Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong
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  1. #1
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    Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong

    We will let the photos speak for themsevles.






    I have never dealt with ceramic tape welds before. One side came out perfect one side failed miserably. Perfect side was root passed same day tape was installed other side was rooted one day later. Our speculation is that the tape absorbed moisture overnight and the water steamed out during the welding process to cause porosity. It is the only thing we can come up with that doesn't involve shielding gas coverage problems. We're just trying to stick the shipyard for the bill for the rework because this is clearly unacceptable. Process is .052 ESAB dual shield wire with CO2 shield on ceramic tape, 3/8" thick plate.

  2. #2
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    Re: Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong

    I would say by looking at that its most definitely gotta be the backing strip or gas coverage problems. While i have never encountered that particular problem it sounds very plausible.

    The ceramic backing bars i have dealt with have all be very porous type of ceramic that would seem to be susceptible to absorbing moisture.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong

    Why continue to run and finish a long length porous weld, when it becomes obvious that something's not right?
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  4. #4
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    Re: Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong

    why are you using CO2 and not 75/25? is that beveled on the overhead side?
    Last edited by TimmyTIG; 01-29-2013 at 05:50 AM.

  5. #5
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    Re: Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong

    It would seem that the person welding would have payed attention to how it was welding and stopped rather than continuing the complete weld.

    As far as trying to make the ship yard pay to repair for a welders mistake - that seems like they way of a lot of todays people are - Do something wrong then blame someone else and try to make them pay. Seems like the shipyard needs to be looking for some qualified welders to do their work for them.

  6. #6
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    Re: Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong

    agreed on the welder not paying attention. As far as the strait C02 vs 75/25 the c02 is far cheaper and offers superior dig characteristics on dual shield welding applications
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  7. #7
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    Re: Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by dave powelson View Post
    Why continue to run and finish a long length porous weld, when it becomes obvious that something's not right?
    That is what baffles us. These guys are programmed to pull the trigger they make great welds most of the time but when they don't they just keep on going. They rooted the entire perimeter of the patch before they decided things were going wrong. Roughly 2/3rds of the weld had to be removed. They even tried to cap on top of the bad weld before they admitted there was a problem.

    For process, it's straight CO2. All dual shield welding I have seen is straight CO2. Minimal wind that day but barricades were still in place.

    Weld was beveled on both sides but there is no overhead component to the weld with ceramic tape welding.
    Last edited by 76GMC1500; 01-30-2013 at 01:45 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong

    note: Some FCAW-G wires are made to run with 100% CO2 ,some are made to run with argon-CO2 blends, and some can run with either. RTFM!!!

    example: AWS E71T-1C wire runs with CO2 only.

    AWS E71T-1M runs with mixed gas (C25 or higher argon mixes) only.

    A wire classed as E71T-1C, E71T-1M, E71T-9C, E71T-9M meets the specs for multiple AWS classes and can run either 100% CO2 (the C in the spec call out) or mixed gas (the M in the spec call out) like C25.

    But you probably already knew all that.

    ESAB currently lists 15 different DualShield FCAW-G wires for use on/with mild steel (AWS A5.20 spec). Some use 100% CO2, some use C25 or similar, some can use either straight CO2 or mixed gas. Some can use straight CO2 if doing a single-pass weld, but call for Ar/CO2 blends if doing multi-pass welds.

    As to the porosity, yeah it's pretty bad. Complete grind out and redo there.

    Maybe a quick call to ESAB for some tech help, maybe they have some possible insight beyond (yeah, grind out and redo). 1-800-ESAB123

    or

    Do you have a question about welding or cutting that you can't find the answer to? Let ESAB's experts help. We have welding application experts standing by to help you find the solution to your problem.

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    Possible porosity causes with the bad welds done the day after the ceramic backing tape was applied might be, as you suspect, moisture related. Overnight condensation in the weld gap/groove and/or in/on the ceramic backing tape itself. If condensation was the issue, it might have been 'corrected' with some mild preheat before welding (ESAB's ceramic backing tape specs out as usable with up to 500F preheat).

    If not moisture/condensation, then next most likely causes would be the filler wire itself (they didn't leave the spool in the feeder out all night did they?), or shielding gas issues (leaky gas connection, didn't purge the line before welding, bad gas, too high/low gas flow rate, wind blowing the shielding gas away, etc. The 'usual' stuff )

    And agreed. Welder(s) should have noticed the weld not being 'right' and stopped and figured it out right then. Not just keep pouring weld on.

    Parameters, process, materials (filler, base material, gas) all need to be 'right' for good welds. Have had a few times when everything was set up per-the-book and the weld was still NG. Had to slightly adjust parameters (run slightly 'hotter') and use a small weave instead of a stringer to give the puddle enough time to 'outgas' otherwise I had horrible porosity (with the 'book' parameters and the 'recommended' stringer bead).
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  9. #9
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    Re: Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong

    I take it most of you have never worked in a shipyard before... I have seen way worse come from "qualified ABS weldors" haha this is nothing compared to some of the stuff I've seen...

  10. #10
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    Re: Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong

    This wouldn't be a shipyard in Canada, at the lake Ont end of the Welland Canal. The vessel wouldn't be Canadian Coast Guard would it?

  11. #11
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    Re: Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong

    This is a ship assist tug in the San Francisco bay area.

  12. #12
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    Re: Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by sftyvlv View Post
    This wouldn't be a shipyard in Canada, at the lake Ont end of the Welland Canal. The vessel wouldn't be Canadian Coast Guard would it?
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  13. #13
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    Re: Ceramic Tape Welding Gone Wrong

    Thanks Stump, worked at PWDD a few years ago and had this problem. Put the ceramics on one shift next shift went to weld instant "aero bar". We used Co2 and Lincoln 71T series wire. Can't remember the parameters, but I think it came down to moisture causing the problem.

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