alu sailboat buliding - Page 4
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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Oslo,
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    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    a few pictures from today.

    Front machine is powerwave 450 with wirefeeder (synergic 27) and 15 meter cable. No need to move the machine. Behind, is a squarewave TIG 255. (and another 15 meter cable)

    Thank heaven for lincoln :-) Both are good machines. used previous in a professional shipping facility.

    I tackweld everything with the TIG machine and will not start the real welding until all planks are on.

    zeyang
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  2. #77
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    698

    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    That looks like a fun project.
    and a lot of time!

    you doing it on your own?
    G

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Offshore Corridor
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    440

    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    wow, the wooden frame is very impressive. how long does a project like this take to build? my uncle rebuilds boats, takes him about a year or two, but i dont think he ever built one from the ground up.
    I break things for a living...

  4. #79
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    Mar 2009
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    Oslo,
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    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    hi
    I guess around 5000 hours totally but hard to estimate until im finished.
    every plank take me 34 hours to cut and tackweld (at least sofar)
    yes, im doing it solo. That means a little more work, cause i have to move back and forward to fasten it with clamps before I tackweld.
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  5. #80
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    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    HI list.
    Does anyone have experience with lincoln powerwave 450 with synergic 27 wirefeeder? Its feeding ok, but it doesent work. I checked all connections,, and everything but still no welding. just cold feed.
    Any hints is appreciated..

    I really need to have this powerwave up and running soon. Its too much work tig-weld all these laps. I will save a tremendous lots of time turning to MIG welding..

    thanks,
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  6. #81
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    698

    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Go on. Tig it.
    it ill only take you 1 or 2 years more
    G

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Cape Ann area, MA
    Posts
    191

    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Quote Originally Posted by zeyang View Post
    HI list.
    Does anyone have experience with lincoln powerwave 450 with synergic 27 wirefeeder? Its feeding ok, but it doesent work. I checked all connections,, and everything but still no welding. just cold feed.
    Any hints is appreciated..

    I really need to have this powerwave up and running soon. Its too much work tig-weld all these laps. I will save a tremendous lots of time turning to MIG welding..

    thanks,
    Do you have a good ground?

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    N.E. oHIo
    Posts
    365

    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Quote Originally Posted by zeyang View Post

    Does anyone have experience with lincoln powerwave 450 with synergic 27 wirefeeder? Its feeding ok, but it doesent work. I checked all connections,, and everything but still no welding. just cold feed.
    Any hints is appreciated..

    I really need to have this powerwave up and running soon. Its too much work tig-weld all these laps. I will save a tremendous lots of time turning to MIG welding..

    If you don't have the Operator's Manuals for your machines, get them here:

    http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...ualsearch.aspx

    I was looking at the manual for a Synergic 7 wire feeder, and it has a Cold Feed setting...
    could you have it enabled?

    I'm enjoying your boat building project.


    Rex

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Oslo,
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    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Quote Originally Posted by rode2rouen View Post
    If you don't have the Operator's Manuals for your machines, get them here:

    http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...ualsearch.aspx

    I was looking at the manual for a Synergic 7 wire feeder, and it has a Cold Feed setting...
    could you have it enabled?

    I'm enjoying your boat building project.


    Rex
    Thanks,
    Ive been looking at synergic 7 wire feeder. It seems different from this synergic 27 (which seems coming from a lincoln plant in France) 9 page small manual.
    I do suspect the 45 feet cable between the power and feeder could be a problem.
    (even it seems all function is working except that it will not weld)
    Ill tried to get a wire diagram for this at Lincoln but no help. (it seems lincoln doesent answer if the question get a little complicated)

    anyway, thanks for you hints.

    todays picture (front): slowly welding my way down. almost halfway. the curvature in front is easy.
    back: next plank is tricky, end of the propeller aperture makes it longer and more bending force is needed to fasten. not sure how to solve yet. After this one, the rest is piece of cake. (thanks for double ender boats)
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  10. #85
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    624

    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    I think this is the most ambitious project I have seen on the message board. Good work. I wish I could do something like this.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Oslo,
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    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Quote Originally Posted by 6010 View Post
    I think this is the most ambitious project I have seen on the message board. Good work. I wish I could do something like this.

