aluminum sticks (E4043)
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  1. #1
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    aluminum sticks (E4043)

    I came across some posts about these but one question was unanswered:
    Do these work with AC or DC?

    Is it advisable to try these on small (thin) boat repairs?

    thanks

  2. #2
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    okay I found DC reverse on google,


    but I still want to hear what you say

  3. #3
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    best to tig i weld aluminum boats allthe time
    dont think a stick machine will go low enough
    to do a good job
    if it were my boat i d find a tigger

  4. #4
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Thanks Doc.
    You say "wont go low enough".
    Is there a machine that will? How low must it be, and does voltage have some role in the equation? .....like say, 24 volts 30 amps wont work, but 12 (or 50) volts and 30 amps will work?

    Some machines are marked for low amps, is it false advertizing?
    Thanks for the info

  5. #5
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Arc welding of aluminum ( meaning traditional "stick") is typically used on material 1/4" or more in thickness. If your doing a boat hull its probably not advisable just due to the lack of control with that thickness and that process. If you dont have a tig, just OA torch weld it. If you dont have an OA torch.....then find someone else to do it. And please dont use flea market zinc "brazing" rods that people use with a propane torch.

  6. #6
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    i use an idealarc 250 tig machine set at:
    range 25-100 with current control at 4-5
    3/32 tung 1/16 filler
    14 cfm arrgon

  7. #7
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Quote Originally Posted by grey View Post
    I came across some posts about these but one question was unanswered:
    Do these work with AC or DC?

    Is it advisable to try these on small (thin) boat repairs?

    thanks
    I should clarify:
    these are large holes in a small boat. Thin material.
    It has gashes 5 inch long and an inch wide at the most. Some material can be bent/ pounded back. I thought about using thicker material to just patch the damaged area.


    DC stick machine wont work (with thicker patch material on thin sheet)?

    Thanks fot the help. I dont want to buy rods that only burn holes. I may not have the experience to do it with O/A. But I could try, and I do have some scraps to practice with.

  8. #8
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Quote Originally Posted by grey View Post
    I came across some posts about these but one question was unanswered:
    Do these work with AC or DC?

    Is it advisable to try these on small (thin) boat repairs?

    thanks
    Awnswer - NO

    Won't work. Also the Aluminum stick electrodes are VERY expensive and if you leave them out of the container even ONE night all of the flux just falls off from moisture in the air.

    Lots of canoes need to be rescued BUT the only way is to rivit more aluminum on the bottom. You would need an english wheel and it would not be worth all the trouble.

    Even with a Miller syncrowave 250 and enxperienced welder it would be impossible.

    The best method would be patches with rivets-aircraft style.
    Last edited by Donald Branscom; 02-26-2009 at 07:35 PM.
    AWS certified welding inspector
    AWS certified welder

  9. #9

    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Experienced stick welders can make sound repairs on some very thin alu with stick, but it's not a preferred method.

    I don't know what brand of rod these guys are using but I've never had flux problems with rods that have ridden in trucks for several months at a time.
    We repaired quite a few small water storage tanks that had corroded thru using stick several years ago with very experienced welders (in pretty remote locations) so it really can be done but unless you don't have any choice there are ways that are easier.

    JTMcC.

  10. #10
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    being that you have those biga h0les i would go with the patches, sealer,and rivets
    idea. there is a lot of flex on the bottoms of aluminum boats
    be a shame to be relaxing enjoying a fishing day and then sink
    try the patch&seal first if the dont work then weld it
    where are you located might be someone in your area
    that might be able to help ya

  11. #11
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    I went back to look at this boat and the HOLES were not as big as 1 inch. I saw the silicone and thought it was daylight. (Been flashed too many times?)

    So, these are cracks of up to 3/8 x 5 inch

    I talked to the Jr. College proffessor and he said he will get-r-dun.... but what's the value of that?

    The 1/8 Hobart Rods it says get 700F and let the metal melt the rod at that temperture....that sounds like braizing (well, it is braizing). I have not bought the rods yet.
    Hobart didnt mention a paste flux, but I think it would help.

    I am practicing with some old cooking pots and the torch, and it easy to burn through.

  12. #12
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Quote Originally Posted by makoman1860 View Post
    And please dont use flea market zinc "brazing" rods that people use with a propane torch.

    I found some Hobart rods that were in my price range. I dont know if they were zink.

