Millermatic 35
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Thread: Millermatic 35

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Puyallup, WA
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    11

    Millermatic 35

    I recently aquired a Millermatic 35 (serial number HG043835). It doesn't feed wire when turned on and the trigger is pulled. I've downloaded the manual and gone throught he troubleshooting steps. I've also completed trouble shooting steps from posts I found on this site. I'm pretty confident CR1 is bad and the rest of the machine is functioning.

    The welder has the old open style CR1 and I can't seem to find a replacement model or kit that shows the conversion to a new closed sytle relay. Any information or suggestions would be appreciated.

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    Thanks,
    Todd

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Indianapolis Indiana
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    I would think that contactor could be rebuilt, as long as the coil isnt broke....

    7A7 has a wonderful write up on how to rebuild the Maxtron 450 contactor.
    Miller Dynasty 200DX
    Miller Spectrum 250D
    Miller Millermatic 200
    Bunch of old blue dinosaurs....

  3. #3
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    Nov 2013
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    Puyallup, WA
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    I like that idea. How do you test if the coil is still good?

  4. #4
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    Oct 2010
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    Indianapolis Indiana
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    782

    Re: Millermatic 35

    Should show resistance through the coil and not an open circuit (infinity).....

    I think.
    Miller Dynasty 200DX
    Miller Spectrum 250D
    Miller Millermatic 200
    Bunch of old blue dinosaurs....

  5. #5
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    Nov 2013
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    Puyallup, WA
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    I checked and it has resistance. I'm searching the form for how to rebuild the contractor but haven't found it yet. Any ideas where I might find it?
    Thanks,
    Todd

  6. #6
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    Lansing, MI
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    Try this.

    http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php...ors&highlight=

    Not quite the same, but same principle..

    Should get you in the ballpark. That relay doesn't come apart like this tho.
    Specializing In The Repair And Restoration
    Of Miller Maxtron 450 Inverters


    DynaSteve

  7. #7
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    Nov 2013
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    Puyallup, WA
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    Thanks for the link! I'll take it apart and see how it goes. I'm sure there will be more to come in the next few days...

  8. #8
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    The best way to test power to coil is to use a good multimeter & put it across the two leads going to the coil as the trigger is pressed. I'm guessing they're 24 VAC. When you depress the trigger on the gun, it should complete the circuit causing the contactor to close. You should be getting voltage to the coil. If not, the trigger circuit isn't closing properly.

    How is the gun set up on your machine? The old style used a mechanical gas valve & created the contactor circuit off the body of the gun itself & the control wire leading to the contactor coil. You will want to check the trigger of the gun if it hasn't been converted to a newer style & make sure the circuit is getting continuity. The wires connect at a small round unit with two male spade connectors inside it right below the drive wheels. You can shunt these two points together & the contactor should close.

    The last one of these I worked on, I put a Tweco gun on it & set the wiring up thru that point, being operated by the trigger. Does your machine have a gas solenoid? If not, you can also install one that's 24 VAC & piggyback it to operate off the coil control wires going to the contactor. I wish I had pics, it's kinda hard to explain it without them.

    Check the contactor closure circuit. If the gun trigger isn't making good contact, or the wires leading to the switch are broken, you won't get any power to the drive motor, etc. A quick connection of that circuit via the spade connectors will let you know if you're getting power
    Specializing In The Repair And Restoration
    Of Miller Maxtron 450 Inverters


    DynaSteve

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Ceres, California
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    2,438

    Re: Millermatic 35

    You can order 122696 kit from miller or 109006 relay from miller. Adapt the wiring your self.
    The 122696 kit come with jumper wires, insulation, adapter plate. The thing to watch out for is. The wiring is different to the new relay. On the plastic box relay the top contacts are to normally closed. On the open frame they are the normally open. The moving contacts move in the opposite direction.

