Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?
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  1. #1
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    Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    the people I have talked to communicate that a stick weld joint/seam is stronger then a mig weld.
    Is this so?
    Comparable amperage welders welding same material, which is stronger weld.
    Mig is easy and looks good, but does it penetrate the steel being welded like the stick weld?
    Any comments or explanations?

  2. #2
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    A properly executed Mig weld is just as strong as a properly executed stick weld.
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    If you know what your doing, by all means yes. If you are some ham fisted monkey with a 110 MIG trying to repair a D9 hell no.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    I would say they are both equal in strength if the welds are both equally well done, but an arc welder needs less amps than a Mig to produce the same result.

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  5. #5
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    MIG welds should compare to any other low-hyrdogen weld. They tend to be much tougher than many of the stick welding practices, 6010, 6011, 6013, 7014, etc... I always hate dealing with dual-shield tacks because they are very hard to break if you get them wrong.

    We run a lot of dual-shield wire where I work but our welders always complain when we make them do it on pipe. Dual-shield wire is a low hydrogen process and compares to 7018 with a finished weld. The difference is that stick gives you better control over blowing through so its easier to produce a proper full penetration weld with no porosity using stick welding. This is very advantageous for pipe welding where the inside of the pipe is not accessible. But... if the backside is accessible, wire feed is preferred for speed reasons. The process typically involves one pass on the backside, a back gouge on the front side, then 2-3 passes on the front. This gives full penetration with much less skill and time involved. There is no difference in strength.

  6. #6
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Any weld from any machine in the end should be as strong if not stronger than the base metal. If its not your doing it wrong.

  7. #7
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by TozziWelding View Post
    If you know what your doing, by all means yes. If you are some ham fisted monkey with a 110 MIG trying to repair a D9 hell no.
    Then why do they have settings all the way up to D-10?
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?


  9. #9
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldendum View Post
    Then why do they have settings all the way up to D-10?
    I think he was reffering to a D-9 Caterpillar Dozer, not the settings on that little MIG machine. You could set it(the little MIG) to D9 or 10 and it still wouldn't be up to snuff to weld anything on one of those dozers.

  10. #10
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bistineau View Post
    I think he was reffering to a D-9 Caterpillar Dozer, not the settings on that little MIG machine. You could set it(the little MIG) to D9 or 10 and it still wouldn't be up to snuff to weld anything on one of those dozers.
    I think that was one of those joke things.
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Awhile back I did some fillet weld break tests with different rods, and Lincoln's L-56 Mig wire.
    6013 broke with only 3-blows of a 4-pound hammer.
    6011 = 8-blows.
    7014 = 10-blows.
    6010 5P-Plus = 10-blows.
    7018 cold never seen the inside of an oven = 18-blows.
    7018 right out of the oven = 23-blows.
    L-56 = 29-blows.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    interesting, Thanks CEP
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  13. #13
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by burntside bob View Post
    Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?
    Yes the mig process does is as strong as stick.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Yes and no.

    Yes they can both produce an equal strength weld when done properly.

    No in that a mig is capable of making a nice appearing weld with no penetration/strength if not done properly while a poor stick weld is more obvious when not done properly.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    It all comes down to filler material. Technically speaking both er-70 (GMAW filler) and 7018 (SMAW filler) have the same tensile strength rating, so in theory if the weld were executed for optimal penetration and weld size were the same in both processes then they should, again in theory, be equal.

    Again in theory not accounting for weldor error (experience), situation, time of day, air temp, ect., ect.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldendum View Post
    Then why do they have settings all the way up to D-10?


    I assume that was just a joke, as that was my first welder. The higher wire feed speeds are pretty much just for loading wire. If I remember right, at the "D" power setting, recommended wire feed speed is 1.5, with .035 flux core. My little weldpack 100 never liked that "D" setting, always seemed to struggle with it. Did fine on "C".

    To the OP, I think the problem with MIG welders is that it is easy to run them a little cold, or with your wire speed too high, and get "proud" welds that look thick, and big, but don't penetrate deeply.

    If I am welding a new material, I will weld a few scraps, and check my penetration.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by norite View Post
    Yes and no.

    Yes they can both produce an equal strength weld when done properly.

    No in that a mig is capable of making a nice appearing weld with no penetration/strength if not done properly while a poor stick weld is more obvious when not done properly.
    I agree. I think its way to easy to run a bead with MIG that looks good but lacks penetration. With stick it stands out like a sore thumb if you don't have penetration. I think with stick the machine does more of the work and with MIG the operator can make the weld look good (different technic) with the settings too cold. My 2 cents.

  18. #18
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by CEP View Post
    Awhile back I did some fillet weld break tests with different rods, and Lincoln's L-56 Mig wire.
    6013 broke with only 3-blows of a 4-pound hammer.
    6011 = 8-blows.
    7014 = 10-blows.
    6010 5P-Plus = 10-blows.
    7018 cold never seen the inside of an oven = 18-blows.
    7018 right out of the oven = 23-blows.
    L-56 = 29-blows.
    That's a lot of blowin'. :-)
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  19. #19
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by TozziWelding View Post
    If you know what your doing, by all means yes. If you are some ham fisted monkey with a 110 MIG trying to repair a D9 hell no.
    Depends on what part of the D9. How about cab sheet metal?


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  20. #20
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    See AWS Presentation (PowerPoint) slide show here:

    http://www.aws.org/educators/Library/0000/000506.ppt#1

    Slide # 14 shows a MIG machine set for 215 amps. Is this "hot" enough for repairing a D9?

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  21. #21
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Looks to me like 215 inches per minute at 20.1 volts.

  22. #22
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Don't seem to have power point on this computer ,but 20.1 volts would only be about 120 amps.
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  23. #23
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    Re: Settle a question does a mig weld is strong as a stick weld?

    Yeh the little amber light was lit up by the 'IPM' designation. So you'd have to know the size of the wire and it's apx burn off rates to get an idea of the amps.
    Last edited by Sandy; 01-16-2013 at 09:14 PM.
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