    Thanks. Its not very difficult to build alu-sailboat, only extremely timeconsuming.
    You need a very understanding wife or partner! :-)

    zeyang.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    N.E. oHIo
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    365

    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Quote Originally Posted by zeyang View Post
    Thanks,

    I do suspect the 45 feet cable between the power and feeder could be a problem.
    (even it seems all function is working except that it will not weld)

    Have you tried checking the continuity of the gun cable with a volt/ohm meter?

    Are you using a push/pull gun? 45' is a LOT of cable to be feeding Al wire through!


    Rex

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Oslo,
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    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Quote Originally Posted by rode2rouen View Post
    Have you tried checking the continuity of the gun cable with a volt/ohm meter?

    Are you using a push/pull gun? 45' is a LOT of cable to be feeding Al wire through!


    Rex
    thankfully not al-wire of 45'. :-)
    its the cable (wire,gas) between the stationary power unit and the feeder. (+ remote operating box) Since im climbing all over the hull, i need a lightweight feeder to drag with me and not the 250 pound power-unit. (the gun wire the al-wire is going is just 2-3 feet)

    zeyang.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    N.E. oHIo
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    365

    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    My bad!!
    I thought you had a 45' gun connected to the synergic27.


    Rex

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Toronto
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    175

    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    never mind
    Last edited by maarty; 08-06-2009 at 12:16 PM. Reason: not relevant

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Toronto
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    175

    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Nice pictures. It looks good so far. Aluminum is somewhat toxic; I hope you are taking precautions.
    You might want to look up "English wheel". It can be used to create shapes and curves.
    I heard about this, but can't vouch for it: blacken the aluminum with acetylene soot; heat it until the soot disappears, then hammer it to shape with a autobody hammer and dolly.

    I had very good results once with a heavy duty 3 pin set of rollers, about 3 feet wide. I don't know where you can find one; maybe google will know.

    34 hours per plank is too long. Buy a large roll of thick corrugated cardboard. Make cardboard templates right on the jig. Transfer them to the alum' plate. Cut with plasma. Tack. You should be able to do each plank in 6 hours max. Be less fussy with the appearance bellow the water line, and more perfectionist with those above.
    I would be surprised if it took you more than 6 weeks to fit up the entire hull; the deck will take longer (usually more complex)

    The jig looks really good, by the way.
    Last edited by maarty; 08-06-2009 at 12:37 PM.

  17. #92
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    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Picture: the curvature is getting visible.

    I did some test of speed. (plank 5 took me 31.5 hours)
    Cutting plank (both side) is 5-6 hours
    Fitting out and welding is rest of time.
    Plank 6 is the most diffiult ones.
    then plank 7-15 is very easy .
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  18. #93
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    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Quote Originally Posted by maarty View Post
    Nice pictures. It looks good so far. Aluminum is somewhat toxic; I hope you are taking precautions.
    You might want to look up "English wheel". It can be used to create shapes and curves.
    I heard about this, but can't vouch for it: blacken the aluminum with acetylene soot; heat it until the soot disappears, then hammer it to shape with a autobody hammer and dolly.

    I had very good results once with a heavy duty 3 pin set of rollers, about 3 feet wide. I don't know where you can find one; maybe google will know.

    34 hours per plank is too long. Buy a large roll of thick corrugated cardboard. Make cardboard templates right on the jig. Transfer them to the alum' plate. Cut with plasma. Tack. You should be able to do each plank in 6 hours max. Be less fussy with the appearance bellow the water line, and more perfectionist with those above.
    I would be surprised if it took you more than 6 weeks to fit up the entire hull; the deck will take longer (usually more complex)

    The jig looks really good, by the way.
    I didnt think about aluminium as toxic but it seems to be. The alu-dust is everywhere so from now on, i will use a mask when cutting.
    Will for sure scrap the idea of making the watertanks in aluminium.