  10. #10
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    Unless it has been updated to a "current" design, your MM35 may use the gun weld output lead as part of the trigger circuit so I would suggest unplugging the trigger leads from the 2-pin receptacle behind the side door and jumper the receptacle to see if the unit functions. If it does, you have a gun issue.
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  11. #11
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    Nov 2013
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    Puyallup, WA
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    I tried jumping it and no luck. I can see CR1 moving when I jumped it and when the trigger on the gun is pressed so I'm thinking that's the root of the problem.

    I'm going to try the other tests tonight. I'm guessing I have the original gun but I'm not sure (pics below). I don't see any gas but I haven't pulled the gun apart so maybe I missed it.

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    Thanks for all the help!!!
    Todd
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  12. #12
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    Nov 2013
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    Puyallup, WA
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    Cleaned contacts on CR1 and now the contractor closes when the trigger is pulled. Took apart the contractor and cleaned the contacts and have power to the bottom side of it. wire feed and welder still not functioning so back to the trouble shooting section...

  13. #13
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    Mar 2010
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    Ceres, California
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    To get wire drive . you need to see a couple of things. First you need weld voltage at the gun. Second Circuit breaker #1 needs to be closed. This will apply power to a small bridge diode thgat supplies the DC power to the motor. Power to the motor is controlled be the setting of the yellow jacks and the speed control rheostat. Rheostat can be cleaned. Next check for a jumper plug up near the space above the rheostat. Your might not have it, It is for the spot weld timer pcb.
    If you have this plug make sure the contact are clean and tight. The cr1 relay has two sides. One side is for the motor and the other is just the contactor control.
    Depending on age of welder, the older ones had motors with fields and the newer one have
    magnets. CB2 is in the field control. If I had the first part of the serial number I could look at the right diagram . Looks like you have the miller gun that came with the welder.
    Should be able to get a gas valve and gun adapter and use a newer miggun.
    If you have the gun I think you have, the gas valve is in the handle on the gun.

  14. #14
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    It's a mechanical valve in the gun.

    The one I converted was exactly like it.
    Specializing In The Repair And Restoration
    Of Miller Maxtron 450 Inverters


    DynaSteve

  15. #15
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    As ccawgc has pointed out, circuit breakers CB1 and CB2 need to be closed and passing current in order for the motor to work as well as having weld output voltage between the work clamp and transformer tap outlets.

    Other things to check are both bridge rectifiers SR2 and SR3, motor field windings (brown and white wires) on wires #33 and #34 and if there is motor drive voltage at the black and red motor leads (wires #47 and #48 respectively) when CR1 is activated.
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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Puyallup, WA
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    First I'd like to thank everyone for the input and help! I did some more testing. I have power on both sides of CB1 and CB2. I checked wires 33 and 34 and they have power. I checked 47 and 48 with CR1 engaged and nothing. I'm thinking this means SR3 is bad. Correct?

    I pulled apart the gun and I have power. Not sure what else to check here. CR1 engages when I press the trigger as well.

    What would you guys check next?
    Thanks,
    Todd

  17. #17
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    Re: Millermatic 35

    If we're both looking at the same diagram, #47 & 48 receive DC power thru SR2, CR1 and WFS rheostat R1. However, SR2 receives AC power from the main contactor W so you need to check for power thru the main contactor first. Do you have OCV between the gun tip and work clamp? If yes, main contactor W is OK.

    Potential failure points are:
    1) Main contactor W contacts bad
    2) Bridge rectifier SR2 failed
    3) CR1 contacts for wires# 50 & 47 bad
    4) CR1 contacts for motor braking wires# 47 & 53 stuck closed (arc welded)
    5) WFS rheostat R1 failed
    Last edited by duaneb55; 11-07-2013 at 10:59 AM.
    MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus - LP/NG
    MUTT Suitcase Wirefeeder
    WC-1S/Spoolmatic 1
    HF-251D-1
    PakMaster 100XL
    SA-200 Blackface Code# 8638
    Star Jet 21-110

    Two term limit - one in office, one in jail.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Puyallup, WA
    Posts
    11

    Re: Millermatic 35

    Contact on wire 50 wasn't working. All fixed! Thanks for the help!!!


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