AC 225 Good deal?
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  1. #1
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    AC 225 Good deal?

    I found a Lincoln AC 225 on CL near my hometown. I emailed the guy a few days after he had listed it and he still had it. Offered him $150 cash for it. Got a picture and it looks good. I have to get a pic host and will try to post the pic he sent me of it.

    Did I get a good deal? Everything in the pic is supposed to come with it. (sticks, hood, machine and leads)

    As soon as I get it and get some time to play with it, I'll put some pics up of my first welding work in a while.

    Thanks!
    Murphy's Law: When something has been made idiot-proof, someone will invent a better idiot. -MAC702

  2. #2
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    yes. Not the best deal out there, but reasonable.

    $50-150 is the low average for one of these. If your getting the hood & stix too, then it's a good deal. They sell new at Home Depot for about $280-295 regular priced.
    Mark
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  3. #3
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?



    Hopefully there is a picture above this post.

    This is the picture he sent me of the welder itself and what is coming with it.
    Last edited by chaz3882; 05-20-2009 at 10:26 AM.
    Murphy's Law: When something has been made idiot-proof, someone will invent a better idiot. -MAC702

  4. #4
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Whoo…shiny …Grab a box of 7018-AC rod and have some fun...(easy rod)

  5. #5
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Doesn't look like it's been used much. $150? And close by?

    I'd snag it if it were here.
    Mark
    I haven't always been a nurse........
    Craftsman 12"x36" Lathe
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    Century 230 Amp A/C stick welder
    Add a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG
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  6. #6
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Excellent deal. Around 400 at any welding supply. Dunno what the big box dealers sell it for.

    A good reliable machine. Used one for many years, and still own a newer AC/DC version of the machine.
    "Any day above ground is a good day"

  7. #7
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBall2 View Post
    Doesn't look like it's been used much. $150? And close by?

    I'd snag it if it were here.

    I am getting it. Spoke with him last night, he is going out of town tomorrow and will be gone for the week. When he gets back in town we will get together for me to get it from him.

    I am going to probably only have to go 80 miles round trip to get it.

    The same welder at the local Lowe's sells for $275.

    I am stoked about getting it! Can't wait to get it and start building a new bumper for my truck.
    Murphy's Law: When something has been made idiot-proof, someone will invent a better idiot. -MAC702

  8. #8
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    If they are still as good as they were in 1968 that's a heck of a good price. They were around $90.00 then LOL. My dad bought one when I was about 11 I/We used it/abused it far beyond it's duty cycle rating for years. Certain brands of DC 7018 rods would even run on it. At that time there wasn't 7018AC rods.

    My father passed away a few years back, sold his house. The old 225 was still sitting there & I wondered if it still worked. I flipped it on, No fan, but I could hear the transformer hum. I dug around & found some very damp rods & a chunk of scrap. Even though the insulation on the welding leads was literally falling off in my hands it still welded fine.

    The fella I sold the house to pulled the case cleaned up the fan motor & lubricated it. installed new leads & is still using it today. 41 years later.

    You should be able to do a really nice job with AC 7018 or 6013 rod on that bumper. The 6013 starts an arc almost automatically but isn't as strong as 7018.
    IF IT WORKS, DON'T FIX IT

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  9. #9
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by millman52 View Post
    You should be able to do a really nice job with AC 7018 or 6013 rod on that bumper. The 6013 starts an arc almost automatically but isn't as strong as 7018.
    I was looking at rod today while I was at Menards. Looks like a 5lb pack is going to run between $5 and $10 depending on what rod it actually is. I will look for some 7018 to use on the bumper.


    Now, how about another question about this bumper I am going to build.

    In the case of using a MIG, I would tack the plates in several places and then make small length welds to avoid warping and distribute the heat. Should I still do the same thing while using an Arc welder?

    Thanks for all the help!
    Murphy's Law: When something has been made idiot-proof, someone will invent a better idiot. -MAC702

  10. #10
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Hey man........ A real quick word about 6013

    These are some tacks on 3/8 plate. No penetration, and the tacks failed almost immediately under load.

    6013 can be ok with long redundant welds, but it's not real good where real strength is required in short weld situations. 6011, or 7018AC are your best bet with the machine your figurin' on buying.
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  11. #11
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    I really appreciate the heads up on the failed tacks.

    Is tacking and then doing several shorter welds the right way to handle this project as well? Presume probably burn a rod and then move to another location on the bumper to prevent too much heat build up in one area?

    Again, thank you for the help!
    Murphy's Law: When something has been made idiot-proof, someone will invent a better idiot. -MAC702

  12. #12
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Remove the rust first, & Tacks aren't supposed to hold a load I stated 6013 isn't as strong as 7018. 6011 has the same tensile strength as 6013 but is designed to work in less than ideal (rusty,dirty) conditions.

    If we are talking a pick up truck bumper here...... I can weld a bumper up with 6013 that will either shear off the bolts holding it on or destroy the truck frame it's attached to.

