Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225
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  1. #1

    Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    Greetings All
    I've narrowed it down to these two welder, they are both in the price range I can afford and fit my application, motorsports (club racing). I'll be welding tubing for the roll cage as well as suspension links, mounts, etc. I believe that both will get job done without issue. Maybe it's simply a matter of brand preference, but I'd appreciate any enlightenment to the functional differences that may exist between the two.
    Thanks in advance
    Chris

    Lincoln® Precision TIG® 225 Ready-Pak With Cart AC/DC TIG Welder, 208/230 Volt, Single Phase, 60 Hertz

    Miller® Syncrowave® 200 TIG Welder 208/230 Volts, Single Phase, 50/60 Hertz With TIG Runner

  2. #2
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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    They are pretty much the same animal. If the price is equal, give or take, 25 amps is actually a LOT when you are welding aluminum at the maximum output. Both machines have a strong reputation, you really can't go wrong with them. If it were me, the Lincoln wins by 25 amps.
    I think she is Bi-polar. She is a bear sometimes. Does this make her a BiPolar bear????

  3. #3
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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    I have used both.
    I like the lincoln for the smaller tigs (like the Pt225 and below) and I like the millers for the bigger tigs (250+ size)
    The PT225 is easier to set up and use than the syncro 200. The pulse is nice to see on the PT and the pedal is built a lot better. I dont care what anyone else says, the 30 amps is alot of difference (yes thats right, the Lincoln puts out 30 more than the Miller). Also the arc start on the Lincoln is so much better, this is the difference between night, and day on the thin stuff.
    It was an easy choice for me, and I have never been disapointed with my PT225

  4. #4
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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    Quote Originally Posted by ace4059 View Post
    I have used both.
    I like the lincoln for the smaller tigs (like the Pt225 and below) and I like the millers for the bigger tigs (250+ size)
    The PT225 is easier to set up and use than the syncro 200. The pulse is nice to see on the PT and the pedal is built a lot better. I dont care what anyone else says, the 30 amps is alot of difference (yes thats right, the Lincoln puts out 30 more than the Miller). Also the arc start on the Lincoln is so much better, this is the difference between night, and day on the thin stuff.
    It was an easy choice for me, and I have never been disapointed with my PT225
    I find your post very interesting. I am getting a tig very soon and will be mostly doing thin material but want something that can do heavyer stuff when needed. I have tried both out and was of a mind to get the miller Syncro 200. The miller has a better duty cycle and a feature or two more. For those reasons I was going miller. I thought the HF start on the Syncro was better as well. After reading your post I might need to check it all out again.

    Thnaks for your opinion and thoughts
    Miller DVI2
    Lincoln Precision Tig 225
    Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38
    Everything else needed.

  5. #5

    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    Thanks guys. It's interesting, I spoke with the instructor at the community college last night and had a similar response. Hi first questions was "will you be doing aluminum?" if you you really want at least 250 amps for 1/4 inch due to it's ability to conduct heat. But we both agreed that I probably wont be welding anything that thick in AL.

    His final comment was, they are both quality machines, understand the finer points of the features go try them.

    It's funny, I hadn't seen this on their websites until he showed me, but both have a "Competitive Comparison" link that compares the two. As you might have guessed, the Lincoln comparison shows the PT as the clear choice and the Miller comparison shows the Synco as the one to have.... I'll have to study these......
    Miller:
    http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...owave_200.html
    Lincoln:
    http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ture/e3372.pdf

  6. #6
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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    It doesnt sound like your taasks will require constant full amps 10 minutes of use. is duty cycle really an issue...will you be a full amps or partial? partial amps duty cycle is way better than full..if you are at full maybe you need the extrsa 30 amps in the red box...

  7. #7
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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    Both are big, reliable machines.

    When you get down to the technical aspects behind both, the technology of the Millers are ahead of the Lincolns. The pulse adjustments/characteristics and the AC balance adjustments of the Miller are what takes the cake. No, it doesn't have the range of a Dynasty, but its further along than the Lincoln is. When I'm trying to weld on dirty aluminum or thin sheet, I don't want Lincoln's "auto" settings telling me how to do my job.

  8. #8

    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    I won't be doing production work, so duty cycle is not a real issue. My level of accomplishment has plenty of room for improvement, so I would likely benefit from the auto-settings today, but I would like to be a the point where I really know what's happening and take advantage of the pulse control and AC balance. Given that I think Miller is looking better

    The only question that remains for me then is the capabilities with aluminum. Just as a preface, I've never welded this material before and don't expect to do a lot of it, but it would be nice to be able to make a bracket or repair components that crack made of that material. I'n thinking about small cast pieces you might find in the engine compartment.

