EverLast VS Longevity Vs HyperthermTest
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  1. #1
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    EverLast VS Longevity Vs HyperthermTest

    Well folks I now have both units in my shop .

    Now when I received the Everlast unit I post its review in the Everlast forum. But since this is my first real comparison of the two units side by side I am posting this also in the Other Manufacturers Forum.

    Please don't burn me for thismove to the Other Manufacturers Forum! But since this test is going to be an honest and fair evaluation and test of the two manufacturers unit I felt it best to post this in the Other Manufacturers Forum. There the two manufacturers can view the evaluation and test and provide their appropriate responses, And no one can say this has been edited by either manufacturer.



    Well folks the Longevity ForceCut LP-60D unit arrived today

    It was good to see that they used UPS instead of DHL cause as we all know DHL has a history of Gorilla's handling the packages (or at least it seems that way). Box in good shape! opened box all appeared undamaged.

    1 st I noticed the overall size & weight of the Longevity unit is small than the Everlast.

    2 nd I noticed that the Longevity unit is a CE unit and does not contain a power plug on the end of the power cord. Comparison: The Everlast unit was also a CE unit that did not possess a power plug on the end of it power cord as well. This is something the manufacturers/sellers should offer.

    3 rd I noticed the Longevity unit does have a water separator/filter. The Everlast did not.

    4 th I noticed the difference in torch. Very considerable difference in torch size and appearance. The Everlast torch appears much larger and is heavier. Both torches use electrical nylon wire ties to fasten the torch triggers onto the torches. I would be nice if both Everlast and Longevity could incorporate the trigger into the torch handle! Reason is that when you depress the trigger on a wire wrapped torch the trigger tends to slip and slid as you press the trigger to initiate your arc. When the trigger is incorporated into the torch you do not have this problem. Hopefully this will someday fixed or they can glue the trigger to the torch to prevent slippage. The consumables from Everlast also appear much more industrial in size and strengths.

    5 th I noticed the lack of a owners manual along with the Longevity unit. Everlast did have a manual with their unit but like I said in my Everlast post the manual needs a substantial revision! But at least the manual did provide some info on the front panel features.
    Recommend Longevity include a manual with their units. I would imagine that like Everlast Longevity is also working on their manual. Problem is that for buyers of either unit the lack of a good manual only makes the plasma experience worse. especially if they are beginners with no welding, technical or electrical experience to help them.
    Strong Recommend for both Everlast and Longevity would be to look at what other manufacturers include with their units. example Hypertherm includes one of the best Owners Manuals I have ever seen, also includes a Quick Setup Card, a 4 page guide of just the torch parts, assembly and consumables, a Very Well made DVD again showing setup and operation. many other manufacturers are following Hypertherms Ownership package of materials

    6 th I noticed both manufacturers are using different circuitry and technology. Everlast is using IGBT technology and Longevity is using Mosfet technology.

    7 th The actual evaluation and testing of the two units will begin when I get back on my feet. Yep folks for those of you that have seen Big Foot posted tommorrow 11 March is the big day the sitches finally come out after being in there since 20th Feb. Once back on my feet I will be able to get all the materials I need for the actual performance testing.



    Please don't burn me for thismove to the Other Manufacturers Forum! But since this test is going to be an honest and fair evaluation and test of the two manufacturers unit I felt it best to post this in the Other Manufacturers Forum. There the two manufacturers can view the evaluation and test and provide their appropriate responses, And no one can say this has been edited by either manufacturer.

    Thanks,

    Tom

    Just to add on here that both units are also being evaluated & tested against my Hypertherm PowerMax 45 Plasma Cutter
    Last edited by specter; 03-10-2009 at 04:52 PM. Reason: addon
    Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.& 2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma Cutter

    Sorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.

  2. #2
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    Tom,

    Sorry for our manual. It is actually in PDF format and I went and emailed you the latest revision. We currently do not have the latest revision in print.

    Simon

    PS: Isnt it Everlast VS Longevity VS Hypertherm?
    Last edited by longevity-inc.com; 03-10-2009 at 05:00 PM.
    LONGEVITY Welding
    Longevity Global Inc.
    Phone: 877-566-4462

  3. #3
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    Yep that was my goof up . Sorry Itreid to go back and correct the title of the post but once the thread is posted you can only go back for up to 30 minutes and edit the body of the thread not the title.