    My choice would be the 7018AC rods. Chaz didn't mention his skill level & since he was asking questions about a basic stick machine & stick procedures I was assuming he is a novice at it. (Chaz If I mis-understood your skills I'll be the first to apologise)

    I mentioned the 6013 for the simple reason you don't have to pound, scratch & drag around with the rod tip to get your arc. You touch 6013 to CLEAN metal & it practically will weld by itself.

    This being what I took to be a first stick welding project I was attempting to keep Chaz's frustration level to a minimum. 7018, although an excellent rod....... For a beginner at stick welding isn't the easiest to use.

    As far as keeping warpage down. Yes Chaz you will tack up normally & weld pretty much the same as using MIG.
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  13. #13
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    I suppose I should have clarified what I meant by load. A simple placement of the thing to be welded, with a test lift. The welds broke immediately Same tacks with 7018 did not break..

    While I agree that clean is good, if you look at most recommended procedures for stick welding, the cleaning amounts to wire brushing to remove loose rust. The flux coating is there for a reason. It does counteract impurities in the base metal.
    "Any day above ground is a good day"

  14. #14
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    The rust you're seeing in the cavity where the weld seperated is from dew sitting on the metal over a few nights
    "Any day above ground is a good day"

  15. #15
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by millman52 View Post
    Remove the rust first, & Tacks aren't supposed to hold a load I stated 6013 isn't as strong as 7018. 6011 has the same tensile strength as 6013 but is designed to work in less than ideal (rusty,dirty) conditions.

    If we are talking a pick up truck bumper here...... I can weld a bumper up with 6013 that will either shear off the bolts holding it on or destroy the truck frame it's attached to.

    My choice would be the 7018AC rods. Chaz didn't mention his skill level & since he was asking questions about a basic stick machine & stick procedures I was assuming he is a novice at it. (Chaz If I mis-understood your skills I'll be the first to apologise)

    I mentioned the 6013 for the simple reason you don't have to pound, scratch & drag around with the rod tip to get your arc. You touch 6013 to CLEAN metal & it practically will weld by itself.

    This being what I took to be a first stick welding project I was attempting to keep Chaz's frustration level to a minimum. 7018, although an excellent rod....... For a beginner at stick welding isn't the easiest to use.

    As far as keeping warpage down. Yes Chaz you will tack up normally & weld pretty much the same as using MIG.
    Please, no need for apology in assumption of my welding skill. I will take no offense for all the help that is offered. I have not Arc welded since high school, about 10 years, however, last time I did, I was able to fill a 3" hole back in. Slowly build the material back in, no real need IMO, but it was something that our teacher challenged us to do.

    I have not used a MIG in about 2 years. And when I was using it, it was a little 110V buzz box running flux core.

    Again, I greatly appreciate all the help that everyone is offering, I will certainly do some practice to get comfortable again before beginning on the bumper.
    Murphy's Law: When something has been made idiot-proof, someone will invent a better idiot. -MAC702

  16. #16
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Forgot to reply to this when I got the welder last weekend. Brought it home and it is cherry! The guy only burnt about 5 sticks with it.

    Going to verify my generator can handle the necessary input for it. I didn't realize these things want 50A input. My dryer isn't even running on that much juice. WOW!

    Will post up some pics after I get to burn a few rods with it.
    Murphy's Law: When something has been made idiot-proof, someone will invent a better idiot. -MAC702

  17. #17
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by chaz3882 View Post
    Forgot to reply to this when I got the welder last weekend. Brought it home and it is cherry! The guy only burnt about 5 sticks with it.

    Going to verify my generator can handle the necessary input for it. I didn't realize these things want 50A input. My dryer isn't even running on that much juice. WOW!

    Will post up some pics after I get to burn a few rods with it.
    It will take a 10,000 W continued duty generator to squeak by. Typical clothes dryer is on 10 Ga wire & 30A breaker. If your run is any distance you need #4 wire & a 60A breaker to run the 225 at max capacity.
    IF IT WORKS, DON'T FIX IT

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  18. #18
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Millman, I greatly appreciate the heads up. That is liable to slow my progress on using the welder, but at least I finally have it.

    Not sure what the wattage rating on my generator is. It is an extremely old Honda generator and is pretty healthy, but I am almost positive it doesn't have a 10kW continuous rating.
    Murphy's Law: When something has been made idiot-proof, someone will invent a better idiot. -MAC702

  19. #19
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by millman52 View Post
    It will take a 10,000 W continued duty generator to squeak by. Typical clothes dryer is on 10 Ga wire & 30A breaker. If your run is any distance you need #4 wire & a 60A breaker to run the 225 at max capacity.
    This is an interesting comment to me. I'm not an electrician, but #4 wire seems like massive overkill to me. I don't have a Lincoln 225, but I thought they have a duty cycle of 20%. Even if they had a 100% duty cycle #6 wire is rated at 55 amps (at least according to the chart at Home Depot). It is my understanding that these units pull 45.5 amps at full load so #6 wire should be sufficient to carry the entire load. And at 20% duty cycle there is no way that wire is going to get overheated.

    Additionally it also seems to me that a 50 amp breaker is better suited for the dedicated circuit than a 60.

    Thoughts????