    My current understanding (no pun intended) about aluminium is that amperage is king given that material's capability to disapate heat. In terms of things that can be accomplished with the machines, what does the incremental gain look like for the Lincoln over the Miller?

    Thanks again, this is actually helping me understand what I need much better.
    Chris

  9. #9
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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    Just my 2 cents worth , but I suspect that if you are welding something ( aluminum ) that requires every last amp that your machine can put out , than I suspect that you probably would be much better served by a larger machine .
    I have welded 3/16 aluminum with the SW200 and it did just fine . The operator was the biggest issue , not the machine . The adjustability of the pulse / balance / arc starts make the SW200 a nice machine . Stick on the SW is sweet too .
    Honestly , I don't know if one is really any better than the other . For me , the decision was made based upon local dealer support , accesories , and previous Miller experience .
    It's never let me down . Ever . I just wish that I could weld as good as the machine is capable of .

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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    Quote Originally Posted by Supe View Post
    Both are big, reliable machines.

    When you get down to the technical aspects behind both, the technology of the Millers are ahead of the Lincolns. The pulse adjustments/characteristics and the AC balance adjustments of the Miller are what takes the cake. No, it doesn't have the range of a Dynasty, but its further along than the Lincoln is. When I'm trying to weld on dirty aluminum or thin sheet, I don't want Lincoln's "auto" settings telling me how to do my job.

    I agree with this 100% , Good post
    Miller DVI2
    Lincoln Precision Tig 225
    Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38
    Everything else needed.

  11. #11
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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    Quote Originally Posted by Supe View Post
    When I'm trying to weld on dirty aluminum or thin sheet, I don't want Lincoln's "auto" settings telling me how to do my job.
    I though almost the same thing, but it was about the MIller, the Miller has an auto post flow (who wants auto post flow I thought). But I later learned you can change it with a few pushes of a button.

    Well you can also change the Lincoln ac balance kinda like the auto post flow on the miller, but easier. The lincoln auto setting can be changed with the turn of the knob. the left side of the knob is auto set, then you turn it to the right a little and it is in cleaning mode and the farther right is for penetration. Very simple to use.
    Last edited by ace4059; 10-17-2008 at 07:33 PM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    i bought the pt225 in july. i did just as you are, i researched everything i could about the two and in the end the only thing that i really liked better about the miller was that it was cheaper and comes with this stick kit. my welding shop gave me 20ft of 2awg wire and a stinger for free. i have not found a single thing i dislike about the lincoln. it runs very well in both tig and stick.
    weldpack 3200 squirtgun
    precision tig 225 with cart
    prostar o/a setup with full size bottles

  13. #13
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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    I am like Citterly trying to decide between the two models. I would love a Dynasty as would most folks but its simply not in the budget cards. Was looking at the new Miller Diversion for awhile but decided it lacks enough 'smoke' on the top end and even though I don't plan on doing 3/16"+ aluminum I know my luck is the first thing I'd need to weld with it aluminum wise would be out if its range. So I am back to deciding between the PT and Syncro.

    Having no aluminum experience, which is better to have between the two machines- the 225 amps of the Lincoln but with a small 10% duty cycle-or the 200 amps of the Syncro with a 20% duty cycle? Even with the 1 amp per .001 of material rule it seems neither machine will be able to do 1/4" aluminum or is this wrong? Seems I read on Millers site due to the thermal conductivity of aluminum you need to add about 25% more amps to the 1amp per .001 rule. So if that is true neither machine can do 1/4" aluminum? Any insight you knowledgeable and experienced guys can shed would be most appreciated.

    My other concern and more likely probable use for the machine will be thin mild steel sheet (auto panels) 24 to 18 guage. So which machine has better starting at the low end? Lincoln touts its MicroStart technology and Miller their 'SyncroStart--can anyone comment which is better? Better being defined as nice smooth consistent starts without blowing thru.

    On the Lincolns- I like their mobile setup better- they give you a place to store the foot pedal and the cart seems better built. The parts compartment at the top of the machine seems handy and myself I like their foot pedal better. I don't like the permanently connected 'ground' /work cable though. I also dislike the lack of the 'quanitative' controls for pulse and balance that the Millers have. I prefer to have a setup that gives me a number that I can jot down for future use vs a guess as to exactly where the knob was last time that worked so well. I also like the removable lifting eye on the Lincolns- why Miller makes theirs permanent is to me a pain.

    I live in "red' country-while there are some 'blue' dealers, they don't seem to be as well stocked as the Lincoln stores. I spent a day going to look at the 'blue' machines and not ONE dealer had ANY Tigs units on or to display! So I haven't been able to even see a Synrowave and hate to buy sight unseen anything. From what I can see online I like as I said above the numerical read out of the Millers . As Supe stated it seems Miller is ahead of Lincoln but the lack of a dealer that even has one in stock locally makes me concerned re possible repair work. The lack of used Syncrowave 200s on ebay however tells me those who have them must be really happy with them?