    When I begin the actual side by side evaluation & test that goof up will be corrected to

    Everlast vs Longevity vs Hypertherm

    Each time I post I will also point out the difference in tecnology used in ciruitry & design as well as performance.

    Tom
    Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.& 2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma Cutter

    Sorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.

  4. #4
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    Specter,

    Just so you know, there are those of us out here that are anxiously awaiting your test. I am considering an Everlast IGBT unit, but have been patiently waiting to see what results you get with the test unit. What's going to happen to your test units?

    Thanks for taking your time to do this,

    Mike

  5. #5
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    Right now that is up to the folks at Everlast and Longevity. I have suggested what they can do with the units when I am through and those suggestions were previously posted in my challenge. I believe Longevity expressed that they my put up the unit in a contest. I have not heard what Everlast plans are for their unit. And as far the the Hypertherm PowerMax 45 that is my unit that I bought and paid for "I will not be giving that away at the end of the Evaluation and Test".

    Tom

    add on: I do not work for any of the manufacturers I will be Evaluating and Testing. Nor do I profit in any way for this Evaluation & Test
    Last edited by specter; 03-10-2009 at 06:13 PM. Reason: addon
    Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.& 2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma Cutter

    Sorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.

  6. #6
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    Hello Guys ..

    Just to clarify .. By the time new units will be in stock we will have new version manual available and all units will have a 220v plug on it. Water separator/filter will also be included in mass production batch.

    Mike , Nice to see you here!

  7. #7
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    Glad to hear that Oleg. I suggest going with the standard CSA plug. I already gave my suggestions on the manual so I will not repeat them again.

    Tom
    Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.& 2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma Cutter

    Sorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.

  8. #8
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    Aren't you taking a big chance?

    I looked at the longevity site and at the manual and at the picture of the back of the machine and I do not see any APPROVALS for North America. CE is for Europe. They are European regulations.

    It should have UL or CSA or cUL or something. TO the best of my knowledge your electrical inspectors can flip if they see it plugged in and in the case of a fire the insurance company will deny your claim for un-approved equipment.

    The sweetness of low price will be forgotten when you lose everything.

    If they want to do business in the US or Canada they should be willing to spend some money on approvals instead of putting their customers at financial risk.

    The mods should probably delete this thread and all other threads that reference this model, as it is an unsafe practice. I did not check other products but they are probably unsafe also.

  9. #9
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    As far as I know, there isn't any REQUIREMENT that things be inspected or tested by Underwrites Laboratories, even though it may be a good idea. As long as things are wired to code, there's nothing illegal going on. If one of these pieces of equipment were to be responsible for a structure fire, I'm sure that the insurance company might attempt to recover some of their money and the Consumer Product Safety Commission might become involved from a recall standpoint. I know for a fact that of all of the turkey fryers (sp?) that UL tested a few years ago, they would not certify any of them as safe and insurance companies were still paying for damage done to houses after fires.

    Mike

  10. #10
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    I think you're wrong.

    I just looked at the first Miller Plasma brochure I found and it is there large as life "tested to US and Canadian Standards".

    Everlast appears to me to be a manufacturer of LABELS and they don't want to spend a nickel on the product line.

  11. #11
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    I'm not defending any of these manufacturers, I'm just saying that I don't think that there's any thing to force them to do this testing and I don't believe that there's necessarily a danger here because they don't. Just because you found that another manufacturer states that their units are tested to US and Canadian standards doesn't tell you what those standards are, or who certified them. As a mechanical engineer, I can assure you that the majority of testing is done by manufacturer's in an effort to avoid liability in the case of a law suit, not because somebody requires it. I would be interested in what these 'standards' were, since I doubt very seriously that there is a 'plasma cutter' standard.

    What I do think is dangerous is that you want to ban any discussion about a whole line of products (apparently for any of the imported machines) based on the fact that you 'think' there might be an issue with their safety. By all means you're entitled to share your opinion, but your not entitled to censor information based on your own prejudices. What exactly is your safety concern with these machines?

    Mike

  12. #12
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    Ok folks I just came on and saw this. Please remember this is the evaluation and test of Everlast's Cut-60 vs Longevity's ForceCut LP-60D vs Hypertherm's PowerMax 45 Only those three manufacturers have agreed to this evaluation and test. Miller has Not so I cannot comment on their units.