    -Jeff

  20. #20
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    I'm no electrician either

    I HATE ELECTRICAL STUFF

    I made a 50' drop with AWG6, and haven't had any trouble. I later found out that I could have used a size smaller because of the limited duty cycle on my machine.

    Far as a breaker goes, I figure if the machine calls for a 50amp breaker, it might be a good idea to use one that size. Larger breaker takes longer to heat up and trip I think. The breaker is supposed to protect everything downstream from it.

    I tend to exceed the duty cycle, and I've never had trouble with the setup I'm running now.

    I did, however, have trouble with a 30amp breaker I used for a while to run the same machine. It would trip when the welder got hot, or if it was a hot day and I was using the welder a lot.

    It's a good idea to read the panel on the machine or the OM, and stick with what they reccomend. They know a darn sight more than I do
    "Any day above ground is a good day"

  21. #21
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by mithrandir View Post
    This is an interesting comment to me. I'm not an electrician, but #4 wire seems like massive overkill to me. I don't have a Lincoln 225, but I thought they have a duty cycle of 20%. Even if they had a 100% duty cycle #6 wire is rated at 55 amps (at least according to the chart at Home Depot). It is my understanding that these units pull 45.5 amps at full load so #6 wire should be sufficient to carry the entire load. And at 20% duty cycle there is no way that wire is going to get overheated.

    Additionally it also seems to me that a 50 amp breaker is better suited for the dedicated circuit than a 60.

    Thoughts????

    -Jeff
    You are correct about #6 wire & 50A breaker being enough. It's habbit of mine to overwire in case of future upgrade . The breaker isn't really to protect "everything" down stream. The breaker is to protect the wire running through your walls or wherever & the end receptical from overheat/overload & starting a fire.

    You can't take the duty cycle in concideration for sizing your circuit. You have to wire for 100% to be safe.

    As Farmersamm says you can "GET BY" with even less & in most cases with 20%duty cycle not have a problem, If you abide by that rule (weld only 12 min of every hour).

    I for one never followed, not even close, the 20%. I don't know what the duty cycle is @ 125A but I'm sure I have by far outdone that even if it's 40%.

    I once lined a 450 JD dozer blade using 1/8" 7018 & go at it for several hours stopping only to change rods & get a drink of water once in a while. Those 225 Lincolns used to be as tough as a pine knot & would tolerate lots of abuse. I imagine they are no different today.

    I was offering advice with a bit of extra safety & expansion factor built in. Just in case a small 220V air compressor comes along. Then there isn't another complete circuit to run.
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  22. #22
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    See.... proves I'm no kind of electrician. I always figured the the breaker protected the equipment. I never considered the wiring.

    I HATE ELECTRICAL STUFF

    Do not, I repeat Do not let me near your breaker box
    "Any day above ground is a good day"

  23. #23
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    LOL Samm, I'm not an electrician either. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

    I've had to muddle through electrical problems to keep my shop running for years. At one point I did buy a copy of The National Electrical Code Handbook (NEC) at a flea market for $5.00. It's about the size of a Sears Roebuck catalog. Most of it is way over my head.

    Probably the most handy book on electricity is Ugly's Electrical References http://cgi.ebay.com/Uglys-Electrical...3A1%7C294%3A50 Under $15.00 any day of the week on ebay It's just enough to big to fit in your shirt pocket & will have most anything in it the home shop guy will need.

    Take a look at the attached photo. You might even want to save it on your computer & open it with windows picture viewer & blow it up larger for ease of reading. Note that there are temperature variables etc.

    Find the #6 wire (copper) on the left page & look at the amp ratings for the different types multiple conductor sheathed wire. You'll see that depending on the insulation & how they are "bundled" together #6 wire can carry 55,65,or 75A.

    Now look at the same #6 Cu wire on the right page. Again there are different insulation classes. The right chart is for single strand "open air" (hanging overhead) (better cooling). The #6 can carry 80,95, or 105A

    Now these amp ratings are only good to 86 deg F.

    For your wire "I made a 50' drop with AWG6, and haven't had any trouble". I'm not for a second doubting your word here. I know & understand it will work under light-light/medium usage I guessing your wire is common "romex" #6 good for 55A just like the wall chart at Home Depot states. That rating is only good if the ambient air temp never goes above 86 deg F. Raise the temp to 96 deg F this same #6 wire is only good to 45.1A. at 105 deg. F Amperag drops to 39.05A.

    The catch 22 here is. If the wire can't carry the amperage your equipment demands, you also have voltage drop. In return your duty cycle will drop because the transformer in the welder will heat quicker.

    I hope this helps someone in some small way. I have unfortunately learned many of these lessons the hard way....... OOPs time for a redo as that last idea just went up in flames
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  24. #24
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Millman52,

    Thanks for posting that. That's way cool. I love learning new stuff :-)

    -Jeff

  25. #25
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    Re: AC 225 Good deal?

    Millman52,

    That NEC book is awesome! When I was in college, the year I took that class, we had brand new NEC books. They are huge!

    I would love to get a hold of a brand new one, but they are very salty. I think somewhere in the $400 range new. You can however acquire them on CD as well.
    Murphy's Law: When something has been made idiot-proof, someone will invent a better idiot. -MAC702

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