    I have called both Lincoln and Miller- there is simply NO comparison in 'customer support' Miller wins hands down- the guys there will give you information overload! Lincoln by comparison you can only talk to 'sales' people who need to learn more about their products. The guy I talked to didn't even know that Lincoln is now offering (for extra cost) an extended warranty. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

    So Any insight from those who have used both machines that address my concerns would be most appreciated. I think from my perspective I like the Lincolns for their ergonomics but the Millers from their adjustability of their welding parameters. In short I want the best each! but since you can't have that need to figure out what I need the most or is the handiest in terms of features.
    Gary

  14. #14

    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    So I gathered one more piece of information that I'm curious if anyone has practical experience with. There are two instructor at the college where I'm taking classes. I was able to speak with the other tonight and I posed the question of aluminum welding to him with these two machines given their respective maximum amperage.

    He said that it didn't matter because they were both torch limited. Since they were both NOT liquid cooled, then the max you could practically run without overheating the torch was 150 amps.

    Does this sound right? I have no reason not to believe him, he never steered me wrong and he's been doing this his whole life and he's got a bunch of gray hair....

    Your thoughts on this?

    Thanks!
    Chris

  15. #15
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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    You can buy them both with water cooled setups ready to go, or you can add an aftermarket setup which is usually significantly cheaper.

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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    you can buy an air cooled torch good for up to the full output of the machine. the torch that comes with it is only good for up to 150. better get some thick gloves.
    weldpack 3200 squirtgun
    precision tig 225 with cart
    prostar o/a setup with full size bottles

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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    Quote Originally Posted by citterly View Post
    So I gathered one more piece of information that I'm curious if anyone has practical experience with. There are two instructor at the college where I'm taking classes. I was able to speak with the other tonight and I posed the question of aluminum welding to him with these two machines given their respective maximum amperage.

    He said that it didn't matter because they were both torch limited. Since they were both NOT liquid cooled, then the max you could practically run without overheating the torch was 150 amps.

    Does this sound right? I have no reason not to believe him, he never steered me wrong and he's been doing this his whole life and he's got a bunch of gray hair....

    Your thoughts on this?

    Thanks!
    Chris
    You can run wide open for a few minutes on AC without liquid cooling. But, I DID fry a 150 air cooled torch that came with my Invertec 205. On DC, the torch will hardly heat up, the heat all goes into the part. For aluminum, either you wind up buying a 300A torch for air cooled, or you buy the water cooled torch. It took me a good run on some 1/4" material, and after I pushed it for a while, the torch was so hot, I could barely hold it. It smelled like burning rubber, and the threads in the collet got warped.
    I think she is Bi-polar. She is a bear sometimes. Does this make her a BiPolar bear????

  18. #18

    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    The instructors are very correct. To weld even 3/16 alum. for more than about 2 or 3 inches, the torch is going to start smoking and melting. For aluminum welding a liquid cooled torch is really necessary for welding anything more than a small stitch or tack. A smaller amperage water cooled torch will get you there even for heavier ( up to about 1/2 " or so) if you simply pre-heat the material with a torch. As far as all the controls go, if you are doing a really wide variety of jobs, with various alloys and thicknesses, in different positions, the important things are to position, and clean, clean, clean the material, keep your tungsten shielded and clean with good gas coverage, and make your weld continuous. It usually takes a greater amount of amperage to get your weld started because of the thermal conductivity of the material, (which brings in the advantage of the pre-heating) but once it has heated up, lowering the amperage at the pedal will keep your weld from being overheated and your puddle from getting dirty. All this considered, developing a working knowledge of that sweet spot temperature wise will yield the best results. If your weld is too hot, you can develop oxides in your weld contaminating the puddle, if your weld is too cold, you aren't really even welding you are just melting filler rod and dripping on to the base metal. For most all positions and types of aluminum, filler rod needs to be added or your weld will crack when it cools. The only real exception, in my experience, is a corner to corner (with about a 30% lap) weld. All others require the addition of filler rod. It takes some amperage to weld aluminum, but it really requires more skill and knowledge than a great machine. The new technologies do make a good welder better, but the machine will not replace the skill.

  19. #19
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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    for the kind of money your talking about if buying these new I would consider the HTP221

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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    I run my PT 185 wide open on AC for 3/16" often. Sure, the torch gets hot. I've had a few collets warp, but I can definitely make more than 2-3" beads with my 17 torch. I'll run 6-8" beads before I give the machine a rest. Just be mindful of your duty cycle.
    Lincoln Precision Tig 185
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  21. #21
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    Re: Syncrowave 200 vs. Precision TIG 225

    For what it's worth, this thread is five years old. Some of the information given may be outdated.

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