  19. #94
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    Mar 2009
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    Oslo,
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    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    regarding cutting of aluminium.
    Im using ordinary woodworking tools for cutting. Its pretty fast. I dont have plasma or waterjet.
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  20. #95
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    Jul 2009
    Location
    Toronto
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    175

    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    I notice that you have a direct drive circular saw. A worm-drive saw will give you more torque, faster cutting, and longer saw life in the long run. Milwaukee makes a really good one.
    About precautions with fumes; a blower at the top of the tent blowing out, and a blower at the bottom blowing in might help. MSA makes a great line of cartridge respirators: I use nothing less.
    Don't be afraid to use a come-along. Wedges with L shaped dogs will help force the metal to where you want it. A little heat will coax things into place too.

  21. #96
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    Jul 2009
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    35

    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Man what a project!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

  22. #97
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    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Please keep posting pics as you go.

  23. #98
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    Mar 2009
    Location
    Oslo,
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    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Quote Originally Posted by maarty View Post
    Nice pictures. It looks good so far. Aluminum is somewhat toxic; I hope you are taking precautions.
    You might want to look up "English wheel". It can be used to create shapes and curves.
    I heard about this, but can't vouch for it: blacken the aluminum with acetylene soot; heat it until the soot disappears, then hammer it to shape with a autobody hammer and dolly.

    I had very good results once with a heavy duty 3 pin set of rollers, about 3 feet wide. I don't know where you can find one; maybe google will know.

    34 hours per plank is too long. Buy a large roll of thick corrugated cardboard. Make cardboard templates right on the jig. Transfer them to the alum' plate. Cut with plasma. Tack. You should be able to do each plank in 6 hours max. Be less fussy with the appearance bellow the water line, and more perfectionist with those above.
    I would be surprised if it took you more than 6 weeks to fit up the entire hull; the deck will take longer (usually more complex)

    The jig looks really good, by the way.

    Not exactly about welding but about jig making

    1. I start with the original boat-drawing and make a small boat-model to check for accuracy. (1:15). maybe not necessary to do this step but gives a good visible feeling of the hull.

    2. Then i scale it up on the floor in size 1:1 and start to make wood frames (this is called lofting in maritime language) basically i draw all the lines from the drawing on the floor with a pencil and plastic (as overlay) and battens to trace this onto the wooden planks.

    3. Erect all frames with distance of 60 cm each. Totally 18 frames, but it could be possible to use only half of this to keep the shape of the boat but good to have as many as possible to fasten clamps when planking.

    The lofting process took me around 200-300 hours. As a beginner i did a few mistakes and a experiended lofting person could probably done the same in half the time or even faster.
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  24. #99
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    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    I have done lofting before, so I am very impressed with your effort and accomplishment; I don't see any soft or hard spots on the jig -- well done! I bet you even worked from center with the sections !
    I wish I was there to help you; there is a lot I could say to help, but don't want to give the advice if you don't want it (you might not need it, but it does seem that some tasks are taking too long).
    I notice the world map on the wall, and see you like to think big. I bet your head is filled with dreams of where your boat will take you. I too am a sailor.
    What is the displacement, beam and draft?
    Where are you?
    Please keep posting pics.
    Last edited by maarty; 08-07-2009 at 11:48 AM.

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Oslo,
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    Re: alu sailboat buliding

    Quote Originally Posted by maarty View Post
    I have done lofting before, so I am very impressed with your effort and accomplishment; I don't see any soft or hard spots on the jig -- well done! I bet you even worked from center with the sections !
    I wish I was there to help you; there is a lot I could say to help, but don't want to give the advice if you don't want it (you might not need it, but it does seem that some tasks are taking too long).
    I notice the world map on the wall, and see you like to think big. I bet your head is filled with dreams of where your boat will take you. I too am a sailor.
    What is the displacement, beam and draft?
    Where are you?
    Please keep posting pics.

    Displacement should be around 20 tons. All ballast (lead ingots) will be inside the box-keel.
    Draft is 1.7 meter ( i hope) :-)
    and beam is 4.20 meter
    Length: 12 meter

    Yes, very beamy compared to length, but this is a classic old double ender. They were constructed like this in 1906-1907 :-)

    Ahh, here is a picture of interior from the same year. Classy! I espcially like the wood-stove :-)
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