    I took pictures of the rear or bottom panels to get the manufacturers compliance labeling information.

    The first picture is of Everlast's unit. The compliance labeling is factory painted onto the rear of the unit.

    The second picture is of Longevity's unit. The compliance labeling is a printed silver label.

    The third picture is of Hypertherm's unit. The compliance labeling is clear coated printed label.

    Looking at the labels of both Everlast and Hypertherm it is clear both meet the ANSI
    and IEC 60974.1 standards with Hypertherm also meeting CSA standards. On the Longevity label the ANSI & IEC compliance standard labeling is missing.

    Looking again at the labels we see Everlast meets IP21S, Longevity meets IP21, and Hypertherm meets IP23CS.

    Looking further we see Everlast and Longevity meets class F insulation and Hypertherm meets class H.

    In addition Hypertherm further shows compliance with UL testing.

    And in conclusion only the Hypertherm unit had both the Tested and Inspected labels.
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Last edited by specter; 03-11-2009 at 11:47 PM.
    Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.& 2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma Cutter

    Sorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.

  13. #13
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    Looking forward to your results
    Last edited by 59halfstep; 03-12-2009 at 12:02 AM.

  14. #14
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    Gee I sure wish I could get the mods to delete all the posts that have nothing to do with this thread.
    Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.& 2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma Cutter

    Sorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.

  15. #15
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    Quote Originally Posted by specter View Post
    Gee I sure wish I could get the mods to delete all the posts that have nothing to do with this thread.
    The thread title is fixed, and there do not appear to be anything but some safety skeptics floating around, so we are good to go.

    To the rest of you: Let Specter do his thing, uninterrupted. First one to fly off the handle gets 30 days. So, watch, critique, question, and evaluate. But no bashing- unless something blows up. In that case, all bets are off!!!
    I think she is Bi-polar. She is a bear sometimes. Does this make her a BiPolar bear????

  16. #16
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Vs HyperthermTest

    It is not Chinese bashing. I have taken offense to the implication that I'm in some way prejudiced or racist. If anything I get myself in trouble defending minorities and I am a staunch Free Trade advocate.

    It is safety. This company does not have the basic respect for it's customers to get approvals. It is as simple as that.

    There are Chinese plasma cutters at HF that have taken the time to play by the local rules.

    So I guess I get thirty days. Why would I want to find out about stuff that is of unknown safety status.

  17. #17
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Vs HyperthermTest

    I like the fact that the Hypertherm unit actually has "TESTED" and "INSPECTED" sticker attached that are initialled and dated. It not only gives the buyer more confidence in the machine it gives the manufacturer another method of tracking QC issues should a problem be discovered once in the customers' possession.

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  18. #18
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Vs HyperthermTest

    Quote Originally Posted by duaneb55 View Post
    I like the fact that the Hypertherm unit actually has "TESTED" and "INSPECTED" sticker attached that are initialled and dated. It not only gives the buyer more confidence in the machine it gives the manufacturer another method of tracking QC issues should a problem be discovered once in the customers' possession.

    Hypertherm.
    Miller and Lincoln do something similar to this as well. In fact, I can call up Miller and get the history of any machine I own in a matter of minutes just by giving them the serial number. Any repair work they will have logged as well as the testing information when the unit was new. I just had an occasion to take advantage of this a couple of months ago. Hell, the guy even spoke English.
    Proud to be self-employed and not have to rely on ANYONE but me to make my way in this world.
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  19. #19
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Vs HyperthermTest

    Thanks for your support Rojodiablo!!
    All that I am asking is that folks give the manufacturers a chance. We all know Hypertherm has been around for over 40 years and I seriously doubt anyone has found anything wrong with their customer service or their product. The two Chinese manufacturers are just looking to enter the market place as did the other well established companies long ago.

    RancherBill I only ask that critiques be withheld till the end of the evaluation and test. Or as Rojodiablo put rather well "But no bashing- unless something blows up. In that case, all bets are off!!!" I can assure you if any of the units fail the evaluation and test it will be well documented and have photos of the disaster. And I off course will be first to complain especially if a unit blows up or catches my shop on fire. The two Chinese units are being wired with plugs to CSA standards. My shop has been inspected by both the Ft Myers Fire Department and OSHA. I have everything but a flack jacket of bomb disposal uniform.

