the triangulation method.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hardwood Lands, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    1,503

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Any info's appreciated, I'll look deeper in Audels.
    In one of those mellow moments I'm wishing I had paid more attention when I was younger (52 now) to my father (RIP). He woked for the shipyards here in Halifax duing the war and I don't think there's much he couldn't layout. Am I bragging....yep :-).
    Not sure how many people know what a Cort nozzle is, here's a pic http://tinyurl.com/5ummrz there's not a flat inch on them anywhere.
    I remember 20 or so years ago him making templates for them in the basement and at the time finding it interesting. Thinking back now I should have been fascinated. No computers, AutoCAD, Solidworks nuttin.....Mike

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    670

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Hey Mike, google 'oblique cone'.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hardwood Lands, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    1,503

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Ahhhh, the light is beginning to shine, a tad dimly but starting to shine non-the-less, thanks.....Mike

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    670

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    This may get the light shining a little brighter... http://www.apogeerockets.com/educati...sletter127.pdf

    Software ovbviously speeds up the process considerably, providing the necessary 'true lengths' needed for layout (assuming, like me, you don't own a large printer/plotter)

    There's several shareware/trial versions around- try www.tyharness.co.uk

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    670

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    screenshot of tyharness 'conetran'

    Name:  cone.jpg
Views: 14972
Size:  71.5 KB

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hardwood Lands, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    1,503

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Hotrodder, That software is the cats a**, thank you for pointing me in the right direction as well as the others that helped. I'm now blinded by the light, (well....not quite but you get the drift).
    Thanks again all......Mike

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,935

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmikey View Post
    I've made a couple of cones from 1/8" aluminum for a friend of mine. I never thought about the use of these cones until they were done and I wish I had actually thought about the purpose before I had made them . Hindsite is a bit** :-).
    He's making a boat, kind of a houseboat rig and has two pontoons to use on each side as stabilizers but he wanted a cone/point to weld on one end of each to break the water.
    I made the cones up ( 6" x 19" x 20" high), welded them together no problem and in a moment of thought figured "damn, they should have been eccentric instead of concentric", flush to the top in other words so they would ride up on the water instead of plowing thru it.
    My question, finally, how do you lay an eccentric cone out? I have the Audels Sheet Metal handbook, searched thru the web, but no luck, anyone.....Mike
    You are saying that the tube that they get welded to is elliptical?

    If the tube was round it is easy to make a scalene cone. But to be honest using the old style layout, you could probably make anything.

    I just did some coning myself. Going to finish tomorrow night. A friend wanted the green one that broke duplicated. So I drew it up and printed out templates and then cut them rough on a Beverly shear. And finished them up with a disc sander.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/GeneralCad...ereloaded1.jpg

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/GeneralCad...ereloaded2.jpg





    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hardwood Lands, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    1,503

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Nice work William, very impressive. Copper work always looks good especially the piece you posted.
    Not knowing the proper term when I posted the origonal message it's a scalene cone.....Mike

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,935

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmikey View Post
    Nice work William, very impressive. Copper work always looks good especially the piece you posted.
    Not knowing the proper term when I posted the origonal message it's a scalene cone.....Mike
    Thank You.

    I just finished up my cone tonight.


    http://www.Rockwelder.com/GeneralCad...ereloaded5.jpg

    I believe that someone else already posted a way to draw it up.

    Good luck with your cone. Get us some pictures when you are done. I would love to see something like that.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by William McCormick Jr; 07-15-2008 at 03:15 AM. Reason: Forgot to Thank Mrmikey

  12. #12

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    dum mans way. biuld your cone, cut square to one side, now the side the side that is square may need to be pulled in abit but there you go.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,935

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Quote Originally Posted by johndeerski View Post
    dum mans way. biuld your cone, cut square to one side, now the side the side that is square may need to be pulled in abit but there you go.

    I am sure you could knock it into a round. You could jam it into the pontoon, and force it round and then just mark and cut it.

    But I would probably just lay it out, and bend it up according to the proper layout. So I could change the angle of the object I used to bend the cone on, compared to the angle of the cone.

    If you put in all those marks as someone else posted, you can just keep orienting the device you have inside to those marks. It does make it come out nicer. But I could do it with your method and I bet it would come out very nice.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Flash/Scalene/Scalene.htm

    The Three D drawing program is Alibre. And I use Camtasia Studio to record it.


    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
    Last edited by William McCormick Jr; 08-09-2008 at 12:43 AM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hardwood Lands, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    1,503

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Nice layout William.....Mike

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    Posts
    132

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    I was working with an old timer back in the eighties. He asked me if I could lay this out. It was a centered taper 17.75" X 18" X 18" tall. I knew the apex was going to be a mile away. I said yes triangulation. He scoffed and laid it out with a framing square in about two minutes. He never told me how he did it. anyone know? It haunts me.
    DAG NABIT, I left my tape on the saw.
    Wild Fire Welding

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Waukesha, the town that made Milwaukee famous!
    Posts
    5

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick Jr View Post
    Thank You.

    I just finished up my cone tonight.


    http://www.Rockwelder.com/GeneralCad...ereloaded5.jpg

    I believe that someone else already posted a way to draw it up.