    I dont think I can control OA well enough with the torch I have . I am practicing with Air / acytelene now. I can make a comparable thickness cooking pot begin to melt without burning through. I dont know if that is making the metal weaker


    Thanks.

  13. #13

    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Quote Originally Posted by grey View Post
    I can make a comparable thickness cooking pot begin to melt without burning through. I dont know if that is making the metal weaker


    Thanks.

    probably makin the cook mad

    JTMcC.

  14. #14
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Quote Originally Posted by grey View Post
    I found some Hobart rods that were in my price range. I dont know if they were zink.

    I dont think I can control OA well enough with the torch I have . I am practicing with Air / acytelene now. I can make a comparable thickness cooking pot begin to melt without burning through. I dont know if that is making the metal weaker


    Thanks.
    Forget it, thats the material I was telling you to avoid. Just take it to someone else, thats my thoughts on it.

  15. #15
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    What is a good filler rod?

  16. #16
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Quote Originally Posted by JTMcC View Post
    probably makin the cook mad

    JTMcC.
    No I scored a supply aluminum pots and pans from a nearby house where the owner died.
    For some reason they had about 200 or more cooking pots. (That is just the aluminum - not the steel and iron.)

    Anyway, quite a variety, alot of very old pot metal stuff. Scrap yard will only give 25 cents a pound

  17. #17
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    308L stainless steel filler works well. Flows better, stronger.

  18. #18
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Quote Originally Posted by mrandrei View Post
    308L stainless steel filler works well. Flows better, stronger.


    Grey,
    The right way would be to use either 5356, 4043 or whatever the base material requires for the particular alloy. Now you can use these filler alloys with either a torch, tig , or mig etc. There is no Binford 3000 magic filler, and to be honest a welding repair like you are talking sounds way out of your league at this point. Choose another method or have someone else do it, we dont want to have to swimming home.

  19. #19
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    he!! if your close in 0kla id do it for you no cost just so you could go fishing
    well we could trade---- fish for welding----- allways barrder for fresh fish
    mmmmmmm fried fish hush puppies beans and taters mmmmmmmmm

  20. #20
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    You're dreaming if you thingk you're going to be able to fill a 3/8" wide x 5" long hole in an aluminum boat with a stick electrode. You need to weld a patch over it instead of trying to fill the hole. You'll also have alot better luck welding the aluminum with an ac tig welder, or a mig welder with a spool gun.
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  21. #21
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Quote Originally Posted by makoman1860 View Post


    sounds way out of your league at this point. .
    yup, that's why I am here.

    Speaking of alloy's, is a positive identification important? When I said "aluminum boat", did you assume a certain type alloy? Which? Would it be better to bend this into shape with heat (160-200F) or should I bang on it cold ( 70F)?

    I will be trying to patch with my old pots and pans. Do you forsee a problem with possibly mixing alloys?


    I dont have tig or mig;
    my operatin' budget aint that big.

    How's that song go?

  22. #22
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Quote Originally Posted by makoman1860 View Post


    sounds way out of your league at this point. .
    yup, that's why I am here.

    Speaking of alloy's, is a positive identification important? When I said "aluminum boat", did you assume a certain type alloy? Which? Would it be better to bend this into shape with heat (160-200F) or should I bang on it cold ( 70F)?

    I will be trying to patch with my old pots and pans. Do you forsee a problem with possibly mixing alloys?


    I dont have tig or mig;
    my operatin' budget aint that big.

    How's that song go?

  23. #23
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Quote Originally Posted by grey View Post

    I dont have tig or mig;
    my operatin' budget aint that big.
    got an old torch, that works on occasion

    if the wind is right, and with a little pursuasion

  24. #24
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Quote Originally Posted by mrandrei View Post
    308L stainless steel filler works well. Flows better, stronger.
    You cannot weld aluminum with 308L stainless filler wire.
    Be careful what info you give out. Sombody might actually take your advice.
    AWS certified welding inspector
    AWS certified welder

  25. #25
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    Re: aluminum sticks (E4043)

    Grey, esab makes an aluminum brazing paste that will work for your application, and is not to bad to use. I have not used any in a while, but I used to keep it on the truck to patch 3/32" thick aluminum irrigation pipe before I had AC tig capabilities on the truck. Cut a piece aluminum large enough to cover the hole extending a couple inches out, and then put the paste all around the hole where the patch will go and take a torch and heat it up until it flows and bonds. It may be worth looking into. Don;t even try the 308. You can't weld aluminum with stainless period.
    I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......

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