    As Duanne and MudSpaz have said the well establish companies out there have already in place both quality control inspection and testing standards and methods. My Hypertherm PowerMax is only being used as a comparison against the other two. And you need to realize the Hypertherm PowerMax is a 45 amp unit and not a 60 amp unit as both other units are.

    I'll properly be nailed for this song but it had a good phrase in the song "All I am saying is give peace a chance"
    Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.& 2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma Cutter

    Sorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.

  20. #20

    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Test

    Quote Originally Posted by RancherBill View Post
    Aren't you taking a big chance?

    I looked at the longevity site and at the manual and at the picture of the back of the machine and I do not see any APPROVALS for North America. CE is for Europe. They are European regulations.

    It should have UL or CSA or cUL or something. TO the best of my knowledge your electrical inspectors can flip if they see it plugged in and in the case of a fire the insurance company will deny your claim for un-approved equipment.

    The sweetness of low price will be forgotten when you lose everything.

    If they want to do business in the US or Canada they should be willing to spend some money on approvals instead of putting their customers at financial risk.

    The mods should probably delete this thread and all other threads that reference this model, as it is an unsafe practice. I did not check other products but they are probably unsafe also.

    I have personaly spoken with a representitive of UL concerning this. I was informed that CE testing is acceptable for use in the USA. UL and CSA testing are not a requirement for this type of product.

    The CE testing is not quite as stringent, but is a valid test none the less. Now UL and CSA testing indeed are prefered by many consumers.

    If you have any doubts as to the validity of this statement, just call them and ask. They were very helpfull in answering my questions, and suprisingly unbiased in their statements concerning this.

    http://www.ul.com/contact.html

  21. #21
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Vs HyperthermTest

    Specter,

    Can you while you are still in you disabled state, give us lengths of measurement on torch leads, ground and torch and length of power cord?(minus the missing plug). I think that is worthy of noting. Also, if pictures of the torches are allowed...diassembled etc.

    Just trying to be fair and helpful.
    Welders:
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  22. #22
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Vs HyperthermTest

    I will try to do that. I am still waiting to go over to the salvage yard and pickup all the various metals for the performance testing.

    And thanks for the suggestion Lug.

    Tom

    addon: Thanks to darkknight for taking his time to validate those testing standards.
    Last edited by specter; 03-12-2009 at 10:08 AM.
    Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.& 2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma Cutter

    Sorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.

  23. #23
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Vs HyperthermTest

    Just a question or two... You say that one of the units didn't have a water filter / separator, was it inside the unit?

    I say that because my Miller 375's is inside. ( I had to see what they looked like on the inside, so off the cover came.. )

    I thought being a high dollar piece of equipment plugged into an air hose without an air filter was rather odd, so I bought one and stuck on it... now it's got two. Sounds like the internal one self vents after the air valve shuts off.

    I myself, am looking forward to seeing how the machines perform.

  24. #24
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Vs HyperthermTest

    Hi slamdv and thanks for your comment.

    It was the Everlast unit that did not come with a water separator/particle filter. Everlast responded to my comment of that by saying one will be added to all units once the unit is released from production and available to the market.

    The Longevity does contain a water separator/particle filter. The filter comes in a separate package with the unit and the filter has to be put together on the air hose and connected to the unit.

    The Hypertherm does have an internal water separator/particle filter. But as Jim Colt of Hypertherm as pointed out and is the standard industry practice one should not rely on those provided filters. Shops should as a minimum have the following a water separator, a particle filter, and a oil separator. In my shop I go even further to include and air dryer
    Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.& 2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma Cutter

    Sorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.

  25. #25
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    Re: EverLast VS Longevity Vs HyperthermTest

    Spector:

    At the beginning, you listed your initial impressions of the two imported machines ... packaging, what was included, plugs, consumables, manuals, etc. etc. I know this would be working off memory, but could you also list the same first impressions of your Hypertherm?

    As far as having a plug or not on the machine from the factory .... Many of the larger welding equipment comes without .... reason being, there are so many different styles of 220v connections available. Since all my engine drives have a 4-prong 14-50 receptacle on them, I have all my extension cords, shore power hookups, and welders/plasma cutters wired similarily. If anything came with a plug from the factory, it was chopped off, thrown away, and replaced with a 14-50, so as to keep everything standard.

    I don't think the existance of a plug is a big criteria, unless just by chance it is the same style as you already have your shop/garage wired with.

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