    Good luck with your cone. Get us some pictures when you are done. I would love to see something like that.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick


    Very nice work. How many hours did you have into this project and what machine did you use to roll the top section - that's tight
    Last edited by Bud; 05-06-2009 at 05:38 AM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Posts
    1,039

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    I know this is an old post, but an eccentric cone or reducer is usually layed out for piping. The cut patterns and formulas can be found in pipe layout books. Frankland book or Horton pipe layout book are two that have this. I believe they can be found at pipefitter.com

    Bill

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Canyon Lake, Texas
    Posts
    118

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    It is a very old post...but how about make the cones, just like he did, then cut them in half and weld a plate over the 'cut line' This would be the bottom (in the water), and a single fin-type center support welded along that plate back to the bulkhead...OR, the second cone (also cut in half) welded to the plate, backset about 1/4 of the way,
    http://i40.tinypic.com/1zp47zd.jpg
    "Good Enough Never Is"
    MIller AC/DC Thunderbolt
    Hobart HH180, 125EZ
    Riland Cut 40 Plasma
    oxy/act outfit
    Tons of "stuff", all treasures to me!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,935

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Quote Originally Posted by Bud View Post
    Very nice work. How many hours did you have into this project and what machine did you use to roll the top section - that's tight
    They took me a couple hours. I drew them up with cadd, and printed out overlays, of the shape I wanted. And then after work made them up.

    I did the cones, on a rounded pointed piece of metal. I put the large end of the rounded pointed metal, into the vice, and then with a rubber and or raw hide mallet, gently tapped the copper while the pointed object was perpendicular to the radius of the copper piece.

    I subjected the pointy end to many more and harder blows. It was much easier then I thought it would be.

    It only took about five minutes. Copper is easy though.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    16

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    get a pipefitter blue book and the layout for all sizes ecc and conc reducers is in there and if u know how to read it you can lay it out in about 5 min

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,935

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Quote Originally Posted by casey_hill_1984 View Post
    get a pipefitter blue book and the layout for all sizes ecc and conc reducers is in there and if u know how to read it you can lay it out in about 5 min

    The only problem is that when you are making a few of the same parts. You have to first create templates that work. Or are capable of fastening together, fitting. The circumference you are going to have to roll on a flat to get the length. Or roll a piece of metal around the extra large piece you cut to mark it for circumference length.

    In other words you know the radius, you know the angle and can mark and figure for them. But you do not know the length needed for the circumference, other then on paper. If your part is critical, it can be a pain to mark the length exactly. That is why I use cadd.

    Also when you use these methods the angle at the end of the funnel has to be coordinated back to the vertex. So first you over size the piece. Then either roll it out or use a rolled piece of metal the right size to mark it. Then you have to mark back to the vertex, to cut the end on the right angle. The cadd does all that for you.

    Also when you start laying critical stuff out with dividers it can be a pain to use the dividers totally accurately. But for duct work yea, we use dividers, we roll out stuff to length, on the bench that has a mark on it.

    When we layout square to rounds we cheat all the time. We make the funnel extra long and smaller then we need it. When we find the sweet spot, where the funnel meets the collar diameter, then we cut the funnel, where it needs it. Then we cut the collar to match the overall length of the part. Ha-ha.
    A plasma tables software does this in one motion.

    But if you want nice neat solder joints, you probably want to lay it out in cadd or on a plasma table. It is hard to do because you have to figure for the middle or center line, of the material of the round drawing, being the uncut length of the material.
    Parts that have to fit inside, another standard part in the field, benefit from doing that.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    16

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    these are not completly rolled cones we are talking abou i assume because that woul be impossible to do with 1/8 plate these redocers are flat pieces bent in trogether
    pipefitter/welder 7 yrs
    general foreman 2 yrs
    working in the fabrication, chemical and petrochemical industry 7 yrs
    NCCER CERTIFIED-PIPEFITTER, IRONWORKER, WELDER

    STOP SNITCHING

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,935

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Quote Originally Posted by casey_hill_1984 View Post
    these are not completly rolled cones we are talking abou i assume because that woul be impossible to do with 1/8 plate these redocers are flat pieces bent in trogether


    They do make funnel and cone rollers. You can get a wide assortment of roller cones, to roll, your funnels or cones. But the roller cone, has to match your radius to some extent.


    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

  24. #24

    Smile Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    Quote Originally Posted by hotrodder View Post
    screenshot of tyharness 'conetran'

    Name:  cone.jpg
Views: 14972
Size:  71.5 KB

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    9

    Re: Layout of eccentric cone

    There is a Sheet Metal Layout Calculator that fits in your shirt pocket that will layout flat patterns for Cones that are (C/L or Eccentric\Offset including Pitched), Square to Rounds that are (C/L or Eccentric\Offset), Round Elbows, Tee's/Saddle's at any angle including the hole layout and much more. It reads out in both Decimal and Fractional to the closest 1/32", 1/16", 1/8", 1/4" or what ever you prefer. using a large Blk.& White screen. It comes with a 100 plus page Visual Manual for people that can read a drawing easier than they can read the written word. You just transfer the dimensions the calculator gives you to your material starting with a BaseLine. You can copy a page to follow from the Visual Manual to take out in the shop for reference if you don't know the Layout. It really speeds up a job and is mathematically DEAD ACCURATE and you don't need to know any math. It also has a lot of Utility programs like solving triangles,(90` & Oblique), Finding Arcs and Radius's, layout for a perfect Ellipse including the circumference,(Used for penetrating a deck or wall with a pipe at any angle), length of any ARC & DEG and much, much more. Its worth looking at, the website is www.sheetmetallayoutcalculator.com

    Name:  9860 GII_Flat-BEST_192x383.jpg
Views: 6014
Size:  106.1 KB
    Last edited by Rickster; 02-06-2012 at 10:47 PM. Reason: Add Text

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
RSS | Home | Penton Media | Contact Us | Subscribe | For Advertisers | Terms of Use | Privacy Statement